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Qbeesh800
03-14-2005, 08:36 AM
Sorry guys but i must ask again about program that allows to put swazies on the planes. Where can i find it?

Beaufort-RAF
03-14-2005, 09:13 AM
IL2 Stab (http://www.users.on.net/%7Emjtm/IL-2/)

Dexmeister
03-14-2005, 10:08 AM
What about the KKK logo? Do people use IL2 Stab, or just Photoshop it on directly?

BSS_Goat
03-14-2005, 10:19 AM
Dex you kill me http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

jarink
03-14-2005, 09:16 PM
I'd recommend IL-2 MAT Manager.
It not only allows for the historical use of swastikas on German a/c, but does an excellent job of making all the national markings look better.
http://www.acesartwork.co.uk/

BPLIzard
03-14-2005, 11:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dexmeister:
What about the KKK logo? Do people use IL2 Stab, or just Photoshop it on directly? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Look what you've done! You made me spew coffee on my monitor.

MajorBloodnok
03-15-2005, 02:59 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dexmeister:
What about the KKK logo? Do people use IL2 Stab, or just Photoshop it on directly? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>It's a lynchin' ! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

xrvjorn
03-15-2005, 06:56 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dexmeister:
What about the KKK logo? Do people use IL2 Stab, or just Photoshop it on directly? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

KKK pilots were shortlived. Used to wearing bedsheets, they thought the parachute was a sort of uniform, so they unpacked it and wrapped it around themselves. When flying, they usually got tangled up in the chute lines and lost control of their aircraft.

Qbeesh800
03-15-2005, 08:15 AM
Thanks mates.
I study archeology in the Uniwersity of Warsaw and i just like when everything is historicaly correct
I'm from Poland and this means i'm not a great fan of mr. H. I'm just great fan of german war machines. Thanks again.


"Son, fly at low speed and at low altitude" said polish
mother to her son, pilot of p.23 Kara┼"║ in the september of 1939.

VF51_Flatspin
03-15-2005, 11:17 AM
Jeez, is this funny? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

Qbeesh800
03-15-2005, 03:22 PM
This wasn't supposed to be funny.
This is just anecdote from the beginning of the war. Anecdotes very rarely are funny. This isn't funny since we had to fight on both fronts german and russian without any help from our "allies".

Flydutch
03-15-2005, 04:06 PM
Wel Qbeesh,
I believe you! altough it is funny that you rever to the swastika's and Hitler as "Swazies" and "Mr. H" while you do want the Luftwaffe to sport the Nazi Symbol.
Or where you revering to people from Zwasiland!?

(I don't like Hitler either but do sport Swastika's on my Aircraft skins, I Don't like the war crimes commited under the Imperial Japanese war Flag either! but nobody seem to care for the effect this has on survivors of the Japanese Imperial Prison camps!???)

sulla04
03-15-2005, 04:40 PM
The imperial japanese symbols were in place long before WW2,so I think few people would equate this with the nazi symbols.Many people in the US equate the "stars and bars" with slavery,yet used in a historical content it doesn't seem to make to much of a fuss here.The US army was neck deep in the genocide of the native american race,yet again no one finds it offensive on the planes.The english armed forces slaughtered and ruined their fair share of civilizations.The allies in WW2 do at least have some pluses against their debits.One could say that the Mickey mouse on Gallands plane should now be off limits because of his use of it.I myself have some repros of German and Russian military medals from WW2 and would not buy any that did not look "historical".One mans ceiling is another mans floor.Any symbol used in a historical way should not be illegal.However if the symbol is being used for the sole purpose of hate and intimidation then naturally it and they who use it belong in the refuse.They just had a problem on SimHq with a neonazi.Just my 2 cents.

JunkoIfurita
03-15-2005, 05:16 PM
Sulla, you're right on the money.

It's all in the context and perspective in which signs and symbols are used.

To take that to it's extremes - you can find plusses and minuses in any nation's history. For example, Hitler was VERY good for the German economy. (Before I get flak for this, this is the same reason we're stuck with John Howard in Australia. He may be a product of the white-Australia policy, but he's making the businesses money.)

If the Axis powers had won the war, I imagine the only things we'd hear about the atrocities committed against the Jews (and Muslims, and everyone else in that area who wasn't 'right for the species'), would be in underground novels (probably supressed...it was fascism after all) - like 'The Grasshopper Lies Lightly' from Phillip K Dicks 'The Man in the High Castle'.

We of the 'free world' style ourselves as a democracy, but we forget the atrocities committed by our own nations just as easily. I'd never heard of the firebombing of Dresden before I read Vonnegut's 'Slaughterhouse 5'. A worse atrocity in one day, with a higher civilian body count than the A-bomb (although the long term effects of the radiation...) Perhaps my history was lacking - but then, they never taught us about the mass genocide against the Australian Aboriginals in high school, either. Perhaps the best tribute to democracy we have is that Authors like Vonnegut can be published and read without supression.

The planes that firebombed Dresden carried the USAAF logo, but I'm not going to pretend that it carries a stigma because of it. I wasn't at Dresden. Neither was I in a concentration camp. I have no personal attachment to either side of the war, except perhaps an emotional one - I believe that attrocities are inexcusable on any side, but also that they are inevitable.

Sorry for getting off topic. The point is, if I fly a Luftwaffe plane with swastikas on the tail, its because I am playing a historical game in which the marking played a part. If I fly an American bomber with USAAF logos, I'm doing the same. Nothing more, nothing less - I don't attach any connotations to it...I fly because I love to fly. I fly combat sims because I like the skill involved. I never, ever want to fly combat missions in reality.

Whether or not people around here share my particular views, I believe the vast majority of people who play this game have a solid grasp of the partition between a historically believable, enjoyable game and the painful, hard reality of war.

We know we're playing a game - we want the game to be as realistic as possible, but that doesn't mean we want it to be any more than a game.

-Rant over...

Qbeesh800
03-15-2005, 05:34 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JunkoIfurita:

Sorry for getting off topic. The point is, if I fly a Luftwaffe plane with swastikas on the tail, its because I am playing a historical game in which the marking played a part. If I fly an American bomber with USAAF logos, I'm doing the same. Nothing more, nothing less - I don't attach any connotations to it...I fly because I love to fly. I fly combat sims because I like the skill involved. I never, ever want to fly combat missions in reality.

Whether or not people around here share my particular views, I believe the vast majority of people who play this game have a solid grasp of the partition between a historically believable, enjoyable game and the painful, hard reality of war.

We know we're playing a game - we want the game to be as realistic as possible, but that doesn't mean we want it to be any more than a game.

... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think this ends the discussion.
Wise words. I'm signing this with my both hands.

Philipscdrw
03-15-2005, 08:39 PM
The USAAF was involved too? I knew the RAF firebombed Dresden - it is the most horrific single war crime we (the UK) committed in WW2. I'm proud of the RAF, the crews and pilots and support personnel, but 'Bomber' Harris, and Churchill, who ordered the 'firebomb civilians' tactics, were war criminals in my judgement... Churchill saved the UK from the Nazi party, but that doesn't justify his ordering of a strategy to firebomb the German civilian population deliberately. But the strategy and the choice of target is nothing to do with the airmen or the aircraft manufacturer, so I've got no problem with re-living their experiences through a computer game.

IMO, with the 20/20 vision of hindsight, all the Allied strategic forces should have concentrated on one or two specific industries to pulverise - oil, ball-bearings, aluminium refineries, cordite... that would cripple the German military machine.