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VFS-214_Hawk
06-09-2007, 04:39 PM
Oleg please consider letting someone remake Ford Island the way it should be. The current is so fake! As far as that goes, all the airfields on Hawaii.

Airfield Photos (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.airfields-freeman.com/HI/FordIsland_HI_01.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.airfields-freeman.com/HI/Airfields_HI_Oahu_S.htm&h=472&w=864&sz=52&hl=en&start=3&sig2=1iMzLbwbiX45sEOdZlWCjg&um=1&tbnid=Fb8SX_nJOW7ERM:&tbnh=79&tbnw=145&ei=jCtrRpOHK4SchgTOxfT7Bg&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dford%2Bisland%26svnum%3D10%26um%3D1%2 6hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-UShttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_redface.giffficial)
http://www.airfields-freeman.com/HI/FordIs_HI_30.jpg http://www.airfields-freeman.com/HI/FordIs_HI_41.JPG

Skycat_2
06-09-2007, 04:51 PM
The real one looks fake also, so maybe the fakeness in the game is a feature, not a bug?

VFS-214_Hawk
06-09-2007, 05:26 PM
Originally posted by Skycat_2:
The real one looks fake also, so maybe the fakeness in the game is a feature, not a bug?

You can not reason with a Fool!

FritzGryphon
06-09-2007, 08:11 PM
It was perfect until you showed photos of it!

Now I don't know what to believe.

VFS-214_Hawk
06-10-2007, 07:06 AM
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f36/CurtissHawk/fordisland.jpg

R_Target
06-10-2007, 10:06 AM
Well, it can't be any worse than a Guadalcanal that looks like a Georgia-Pacific clear-cut.

VFS-214_Hawk
06-10-2007, 10:13 AM
Actually all of the PTO bases kinda suck. I just thought a year or so ago that Ford Island would have at least been a little more REALISTIC. Oleg is so strict on his aircraft development being realistic. Wish he was as strict on the fields.

GerritJ9
06-10-2007, 10:42 AM
Hawaii isn't the only PF map that leaves a lot to be desired. PF, while a good concept, was rushed and clearly too little research was done on the area's WW2 combat history, geography etc. The result shows in its maps- Singapore, New Guinea etc etc. But while generally better, there are some glaring errors/omissions on some of the Eastern Front maps as well. Strange, since one can safely assume that 1C could easily get the info needed for that theatre.

Tater-SW-
06-11-2007, 02:44 PM
The PH map would be better BLANK frankly. They seemed to have taken a "if some buildings look good, more will look better!" approach.

You could do a decent job on PH if the buildings were just removed.

zoomar
06-13-2007, 07:27 AM
I tend to agree, but I suspect ALL the historic airfields are little more than simple schematics. Me, I'd trade all that for some real US battleships to torpedo.

Daiichidoku
06-13-2007, 08:05 AM
Hawk sir, if your egoing to sapm the ORR with somethign that will never be done, and with no hope of it ever being done, as least lobby for somethign USEFUL, like a map of the slot or DEI or something http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

how much action did hawaii see after dec 41?

GerritJ9
06-13-2007, 09:21 AM
A map of the DEI would be huge- and I mean HUGE. Spread a map of the DEI (or Indonesia) over Europe and you will see just how vast this area is. Java alone, from Sunda Strait to Bali Strait, is over 1000 km. From the western tip of Sumatra to the border between Dutch New Guinea and Australian New Guinea is over 5000 km, or from Cape Finisterre on the northwestern tip of Spain to the Urals. This would, I think, be way beyond FB/PF's map engine- not to mention the vast number of hours making such a map would require. Ditto for the Philippines, another area which has been left out.

Dtools4fools
06-13-2007, 11:44 AM
From Lae to the tip of PNG is around 500km or so.

So Philippines could be done in two maps easily. One in north for early war action, one around Leyte for late war action.
Doesn't need to be one map per country, we do have several east front maps too.

Guess limit here is how time consuming it actually is to make maps.

I think a better FMB (specailly in placing the objects and editing flights) and a real Quick-mission-builder (one that creates real missions...) would help the sim immensly.
****

GerritJ9
06-14-2007, 05:21 AM
I agree that splitting the NEI or Philippines into several maps would be the only realistic option. The NEI could be split into a Borneo map, a map of East Java plus Bali, and West Java plus Southern Sumatra (including Palembang). These three would cover the areas that featured nearly all of the air war over the NEI in 1941-42.
Realistically, though, we will have to wait until the BoB-based version of PF- I doubt whether anybody with 1C's map-making software is interested in these areas. Plus, there is the "small" matter of 1C having to integrate such a map into the sim.....

Dtools4fools
06-14-2007, 09:07 AM
Indeed the (in)significance of the NEI scenario might be argument for not including it ever in a scenario.

3 maps for the limited action is a lot of work.
Philippines at least would give late and early war action, but still two maps needed.

If SoW will one day go PF again it would be step-by-step, but problem would be the many plane types needed and the many maps needed.
Burma-China would be easily 4-5 maps, Philipiines 2, Indonesia 1-3, Singpore/Malaya 1, then Papua, Guadalcanal, Rabaul.
Haven't even touched any of the Pacific islands or the homeland yet...

Fact is that PF needs a lot of resources for making maps and planes, not good for SoW where plane (and maybe map-) makig will be more time consuming than ever...

For NEI I would be happy if we would have a Singapore/Indo map, but to cover everything all the way to Batavia one would need maps with a range of 1000km.
That would acutally be great size, Philippines could be covered with one such map.
If you go around a drwa 1000km lines on Gooogle Earth it would be a great size for all theaters indeed. But...hmmm..most probalby not going to happen...

****

Hawgdog
06-14-2007, 09:52 AM
Originally posted by Daiichidoku:


how much action did hawaii see after dec 41?

My Uncle said he got laid like crazy

GerritJ9
06-14-2007, 04:41 PM
Depends on what you mean by "limited action", Dtools- Borneo, for instance, saw quite a lot of air action: bombing attacks by the ML-KNIL and MLD on Japanese invasion forces off Miri and Kuching (with the Glenn Martins being intercepted by F1M floatplanes and on some raids escorted by Brewsters), plus Japanese air raid on Pontianak (with Dutch Brewsters intercepting) in December 1941; Japanese fighter attacks on and Dutch defence of Tarakan in January 1942, with Japanese landings; Japanese invasion convoy for Balikpapan with Dutch air strikes against the shipping, and Japanese fighter and bomber strikes against the secret Dutch airfields of Singkawang II and Samarinda II, over a period of six weeks. Granted, not spectacular by Solomons standards- but certainly such a map has far more scope than Pearl Harbour or Midway which were basically one-day affairs (though, to be sure, of extremely great historical significance).
Apart from PH and Midway, there are several maps in PF now which offer much less scope than Borneo would have done.

Dtools4fools
06-15-2007, 06:35 AM
GerritJ9,

while I agree that Borneo or Indo overall saw more action compared to those 'little islands maps' and (important) one shot battles, then it is much easier to make those 'little island maps' compared to Indonesia.

Compared to other maps which require a lot of work they have a very limited time frame too. Like Singapore for example. But out of the two Singapore is far more significant.

Indo sure is one forgotten battle and I would love to fly there. Or in the Philippines. Heck, I'm happy I can fly in Singapore, Malaya, Burma and China these days!

Just don't see it resources being spend for Indo...
Hope there will be some sort of possibility that modders can create custom maps in the future otherwise this one will be a never I fear...

Now I will hop over to that relevant topic...

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

GerritJ9
06-17-2007, 02:52 AM
While a map of Java would have to be quite detailed since it was, even in 1941, quite densely populated, Borneo was another matter. Although a huge area, it was, like New Guinea, pretty much covered with dense jungle with only a few towns on or near the coast- Pontianak, Bandjermasin, Balikpapan, Kuching, Miri and a few others, for which a generic Asian town could be a stand-in (plus the occasional village on a river bank). The oil ports would have to be a bit more detailed, though. Add a few aerodromes where necessary historically and Bob's your uncle.
One could argue that, compared to the fighting around and over Borneo, Pearl Harbour was a sideshow- Japan's GOAL was seizing the American, British and Dutch Asian colonies for their resources, whereas Pearl Harbour was a MEANS to achieve that goal by eliminating the most powerful and dangerous adversary i.e. the US Pacific Fleet.
Unfortunately I have neither the required software nor the map-making skills- otherwise I would have made a Borneo map and sent it to 1C ages ago.

Dtools4fools
06-17-2007, 09:19 AM
I sure don't have the map making software either, nor am I too skilled in anything else than being a PC user, but the map design I would love to do. If there would be a useful (realtively easy) software I would probably spend more time on making maps than flying.

True enough about Borneo, same would be for Philippines, a postwar survey had 84% covered by forests (last survey in the 90ies http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif revealed only about 15-20% left http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif and the only two hardcopies of the study disappeared...).

I'm currently doing a Singpore template (non-historical as I don't have any aerials of that time) which just has to 'look good and feel all right' http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
The town looks so unasian to me...
A clone tool would be a great addition to the FMB indeed, one could copy and paste certain stuff which is time consuming to build.
Be it only planting a gazillion of trees..

*****

Korolov1986
06-17-2007, 03:26 PM
I want this area:
Rabaul (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=Rabaul&sll=-5.276948,150.402832&sspn=5.161838,7.470703&ie=UTF8&ll=-5.211306,150.534668&spn=5.16238,7.470703&t=k&z=7&om=1)

Though I'd rather have this entire area!

The slot! (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=Rabaul&sll=-5.276948,150.402832&sspn=5.161838,7.470703&ie=UTF8&t=k&om=1&ll=-7.689217,155.126953&spn=10.264338,14.941406&z=6)

Hey, if we're making outrageous requests, why not? No harm in dreaming, eh?

VFS-214_Hawk
07-01-2007, 08:00 PM
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f36/CurtissHawk/USA-P-Strategy-5.jpg

MAILMAN------
09-12-2007, 04:39 PM
Originally posted by Dtools4fools:
Indeed the (in)significance of the NEI scenario might be argument for not including it ever in a scenario.

3 maps for the limited action is a lot of work.
Philippines at least would give late and early war action, but still two maps needed.

If SoW will one day go PF again it would be step-by-step, but problem would be the many plane types needed and the many maps needed.
Burma-China would be easily 4-5 maps, Philipiines 2, Indonesia 1-3, Singpore/Malaya 1, then Papua, Guadalcanal, Rabaul.
Haven't even touched any of the Pacific islands or the homeland yet...

Fact is that PF needs a lot of resources for making maps and planes, not good for SoW where plane (and maybe map-) makig will be more time consuming than ever...

For NEI I would be happy if we would have a Singapore/Indo map, but to cover everything all the way to Batavia one would need maps with a range of 1000km.
That would acutally be great size, Philippines could be covered with one such map.
If you go around a drwa 1000km lines on Gooogle Earth it would be a great size for all theaters indeed. But...hmmm..most probalby not going to happen...

****

Well you forget the late war where the British Far East Fleet along with the USS Saratoga (Hellcats) conducted air attacks on Sabang Island oil facilities and port facilities in Northern Sumatra which included British Corsair II's from HMS ILlustrious in April '44 and later that summer with air attacks on Palembang Oil Fields. So the the area is flexible enough for the early KNIL air battles and later with the RN air battles. Makes more sense than a Betio map which had its remaining serviceable aircraft moved to the Marshalls after the USN Carrier raid of Sep '43 during which there was no aerial opposition by the JNAF.