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View Full Version : Add a G meter to the speedbar



XyZspineZyX
08-21-2003, 07:49 PM
Since we have no way to feel how many Gs we are pulling while flying the sim could there be the option to get a G reading from the speedbar to compensate for this lack of physical G input?

Make it an option so those that think that harder == real don't get upset.

Has this been brought up to Oleg before?

Thanks,


Snoop Baron

XyZspineZyX
08-21-2003, 07:49 PM
Since we have no way to feel how many Gs we are pulling while flying the sim could there be the option to get a G reading from the speedbar to compensate for this lack of physical G input?

Make it an option so those that think that harder == real don't get upset.

Has this been brought up to Oleg before?

Thanks,


Snoop Baron

XyZspineZyX
08-21-2003, 09:32 PM
the idea has merit. keep it an option though fer sure.

"diplomacy is saying 'good doggie' until you can find a really BIG rock."

XyZspineZyX
08-21-2003, 10:12 PM
An excellent suggestion! I'm all for it!

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XyZspineZyX
08-21-2003, 10:24 PM
Altho I would Like a G-indicator I dont think they will add one simply because they didnt have them in ww2 too my knoledge

Also because of the fact that ive asked for other options
such as a selectable Color options for the Gun Sight & was told that this would be not holding to realism

There bolth good ideas but because of reality we probly wont get either altho I wouldnt mind having them /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

<center><FONT COLOR="white">ӚFJ-M œ R D ˜ ӡ[/i]</font>

<center> http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_109_1059752328.jpg </center>

<center><FONT COLOR="white">The "Ace Edge"(c).
With my incremental trim
I am actually able to turn so quickly that, I never turn at all.
In Fact the Planet Earth rotates around the Axis of My PC, thus giving me the optimum turn rate and insuring that you
the bandit are promptly fraged !!!
In memory Of Ray R.I.P.[/i]</font>

XyZspineZyX
08-22-2003, 02:26 AM
The P-47 has a G meter on the dash.

XyZspineZyX
08-22-2003, 03:19 AM
AFJ_Murdoc wrote:
- Altho I would Like a G-indicator I dont think they
- will add one simply because they didnt have them in
- ww2 too my knoledge
-
You know what? They didn't have a speed bar, either!

A G meter is used to compensate for the fact we don't feel G's, which is very important. For example you want to accelerate as quickly as possible you'd "unload" the aircraft (going 0 G). Without feeling G's or a G meter this is not possible.

I remember to have proposed this months ago.... It's not likely we'll have it.

Hunter82
08-22-2003, 03:20 AM
which is why alot of us play without it /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif We also don't like piper cub gauges in our cockpits either /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

HomeboyWu wrote:
-
- AFJ_Murdoc wrote:
-- Altho I would Like a G-indicator I dont think they
-- will add one simply because they didnt have them in
-- ww2 too my knoledge
--
- You know what? They didn't have a speed bar, either!
-
- A G meter is used to compensate for the fact we
- don't feel G's, which is very important. For example
- you want to accelerate as quickly as possible you'd
- "unload" the aircraft (going 0 G). Without feeling
- G's or a G meter this is not possible.
-
- I remember to have proposed this months ago.... It's
- not likely we'll have it.
-
-



<center><FONT COLOR="white">[/i]</FONT>
<center><FONT COLOR="white">Hunter82 wrote:
"I did not have technical relations with that question"
[/i]</FONT>
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XyZspineZyX
08-22-2003, 03:34 AM
Hunter82 wrote:
- which is why alot of us play without it /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif We also don't like piper cub
- gauges in our cockpits either /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
Of course, make it an option. I don't use speed bars, either. Happy?

Hunter82
08-22-2003, 03:38 AM
nope...the more arcade it gets the further away it becomes from the sim it is. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

<center><FONT COLOR="white">[/i]</FONT>
<center><FONT COLOR="white">Hunter82 wrote:
"I did not have technical relations with that question"
[/i]</FONT>
<center> Mudmovers (http://www.mudmovers.com/) </center>

XyZspineZyX
08-22-2003, 04:26 AM
Hunter if you play without the speedbar you can still read the speed dials. But, unless you have some sort of G simulation gear we don't know about there is no way to get the sort of physical G feedback a FULL REAL pilot actually had. And I mean a full real pilot, as one that actually flew in WWII and not someone who believes FB "full real" is really full real.



Snoop Baron

XyZspineZyX
08-22-2003, 04:32 AM
I would argue that adding a G meter would make the sim closer to reality. As it more closely simulates the feel for G that *real* pilots had compared to no G meter. So this would make the game less of an aracade.

With your line of thinking Oleg should remove the chatbar as real pilots didn't have keyboards. And he should remove the hat switch, mouse look, and padlock real pilots used their heads to look around.

Btw. I usualy fly "full real" when I play offline (don't even use padlock as I have TrackIR and love it). But I think it is childish to look down upon people who use things like speedbar or relaxed flight models for what ever reasons they might have. Anyways that is another topic. My point here is that a G meter would be closer to "full real" than none at all.


Snoop Baron

XyZspineZyX
08-22-2003, 08:51 AM
Bump

XyZspineZyX
08-22-2003, 08:54 AM
the black fade-out is G-meter enough./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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XyZspineZyX
08-22-2003, 09:10 AM
when I saw the title, I was ready to get in and say NO !

But some arguments are very valid.

The first thing you feel in a plane are G forces. Those you never experience behind monitor. So yes, I am all for adding a G bar of some sort, something which would visually clue you of how many Gs you are pulling. That would have no relation to current SPD/ALT/HDG display, as this really is unrealistic.

G bar would actually add to the realism, IMO.

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XyZspineZyX
08-22-2003, 09:50 AM
Snoop_Baron wrote:
- Hunter if you play without the speedbar you can
- still read the speed dials. But, unless you have
- some sort of G simulation gear we don't know about
- there is no way to get the sort of physical G
- feedback a FULL REAL pilot actually had.


IMO a Real Pilot can feal the G But he canot calculate with precision the Unloded G state 0.00 G he might get close but without a G indicator he couldnt find The 0-G State

This is not a Jet Fighter Sim where your going to have a G indicator & be able to view it & make the G load on perfect 0 so you can attain the fastest stick foward dive if your reding out your in Negative G if you pratice enough you can find close to 0 G in FB

Try again....

<center><FONT COLOR="white">ӚFJ-M œ R D ˜ ӡ[/i]</font>

<center> http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_109_1059752328.jpg </center>

<center><FONT COLOR="white">The "Ace Edge"(c).
With my incremental trim
I am actually able to turn so quickly that, I never turn at all.
In Fact the Planet Earth rotates around the Axis of My PC, thus giving me the optimum turn rate and insuring that you
the bandit are promptly fraged !!!
In memory Of Ray R.I.P.[/i]</font>

XyZspineZyX
08-22-2003, 10:01 AM
Hristos wrote:
- when I saw the title, I was ready to get in and say
- NO !
-
- But some arguments are very valid.
-
- The first thing you feel in a plane are G forces.
- Those you never experience behind monitor. So yes, I
- am all for adding a G bar of some sort, something
- which would visually clue you of how many Gs you are
- pulling. That would have no relation to current
- SPD/ALT/HDG display, as this really is unrealistic.
-
- G bar would actually add to the realism, IMO.
-

Ok If they Give you guys a G meter I want some semitransparent color options for the Crosshair In & out of the Pit....

This is the same Idea It would Improve the game in a maner of speaking but would also add some bit of Non Reality

Personaly I HATE the new OrangeYellow crosshair color & I much Prefer the Old Il2 Style Crosshair....

Also The addition of a G indicator, would make for a certain disparigy between players who know what to do with a G indicator and thoes who dont


<center><FONT COLOR="white">ӚFJ-M œ R D ˜ ӡ[/i]</font>

<center> http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_109_1059752328.jpg </center>

<center><FONT COLOR="white">The "Ace Edge"(c).
With my incremental trim
I am actually able to turn so quickly that, I never turn at all.
In Fact the Planet Earth rotates around the Axis of My PC, thus giving me the optimum turn rate and insuring that you
the bandit are promptly fraged !!!
In memory Of Ray R.I.P.[/i]</font>

XyZspineZyX
08-22-2003, 10:06 AM
AFJ_Murdoc wrote:
- IMO a Real Pilot can feal the G But he canot
- calculate with precision the Unloded G state 0.00 G
- he might get close but without a G indicator he
- couldnt find The 0-G State
-
So he cannot calculate with precision to 0.00, how about 0.0? How about 0? Are you a real pilot? Can you back up what you say on human G precision with data?

Well I tell you I'm REAL ELEVATOR RIDER. None of the elevators accelerated upwards/ downwards at more than 1G. How do I know? If elevators go up at more than 1G then it'll feel like I have my girlfriend on my back. If elevators go down at more than 1G I'll leave the ground. So, as a REAL ELEVATOR RIDER, I tell you humans can tell 0G, maybe not 0.0G or 0.00G, but at least 0G.

XyZspineZyX
08-22-2003, 11:11 AM
I'm not a real pilot, let a lone a combat pilot who has had the experience to feel a wide range of Gs, but this is a simple problem to fix. Ask some real pilots how well they can read Gs by feel and then make the G meter as fuzzy/accurate.

Seems like after a while you should be able to get a good feel for the all important zero G and a decent feel for intervals of G. But that is all a hunch. If it that is to accurate just make add a random % error (with in a particular range 1-5%). Problem solved.


Snoop Baron

XyZspineZyX
08-22-2003, 11:17 AM
I have no problem with your crosshair technique as long as it is an option.

But, like I said I believe adding some sort of G meter would actualy make the game more realistic as real pilots did have a G meter (their body) and we do not (yet).

- Also The addition of a G indicator, would make for a
- certain disparigy between players who know what to
- do with a G indicator and thoes who dont

I'm sorry but this is a poor argument. One could say the same thing about many other features in the game. "The addition of prop pitch, would make for a certain disparity between players who know what to do with prop pitch and those who don't."

I think the only valid point to consider is how accurate the G meter should be. I love to hear some professional opinions on that.

Oh and tell me more about this P47 G meter??

Regards,

Snoop Baron

XyZspineZyX
08-22-2003, 11:54 AM
Good idea, and useful training tool, hope Oleg considers it.

============================
When it comes to testing new aircraft or determining maximum performance, pilots like to talk about "pushing the envelope." They're talking about a two dimensional model: the bottom is zero altitude, the ground; the left is zero speed; the top is max altitude; and the right, maximum velocity, of course. So, the pilots are pushing that upper-right-hand corner of the envelope. What everybody tries not to dwell on is that that's where the postage gets canceled, too.

XyZspineZyX
08-22-2003, 12:22 PM
a simple bar on bottom of the screen would do

<center>http://easyweb.globalnet.hr/easyweb/users/ntomlino/uploads/sig.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-22-2003, 03:14 PM
AFJ_Murdoc wrote:
- IMO a Real Pilot can feal the G But he canot
- calculate with precision the Unloded G state 0.00 G
- he might get close but without a G indicator he
- couldnt find The 0-G State

Sheesh... of course you will never be able to find it spot-on by feel. But close enough to get the benefits. Probably so close that most G-meters would indeed read zero, for all you can see.

Good fun and not hard.

Cheers,
Fred

"If we are an arrogant nation, they will resent us. If we are a humble nation, but strong, they will welcome us."
- George W. Bush, during his campaign. He should have listened...

(Quote brought back by popular demand - RBJ missed it so much he mailed me about it)

XyZspineZyX
08-22-2003, 06:59 PM
There ARE clues to how many G´s you are pulling, the whole cockpit moves or actually your virtual head moves as you pull the stick...

Though I agree that this is an issue, not sure a G-meter would be what I would go for though...


Something I think is more annoying is the instruments hidden be the stick on some planes, the NOT simulated fuel gauges on some planes, the "NO SEE" compasses on some planes etc...etc...so on and so fourth...

XyZspineZyX
08-22-2003, 07:53 PM
Instead of some G force number or bar, why not just add a small rectangle next to existing instruments? The inside of rectangle would be normally transparent, but during turns the colour would change just like the blackout effect works when flying with cockpit on. Little need for the developers to create new instruments and no need for pilots to figure out how the G force indicator works, because it would work exactly the same way as what we already have, except it wouldn't darken the whole display, just a small part of it.

XyZspineZyX
08-22-2003, 10:32 PM
Continuing the theme of the thread, lets use the speedbar to provide information that a real pilot gets which cannot be simulated, i.e.

G-forces
Movement within peripheral vision (a simple alert, if a plane or tracer flash past while you look the other way)
Wounds
Tiredness? Controls lag a bit when you've been flying patrols over Crimea for 5 hours, or been on continous combat readyness for the past month, vision a bit blurred, but you become more alert when actually fighting, or open the canopy /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Any other ideas?


See, I can do other things than post mindless spam or subliminal evangelism.


Philips CDRW

Posting vacuous messages since 2002

XyZspineZyX
08-22-2003, 11:06 PM
Snoop_Baron wrote:
- Since we have no way to feel how many Gs we are
- pulling while flying the sim could there be the
- option to get a G reading from the speedbar to
- compensate for this lack of physical G input?

I would be down with that! But, I would prefer a G BAR over a G NUMBER being displayed. Much like modern huds do now.. well actually they have both. Note, dont want it put on our WWII gun sight area.. just a little colored bar along the bottom or one side... where the middle is 1g and left/up is negative (RED) and right/down is positive (BLUE)

- Make it an option so those that think that harder ==
- real don't get upset.

Yes the masikits might get upset! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

- Has this been brought up to Oleg before?

many.. MANY Oh so M A N Y times! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif



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XyZspineZyX
08-22-2003, 11:07 PM
Snoop_Baron wrote:
- I would argue that adding a G meter would make the
- sim closer to reality. As it more closely simulates
- the feel for G that *real* pilots had compared to no
- G meter. So this would make the game less of an
- aracade.

AGREE 100%!!!!!



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XyZspineZyX
08-22-2003, 11:19 PM
A VERY simple way to get around all this "its not what real pilots have" argument, is to make it an OPTION. one that could be turned of for anyone who doesnt want to use it. just like the speed bar, or the mini map icons, or complex engine managment, or a million other things. FB can be almost turned into an arcade game if you turn off all the realistic stuff.

"diplomacy is saying 'good doggie' until you can find a really BIG rock."