PDA

View Full Version : FS with guns?



joeap
07-14-2005, 03:33 AM
Just wondering what you guys think. You know I always enjoyed MSFS ... the civilian version but it seems they are out to rip off users with the next version.

Look here:
FS.com article (http://www.flightsim.com/cgi/kds?$=main/op-ed/ed365.htm)
Cut and paste article sidebar.

Flight Simulator With Guns?
By "Mad Max" Merlin

While a €œCFS/FS merge would be a big culture change for older simmers, for whom the idea that Flight Simulator would never have guns has been an article of faith,€ I have been lobbying our friends at Microsoft Game Studios for €œFlight Simulator with guns€ for years. CFS3 was a lot of fun but it certainly falls well short of a realistic combat flightsim experience. I€m not going to rag on CFS3 but issue a call to the community to let the Microsofties know whether you share my desire to have realistic combat aircraft modeled in FS10.

With all due respect to the FS non-combat purists, I€d like to point out that there is no law that says you must fly military aircraft, discharge ordinance just because the sim supports realistic modern air combat. If you want to fly airliners and peaceful aircraft, you should of course do that. I like flying for fun as well as blowing stuff up. But, for those of us who like to light up targets and want to see missiles come off the rails, combining the robust realism of FS10 with modern air combat ordinance and exploding targets would be fantastic. After all, I too am a Microsoftie.

I€ve been a die-hard FS and CFS flightsimmer since it was invented way back in the €œTrash€ 80 days. And I still prefer Microsoft Flight Simulator to all the other flightsims that are on the market today. Although I must admit a grudging respect for IL-2 and LOMAC and enjoy a mission or two with those sims. I would prefer flying both civilian flights and combat missions with a single sim. Even if it cost more to buy it. After all, I spent $50 for FS2004, $30 for CFS3, $50 for IL-2 and LOMAC. So, that adds up to $180 just to fly peacefully and also indulge my €œblood lust€. Even if Microsoft combined the two and sold FS10 for say $80, it still would leave $100 in my pocket instead of Ubisoft€s

I am convinced that FS with guns would yank the market away from IL-2 and LOMAC. Imagine the excitement of realistically flying a modern air combat mission. You have a very busy time on the flight deck in modern air combat. After shooting your F-14 Tomcat, F/A-18 or JSF fighter-bomber off the deck of an aircraft carrier, you need to navigate to target and coordinate with AWACS and JSTARS en route before you can lock target and fire your Phoenix missile. This puts a whole new spin on combat ATC and it would be a challenge to model, but a delight to fly.

FS with guns would also be a bonanza for developers, both payware and freeware. While we already have fantastic military freeware such as Kirk Olsson€s F-16 and even more fabulous payware such as the F/A-18 from Aerial Foundry, the F-104 Starfighter from Captain Sim and many others €" the ordinance is all show, no go. I want to dodge triple-A threats and SAMs that are really coming up at me. If I€m flying an F-117 Night Hawk, I want to feel what it€s really like to evade threats behind a hole in the sky.

When flying a Tomcat, I want to lock target, see the missile come off the rails when I call €œFox 1€ and watch my target go down in flames. Imagine the artistry required to not only model the airplane and panel, but also to faithfully model the laser guided weapons, JDAMS, A2A, A2G, A2S missiles, JSTARS missions, AWACS ATC and all the rest. You can get a taste of it in LOMAC, but I think FS10 with guns could take us to a much higher level of realism both in the cockpit and on the ground.

While flying historical missions over Europe and the Pacific re-creating World War II missions is always a thrill, I want to fly today€s air combat missions in today€s modern combat aircraft. And not just the jets. A truly realistic sim of Apache Longbow and Black Hawk helicopters would be sensational. So far, all attempts at doing that are honorable mentions but no one has truly nailed it. What€s more, if you have it all in FS10, the convenience alone is worth the price of admission.

I would like to experience what it€s really like to €œgo downtown€ over Baghdad or take out a nuke facility in Iran. Or, at least experience those missions as real as it gets with Flight Simulator. Flying a CFS3 B-17 through German flak so thick you can walk on it is always a serious sim challenge, but doing it without working panels makes it a spectator sport and flying air combat without using weapons is like kissing your sister.

I would like to experience what it was like to go downtown in a Phantom or Thud over Hanoi and Haiphong during the Vietnam War. Or drive a BUFF over the North during Operation Linebacker. I want to fly the Bone (B-1B) on nape-of-the-earth low-level penetration missions and see if I can put 5000 pound bunkerbusters on target. In this veteran flightsimmer€s opinion, there is really only one team that could deliver that sort of extremely sophisticated flightsim realism. Modern air combat is complicated stuff and I cannot wait to see what our friends at Microsoft could do with all that if they choose to take this old flightsimmer€s advice. For the Microsofties who read this, I have lots of emails from avid Flight Simulator fans who think the same thing. And for those flightsimmers who read this, let the Microsoft team know if you agree that FS10 should be FS with guns. Just send me your comments and opinions and I€ll make certain the Microsoft teams gets them all.

€œMad Max€ Merlin
maxmerlin@flightsim.com

Look at this thread to see what I think: (I'm joea duh)

thread (http://forums.flightsim.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=61948&mesg_id=61948&page=&topic_page=1)

Grue_
07-14-2005, 04:41 AM
I suppose MS will have to work hard on the FS10 core to allow 3rd parties to model weapon based add-ons for the sim.

I also hope developers allow you to upgrade their plane models/scenery for fs10 for little cost as upgrading will be very expensive otherwise.

If the Maddox BoB models are of the same quality as the RealAir Spitfire XIV I'm going to be very happy http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Bearcat99
07-14-2005, 06:33 AM
Well MS can do whatever it wants to do to FS... AFAIC they get no more of my flight sim $$ after CFS3.....

joeap
07-14-2005, 07:02 AM
Originally posted by Grue_:
I suppose MS will have to work hard on the FS10 core to allow 3rd parties to model weapon based add-ons for the sim.

I also hope developers allow you to upgrade their plane models/scenery for fs10 for little cost as upgrading will be very expensive otherwise.

If the Maddox BoB models are of the same quality as the RealAir Spitfire XIV I'm going to be very happy http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Don't think you understood the article...how can MSFS compete with IL2 or BoB if you have to fly over modern scenery? Can they design proper AI and DM it is a bit more complex than the commercial traffic they have now. You need the context as well as the planes, yes RealAir is fabulous.

Bearcat, different strokes right? I like civilian FS for itself for navigating over modern cities etc. with current rules. If I just fly a PF plane in a map (the online servers but offline) I just see it zooming around like my cousin does on his morotcycle on rural roads. I think this would be a half-a@#$ measure to try to keep some market share. I really wish they would put out a CFS4 say Korea or something different.

9th_Spitin
07-14-2005, 08:19 AM
Well, I think it would be very interesting to see FS10 with a combat add-on. I know I would take a serious look at it and most likely add it to my collection.

My squad enjoys the step over to FS2004 once and a while and enjoy the full world map and scenery. I dont get crazy about the modern jets, but do enjoy a good "HOP" in my Spit or B-25. I just wish someone would make a nice B-24 or B-29 that has realistic FM.

joeap
07-14-2005, 08:42 AM
Repeating, only if they could add 1940s scenery. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

MEGILE
07-14-2005, 08:58 AM
Originally posted by joeap:
Just wondering what you guys think. You know I always enjoyed MSFS ... the civilian version but it seems they are out to rip off users with the next version.

Look here:
FS.com article (http://www.flightsim.com/cgi/kds?$=main/op-ed/ed365.htm)
Cut and paste article sidebar.

Flight Simulator With Guns?
By "Mad Max" Merlin



I am convinced that FS with guns would yank the market away from IL-2 and LOMAC.

And why would this be a good thing? What a rather silly thing to say. What would be good about having a flight sim market with only 1 flight sim developer.
Fact is LO-MAC and IL2 are both pushing the boundaries of flight simming. MSFS has its place, and it is a good flight sim no doubt.
These Russian Sim developers struggle enough to compete with Micro$oft as it is.

Microsoft fanboy --> you nice?

MS_Siwarrior
07-14-2005, 09:20 AM
Those Mircosofties have twisted minds http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif
They think il2 is only good for a mission or 2 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif
ROFL

BaldieJr
07-14-2005, 09:33 AM
I'd buy MSFS with guns.

9th_Spitin
07-14-2005, 10:00 AM
Competition is good for everything, it keeps everyone moving forward instead of thinking they can sit back because they are the only game in town.

jeroen_R90S
07-14-2005, 10:05 AM
Dunno, simply sounds too big and complex to do everything properly. I *suspect* a lot of features will be rather half-baked then.

I wonder how large that c:\program files\microsoft flight simulator 10\ folder will get!

Jeroen

RAF92_Moser
07-14-2005, 11:14 AM
Hell, yeh. That writer knows what I have in mind. A little of big prayer for a sim like that, but it could work.

As for 1940's scenery, give me a break. Why would we need that for modern air combat? Great thing about FS, full world to move about. Not these little maps. I want to take a B-52 and carpet bomb some target a 1000 miles away.

IL-2 series is the best in WWII era in combat flight simulator, but IC should invest in modern aircraft.

Why BOB? Why recreate that scenario again and again? RAF fighters shoot down bombers and escorts. Luftwafte shoots down fighters. BORING? Not to mention that a BOB II just CAME OUT.

So a realistic FS modern combat flight simulator would definitely be my priority to buy instead of a measely few months of a major WORLD war.

joeap
07-14-2005, 02:30 PM
Originally posted by RAF92_Moser:
Hell, yeh. That writer knows what I have in mind. A little of big prayer for a sim like that, but it could work.

As for 1940's scenery, give me a break. Why would we need that for modern air combat? Great thing about FS, full world to move about. Not these little maps. I want to take a B-52 and carpet bomb some target a 1000 miles away.

IL-2 series is the best in WWII era in combat flight simulator, but IC should invest in modern aircraft.

Why BOB? Why recreate that scenario again and again? RAF fighters shoot down bombers and escorts. Luftwafte shoots down fighters. BORING? Not to mention that a BOB II just CAME OUT.

So a realistic FS modern combat flight simulator would definitely be my priority to buy instead of a measely few months of a major WORLD war.

Uh you think an addon module could compete with LOMAC or Falcon 4? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif With all the Ai and such? Anyway, BoB is jsut the first of may expansions for different theatres using a new engine and FM that 1C are developing.

han freak solo
07-14-2005, 03:28 PM
I am convinced that FS with guns would yank the market away from IL-2 and LOMAC.

By the time FS10 came out, with or without guns, this wouldn't apply anyway. IL2 and Lomac would be replaced by something else. Hopefully, 1C will still be in the mix with groundbreaking stuff!

Plus, this guy apparently wants MS to have a monopoly on the sim market. Hell, they already nearly do. I don't know why he cares.

Maybe he's a MS shareholder.

RAF92_Moser
07-14-2005, 03:52 PM
Originally posted by joeap:
Uh you think an addon module could compete with LOMAC or Falcon 4? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif With all the Ai and such? Anyway, BoB is jsut the first of may expansions for different theatres using a new engine and FM that 1C are developing.

Uh, YES, I do think an appropriate combat module will compete. It is clearly said in the original post. Fat chance, but a potential idea. Going to require a lot of work to revise the whole game. But I'm dreaming right now.

And when did Microsoft have a monopoly on the sim market? They have some sims out there, but there only competing one is FS. I'm just really sick and tired of the anti-Microsoft bandwagon. Some people never quit.

Well, now I'm also informed BOB is going to be expanded upon like IL-2 was.

Too much Deja Vu. I also guess BOB is going to be replaced by the same thing, a newer, more realistic simulator. And that will be expanded too.

Let's hope the next simulation is going to be complete and polished.

9th_Spitin
07-14-2005, 04:10 PM
han freak solo,

Nice xp-38 for your sig.

Capt.England
07-14-2005, 05:08 PM
I did laugh out loud at the post in the thread where someone said about flying on a VATsim controlled flight, and getting some jerk shooting you down in your Cessna! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Yes, I know. I must stop playing GTA San-An http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

han freak solo
07-14-2005, 07:00 PM
Originally posted by 9th_Spitin:
han freak solo,

Nice xp-38 for your sig.

Sweet, ain't she? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif

han freak solo
07-14-2005, 07:21 PM
Originally posted by RAF92_Moser:
And when did Microsoft have a monopoly on the sim market? They have some sims out there, but there only competing one is FS. I'm just really sick and tired of the anti-Microsoft bandwagon. Some people never quit.

Just an observation based on the civilian flight simming out there. Not including all the add-ons out there. Look at http://www.justflight.com. Note the sims and add-ons that work with MS products compared to anything else.

I'm not a MS hater as far as simming goes. Hell, I own three versions of CFS. I do like to see diversity, but MS is omnipresent. For instance, this rig uses MS XP, I have a MS Sidewinder Pro 2 Joystick, I have MS Office, etc., etc.

This quote, "I am convinced that FS with guns would yank the market away from IL-2 and LOMAC.", sounds like something "I" would say at a shareholders meeting of how "we" at MS could gain market share, therefore gaining more money and eliminating a rival. Such is business.

I don't love MS and I don't hate MS. MS provides me with the tools to carry out many things.

budvar62
07-15-2005, 04:24 AM
Hmm - hope this comment isn't mis-interpreted, but PURELY on a executive stress relief basis - if somebody did do this, would I be the only one who occasionally went up and tried my hand at shooting down civilian airliners...

If I've offended anyone with this comment I apologise but please take it in the spirit it is meant. Also, there's the whole Air Force One scenario... ;-)


PS :JUst noticed I made my 100...

Capt.England
07-15-2005, 01:15 PM
Budvar62. You're not the only sick puppy out there! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif

ClnlSandersLite
07-15-2005, 03:58 PM
No defensive armament? Too easy....

han freak solo
07-15-2005, 09:01 PM
Originally posted by ClnlSandersLite:
No defensive armament? Too easy....

Or fair....

Aaron_GT
07-16-2005, 02:00 AM
A general aviation system is going to be used in a combat flight simulation, but it is X-Plane with fighter ops (http://www.fighterops.com I think)

WTE_Ibis
07-16-2005, 03:33 AM
M uddled S tuff will never get it right be sure

han freak solo
07-16-2005, 08:00 AM
http://www.lssdigital.com/Clint%20and%20FS2004.jpg

han freak solo
07-16-2005, 10:57 PM
Bump for Clint! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif