PDA

View Full Version : Slightly OT: Danish pilots in the Luftwaffe WWI+WWII



Tooz_69GIAP
02-28-2006, 04:23 PM
In WWII as well as the Scandinavian pilots who fought in the RAF, I know there were a few pilots from Denmark who fought in the Luftwaffe in WWII. Poul Sommer fought in the Finnish Air Force in 1939/1940, and then in JG27, I believe, until around 1943 getting about 20+ kills. Also, Sayn-Wittgensen (sp?) was the highest scoring Ju-88 pilot with 89 kills, I think, on his death in 1944.

There were a couple more, but I forget their names.

But what about WWI? Denmark was neutral, and Germany, for the most part, respected that neutrality, although they did occupy the southern portion of Denmark, and pressed around 7,000 Danes into army service. But were there any Danish pilots who flew in the Luftwaffe, or any other air force in WWI?

With the Fokker D.XXI coming into the game, I'm looking forward to flying with Danish roundels (I already have Serval's Spit skin with the red and white roundels http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif), but with the coming of the new WWI sim, I'd like to find out if there were any of my countrymen who sauntered over the trenches or not!

Anyone got any ideas???

Tooz_69GIAP
02-28-2006, 10:17 PM
Bump

woofiedog
03-01-2006, 12:45 AM
Here a little info I found... hope it helps you out.

Found this info about the book... In the Skies of Europe

Neulen, Hans Werner. (Translated from the German by Alex Vanags-Baginskis.) In the Skies of Europe: Air Forces Allied to the Luftwaffe, 1939-1945. Ramsbury, Marlborough, UK: The Crowood Press, 2000

The third part of the book, "Foreign Flying Personnel in the German Luftwaffe," brings to the reader the most obscure information on individual Norwegians, Danes, Frenchmen, Belgians, Dutch, Spaniards, Estonians, Latvians, and Russians who served as Luftwaffe pilots and aircrew. About seventy pages tell the stories of those men who chose to serve with Germany, such as seven Danish pilots who volunteered to fly for the Finnish air force in 1940 but transferred to the German air force in 1941. (Three of the Danes were killed in action.) There are also detailed stories about the other foreign volunteers, including one Latvian pilot in the Luftwaffe who strafed and bombed his family home rather than let it fall into the hands of the advancing Soviets in 1944.

Also... Link: http://jpgleize.club.fr/aces/ww2luft.htm

Rank First Name Name Country Victories Sources Detail Units Death Note Other Sources

S/Lt Safet 'Slavko' BOSKIC Bosnia 13 D.Savic & B.Ciglic 15.(Kro)/JG52, KroJGr1

Ltn Peter HORN Denmark 11 H.W.Neulen 1./JG51 +10

Oblt Albin STARC Slovenia 11 T. Polak (Kro)15./JG52 8 (Polak); 12

Sgt Josip KRANJC Slovenia 9 D.Savic & B.Ciglic (Kro)15./JG52 21/12/1943 Bf-109G ace, Kerch, 1943. KIFA. 6 (Polak)

Hptm Poul SOMMER Denmark 6 H.W.Neulen 10./JG27, JG54 3 (Neulen)

vod Albin SVAL Slovenia 3 D.Savic & B.Ciglic 15.(Kroat.)/JG52 10/03/1944 Bf-109G, Kerch, 1943. KIFA. +2 unconf.

Lt Arnold Julijs MENCIS Latvia 2 H.W.Neulen NSGr12, I./JG54, JG1 NS pilot; Kurland, Bodenplatte. POW.

Ofw Viktor MIHELCIC Slovenia 2 D.Savic & B.Ciglic 04/05/1943

Walter SMEJKAL Czechoslovakia 2 IV./JG5

Kapt Nikola CVIKIC Serbia 1 D.Savic & B.Ciglic 15.(Kroat.)/JG52

Uffz Roberts DUMPIS Latvia 1 H.W.Neulen 1./NSGr12, 5./JG4 Def. of Berlin, Oder front, 1945. 0 (Neulen)

Ltn Charles F. KERN France 1 H.W.Neulen, J.Foreman 1./NJG101, 2./NJG4 Ju-88 night fighter, 1944. POW.

Fw Harija 'Harrys' KLINTS Latvia 1 T.Wood Claims lists 2./JG1 01/01/1945 FW190, 1944. KIA Bodenplatte.

Also... Link: http://www.saunalahti.fi/fta/fineka02.htm

Early February saw some relocation of LeLv 24 units. There were six Danish lieutenants in LeLv 24 serving as volunteers (at this time the Swedish volunteer fighter unit F19 was fighting in northern Finland). The Danes had bad luck since they all were shot down and only two survived. The first Danish pilot's death occurred during a fierce aerial engagement in which Lt Rasmussen sacrificed his life for Finland. The next one was Count Friis. Lt Ulrich, flying a reinforcement fighter Gloster Gladiator was shot down over V¤rtsil¤ and broke his leg. Then on 29 February Lieutenants Kristenssen and Christenssen were shot down in aerial combat over Ruokolahti. The Danish pilots were really nice guys, good pilots and they were not afraid of anything. They would attack anytime there was an opportunity. They had the bad luck to be in the very tight spots against the superior numerical odds.

Also... Link: http://math.fce.vutbr.cz/safarik/ACES/aces1/denmark-ww2.html

DENMARK
World War II
NAME CONFIRMED PROBABLE DAMAGE UNITS AIRFORCE

Royal Air Force
Birksted, Kaj 9 2 [0+2] 5 43,331 Sq, 132 Wing RAF
B¸ge, Arne Langhoff 1 0 0 332 Sq RAF
R¸nhof, Kjeld 0 0 1 332 Sq RAF

Luftwaffe
Horn, Peter 11 0 0 JG 51 Luftwaffe
Sommer, Paul 6 0 0 JG 27,54 Luftwaffe

Finnish Air Force
Ulrich, J¶rn Juel 3 0 0 LeLv 26 FAF
Frijs, Erhard K.J. 2 [1+1] 0 0 LeLv 24 FAF
Fensboe, Morgens F. 1 0 0 LeLv 28 FAF
Kalmberg, Carl Knut 1 0 0 LeLv 26 FAF
Cristensen, Povl Balzer 1 [0+1] 0 0 LeLv 26 FAF


Links:
http://jpgleize.club.fr/aces/ww2.htm
http://www.lwag.org/index.php

Tooz_69GIAP
03-01-2006, 01:09 AM
Thanks for that info, quite useful!

Monson74
03-01-2006, 01:48 AM
Originally posted by Tooz_69GIAP:
In WWII as well as the Scandinavian pilots who fought in the RAF, I know there were a few pilots from Denmark who fought in the Luftwaffe in WWII. Poul Sommer fought in the Finnish Air Force in 1939/1940, and then in JG27, I believe, until around 1943 getting about 20+ kills. Also, Sayn-Wittgensen (sp?) was the highest scoring Ju-88 pilot with 89 kills, I think, on his death in 1944.

There were a couple more, but I forget their names.

But what about WWI? Denmark was neutral, and Germany, for the most part, respected that neutrality, although they did occupy the southern portion of Denmark, and pressed around 7,000 Danes into army service. But were there any Danish pilots who flew in the Luftwaffe, or any other air force in WWI?

With the Fokker D.XXI coming into the game, I'm looking forward to flying with Danish roundels (I already have Serval's Spit skin with the red and white roundels http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif), but with the coming of the new WWI sim, I'd like to find out if there were any of my countrymen who sauntered over the trenches or not!

Anyone got any ideas???

But the Danish Fokker won't be flyable or have I missed something? Also - I'm not 100% sure but I think only one saw action on April 9 - it was shot down a few minutes (if not seconds) after take-off from Vaerloese airfield.

Tooz_69GIAP
03-01-2006, 03:10 AM
You are right, the Danish version of the Fokker will not be flyable, but when has that ever stopped anyone from pretending??

And as far as I know, none of the Danish fighters flew in combat. They were all surrendered on the ground. I could be wrong, I dunno. But again, imagination is a great thing in these scenarios! "What if", on that Spring day in 1940, a daring and resourceful young Dane got into the air and caused havock amongst the cocky and proud Luftwaffe, and dealt them a bloody nose, eh??

RAF_Loke
03-01-2006, 03:44 AM
@ Tooz_69GIAP

I'm currently working on a project of Danish pilots and crews serving in forign Air Forces during WW2. Some info already posted on my site www.balbo-net.org (http://www.balbo-net.org) and more to come in the near future. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

One Dane did get airborne on April 9th. '40 but was shot down instantly.

woofiedog
03-01-2006, 06:46 AM
A bit more info on the Danish Military of 1940...

<span class="ev_code_YELLOW">The events on and around the 9th of April has been discussed to the present day and will probably be discussed for many years to come. But what remains is this basic fact: despite being heavily outnumbered, outgunned and lacking training the Danish soldiers took up the fight without hesitation and with great courage and determination.</span>

Link: http://www.milhist.dk/besattelsen/9april/9april.html

The Danish force:

Ground forces:
In April 1940 the Danish Army totalled about 14.500 soldiers of which 8000 were recruits. They were divided into the Zealand Division and the Jutland Division which totalled 8; infantry, 2 cavalry and 3 artillery regiments. About 2000 men were stationed in southern Jutland.

Airforce:
The Airforce was divided into the Marine Airforce the Army Airforce and an air trainingschool.

Marine Airforce (S¸v¦rnets Flyvetropper):
13 Heinkel H.E.8 reconnaissance planes, 2 Hawker Dantorp torpedo planes, 8 Hawker Nimrod fighterbombers, 2 De Havilland Moth (trainers), 2 Avro Tutors (trainers), 1 Dornier DO J/III Wal

Danish soldiers

Army Airforce (H¦rens Flyvetropper):
1st squadron (Sj¦llanske Flyveafdeling) 13 Gloster Gauntlet fighters
2nd squadron (Jydske Flyverafdeling) 7 Fokker D XXI fighter, 3 Fokker D V M/26 recon planes
3rd Squadron (Sj¦llanske Flyveafdeling) 9 Fokker C V M/33 recon, 2 I R recon
5th Squadron (Jydske Flyverafdeling) 12 III R recon, 2 I R recon

Air trainingschool:
12 Tiger Moth, 5 Fokker C I, 1 III S

The Danish fleet:
The Danish fleet consisted of 2 coastal defence ships (Niels Juel, Peder Skram), 6 torpedo boats (Laxen, Hvalen, Glenten, H¸gen, Dragen, Hoegen), 7 submarines, 3 mine layers, 9 mine sweepers and 4 inspection ships. All except the submarines were rather old.

The defence of the coast was under the command of the Danish Navy and was composed of 8 fortresses and about 100 guns.

http://www.milhist.dk/besattelsen/9april/vaerlose.jpg
<span class="ev_code_YELLOW">Vaerlose after the attack.</span>

At 5:45 am 2 squadrons of Messerschmidt Me 110 from I/ZG 1 attacked Vaerloese airfield.
Commander of I/ZG1 Wolfgang Falck:

"I could see our target, the main airfield on the outskirts of Copenhagen. On the tarmac below were 10 old high wing Fokker reconnaissance aircraft and about two dozen Fokker D-21 fighters lined up in the morning sun, and they all seemed to be warming up. If they got into the air we would have our hands full - dog-fighting with a D-21 at low altitude would be no mean task. Just then I spotted one of the recce's taking off. As I went for the Fokker, now about 100 meters in the air, the others began strafing the now taxiing fighters as ground fire opened up on us. Firing both my cannon and Mg€s, the recce burst into flames and fell back to the ground as I pulled up. I banked around and saw fire and smoke billowing up from the burning aircraft on the ground."

Freycinet
03-01-2006, 10:57 AM
Denmark was the only country to have an ace on both the allied and axis side... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

beefy1966
03-01-2006, 11:03 AM
tooz,du har fra dansk ? but currently living in gods own country http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

beefy1966
03-01-2006, 11:05 AM
woofie dog , thats the danes for you , they are mad , in a nice way http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Tooz_69GIAP
03-06-2006, 07:25 PM
Cool stuff!! I have been intending to do some kind of campaign series, or something using Danes as the basis for the missions for some time now.

I always thought it would be cool, because of the fact Danes served with various airforces in WWII, to represent most of them, both Axis and Allied pilots.

Heliopause
03-08-2006, 12:56 PM
Just some pics..

From a book I have.
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b334/PauseHelio/Fokkerdeens.jpg

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b334/PauseHelio/Scannen0002.jpg


From internet
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b334/PauseHelio/d21_00317_1g.jpg

msalama
03-08-2006, 01:29 PM
Denmark was neutral, and Germany, for the most part, respected that neutrality, although they did occupy the southern portion of Denmark, and pressed around 7,000 Danes into army service.

Sorry to interrupt, but just as an aside:

Germany occupied the whole of Denmark, so they most certainly didn't respect Denmark's neutrality. They did respect Denmark's sovereignty to a point, however, letting Danes have a nominal government, but repressive measures were nevertheless increased from 1943 on.

That's IIRC, mindja... anyone?

PS. A Wikipedia article concerning the occupation here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_Denmark).

Retrofish
03-08-2006, 01:34 PM
Originally posted by msalama:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Denmark was neutral, and Germany, for the most part, respected that neutrality, although they did occupy the southern portion of Denmark, and pressed around 7,000 Danes into army service.

Sorry to interrupt, but just as an aside:

Germany occupied the whole of Denmark, so they most certainly didn't respect Denmark's neutrality. They did respect Denmark's sovereignty to a point, however, letting Danes have a nominal government, but repressive measures were nevertheless increased from 1943 on.

That's IIRC, mindja... anyone? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

He meant during WW1.

All of Denmark was occupied during WW2 yes.

msalama
03-08-2006, 01:37 PM
He meant during WW1.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif Sorry, my bad. Should've read his post a bit more carefully...

zugfuhrer
03-08-2006, 02:03 PM
There where many countries that got aces on both sides, Romania, Bulgaria and others.

One Romanian? ace shoot down both FW-190 and P-51:s.

I dont have the details about country and name on my mind, but I can check it up. Please help me if someone got details.

Another sparsly known fact is that many occupied countries got many soldiers that fought on the German side in Russia, some countries got more soldiers for than against Germany.

French aviation factories where got high skilled workers and produced many details to LW, especially parts to FW-190, and the owners got rich by the affairs.

France used the FW-190 and the Panther tank in their own forces after the war.(I havnt the source in my mind so I need help to verify this).

Spain not occupied but still got at least a division in Russia.

Denmark got many soldiers in Waffen SS division Nordland.

http://www.feldgrau.com/ssdivs.html

The Danish soldiers swore to fight for Germany against the Soviet union, not against other allies, as my source tells me.

Wolfred
03-08-2006, 02:46 PM
Jeg er dybt imponeret

Im very impressed

Jeg m¥ f¥ fat i nogle Danske markings til min
spitfire.

Fae-Wolfred

Tooz_69GIAP
03-08-2006, 04:11 PM
Originally posted by Wolfred:
Jeg er dybt imponeret

Im very impressed

Jeg m¥ f¥ fat i nogle Danske markings til min
spitfire.

Fae-Wolfred

I can send you Serval's RDAF Spit skin, if you like?

And as an aside, my father's uncle fought in the Danish SS Division on the eastern front (I don't know any details of his service though), and my mother's grandfather was a resistance fighter in Denmark, for which he spent two years in a german prison camp.

Here are some of the recruitment posters used in occupied countries:

http://www.baseclass.modulweb.dk/69giap/fileadmin/69_giap_private/69_giap_public/images/gallery_enemy/Nazi_Poster_0011.jpg

http://www.baseclass.modulweb.dk/69giap/fileadmin/69_giap_private/69_giap_public/images/gallery_enemy/Nazi_Poster_0017.jpg

http://www.baseclass.modulweb.dk/69giap/fileadmin/69_giap_private/69_giap_public/images/gallery_enemy/Nederlanders__.jpg

Tooz_69GIAP
03-09-2006, 05:06 PM
Click here to download Serval's RDAF Spitfire skin. (http://www.baseclass.modulweb.dk/69giap/fileadmin/69_giap_private/69_giap_public/Non-Squadron_Shared_Skins/Serval_s_RDAF_Spitfire_HF.IXe_404.bmp)

I think this is a post war scheme, as the Air Force bought a bunch of Spits, and flew them until 1950 or so, I believe(?).

It's a nice skin. It's made for the Spit H.F. Mk.IXe, but it fits nicely onto all versions of the Spit except the Mk.Vc, Mk.VIII and Seafire's.

RAF_Loke
03-10-2006, 12:50 AM
Yes it's a post war skin.
Denmark used Spitfires from 1947 till 1950 (I think it was).
This one is RDAF Spitfire H.F.IXe, 4e Eskadrille, 1950.
The skin is made on my request and from my references