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View Full Version : how to win P-51 vs Me-262



Zneg1
01-12-2005, 03:18 PM
Ok last night I was on greatergreen with a night map that had Me-262's on the blue side and B-25, Spits,P-47's and Mustangs on the red side. I would only manage to do 530 speed while those things pulls away from me on a dive! It is really a testament to needing to know defelection shooting at high speed. So anybody know how to counter this threat? The only thing I found is to follow them back to base and hit them also when they try to take off just like they way they did it in WWII. Direct engagement is almost impossible specially at night even tiht the smoke trails visisble, it was hard to follow since they are so fast.

berg417448
01-12-2005, 03:25 PM
long range shooting or hope he makes a mistake and tries to turn with you.

Real world example of having to resort to long range shooting:


"The Me. 262s leveled out after the attack, but one of them peeled off to see about a bomber which was losing height. I increased revs, and boost, and approached the Me 262 from above his tail at 500 m.p.h. My Mustang quivered in her all-out effort and the engine was whining away at top pitch. I was not more than 1,000 yards away but couldn€t gain any more. Jets must be faster than props, but I boosted once again and got a little closer. During the chase my Mustang shook so violently that the seat mounts literally snapped scaring me to hell. Finally I gave the Jerry a trial squirt. Seemed all right; just a little correction and I gave him a longish burst, then another and that seemed to have some effect. The Me. slowed up, I gave him a third dose and that certainly did the trick. I saw a flash and the Me. broke into two. The engines fell away from the fuselage, which went into a spin. The Jerry jumped out and his chute began to open up but almost immediately the fabric burst into flames. No need to follow the debris of the Messerschmitt or the Jerry to earth, so I climbed back and reported. The bombers were still steadily crawling homewards, and we resumed our positions along their flanks, weaving about along the line like sheep-dogs guarding their flock.'"

nickdanger3
01-12-2005, 03:34 PM
I was in there too zneg and I was fairly hopeless in a spit vs. the 262's. when i realized what we were up against i was thinking that staying low and weaving with a teammate might be the trick.

Clan_Graham
01-12-2005, 03:35 PM
Just ask Chuck Yeager.

berg417448
01-12-2005, 03:36 PM
Kozhedub on La-7 vs. Me-262

AH: What were the circumstances of your success over the Me-262?

Kozhedub: €œOn February 19, 1945, 1 was on a lone-wolf operation together with Dmitry Titorenko to the north of Frankfurt. I noticed a plane at an altitude of 350 meters (2,170 feet). It was flying along the Oder at a speed that was marginal for my plane. I made a quick about-face and started pursuing it at full throttle, coming down so as to approach it from under the "belly." My wingman opened fire, and the Me-262 (which was a jet, as I had already realized) began turning left, over to my side, losing speed in the process. That was the end of it. I would never have overtaken it if it had flown in a straight line. The main thing was to attack enemy planes during turns, ascents or descents, and not to lose precious seconds.€

RAF74_Buzzsaw
01-12-2005, 03:55 PM
Salute

The problem with the GreaterGreen server, was that there were narly 50% Me262's, when in reality, maybe 1% of the German aircraft in '45 were Jets.

Rarely did the Jets fly in formations greater than two. And rarely were more than two in the air in the same area at the same time.

Zneg1
01-12-2005, 03:58 PM
Well thanks guys...I actually have it recorded as a track. It was crazy!! I knew that I could not get them at level flight but they were mainly doing BNZ manuevers and devastating our base! I tried both the Spit and the Mustang and it was hard. Our team only got a few of the Me-262s and those were during TNB manuevers. Surely those things are for bomber busting because they just decimate a fighter. I was on full throttle all the time whenever I was not on a dive just to catch up with these things. Yup I was doing long range deflection shooting as well to no avail. Maybe a better pilot than I would succeed more. I am inquring because that was the first time I encountered this situation online http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I was really hoping for a Mig-3 or a Yak or even a LaGG just for more speed.

AFJ_Locust
01-12-2005, 04:16 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RAF74_Buzzsaw:
Salute

The problem with the GreaterGreen server, was that there were narly 50% Me262's, when in reality, maybe 1% of the German aircraft in '45 were Jets.

Rarely did the Jets fly in formations greater than two. And rarely were more than two in the air in the same area at the same time. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


So TRUE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

xTHRUDx
01-12-2005, 04:17 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RAF74_Buzzsaw:
Salute

The problem with the GreaterGreen server, was that there were narly 50% Me262's, when in reality, maybe 1% of the German aircraft in '45 were Jets.

Rarely did the Jets fly in formations greater than two. And rarely were more than two in the air in the same area at the same time. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

we were testing base limits, Buzz. there was only supposed to be maybe 4 jets, max, on that mission. The 3.03 spwan limits don't seem to be working correctly. i had to remove the jets from that mission.

marcocomparato
01-12-2005, 08:24 PM
why man hurredly invented the heat-seeking rocket.

WUAF_Badsight
01-12-2005, 09:09 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RAF74_Buzzsaw:
The problem with the GreaterGreen server, was that there were narly 50% Me262's, when in reality, maybe 1% of the German aircraft in '45 were Jets. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
that "would" be a "problem" if it wasnt for the fact that you are not in WW2 , but in a COMPUTER GAME

the only real problem i see is that your in a Mustang

i.e. the answer to the threads title is . . . .

"you shouldnt"

in that senario , the Mustangs job is to die , & the less spent shells the better

noshens
01-12-2005, 09:27 PM
headon is a good way to level the odds with me262 when it got speed advantage. one quick burst with .50 and then quick manuever to aviod getting hit with me262 cannons could do well with setting engines on fire or killing the pilot

Zneg1
01-12-2005, 11:58 PM
The thing is IF YOU CAN. They just accelerate, climb and dive like crazy! Not much TNB last night. This is why I am asking because I want to be able to handle this situation again next time (if there is any). Finally I guess I understood why the Me-262 are banned on most servers. It surely however made me try to be a better flyer even if the P-38's,Spits and the P-51's were the only ones we had against those things.

TheGozr
01-13-2005, 03:13 AM
I think i was there too in a 262 where is the link for the track? After destroying all the AAA's of the base i had my Flaps dammaged on take off position , then i was turn fighting with some P51's on teh deck, it was fun.

Same with a map in PROWAR server with the Korean war very fun .

Zneg1
01-13-2005, 06:44 AM
Yeah you were I remember the name. Here is the link to the track:


http://members.toast.net/zeroneg1/me262night.rar (15 megs)

YUP most of us on the red side ultimately switched to the Mustangs although I had to try my hand at the Spit and Lightning first.

geetarman
01-13-2005, 12:30 PM
500mph in a Mustang? Can the in-game P-51 go that fast?!? Even in a dive?

Zyzbot
01-13-2005, 01:31 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by geetarman:
500mph in a Mustang? Can the in-game P-51 go that fast?!? Even in a dive? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yup...just got through doing it. 540mph indicated in a dive before the right elevator came off.

FA_Whisky
01-13-2005, 05:07 PM
950kmph at 1500 meters is possible without losing a thing. Very thin line though....

LeadSpitter_
01-13-2005, 05:19 PM
Dont you love how both engine fires go out instantly after lighting them up very bad.

We need some testrunways with 2-4 spawns only for 262 bases and komet bases so we can see them used more often online.

Right now in a scripted dogfight server has them the whole side uses them and seeing the me262 turn rate over the mustang and p47 is harsh 3.03 along with the more accurate 108s.

Its still fun but its rare to kill in one pass just seems to flame one engine or both and they go out and me262 is now where to be found anymore.

when i fly the 262 i fly in the centered view and just put a dot on my screen where gunsite center is. You get a hughe advantage on deflections that way, Trottle back when attack so they dont hear you from a mile away and they have allies have no chance.

In bud andersons book and a couple others they say they could catch the me262 in a dive with the p51 and p47 but the me262s always pulled away in a climb. They also say it just took a few wing flashes to set them ablaze and they bailed.

Other thing is firing the 4 108 cannons the me262 had to fire them in a 40 degree nose down dive or it would bleed off all their airspeed.

The only weakness now seems to be high alt in the me262 where it still seems dogged above 7000 8000m

TAGERT.
01-13-2005, 06:17 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Zneg1:
Ok last night I was on greatergreen with a night map that had Me-262's on the blue side and B-25, Spits,P-47's and Mustangs on the red side. I would only manage to do 530 speed while those things pulls away from me on a dive! It is really a testament to needing to know defelection shooting at high speed. So anybody know how to counter this threat? The only thing I found is to follow them back to base and hit them also when they try to take off just like they way they did it in WWII. Direct engagement is almost impossible specially at night even tiht the smoke trails visisble, it was hard to follow since they are so fast. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>There is another way.. BOUNCE.. check out the trak file called 1945.ntk that came with your game. Work in WWII too.

Zneg1
01-13-2005, 08:06 PM
I for one would like to see this fight online again and just to see if there is anything that could have been done using the Mustangs with the Me262s. I mean this did happen in real life although not to the extent it wass on real life (with so many Me262's vs allied aircraft, hell there were limited P-38s in europe anyway)so this is what this game is about with the 'what ifs' specially in light of the discussion about if the me-262 would have made a difference in the war if introduced early. In the game now you can see it takes a few hits before the me-262 engines lights up and more hits to bring them down. I have not tried the P-47s or the Spit VIII CW with them or the LaGG7 and the Yaks. it would be interesting though. If you look at the track, surely you can dcatch them on a dive but if they pull up and climb before you can hit them, you have no chance at all!