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obliviondoll
01-06-2011, 12:46 AM
Many of us have been there, trapped in stuns by an organised team. Usually, you respawn, right? Cut your losses and try again.

Anyone have any better ideas?

What about when it happens every time?

Had a good team doing this today, and found a better way to break free. Firecrackers. They blind and break lock. If you get to where it's happening, and throw, they can't rely on charge any more, and can't co-ordinate for follow-up stuns.

Anyone else want to share counter strategies against this nasty situation?

TheF00L82
01-06-2011, 01:13 AM
Desyncing is the best way. Me and Lunatik don't Lock targets for Stuns. We actually tell people playing with us to never Lock a Pursuer during Stuns. It causes problems when one Pursuer is locked and you attempt to Stun another that isn't. It won't allow you to Stun the unlocked Pursuer.

So even if you used Crackers to erase the Locks, against groups like us, it won't work. We just keep mashing the Stun button while hovering over your downed body.

I can see how using Crackers would maybe cause some people to panic and run, but I would just keep standing over my target and then run after I got my Stun. Points baby! lol.

obliviondoll
01-06-2011, 01:19 AM
Because of the delay on re-stunning the same target, it works though - erasing the lock helps against players that use it, but the blinding is the main point.

It's REALLY hard to switch who you're stunning when you can't see them.

It doesn't guarantee a break, but it meant that (with me using firecrackers and only co-ordinating with one other player on my team) we managed to come in only about 1000 points behind, when the match before it we were about 5000 points behind after being stunlocked every time we found our targets.

TheF00L82
01-06-2011, 01:42 AM
I use a Poison class mainly, but if I'm not using it, then I do carry firecrackers. I notice that the majority of people will break and run after being blinded. Some waste a Smoke Bomb and amble around trying to get a blind Stun, only to walk into my kill zone. Others will do absolutely nothing and just sit/stand where they are until killed.

I myself have only been the victim of a stun lock once and that was before I was 50. I was also unable to desynch for half the match due to lag or the game just being stubborn.

If I'm ever FC'ed during a Stun Lock, then I will do 1 of 2 things:

1) I will stay over my targets body mashing the Stun button until I see points on my screen. Once this happens, if I'm still alive and the FC is wearing off, I'll go for another Stun before I die. If the FC isn't wearing off, I'll run towards to closest wall (I make a mental note of where my roof tops are in case of emergency lol) while deploying Smoke or Mute if available.

2) I skip all but the last part of 1 and go for the nearest wall lol.

Some times I get caught because the Pursuer is on the way to the wall or a Stun victim gets up and gets me. Other times I find myself running on or even flying off a roof top when FC finally wears off. lol.

This is if I'm in a Ranked Match and even then, I'm always playing with friends, so there's quick comments on whether to stay or run.

If I'm in a Player Match, I don't care lol. I only do Player Matches for Challenges and don't care how many points I get or if I even win lol.

obliviondoll
01-06-2011, 01:50 AM
I don't care too much about points and winning either way.

I care about fun, and being trapped by stunlocking teams is more fun when you know there's something to be done about it.

The team we were after were relying on charge and smoke to lead into their stunlocks - if you can break the cycle with crackers, it gets 1 - 2 kills, then if the survivors are still nearby, you have 4 players, and can easily mop them up.

That was what started happening by the end of that second match - then I had to go do dishes so my girlfriend would make dinner. I'm actually looking forward to testing this strategy out on other teams now.

And your plan actually proves why it'll work - If you're a really good team, you can co-ordinate to run away or stay, but you can't see, so it's hard to track and stay together, or to successfully stun the pursuers again when they're getting up. Still possible, of course, just not as easy.

Also, I'm pretty sure smoke would be a useful tool to break a stunlock, if you could time it right - probably best used when you're first walking in and know they're going to try for it.

Funny you should mention you use either crackers or poison - my usual manhunt offense build is both.

Jack-Reacher
01-06-2011, 01:59 AM
Its best to just avoid it altogether.

The most typical thing most teams do is one moron will run into the group for his confirmed templar vision kill and get stunned, and everyone seems to pile in and if the defence were good, you are get stun locked. Now there are probably ways out of this like you are looking for, but il offer some prevention tips.

First if you cant co ordinate with your team due to lack of mics or they just suck, go with this skill set, morph and smoke. What I have started to do if there are multiple defenders on a group is sneak up on them and pop both of these at the same time. The whole group will be chocking and you will identify your targets instantly, if you have long lasting you will have enough time to kill both of them and none of you will get stunned.

obliviondoll
01-06-2011, 02:04 AM
Originally posted by Jack-Reacher:
if you have long lasting you will have enough time to kill both of them and none of you will get stunned.
Not QUITE so helpful when all four are staying together, but I can see that working too.

Good advice.

I usually walked in fairly casually while at least 2 of my teammates were stunlocked, and threw crackers, then we managed to break the group up - the team always got at least 3 kills out of it once I showed up.

x3MTA3xHelviaNx
01-06-2011, 02:05 AM
Man that sucked

TheF00L82
01-06-2011, 02:21 AM
Originally posted by obliviondoll:
I don't care too much about points and winning either way.

I care about fun, and being trapped by stunlocking teams is more fun when you know there's something to be done about it.

The team we were after were relying on charge and smoke to lead into their stunlocks - if you can break the cycle with crackers, it gets 1 - 2 kills, then if the survivors are still nearby, you have 4 players, and can easily mop them up.

That was what started happening by the end of that second match - then I had to go do dishes so my girlfriend would make dinner. I'm actually looking forward to testing this strategy out on other teams now.

And your plan actually proves why it'll work - If you're a really good team, you can co-ordinate to run away or stay, but you can't see, so it's hard to track and stay together, or to successfully stun the pursuers again when they're getting up. Still possible, of course, just not as easy.

Also, I'm pretty sure smoke would be a useful tool to break a stunlock, if you could time it right - probably best used when you're first walking in and know they're going to try for it.

Funny you should mention you use either crackers or poison - my usual manhunt offense build is both.

So, you're talking about preventing a Stun lock altogether and not about trying to get out of one?

If this is the case, then I agree with you. Crackers is the more sufficient ability to do this. It is also the more likely ability to be carried on Offense.

You could use Smoke and gain a few extra points for the team. If you carried smoke, you could just run into the ambush, starting Chases, and popping your smoke. Your teammates can then kill the contracts gaining the Distraction bonus'. Me and my friends are practicing around with this bonus. Still an iffy one to accomplish for the points to matter. It requires very good timing and coordination to use it effectively.

Also, you could never use Resistance. Without that Perk, your Contract will come back just as you start getting up. You can easily mash the kill button and counter their Stun this way.

I do tend to get Stuned while playing Offense, it happens. I never get Stun locked though because if I run into a group that consists of 2 or more targets, I call for back up. I will get 1 of them 95% of the time. If I don't, then I just exposed them for my friend(s) to take them out.

It's very difficult to catch a well communicated team in a Stun Lock lol. There's your best counter measure.

As for the profiles you mentioned. If I'm in a group with 3 of my friends, I will always use my Poison Profile which is:
Rapid Disguise
Slow Poison
Overall Cool
Wall Runner
3 Streak +300
RC

If we have 1 or 2 empty slots and we get a random in our team, then I run with my basic Hunter Profile:
Long Firecrackers
Rapid Decoy
OC
Wall Run
5 Streak +750
RC

On a side note, I've come to enjoy these interesting conversations we find ourselves in lol. Wish you played on the 360. I would enjoy playing with and against you =).

obliviondoll
01-06-2011, 02:33 AM
I know a co-ordinated team is the best defense - but when you've got 2 players working together and the other 2 ignoring you (or muting), not so helpful.

The match I used it, the whole opposing team was working together, and were always close to one another, so we NEEDED the whole team to go in together to have a chance - without being able to speak to 2 players, that's not going to happen.

What I did was one of two things:

1. walk in, drop crackers, and break us out of the stunlock - getting 3 - 4 of the targets killed in the process.

2. Got stunned myself trying for a kill, SOMETIMES landing it or a poison before the stun, then waiting until I got lucky enough to drop the crackers before the second stun - if I didn't land it before the 2nd, I'd respawn and try again.

Phyxsius-
01-06-2011, 02:48 AM
There is no solution if the stunners are smart - and they position always to your back. You never have time to throw firecrackers.

Respawn is the best idea EVEN if you could find a way to work the firecrackers:

Scenario: You are stunned by 2 folks.. you drop cracker.. kill one, get stunned by the survivor, a 3rd one comes and you are in the same situation. You already conceded 400 points while you are lined up for at least 400 more.

Sure, it is a too specific case, but it happens a lot in smart teams.

Ways to avoid Stun with no mics but with smart players: body language.

1.If I see a guy using Templar Vision, then standing back and not going in.. I assume the worst... at least 2 in the group and use firecracker.

2.If I see a static group of more than 5, I wait for backup or throw firecracker from its longest range - should do anyway but you would be amazed how many don`t. More often than not, they panic. Regardless of their reaction, you WILL break the group.

3.The best idea for stack of 4 is to walk one by one. Getting at worst 300 kills vs 200 stuns - one kills one each time and the chain starts - kill, stun, kill, stun - faster and simplest while working with randoms. After you broke them, they will usually get no more than 3, but only if the attackers are slow. More often seen are only groups of 2.

TheF00L82
01-06-2011, 03:16 AM
Originally posted by obliviondoll:
I know a co-ordinated team is the best defense - but when you've got 2 players working together and the other 2 ignoring you (or muting), not so helpful.

The match I used it, the whole opposing team was working together, and were always close to one another, so we NEEDED the whole team to go in together to have a chance - without being able to speak to 2 players, that's not going to happen.

What I did was one of two things:

1. walk in, drop crackers, and break us out of the stunlock - getting 3 - 4 of the targets killed in the process.

2. Got stunned myself trying for a kill, SOMETIMES landing it or a poison before the stun, then waiting until I got lucky enough to drop the crackers before the second stun - if I didn't land it before the 2nd, I'd respawn and try again.

Yeah, I'm sorry but I don't see an actual effective way of "Countering" a Stun Lock. I can only think that preventing one is the best way to go. If you have 2 idiots on the team that are getting Stun locked ... free kills for you =)

EscoBlades
01-06-2011, 03:51 AM
With my team, we almost always don't stun lock. We just take turns pressing B over the downed pursuer until he respawns (de-synchs) or his buddies come to save him by killing us.

We always make sure someone has a smoke bomb handy. We've succesfully caught 3 opponents in a stun trap before, netting 3 stuns each before the pressed Y.

FearlessSpeach
01-06-2011, 03:55 AM
Don't play manhunt. Then you can't be stun locked.

Phyxsius-
01-06-2011, 03:59 AM
Originally posted by EscoBlades:
With my team, we almost always don't stun lock. We just take turns pressing B over the downed pursuer until he respawns (de-synchs) or his buddies come to save him by killing us.

We always make sure someone has a smoke bomb handy. We've succesfully caught 3 opponents in a stun trap before, netting 3 stuns each before the pressed Y.

Uhhh... what you are doing is stun lock.

Stun lock, Stun trap, Chain Stun.. same thing.

[EDIT for below post by EscoBlades]I understand the term "Stun Lock" as being on the ground stunned and 2 or more players would just stun you again as you are getting up, making it virtually impossible to do anything but respawn (desync). I may be horrible mistaken too...

EscoBlades
01-06-2011, 04:15 AM
Originally posted by Phyxsius-:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by EscoBlades:
With my team, we almost always don't stun lock. We just take turns pressing B over the downed pursuer until he respawns (de-synchs) or his buddies come to save him by killing us.

We always make sure someone has a smoke bomb handy. We've succesfully caught 3 opponents in a stun trap before, netting 3 stuns each before the pressed Y.

Uhhh... what you are doing is stun lock.

Stun lock, Stun trap, Chain Stun.. same thing. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What i meant was...we don't use the "lock on" ability (pressing LT)...at least not in that situation. We get co-op stuns during open play, when we spawn far away from each other.

Kenpachi_cable
01-06-2011, 04:16 AM
I've actually had some trouble with that: I can't desync because my game won't give me the option half the time, the opponent stays to try at me again (for some odd reason, he thinks he can stun automatically before I get my contract). When I'm up and HAVE MY CONTRACT BACK, I still cannot lock onto him (this was an incident in an isolated area, ONLY he was close, and ONLY he was lit up) to assassinate, and I cannot just press square while right on him. In this case, we are both circling each other, might as well be doing the waltz, and I cannot execute the bastard, and he eventually stuns me again, then procedes to lock me with smoke and another ally after the smoke, which I STILL CANNOT DESYNC until being stunned 4, 4! times.

Also, can anybody explain to me how someone can get up IMMEDIATELY (I'm not kidding) after a STUN and LOSS of CONTRACT to kill me?

Happened to me. 5 times. From one person I'm sure, since he ended up with more than 8, sometimes 12, kills per session with the rediculously highest score. I'd be fine if he got up immediately and followed, I could chalk it up to an epic Resistance, but to immediately regain contract and kill me as I'm taking off right after the stun...

I quit that game, I was too irritated.

E-Zekiel
01-06-2011, 05:01 AM
To counter it I switch off of my offensive set and onto smoke bombs, usually. Either that or stay on my offensive set and take the poop points kill and shoot one of them. Once you manage to kill one it goes downhill and falls apart from there.

Zombie Izzardx
01-06-2011, 06:38 AM
My load out for Manhunt is usually Deadlly Gun and TV (though for people that feel to high and mighty to use it you can simply replace it with Firecrackers but I swear alot of people play with people who use TV in the most ******ed way. Anyways...) If I'm by myself or if I know that they will try to stun lock me. I climb above them (out of sight of course) use TV shot one of them, most the time the other team mate wont run wait for my focus bonus and kill the other one. Or drop the fire crackers off the side and take out the one that drops the smoke bomb.

obliviondoll
01-06-2011, 06:51 AM
Originally posted by zombie_izzard:
My load out for Manhunt is usually Deadlly Gun and TV (though for people that feel to high and mighty to use it you can simply replace it with Firecrackers but I swear alot of people play with people who use TV in the most ******ed way. Anyways...) If I'm by myself or if I know that they will try to stun lock me. I climb above them (out of sight of course) use TV shot one of them, most the time the other team mate wont run wait for my focus bonus and kill the other one. Or drop the fire crackers off the side and take out the one that drops the smoke bomb.
Good tactics.

I personally don't have a problem with TV.

I'm not good at using it myself, so I rarely do.

But I can appreciate that it's a useful ability, and effective if used right. I'm good at countering most people who use it, but the ones who get me, I usually feel deserved the kill.

Zombie Izzardx
01-06-2011, 08:06 AM
Originally posted by obliviondoll:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by zombie_izzard:
My load out for Manhunt is usually Deadlly Gun and TV (though for people that feel to high and mighty to use it you can simply replace it with Firecrackers but I swear alot of people play with people who use TV in the most ******ed way. Anyways...) If I'm by myself or if I know that they will try to stun lock me. I climb above them (out of sight of course) use TV shot one of them, most the time the other team mate wont run wait for my focus bonus and kill the other one. Or drop the fire crackers off the side and take out the one that drops the smoke bomb.
Good tactics.

I personally don't have a problem with TV.

I'm not good at using it myself, so I rarely do.

But I can appreciate that it's a useful ability, and effective if used right. I'm good at countering most people who use it, but the ones who get me, I usually feel deserved the kill. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I know its just I get so tired of hearing the backlash against it. Though I will agree that some people don't know how to use it. Another good tactic is using it in plain sight of the oppisite team, locking on to the person then having your team mate come up and kill them. Most time the people in the group will be waiting for you to make your move that they wont even notice your team mate coming.

Jack-Reacher
01-06-2011, 01:04 PM
My only problem with TV is team mates who use it right in front of the damn target while im sneaking up for a stealth kill, making them flee or drop smoke

EscoBlades
01-06-2011, 01:10 PM
Originally posted by zombie_izzard:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by obliviondoll:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by zombie_izzard:
My load out for Manhunt is usually Deadlly Gun and TV (though for people that feel to high and mighty to use it you can simply replace it with Firecrackers but I swear alot of people play with people who use TV in the most ******ed way. Anyways...) If I'm by myself or if I know that they will try to stun lock me. I climb above them (out of sight of course) use TV shot one of them, most the time the other team mate wont run wait for my focus bonus and kill the other one. Or drop the fire crackers off the side and take out the one that drops the smoke bomb.
Good tactics.

I personally don't have a problem with TV.

I'm not good at using it myself, so I rarely do.

But I can appreciate that it's a useful ability, and effective if used right. I'm good at countering most people who use it, but the ones who get me, I usually feel deserved the kill. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I know its just I get so tired of hearing the backlash against it. Though I will agree that some people don't know how to use it. Another good tactic is using it in plain sight of the oppisite team, locking on to the person then having your team mate come up and kill them. Most time the people in the group will be waiting for you to make your move that they wont even notice your team mate coming. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's exactly what i do. I'm the "spotter" on my team, and use TV and Firecrackers to either lock on targets or flush them out for the others to take care of.

Tanktric
01-06-2011, 01:25 PM
Firecrackers are invalid way of using to initiate assassinations if one of the targets have a smoke bomb. Time and time again, it is countered. Try other options.

Phyxsius-
01-06-2011, 01:32 PM
Originally posted by Tanktric:
Firecrackers are invalid way of using to initiate assassinations if one of the targets have a smoke bomb. Time and time again, it is countered. Try other options.

Not if you are above the target. Or outside the range of the SB.. which is at best 4 meters.. vs. 7 for firecracker.

FKNLunatick
01-06-2011, 01:38 PM
Originally posted by Phyxsius-:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tanktric:
Firecrackers are invalid way of using to initiate assassinations if one of the targets have a smoke bomb. Time and time again, it is countered. Try other options.

Not if you are above the target. Or outside the range of the SB.. which is at best 4 meters.. vs. 7 for firecracker. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agreed. Firecrackers are one of the best ways to avoid getting stun locked. As long as you have a halfway decent team, one firecracker will blind your targets so they can't see you to stun you, provided it's used close enough.

E-Zekiel
01-06-2011, 01:49 PM
Smoke bomb is about as effective. They can't smoke + stun you...if they too are smoked. And assassination beats stun.


Bottom line is, there are ways to counter it -you just have to be thinking of them before you go into the fray. If you're already in the fray and getting stunned, you won't be the savior http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

obliviondoll
01-07-2011, 03:32 AM
Last night, proved firecrackers to be a VERY effective way to break free of a stunlock.

In a 4 vs. 2 Manhunt match.

I was one of the 2, and we went for the whole hunted round, and all but the last minute of hunting, without picking up an extra (who got us 700 points total).

Either one of our scores compared with the other team looked like a close match. Mine was about 500 more than the entire enemy team had, and the teammate was about the same amount short of beating them single-handed.

We gave away a few stuns just because we were severely outnumbered and the other team were sticking close together and trying to cover one another, but we were consistently killing 2 for every stun they landed (while on defense we'd been getting 1 or 2 stuns with each death).

Overall, good support for taking crackers into manhunt (assuming you're good with them and not dropping them from within smoke range, of course).

FKNLunatick
01-07-2011, 12:05 PM
In my experience and with testing in a private match, there is no way to get out of a stun-lock once you're in it other than desync-ing.

Now, if I'm playing against a team that I know will try to stun-lock there's a few methods that I will do. One of my favorites is mute/sb. Run in there while hitting mute and then immediately SB. This works particularly well if you already know who your targets are and if there's a teammate nearby who will get the other/others that are in the group.

Another method, though I don't use it myself, that I've seen employed is using gun. If there's only two people in a group and you know who they are, you can shoot one and then go in to kill the other. This works best from rooftops where you don't have to worry as much about giving yourself away since just by being on the rooftop you've already given yourself away.

My hands-down favorite way though is, if they are in an area that they can be jumped on from, then you all pick out your target and count to three and your whole team jumps on them at the same time.

obliviondoll
01-07-2011, 12:22 PM
Originally posted by GSLunatick:
In my experience and with testing in a private match, there is no way to get out of a stun-lock once you're in it other than desync-ing.
Another teammate joining the party (even if they get stunned too) can disrupt things enough that even if you don't get time to recover contract, you can sometimes get time to trigger smoke or firecrackers while they're shuffling who's stunning who to account for the new arrival.

Best option is to keep these tactics in mind for breaking up a stunlock on your teammates, or for preventing one in the first place.

FKNLunatick
01-07-2011, 12:43 PM
I was just referring to personally getting out of a stun lock. We went into a 1vs2 and I did everything I could to get out of it and I couldn't. Certainly, having a teammate show up to save you is a way out

Honestly, what they need to do is make it so that you have a one second immunity to being stunned again. Now, don't get me wrong, I love the current system. Against a bunch of inexperienced players My team can rack up thousands in points just by stuns but, I also know that that way of playing is not in the spirit of the game. Unfortunately for my opponents I play to win and stun-locking wins games. Not to mention I'm working towards taking the number two spot on all-time stuns and under the current system I should be able to do so. If they change it it'll become much more difficult to do so.

Oil.Change11
01-09-2011, 02:24 AM
excactly.Tv and hidden gun beats stun lock.Don't worry about the points because getting stun locked will spell a loss anyway. I usually just shoot one of the group and clean up the rest with stealth kill.It works best with teammates thats willing to work together, for instance two shoot two of them and the other two stealth kill so your team an still rack up points. The best strategy is to avoid going into groups of enemies anyway. The most important thing is to knock them off their strategy