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View Full Version : Pearl harbor Attack and The FMB



owlwatcher
11-02-2004, 11:07 AM
Well being able to recreate this is a Dream come true for me.
So with this information;
http://plasma.nationalgeographic.com/pearlharbor/history/pearlharbor_facts.html

http://www.ww2pacific.com/aaf41.html

I begin the journy to understand what really happened. I have read so much,watched the movies and played it out. Note: This is the first game to allow the study of the individual plane routes to their targets.
For launch and recovery (IJN)I will use the game Fighting Flattops. It's Laucnh and recovery can handle all the planes.

Now let me list problems that I have encountered so far.

The Channels are to shallows to get the Nevada moving right.This has got to be addressed.

No Dry docks for the Penn.
It is really an insult to have to use Brits BBs.
This has me pissed off. Main reason their AAA is too far advanced for this early war battle.

Note The USN & IJN are the main charaters in the Pacific (PTO). Why Brit stuff .

Missing alot of the planes that were stationed at Pearl. Also mising across the board are the seaplanes on both sides.

Hate the map so far, Having Pearl in the lower right corner adds time when detailing out the air attacks at pearl.
The primary target should have be centered;lower,upper,middle do not care.Just center pearl in the middle.
Whole map makes me think no thought or knowledge of pearl and it's uses in game.
Enough whinning
Make do with what we have. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_redface.gif
Had 75 planes over Pearl so far All BBs some DD (old) and subs . Loaded Hickham and Ford started on Wheeler. All stationary. Nevada does move.

The IJN AI Plane formations. Been using 3 plane groups. Have not decided what is the best formation to use just yet. Thinking of playing around with the Kates formations. Pairs might be better.

All planes AI, Fly nice Have the mission 45 minutes out. Losing none.
Flys good at 8x over water.
When the BBs start to fire (Have not touched their AA tabs), normal down to 1/4 speed.
Got a camera over the BBs.
Watching the attack from onboard BB is something else.

This is the beginning http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

owlwatcher
11-03-2004, 10:49 AM
Wanted pictures of the air fields of pearl on or around Dec. 7.
Trying to find out where the planes are on the air fields at this time.

Tater-SW-
11-03-2004, 12:06 PM
There was a post regarding making landing craft land that might help with the Nevada.

Place your waypoint as close as you can. Then place some object at the point where you want the ship to go, but the FMB won't let you place it. Save, and open the mis file. Find the object you placed, and copy the coordinates as the next waypoint for the ship.

tater

owlwatcher
11-03-2004, 12:47 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tater-SW-:
There was a post regarding making landing craft land that might help with the Nevada.

Place your waypoint as close as you can. Then place some object at the point where you want the ship to go, but the FMB won't let you place it. Save, and open the mis file. Find the object you placed, and copy the coordinates as the next waypoint for the ship.

tater <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks for the heads up.
Saw the post
Gonna try just getting the planes in the air (IJN) at this moment.
Got 161 of the first wave in the air. Missing I think some Zero's.
Should be 189 planes to the first wave.

Sakai9745
11-03-2004, 01:44 PM
Speaking of creating stuff, is it possible to alter the direction that planes and ships are pointing in when using stationary items in FMB? One time that I tried, I couldn't get the ships parallel to the shoreline of Ford Is.

13sqGambler
11-03-2004, 02:02 PM
When you have the object selected and zoomed in enough to see it, use the Number pad to rotate the object to the desired position.

4 and 6 rotate it in large numbers, 7 and 9 I believe rotate it in small increments.

owlwatcher
11-03-2004, 02:09 PM
Yes to moving things about to what ever you want.

You need to zoom in .
Place object
Hold mouse pointer on object
Hit enter
Hold Left, right??? mouse key down and wiggle.You will get it.
Sorry do it without thought, Hope it is the right instructions

WTE_Dukayn
11-03-2004, 03:52 PM
For the very fine adjustments, you can zoom right in and hit Enter to go into the 3D mode like owlwatcher said, but to rotate the object you need to hold down the middle mouse button and move mouse left/right to rotate.

fabianfred
11-03-2004, 06:56 PM
look forward to seeing your mission when it's finished.......
wait 'til after the patch, we should get some more ships then
make it as realistic as you can as far as object placement, quantities of a/c and directions etc. goes..... don't worry if it is unplayable at the moment
once it is right then easier, smoother, more playable versions can be edited easily
and when the hardware catches up with the software we may be able to play it full bore in the not too distant future...

owlwatcher
11-04-2004, 10:28 AM
Alright Folks
Been playing around some
My 75 plane raid has sunk 2 BBs (Mayland and West Virgina)
Kates now fly in pairs Torpedo armed.
Had to change position of the BBs . Mainly done after looking at pictures.
Vals are dive bombing and hitting targets.

Note on computer performace
The Flak is really good looking at 1/4 speed.
Computer freezes and stutters some, But never stops . http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Will refind the OOB for US planes organization and post the site.

Need skins for USA planes that were at pearl.
Have not had the time to search them out.

Have two games so far.
The first wave is airborne 189 planes. Only flying over water at this time.

Still need pictures of plane depoyments at the air field. Please help.

If you come across any information or pictures please post.

B-24 is a Hickam.

owlwatcher
11-04-2004, 12:11 PM
Submerged subs (IJN) can not be placed where they poped up at.
Will not enter Pearl.

fabianfred
11-04-2004, 05:45 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by owlwatcher:
Submerged subs (IJN) can not be placed where they poped up at.
Will not enter Pearl. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

look at the thread in the Mission builder forum ref. getting landing craft to land...

you can use this method to put anything anywhere... have trains running over water etc.

I looked at the Nat geo site you gave and some of the info is quite detailed...
I have an aerial photo of ford island taken a month or two before .... shows a big seaplane base in the west corner

drop me an e-mail and I'll post it to you
never posted photos here before.... don't know how

owlwatcher
11-05-2004, 01:16 PM
fabianfred
Go to
http://photobucket.com/
You can post pictures here
then link them to your post.It's free /.

owlwatcher
11-05-2004, 02:37 PM
Wasted one day playing with the CVs and finding out how far the (IJN)planes drop from lack of fuel. Also played with the Test runways.

Notes from the experience;
Having the planes take off (CV) then to target and back land (CV)in three ways points does not work.
Seems if there is not away point near your landing the plane will land at the last way point before the landing way point.
I thought they ran out of gas ,cause that is how the plane acted AI and flown, http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif Oh well.
Will have to start from scratch on finding the ranges. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif
Now the test runways
I tried or say wanted to add a test runway on the NE side Ford island. With intentions of using it to launch the wheelless PBYs that we have available.By the way they will take off on a normal runway. Funny the Test runways have speed and Ace,vet etc choices.
Placed test runway in water. Loaded with 4 PBYs then had a ship cross over it to see what would happen.
PBYs blow up, ship rams the test runway. Ship sinks slowly. Then the Test runway pops up in the air on a slant then slowly sinks.
Seen better days http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif

fabianfred
11-05-2004, 04:54 PM
photobucket are having problems right now

can't understand why you don't have the PBY's take-off from the water?

the runways are just like carriers.... that's why they are in with the ships, and have rookie/ace etc.... all ships have those settings, even cargo ships even though they have no weapons

i believe the manual or 'readme' says you need a minimum number of waypoints for certain things to work correctly.... carrier landings, bomb/torp attacks etc.

keep at it..... looking forward to see what the patch brings....

Sakai9745
11-05-2004, 05:14 PM
Thanks guys. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

owlwatcher
11-05-2004, 06:06 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by fabianfred:
photobucket are having problems right now

can't understand why you don't have the PBY's take-off from the water?

the runways are just like carriers.... that's why they are in with the ships, and have rookie/ace etc.... all ships have those settings, even cargo ships even though they have no weapons

i believe the manual or 'readme' says you need a minimum number of waypoints for certain things to work correctly.... carrier landings, bomb/torp attacks etc.

keep at it..... looking forward to see what the patch brings.... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wanted to know if I could create seaplane bases with the test runways. The confines of pearl does present added problems. Just checking things out http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
Northeast on Ford is where some of the seaplanes were. There to close to the Ford air field to get to work on there own. Could be wrong but that is how I saw it.
In the future I hope to have a game play of the US react to the 1hour radar siting report.
It will come down to how many planes I can get airbrone is so much time.

OH, CVs in ace status gain some extra speed.
Skins for each CVs planes are available in the game .
There were 5 installed radar sites that were operational at the time of the attack.

KatanaSam
11-05-2004, 09:48 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>In the future I hope to have a game play of the US react to the 1hour radar siting report.
It will come down to how many planes I can get airbrone is so much time. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The earliest indications that an attack was in progress was actually submarine activity noticed over 4 hours before the first Japanese bombs fell. The first shots fired that morning were in fact from the US side when the Destroyer Ward sank a Japanese mini-sub. A scenario where the US is fully prepared for the attack could be considered realistic even. In truth the Japanese were **** lucky they managed to maintain any suprise.

owlwatcher
11-05-2004, 10:35 PM
The first sighting of( sub ) 3:25 .
PBY drops sky pots
Ward intercepts

Yes to these facts. The rest is history or speculation.
Both of which I would like to play out. Either side. Toss the coin to choose sides.

Radar reading

http://www.skylighters.org/radar/

http://starbulletin.com/2000/02/22/news/story3.html


played out the pearl battles in Fighting Flattops. With prepared and surpized USA.
Give the IJN 50/50 .With just alittle luck can really have great success. With such highly skilled and seasoned pilots. Luck favors the IJN.
Remenber if you start changing history, some times the out come could get worse. The one hour buildup for the attack makes a pretty good game play.
The worse is not being able to get the ships out of pearl harbor. I have not tried getting one ship threw the shallows, yet 10 or 20.
Tried a PT boat,did not work either.

Watching the Kates coming in low dropping a fish, have yet to see any out of 12 live. Manage 4-6 hits.

owlwatcher
11-11-2004, 11:54 PM
Still stuck at Pearl

Problems of sorts
BBs take 7-9 hits to sink in game
Real most sank with around five hits

Added 2 CVs to ships in Pearl
IJN would have needed more planes

Pushing 90+ planes (no fighters)
Computer is over heating and acting up
Have only lowered a few AAA setting on ships.
Unflable with this many planes. 2 CVs, 1-3 BBs,1-2 CL, 2-3 DDs are sunk with 15 or less planes left.
Setup separte missions for attacking the air fields. The timing of US planes for take off and targeting the IJN is tiresome. Fighters always seem to attack the closest target.P-40s are slow off the runways.F4Fs wingman is a pest.Zero is fun except the stalling out. Kates blowup alot.Vals like to burn.

Hoping patch brings forth some US BBs it might balance out some what better.
Still mad that the ships cannot move around pearl or in & out of. Was hoping to see what kind of battle with the US fleet chasing after the IJN.

Wish the main guns on the BBs and CLs would stop shooting at planes. Waste of CPU power.
Is there any way to get a head count on hits to a ship?

Hope fuel consumtion, separte fuel tanks are added. Out of 15 planes or so that survie attacking only about 3-6 will make a trip back.
Vals seem to suffer the most.

fabianfred
11-12-2004, 05:17 PM
that photo i mentioned is here...

http://www.navsource.org/archives/02/02.htm


my old 'pearl Harbor' mission i put out under the name 'loon' is being changed to make use of all the goodies and new 'sleep' function etc. in PF...
it was virtually unflyable before, but goes good now, with 133 a/c, 5 BB, 20+ other ships...
not all planes start at once
there was no carrier at pearl ....to the disappointment of the japanese

just waiting for the patch to finish it off before putting it out for download..

there will probably be dozens of Pearl missions out...... I don't care.... I'll try them all....
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

owlwatcher
11-12-2004, 08:47 PM
Thanks for the Photo, Been to that web site enough that I should have seen it.

Looks like I will end up with quite afew pearl missions. Have 7 different ones at the moment.

By any chance have you got the Nevada to move as it did in real life?

Had no problems of air starting planes at one time over water. Up to 190 planes can even run them at 8X speed over water.When you hit land 6x down to 1/4 speed AA.
Where I am having problems is delayed take offs .Setting ups of 16 P-40 at one base (delayed) The computer really takes ahit when they come onboard.Having 8 load at once is not to bad.Wish I could have them loaded at start but it screws up my planned attacks .
Mainly effects the fighters.

Here is a funny one. Ford,PBY take off strafing Zero, The PBY crew abandons the plane and plane continues down runway.

Tater-SW-
11-12-2004, 09:06 PM
You can have some aircraft in the air and land while the attack is inbound, if you want planes on the deck.

tater

fabianfred
11-13-2004, 04:52 AM
what's with all the P40's..... I thought IRL that only two got up and did anything.
my mission was written using the mission that 'Shadowsix' made his movie 'infamy' from.... and enlarged somewhat...
so it uses a pre-PF map, not the real Pearl one

what exactly is your problem with the Nevada.....?

owlwatcher
11-13-2004, 10:11 PM
Just tried moving a BB around ,no luck in pearl. Trying to copy Nevada movements.

Have noticed that the Prince of Wales has the least amount of AA guns mounted of all the BBs in the game.

Tully__
11-14-2004, 03:11 AM
Owlwatcher, an example of mission file editing posted in Mission Builder forum for you. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

owlwatcher
11-14-2004, 03:16 AM
Yes and thank you again http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
I was trying to avoid fooling with it.
Since now I will change to the POW as my US BBs in pearl.

fabianfred
11-30-2004, 04:24 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by owlwatcher:

Added 2 CVs to ships in Pearl
IJN would have needed more planes

Pushing 90+ planes (no fighters)
Computer is over heating and acting up
Have only lowered a few AAA setting on ships.
Unflable with this many planes. 2 CVs, 1-3 BBs,1-2 CL, 2-3 DDs are sunk with 15 or less planes left.
Setup separte missions for attacking the air fields. The timing of US planes for take off and targeting the IJN is tiresome. Fighters always seem to attack the closest target.P-40s are slow off the runways.F4Fs wingman is a pest.Zero is fun except the stalling out. Kates blowup alot.Vals like to burn.

Hoping patch brings forth some US BBs it might balance out some what better.
Still mad that the ships cannot move around pearl or in & out of. Was hoping to see what kind of battle with the US fleet chasing after the IJN.
. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

how are you getting on... haven't heard lately...

I am happy with all the alterations I've made to my old Pearl mission... just waiting for the big patch now....
i've started on a new pearl mission using the hawaii map..... big problem is that it is the largest map in PF, so it takes a lot of rescources..... wish they would make a small on-line size map just covering the islands...... not many want to fly thr real distances over ocean anyway

my mission is coming along ok... 140+ planes so far.... i'm getting more stutter with the 3.02m patch than i had with the 3.01m though...
i only have a few P40's flying
my main problem is getting the bombers to hit the ships with any accuracy.... bombed ships give off smoke whereas torpedoed ones do not....
pity there isn,t a smoke option.... see someone made an add-on for CFS with tons of extra smoke (netwings)