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szala11
02-08-2007, 05:24 AM
...mainly 20mm MG/151 german cannons/Shvaks on these footages? Because if they are, then either our 20mm cannon damege model is overmodelled or it was damn so weak in real life... I see the FW190-A7 attacking B-24 Liberators and B17s and the 20mm does little damage ( in my opinion )... Or are they just simple 13mm guns?
Im confused...please enlighten me. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CryY2i6Sftw

fighter_966
02-08-2007, 07:16 AM
Most of the shots are miss Imo.. but I dont agree about weakness of 20mm few years ago came
From Discovery channel a document about Attack to Schweinfurt. And there was footages of engines shot off.. Tailfin missing..huge holes in wings in B-17.. after German fighter attacks

szala11
02-08-2007, 09:53 AM
Thanks for the answer fighter_966! I asked it because i saw a film about a Bf109 using it's 20mm (i think) cannon on a B17's engine... He hit the engines many times, there were fire&flashes all the time, but the engine kept running as nothing had happened... The 109 pilot couldn't even lit one of the engines on fire... That's why i think the 20mm must have been "weaker" in real life. I know most of you are laughing now on my opinion...
If anyone could give me a link of a real-life video about what fighter_966 said as a "proof" i would be very happy...

Trigger_88
02-08-2007, 03:07 PM
I tested not too long ago to see if they were overmodeled and I found that it took very few rounds from german 20mm to bring down b-17s. The in game flashes from the 20mms exploding look like they explode bigger that in RL. My opinion is they are a little overmodeled.

flox
02-08-2007, 05:14 PM
Originally posted by szala11:
Thanks for the answer fighter_966! I asked it because i saw a film about a Bf109 using it's 20mm (i think) cannon on a B17's engine... He hit the engines many times, there were fire&flashes all the time, but the engine kept running as nothing had happened... The 109 pilot couldn't even lit one of the engines on fire... That's why i think the 20mm must have been "weaker" in real life. I know most of you are laughing now on my opinion...
If anyone could give me a link of a real-life video about what fighter_966 said as a "proof" i would be very happy...


One thing to think about is the amount of armor on a B-17, particularly around the engines if I recall correctly.

PBNA-Boosher
02-08-2007, 05:16 PM
Originally posted by Trigger_88:
I tested not too long ago to see if they were overmodeled and I found that it took very few rounds from german 20mm to bring down b-17s. The in game flashes from the 20mms exploding look like they explode bigger that in RL. My opinion is they are a little overmodeled.

Can I quote you? That's the first time I've EVER heard of the MG-151/20 being called overmodeled. There's been so much whining over the years about it being undermodeled that it's finally a relief to hear the opposite! (Though, try your hand at the ShVaK!)

Tater-SW-
02-08-2007, 05:23 PM
About 1/3 of the way in that one B-17 gets HAMMERED with 20mm. In Il-2 it would have exploded lost a wing, or caught on fire long before the end of the film where it filled the screen.

It's very hard to match the gun stuff compared to other aspects of the sim. I think that many guns are probably overmodelled, or perhaps the DMs are universally undermodelled (except for wierd planes that wn't catch fire as easily as they should like the Sally).

VW-IceFire
02-08-2007, 06:01 PM
Originally posted by szala11:
Thanks for the answer fighter_966! I asked it because i saw a film about a Bf109 using it's 20mm (i think) cannon on a B17's engine... He hit the engines many times, there were fire&flashes all the time, but the engine kept running as nothing had happened... The 109 pilot couldn't even lit one of the engines on fire... That's why i think the 20mm must have been "weaker" in real life. I know most of you are laughing now on my opinion...
If anyone could give me a link of a real-life video about what fighter_966 said as a "proof" i would be very happy...
I've seen most of the gun camera footage...its done at half speed most of the time (even when everything looks really fast). So what looks like him sitting there for ages blasting away was only a short burst really.

The footage I've seen of a FW190 shooting at a La-5 (which was breaking hard and managed to snag only a couple of hits) seems to look remarkably like what was going on in the game.

That all said...its a game...its not real life...it tries to simulate things as well as possible but you have to take that all into account. Its not perfect, just VERY good.