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DIRTY-MAC
05-30-2005, 05:34 PM
Japanese Air Order of Battle and Operations Against 'August Storm'
August 1945
By Joe Brennan

An air order of battle for the Second Air Army, principal air unit of the Kwantung Army in Manchuria, the main Japanese force facing the Soviet invasion, Operation August Storm, August 1945, is given in Japanese Monograph No. 151, transcribed below. Modern place names where they differ, Kitai numbers of aircraft types and other editorial notes are in [].

[ORGANIZATION] Units Under the Control of the Second Air Army July 1945


Unit Location
Combat Commands
Second Air Army (Hq) Hsinking[ Changchun]
15 th Air Brigade (Hq) Anshan
104 th Air Regiment Anshan
25 th Independent Air Squadron Liaoyang
81 st Independent Air Squadron W of Hsinking

Manchurian Army Air Units
Air Unit Hq. Hsinking
1st Air Unit Hsinking
2 nd Air Unit Mukden [ Shenyang]
3 rd Air Unit Antung [ Dandong]
Air School Manhungtun

Training Units
101 st Air Training Brigade (Hq) Kungchuling [Gongzhuling]
4 th Advanced Air Training Unit Mukden
13 th Advanced Air Training Unit Kungchuling
22 nd Advanced Air Training Unit Hsingyuchcheng
23 rd Air Training Unit Chingshanru
26 th Air Training Unit Mengkuli
42 nd Air Training Unit Yamentun
24 th Air Training Unit Sanshilipu
Air Academy Hq. Hailang
Air Academy Training Camp Hailin
Air Academy Training Camp Hsingshu
Air Academy Training Camp Chenhsi
Air Academy Training Camp Chentung
5 th Air Training Unit Hq.
Chinchow [ Jinzhou]
Air Unit Training Camp Fushin
Air Unit Training Camp Hsingcheng
Air Unit Training Camp Koupantzu
Air Unit Training Camp Kaiyun

[STRENGTH] Number of Second Air Army Aircraft: About 10 August 1945

[Unit] [Aircraft Type] [Number]

Unit Aircraft Type Number
104 th Air Regiment Type 4 Fighter-single seater [Ki-84] 40*
25 th Ind. Air Sdn Type 2 Fighter-two seater [Ki-45] 25*
81 st Ind Air Sdn Type 2 Fighter-two seater [Ki-45] 20*
Type 100 Hq. Recon [Ki-46] 5*
5 th Air Training Unit Type 2 Advanced Trainer [Ki-79] 50
Type 99 Advanced Trainer [Ki-55] 30
23 rd Air Training Unit Type 99 Light Bomber 2 eng. [Ki-48] 10*
Type 99 Advanced Trainer [Ki-55] 10
Two Engine Advanced Trainer [Ki-54?] 10
24 th Air Training Unit Type 100 Heavy Bomber [Ki-49] 10*
Two Engine Advanced Trainer [Ki-54?] 10
26 th Air Training Unit Type 1 Fighter-single seater [Ki-43] 20*
Type 2 Advanced Trainer [Ki-79] 50
42 nd Air Training Unit Type 100 Hq. Recon [Ki-46] 10*
4 th Adv Air Training Unit Type 1 Fighter-single seater [Ki-43] 30*
13 th Adv Air Training Unit Type 1 Fighter-single seater [Ki-43] 20*
22 nd Adv Air Training Unit Type 99 Assault [Ki-51] 20*
Hane Assault Unit Type 97 Light Bomber 1 eng. [Ki-30] 10
Type 97 Heavy Bomber [Ki-21] 10
Air Academy Type 99 Advanced Trainer [Ki-55] 130
Two Engine Advanced Trainer [Ki-54?] 40
Jungmann Trainer [Ki-86] 300
Manchurian AF and School Type 97 Hq. Recon [Ki-15] 30*
Type 2 Fighter-single seater [Ki-44] 40*
Type 97 Fighter-single seater [Ki-27] 60*
Total 1000

[Adds to 990 as given. The Soviet estimate of Kwantung Army air strength was 1800, presumably not figuring such a high percentage of totally non-combat types]

*combat serviceable

Another 20 transport and liaison types were in the flying section of 2 nd Air Army Hq. and Kwantung Army Hq. There were also a number of unserviceable planes at each repair depot.

During operations against the Soviet Union about 10 aircraft were lost in combat and about 50 to other causes.
Approximately 10 hq. recon planes and 6 transports (Type M.C.) [Ki-57/ MC-20] were transferred to the Soviets. Other planes were handed over to the Chinese Communist Army, which later entered Manchuria, the CCA established the Air Training School in Manchuria. At that school approximately 40 Japanese Fighters (Type 4) are [written in immediate postwar period] employed in training. However, just after the end of the war the Chinese Nationalist Army advanced to southern Manchuria, and it is presumed they captured some Japanese planes at the Mukden and Changchun airfields
CHRONOLOGY OF OPERATIONS

9 August: The Soviet Union declared war on Japan and the Red Army crossed the Manchurian border in several places. One force moved west from the Vladivostok and Khabarovsk areas, another south from the direction of Chita toward Harbin, Hsingking [ Changchun] and Mukden [ Shenyang]. The 81 st Ind Air Squadron reconnoitered the eastern and western fronts.

10 August: The Soviet Zabaikal Area Army (motorized) [Transbaikal Front] crossed the border of Outer Mongolia and advanced to Horengoro.

The [15h Air?] Brigade moved to Chinchow [ Jinzhou] and the 101 st Air Training Brigade, reinforced by the 4 th Advanced Air Training Unit, to move to Tsitsihar [ Qiqihar]. After redeployment these units were to attack the enemy in the vicinity of Linhsi [Linxi] and Taonan.

11 August: A powerful enemy force moved south on the Uruschin-Linhsi road. As ordered the 15 th Air Brigade advanced to Chinchow and Tsitsihar.

12 August: The enemy reached the line of Hailar, Wuchakow [Wuchagou], Tulieh, Mactu, Linhsi and on the eastern front, the area of the Muling [river] position.

The 101 st Air Training Brigade (reinforced) advanced to Tsitsihar. The 15 th Air Brigade attacked Linhsi and the 101 st Air Training Brigade attack the enemy 50km west of Lichuan [Tuquan]. 25 Type 4 fighters, 17 Type 2 two seater fighters and 142 [sic, only 70 listed in the OOB] Type 1 fighters were used in these attacks and the results were 27 guns and 42 trucks destroyed and about 500 men and horses killed.

13 August: The enemy main body reached Hsingan [Wangyemiao or Ulan Hot or vicinity], Lichuan and Chinchaimiao (40km SW of Taonan) apparently for the purpose of concentrating his forces.

The Air Army continued its attack in spite of the bad weather. The 15 th Air Brigade, flying into a storm, returned to Anshan. The 101 st Air Training Brigade attacked the enemy 30km west of Taonan with selected planes.

Sortie Strength: 3 Type-99 assault planes, 4 Type 1 fighters.

Results: 8 tanks.

14 August: The enemy at the western front deployed along the Hsingan-Lichuan-Linhsi line and began preparations of the advance; approximately 1,500 motor trucks were coming from the rear. The enemy constructed airfields in the vicinity of Hsingan and Taipsi [Taiping]. The main force of the enemy on the eastern front was preparing for attack near Muling, and 150 tanks advanced through an opening to the left of the Mutankiang [ Mudanjiang].

The Air Army continued to attack with an element while preparing for renewed attacks against the enemy main body on the western front, which were scheduled for the 15 th. An element of the 15 th Air Brigade attacked the enemy in the vicinity of Linhsi. The main body of the 101 st Air Training Brigade (with the 4 th Advanced Air Training Unit attached) attacked the enemy 15km W of Taonan.

Sortie Strength: 5 Type 4 fighters; 7 two seater fighters; 13 Type 1 fighters; 4 Type 99 assault planes.

Results: 3 tanks.

The 15 th Air Brigade and the 101 st Air Training Brigade concentrated their entire forces at Anshan and Kungchuling [Gongzhuling], respectively. The Hane Air Unit, composed of the 26 th Air Training Unit and the 4 th Advanced Air Training Unit, concentrated at Fenchipo [Fenshui] and prepared for the attack of the 15 th, with the issuance of the Hane Air Unit Operation Order A, No. 48. Then, the 15 th Air brigade and Hane Air Unit advanced to Ssuping [Siping] and to the west of Hsinking, respectively. Preparations of the 1 st Hane Special Attack Unit (5 th Air Training Unit) began.

15 August: No change in the enemy situation.

Carried out the scheduled attack in the morning. The entire force of the 15 th Air Brigade attacked Taonan from Ssuping. The entire force of the 101 st Air Training Brigade advanced to Tsitsihar and made preparations for the attack in the afternoon. The entire force of the Hane Air Unit attacked Taonan from Hsinking and advanced to Tsitsihar.

Sortie Strength: 12 Type 4 fighters; 9 two seater fighters; 18 Type 1 Fighters

Results: 23 planes; 135 motor trucks; 2 warehouses; 5 positions; approximately 300 men. [P-63€s of the 17 Fighter Regiment, Soviet Tactical Air Forces, claimed a Ki-27 or Ki-43 among those attacking A-20€s and damaging one, near Wangyemiao 15 August].

The Imperial Rescript on cease-fire was received at noon.

Upon receipt of the Imperial Rescript ending the war at noon of the 15 th, the attacks were suspended and the forces, maintaining strict watch for the purposes of self- defense, waited in readiness. Subsequent attacks and the projected special attack of the 5 th Air Training Unit suspended at 2400 hours.

[Only combat and otherwise selected entries are excerpted from the entries of 16 August through 4 September.]

17 August: €¦The Hane Air Unit provided one squadron, under the command of Captain Kamata, to escort Prince Takeda on his flight from Seoul to Hsinking.

18 August: €¦The squadron of the Hane Air Unit completed the escort mission for Prince Takeda (4 planes in suicide plunge). [Loza in €œCommanding the Red Army€s Sherman Tanks€ reports an attack by 6 suicide planes on his 46 th Tank Brigade, 6 th Guards Tank Army, near Tongliao 19 August, one truck was destroyed and a Sherman damaged].

19 August: €¦a paratroop unit of the Soviet Army landed in the Hsinking East Airfield about 1400 hours€¦.Also the river guard of the Manchurian Army started a revolt, and it was feared that the liaison with North Manchuria might be cut off at the Second Sungari River. Therefore on the morning of the 19 th, the 15 th Air Brigade was hastily concentrated at Hsinking and ordered to attack (the Manchurian force), and at the same time search and attacks were carried out against these forces by an element of the 42 nd Air Training Unit.

ADDITIONAL JAPANESE AIR UNITS FACING THE SOVIETS, AUGUST 1945

A probably incomplete list follows of air units engaging or possibly engaging the Soviets other than those of the Kwantung Army given in Monograph 151:

5 th Air Army ( China): apparently the 90 th Air Regiment (Ki-48) was the only Japanese air unit in China proper to engage the Soviets, though others advanced in preparation. It flew 20 sorties against the Soviets 14 August.

JAAF fighter units in Korea: The 22 nd, 25 th and 85 th Air Regiments, Ki-84, were based in southern Korea at the end of the war. They engaged USAAF units over Korea in August but no information is known of operations against the Soviets. However according to a Russian source, the North Korean air force operated Ki-43€s at least until the late 1940€s, apparently from Japanese units stationed at some point in northern Korea (the 25 th had Ki-43€s on hand at least into 1945).

JNAF fighter unit in Korea: Hikotai 304 of Air Group 252 (formerly Fighter Squadron, Genzan Air Group) was based at Wonsan, northern Korea in 1945. Several sources indicate that this unit was equipped with some N1K1-J Shiden (George) and J2M Raiden (Jack) fighters in addition to A6M5€s (Yak-9€s of the 19 th Fighter Regiment, Soviet Fleet Air Arm, claimed 2 J2M€s in northeastern Korea, 15 August).

JAAF fighter unit in the Kuriles: 3 rd Chutai, 54 th Air Regiment (Ki-43) based at Kashiwabara, Paramushiro.

JNAF fighter unit in the Kuriles: Shumshu Detachment, Air Group 203, based at Shumshu, 19 A6M€s as of 1944

ku101-Shrike
05-30-2005, 07:25 PM
Awesome!, well done i been trying to find info on this for a mission to make against the ruskies!. Apart from the P63 and Yak-9, which other a/c did the Russians use ?

MiamiEagle
06-01-2005, 12:34 AM
Thats great work. I love this kind of post.
Its a more mature post and it has very interesting report on a campaign that the rest of the world and even the Soviet people had very little information on.

For what I understand. It was a very quick and bloody campaign.It was much more bloodier than the Soviet would let the rest of the world know.

I believe tha Japanese gave a better account of themself than the official history would led us to believe since of the information we gather from that campaign was mostly gather by the soviets.

Needless to say they did defeated the Japanese soundly. The Soviet had learn a lot form the previous European war and their force where much more superior than there opponent.

Knowing how good in defence the Japanese where at the time and how brutal the Soviets in their use of force. The casualties must of been horrendous.

Much greater than we will ever know.

It would nice if you can get information on the after math of the Battle. Good work.

Thank you

Miamieagle

SakiMoto
06-01-2005, 11:15 AM
Originally posted by MiamiEagle:
Thats great work. I love this kind of post.
Its a more mature post...

For what I understand. It was a very quick and bloody campaign.It was much more bloodier than the Soviet would let the rest of the world know.

I believe tha Japanese gave a better account of themself than the official history would led us to believe since of the information we gather from that campaign was mostly gather by the soviets.

Knowing how good in defence the Japanese where at the time and how brutal the Soviets in their use of force. The casualties must of been horrendous.

Much greater than we will ever know.

It would nice if you can get information on the after math of the Battle. Good work.

Thank you

Miamieagle

Speaking of mature posts Miami, you make a few unfounded statements in your post.

quote:
"I believe tha Japanese gave a better account of themself than the official history would led us to believe since of the information we gather from that campaign was mostly gather by the soviets."

what makes Russian information gathering more official?

quote:
"Knowing how good in defence the Japanese where at the time and how brutal the Soviets in their use of force. The casualties must of been horrendous.

Much greater than we will ever know."

Your making a broad assumption.


By the way, a copy of original post can be found here(word for word w/photos):Written by: Joe Brennan (http://www.j-aircraft.com/research/joe_brennan/order_of_battle.htm)

MiamiEagle
06-01-2005, 08:06 PM
SakiMota thank you for reading this post.Most are content in only whinning about the game. Thats our right and it let us release some of of the passions we feel for this hobby.

But sometimes its nice to talk about the history that this and other World war two simulators are about.

Its a needed change of pace.

Now you have to learn to distinguage between a opinion and factual historical statement. My post is only a educated opinion.

To now history is not to beleive everything that the history books us only as facts.

History books and document are written by people for people. They have a objective and a motive on why it was written.

Who wrote it and why is always a viable question. The circumtances and the political motivation are almost to be taken into account.

If you do not recall Soviet History was always official history and never allowed to be written by individual without officially been censor.

The Soviet had the extra incentive to impress the world with their military power since the US as they already through their Spies had the Atomic Bomb.

As it aready been proven and well known throughout the world that the Soviet where less than truthful when writing their history.

As you may recall. We have learn more about the sacrifices the Russians and their allies had to endure than they ever knew before the End of the Cold war.

Even the Russian people did not now that over 26 millions had died during the war. Of those that died most where military men.

The Soviet system was base on sofisticated lies for the benefit of the state.

Knowing this and knowing thruogh much reading on the subject. You start to a feel on this and other subjects a educated intuition on what really happen.

Did you now that the Soviet did not allowed any independent obsever to record this campaign. Did you now about 95% of the Japanese that parcipated in this campaign never return to Japan.

Most died in concration camps. You probably did now that the Soviet also stoled all industries back to Russia.

If you really like history always read it with a grain of salt. No one whether from our side or the enemies ever wrote the truth and nothing but the truth.

I hope you do not get offended by what I have written. Its a friendly exchange of historical opinion.

Miamieagle

Profy_le_Troll
06-02-2005, 09:05 AM
Well, well, Yes it was a very bloody fight.

Japanese army effectives were globally : 1.040.000 demoralized, poorly equiped soldiers (300.000 were from mandchoukouo army, even more poorly trained, armed, motivated soldiers); 1155 tanks (most were totally outdated and unable to fight T-34 and IS) ; 5360 artillery guns ; and close to 1155 aircraft. All were under the command of General Yamada Otozo

Red army had 1.200.000 well trained and motivated soldiers, 5500 tanks (T-34-85, IS II, IS III,...) 26.000 artillery guns ; 4000 aircraft under the command of Marechal Vassilievsky.

It is clear Red army totally surpassed in number and in quality the japanese army. More on that Otozo had thousands miles of border to defend. while the russian gathered their army on 2 medium front on from the west (under Gen Malinovski command) and the other on the east (gen Meretskov).

Russia declared war to japan on august 8 1945 (2 days afterhiroshima bombing). On august 9 russia army jumped over japanese army On west side gen Pliev and his tanks travelled around 100 km per day into the destertic lands and joined Mao tse toung popular army on august 21 a little under the Great Wall

On the east side the japanese army was a bit more reluctant to flee and defended well The japanese headquarter was in Moutankiang which was totaly isolated during 15 to 16 night. It resisted for 4 days befora capitulating. On the 10th of august russians penetrated in North Korea and rushed to Sakhaline (this part of conflict ended on the 25th). Meanwhile Russia invaded Kouriles island which was under control on 1st september and the Mandchouria war was at this time over.

Globally Imperial Japanese army lost close to 104.000 men, 594.000 prisoner of war were sent to siberia, on those men less than 10% saw the japân again many year after.

Red army had much lower casualties 8219 killed and 22.264 wounded.

It was a victory for the Reds and a massive conquer of land. Was it necessary to end the war ? Not at all. Was it needed for Stalline ? Yes and No Yes because on yalta meeting Stalline agreed to attack Japan in the 3 month after germany's defeat. And He did so just 3 month after. Could he have not attack Japan ? Sure but he did to expand Russia's land and take over some important ressources.

MiamiEagle
06-02-2005, 12:27 PM
Profy_le_troll you are right in your accessment of the military situation by 1945. The Russian not only had the numerical sureriority but also in quality.

Another thing that most amatures like me did not know until recently was that a large component of the Japanese Manchurian Army was compose of Manchurian conscripts.

The Japanese Army was a shadow of itself. Who won and who lost is not in question. Its the detail thats in questions.

Its the number given and the miscoception of the Invation been a cake walk.

Thats what will always bee in question.

We have alway taken Soviet history as nothing but facts and that just wrong.

When you love history you always investigate everything from all angles and not just take what ever information given as the facts.

Just the invation of Sakhaline must have cost thousand of casualties.

Imagine the rest of the campaign.

Miamieagle

Profy_le_Troll
06-03-2005, 05:45 AM
MiamiEagle, the number are as much as we know close to the reality. Japanese lost are High due to the fact the were in total inferiority, the first hours of the fight were intense artillery preparation which nearly anihilated any line of japanese defense, then came the russian tanks followed by infantry and be sure they didn't do many prisoners of war in the first hours, many of the few japanese who surdered were simply shot down (that's sad but that's the facts). There was no real large fight during this war, but small and very intensive fight, specially once the russian passed the river "Amour" on the road to Harbin. So yes we can say japanese army foughted well but there was no chance for her to win or just resist. More on that any troop s japan tried to move from inner mandchouria to the fight zone were heavily bombed by USAAF.

So no it was not a cake walk, not at all but the facts are that Red army suffed much less casualties than Japan army, in fact many japanese or mandchoukouo's soldiers died whitout seeing there enemies (artillery, bombing,..)

And Yes I always check all the side (be sure i am not satisfied with the winner's history) but you are wrong thinking it costed more live (it costed more than enough to both side).

MiamiEagle
06-04-2005, 10:09 AM
Proffy_le_troll I could not diaggree with you more. Its our right and the right thing to do. Its our duty to quetion any thing that one beleives it might be wrong in this life.

thats exactly the mentality a totalitarian goverments would like us to have. they would tell us something and we had to accept it as truth without question.

I would question any thing been told to me and I encorage you to do the same.

No goverment will ever give the whole truth with the information they will provide you with.

All goverments have lied throughout History. All history written is not wriiten as the only absolute truth.

Question and inquire about any information given and do not accept it as is. Maybe that way you may reach the truth.

Be open minded and accept when you are wrong that you are wrong.

Can help be amaze that you accepted those numbers when they all come from a deceiving goverment as was the Soviet goverment.

I can give you many examples on how deceiving this Govenment was.

Did you know the Russian Revolution was never a Communist revolt but a spontanious populular uprising from the Russian people against their involvement in World war one.

They where hungry and tire of the war. The first non Czar Goverment was not soviet but Palimentary provisional goverment that was supose to turn the Goverment to democracy after the war.

Lennin was run out of the Country and he hid in Finland. Finally with the help of the Germans. He was able to return to Russia.

There he and his group convince the local naval sailors in Petersburg to do a coup-detat to the goverment.

If you read Soviet History they wrote it about this event as if it was popular uprising against the prositional goverment that made possible for them to take over.

If you read Soviet History of the thirties it would made you beleive that Stalin was there when they took over the goverment.

That was far from the truth. He was no where near Peterburg on that day.

They also tried to erase Trosky form History.

Its History book will tried to make the Soviet Goverment look as where a peaceful goverment when the Nazis invaded them.

When in reality they had sign a uneasy alliance treaty with Nazis and had invaded Poland with the German in 1939.

They Invaded Finland and made Mongolia a protective state.

They occupied Latvia, Estonia and Luthania in 1940. They decapitated the Army because of its officers dur to Stalins paranoia mind.

Did you know that this episode of Russian History is one of the saddest and most tragic time in Russian History.

The Red army never really recover from Stalin purges. Can you imagine how much better the Red Army would have perfom if the purges had not happen.

That form of goverment kidnap the Russian people for seventy years and almost destroy them through it repression on the human spirit.

Just look what can people can do when they are free to express themselve.

Just look at the game you are flying with. This is just a small demostration on much talent the rest of the world was missing while Russia was under the repression by that absurd system.

My point is that anything that this form of goverment would tell us through its disturded version of History should be review and review many times before we take as the truth.

In my view Russia will be great again, but this time through its creativity and not through repression and brute force.

Miamieagle

MiamiEagle
06-05-2005, 12:08 AM
I want to clarify something. I have written this post only to clarify history and not to demean or disrespect from the the acheivements of the Russian and its ally soldiers in World war two.

Without their sacrifice and the allies would probably not have won the war.

This post was written by me for the purpose of point out the disinformation quality of the Soviet goverment at the time.

We who love history and the purerity of its record should be careful in taking Soviet accounts of the war as pure facts.

I"am not saying the battle won where not won. All I"am saying is that the way they where won may not have been what actually happen.

As matter of fact I have more respect for the Soviet soldier now than before once I came to realization on how careless its officer and goverment treated them thruough the war.

No other Goverment pushed its soldier more without regard for their well beign than Soviets.

The one exception were the Japanese. The Japanese also where great in disinformantion but they where never as good as the Soviets.

One thing that always bother me about the Japanese to this day is their denial of atrocities commited in the war by them.

As for the Soviets killing prisoners of war in the Manchurian campaign. All I can say is that all the armies at the time did it to some extent.

This does not make it right but it did happen.

Now lets be more care full and not allow any one source bee the only identity of our source of truth.

Miamieagle

Profy_le_Troll
06-05-2005, 12:33 AM
You are right on the fact russian soldiers endured well the war without any real support from their superior.

when you say "Without their sacrify the allies would probably not have won the war.
"I agree on that for the european front", on the Pacific war they were not needed, came too late to play any influence.

And once more you are right on the fact as we lover of history needs more than one point of view to establish a clear, neutral history line.

MiamiEagle
06-06-2005, 09:43 AM
Proffy_Le_troll thank you for beign open minded. A man greatness is not express by what he knows but by what his willing to learn.

As for your comment that if Russia would have capitulated it would only effected the European Theater is a misconception many have had for years.

Believe it or not the wars where more connected than previously understood.

What effected on area of the world it would also have reprecussions on the other side of the world.

Had the Germany won on the European Theater it would have force the US to dedicate more forces to that Theater. There for less forces would have been realocated for the Pacific Theater dues providing Japan with a oppotunity to win the war.

Less not forget that Germany and Japan where Allies during the war.

So if Soviets had lost the Patriotic war. It would made it very difficult for the allies to win the war.

So you see the parcipation of Russia and its allies was essential in their contribution toward the eventual ally victory.

I have for years tried to separate my books and documentaries and information bank from each other.

I have always tries to keep them separate into the European and Pacific Theater respectively. No matter how much I try they always seem some how to get mingle together.

I gave up trying anymore . I treat it as metaphor on how connected this world war was. I think of it now as a world civil war.

Another thing I want to clear up is the notion that the USSR involment in Asia war had no consequence to the conduct of that war.

Historical records of that period of the Pacific war contradict our collective thinking.

First of all the participation of the USSR in the Pacific war was induce by President Roosevelt in 1943 at the Teheran conference.

In order to reduce US casualties in the Pacific war. Roosevelt ask Stalin if he could help us in the Pacific war after the European war was over.

Stalin happly complied with his request inspite some his military men been luckworm toward the idea.

Roosevelt always felt in his naive political International vision that he could control Stalin after the war and that Soviet system would change its altitude toward the West after the war.

The U.S. alway knew that the war with Japan was going to be a lot tougher than the European war in the long run if we had to invade Japan.

When Russia invaded Manchuria they handed Japan its greatest military land defeat in Japan Military history.

Japans fear of a Soviet invation was even greater than the the fear of the Atomic bombs.
The Atomic bomb did make a impression on the Japanese Goverment.

It did influence their dicision to Surrender. But equal in there disicion was their fear of been occupied by the Russian.

Believe or not there where Japanese military men that still wanted to fight on inspite the Atomic Bombs.

It was the Soviet invation that tip the balance on their opinion toward the desicion to Surrender.

So you see the Manchurian invation by the USSR was decisive in Ending the war.

It was not easy for me accept this. But the facts are the facts.

As for the invation of Manchuria. It was probably the best executed invation the USSR ever planned.

It was probably a great succes but I"am sure that it was lot more bloody and brutal then they let us know.

I assume that it was probably the bloodies campaign in the Pacific war.

We will never know. But I"am 100% sure that the official numbers are rubish. And the official records of this campaing are less than factual.

Miamieagle

RAC_Pips
06-06-2005, 05:51 PM
For an excellent analysis of August Storm, by Military personnel not actually involved in the conflict, go here:

http://www-cgsc.army.mil/carl/resources/csi/glantz3/glantz3.asp

MiamiEagle
06-07-2005, 09:47 AM
Dirty-Mack thank you for that Link. Good work

I will write on my observation on this Link tommorow if possible.

I like this type of work and the interest shown on this subject.

The more you learn about World war two the more you are going to like this fine Simulator.

Thank you

Miamieagle

Aero_Shodanjo
06-07-2005, 11:24 AM
Good posts MiamiEagle & Profy_le_Troll.

While I dont consider myself as a WWII historian, but I find that I always eager to know more about it.