View Full Version : Some old planes...

02-29-2008, 11:16 AM
...I saw in Paris.
Spending a few days in the French capital I just had to look at these kites!
Amazing to see originals like these up close (museum Art et Metiers)

Ader Avion III 1897.

Its steam-engine!



Brequet R.U1 No.40


REP type A. Plane and engine designed by Robert Esnault-Pelterie.


02-29-2008, 11:35 AM
Thanks, really nice crates! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

02-29-2008, 01:28 PM
Did any of those ever fly?

02-29-2008, 01:40 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif Top secret prototypes for the newest generation of French fighters, be sure... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

(Apologies to the French visitors!) http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/halo.gif

02-29-2008, 01:50 PM
Originally posted by Urufu_Shinjiro:
Did any of those ever fly?


I think the steam powered 'bat' flew, but it only flew in a straight line, and doesn't qualify as 'controlled flight' - that was achieved by the Wright Brothers, who were able to turn their aircraft in the air: "The first flight was attempted on 14 October (1897) and most sources agree ended almost immediately in a crash without ever leaving the ground. Late in his life, Ader would claim that there had been a flight of 100 m (328 ft) on this day, and said he had two witnesses to confirm it."


03-01-2008, 11:01 AM
Did any of those ever fly?

-The Ader Avion III most likely not, but the designer sure tried.
-The Breguet was a succesful design (1912). France ordered 32, Britain 5, Italy 3 and Sweden 1 (as the B2). During the first months of WW1 the plane was still used by an Escadrille.
-REP was not a succesfull design, it made 5 jumps during its test-period. (the longest was 600 meters on november 16th 1907).

-I should not forget the Bleriot XI. This is the original plane that crossed the channel on July 25th 1909.



03-01-2008, 10:01 PM
I love that kind of stuff. Thanks very much for posting http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

03-01-2008, 10:33 PM
Extremely Mint photos of those Birds... you must of had a great trip.

Thank's for sharing. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

03-02-2008, 10:03 AM
It seems it did fly!!
More on an earlier version of Eder's 'Bat':


" On October 9, 1890 Ader attempted a flight of the Éole, which succeeded in taking off and flying a distance of approximately 50m. This was the first self-propelled flight in history, 13 years before the Wright Brothers."

"...Ader greatly exaggerated his achievements in later life. Nonetheless, Ader's October 9, 1890 flight of the Éole remains relatively undisputed..."

03-02-2008, 10:16 AM
Interesting information from the web - List of early flying machines:


George Cayley: Built an early glider. "During some point prior to 1849 he designed and built a triplane powered with 'flappers' in which an unknown ten-year-old boy flew. Later.... he developed a larger scale glider (also probably fitted with 'flappers') which flew across Brompton Dale in 1853:


Gustave Whitehead - "Whitehead claimed two spectacular flights on January 17, 1902 in his improved Number 22, with a 40 Horsepower (30 kilowatt) motor instead of the 20 hp (15 kW) in the Number 21 aircraft and aluminium instead of bamboo. In two published letters that he wrote to American Inventor magazine, he said the flights took place over Long Island Sound and covered distances of about two miles (3 kilometers) and seven mi (11 km) at heights up to 200 ft (61 m), ending with safe landings in the water by the boat-like fuselage. Whitehead said he tried the propeller differential speed system and the "rudder" on the second flight and they worked well for making a big circle and a return to shore where his helpers waited. He expressed pride in the accomplishment: "...as I successfully returned to my starting place with a machine hithero untried and heavier than air, I consider the trip quite a success. To my knowledge it is the first of its kind":


03-02-2008, 02:19 PM
Thanks !! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif LoL!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Glad picture!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

03-02-2008, 03:04 PM
-The Ader Avion III most likely not, but the designer sure tried.

Well the militaries report declassified around 1996 (IIRC ) said 300m


Originally posted by major_setback:

Alphonse Pénaud (http://aerostories.free.fr/precurseurs/penaud/page2.html)

03-02-2008, 03:19 PM
Originally posted by Urufu_Shinjiro:
Did any of those ever fly?

Exactly what I was going to ask

03-03-2008, 10:58 AM
Harry, is the Satory drawing part of the general Mensier file?
Declassified around 1996, can it be found on the internet? Sounds interesting.

03-03-2008, 11:48 AM
Originally posted by Heliopause:
Harry, is the Satory drawing part of the general Mensier file?
Declassified around 1996, can it be found on the internet? Sounds interesting.

The archive are public, but I must admit that I have no idea where they are keept.

You should try to ask on the french forum (even in english )

03-03-2008, 12:48 PM
that french forum could work, thanks for the hint.

03-17-2008, 03:58 AM
Here's a museum ofearly gliders etc. Click on the picture in the centre of the page for a quick time panorama view:



03-17-2008, 05:21 AM
Those look like aircraft from that crazy cartoon with the crazy smiling dog.

03-17-2008, 05:31 AM
Wonderful, thanks!

That reminds me - has anyone heard the (true) story about the guy from California, some years ago, who decided to go flying: He attached several hundred helium balloons to a garden chair and took an air pistol to shoot the balloons so he could descend again! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

After some near misses by jetliners the guy was promptly arrested when he finally came back down to earth http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

03-17-2008, 10:56 AM
The Seimens torpedo Glider from WWI era:



"The wire-guided flying missile from Siemens. It was not flown into the target, but could have been, according to Alex Imrie and that at a suitable position and height a special signal caused the airframe components to detach from the torpedo, which then entered the water and continued towards its ship target in the usual manner of a ordinary torpedo.

Siemens Schucker Werke (SSW) was already busy with remote controlled boats (the Fernlenkboote) at the time, and had some experience into this domain. It was Dr. Wilhelm von Siemens who suggested the use of remote controlled glide bombs about October 1914. Flight testing was done under supervision of Dipl. Ing. Dorner from January 1915 on. They used several types during their experiments, biplane and monoplane gliders in which a torpedo was fitted. Carriers used for the test were for more Z XII, L35 and PL 25. The real last test flight was done on 2nd August 1918. However test failed.

It was planned to use the R VIII bomber plane as carrier-craft against the end of WWI, but the armistice stopped the project."

03-17-2008, 11:04 AM
1916 Curtiss-Goupil Duck

"Built in Buffalo, the Duck was first tried at Hammondsport on the old Langley floats. Barely able to hop off the water with their weight, it was shipped to Newport News, fitted with wheel undercarriage, and flew successfully on 19 January, 1917."



link (http://images.google.se/imgres?imgurl=http://warandgame.files.wordpress.com/2007/09/dorniertwenfouraussie.jpg&imgrefurl=http://warandgame.wordpress.com/2007/09/23/&h=402&w=977&sz=204&hl=sv&start=53&um=1&tbnid=U27Jm-bB2IOltM:&tbnh=61&tbnw=149&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dstrange%2Bcargo%2Baircraft%26start%3D 36%26ndsp%3D18%26um%3D1%26hl%3Dsv%26sa%3DN)

03-19-2008, 12:44 PM
That duck looks amazing!

03-20-2008, 10:10 PM

A Travel Air 2000 biplane made the world's first piloted flight under steam power over Oakland, California, on 12 April 1933.
The strangest feature of the flight was its relative silence; spectators on the ground could hear the pilot when he called to them from mid-air.
The aircraft, piloted by William Besler, had been fitted with a two-cylinder, 150 hp reciprocating engine.

The Besler Steam Plane (http://www.airbornegrafix.com/HistoricAircraft/ThingsWings/Besler.htm)

03-20-2008, 11:37 PM
OK enough......where the heck is KOTS!!!!!

03-21-2008, 10:15 AM
Woofiedog..nice find!

03-22-2008, 03:26 PM
The Besler Travel Air (Beechcraft)2000 biplane
was a wonderful idea. But the limitations of steam power
rendered it impratical.

Problem was that the condenser could not condense
the waste steam back to water fast enough.
A totally reliable and viable aircraft
was doomed by needing a condenser
nearly as large as the aircraft.
They ran out of water before coming close to running out of fuel every time....

But it did prove one important point.
A steam aircraft could fly and do it reliably.