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XyZspineZyX
10-04-2003, 11:23 AM
How does FB do when compared to real flying.If I climbed into the cockpit of a real A8 could I take off and fly the beast?

XyZspineZyX
10-04-2003, 11:23 AM
How does FB do when compared to real flying.If I climbed into the cockpit of a real A8 could I take off and fly the beast?

XyZspineZyX
10-04-2003, 11:43 AM
Certainly not. You wouldn't even be able to start the engine (FB's startup sequence is GREATLY simplified). It's the best we have, but it's certainly not like the real thing.

Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.

XyZspineZyX
10-04-2003, 11:46 AM
We don´t even have to climb into a cockpit,wonder if we even would managed that /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_113_1064841282.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-04-2003, 11:50 AM
loweyes wrote:
- How does FB do when compared to real flying.If I
- climbed into the cockpit of a real A8 could I take
- off and fly the beast?

No, I suggest you get some tail dragger time before you attempt flying a warbird.

http://members.chello.se/unni/GK-2.JPG


'When it comes to aircombat, I'd rather be lucky than good any day!'

XyZspineZyX
10-04-2003, 12:38 PM
loweyes wrote:
- How does FB do when compared to real flying.If I
- climbed into the cockpit of a real A8 could I take
- off and fly the beast?


I had the chance to fly a WWII T6 trainer once.
Allthough I was not permitted to take off, the stick was
all mine for 30 minutes once we reached 1200ft. I was actually flying based on whatever skills I had from FB.
I was also permitted to bring the plane around on an
aproach to the runway...the instructor took it the
rest of the way.
...A great experience... /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif



http://home.si.rr.com/skywolf/moonlight2.jpg


Message Edited on 10/04/0311:41AM by Skywolf-PBNA

XyZspineZyX
10-04-2003, 12:42 PM
a guy of our team once had the priviledge to make a flight in a Harvard.He won it at the Lowland Tiger Meet.He almost did the entire flight,except take-off and landing.he has some pics of it,will see if i can post them if there are requests.

Greetz

http://belgianvirtualtigers.hypermart.net/ubb/bvtlogo.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-04-2003, 02:56 PM
I know if I was on a flight and the pilot and co-pilot got heart attacks...I would want a flight-simmer instead of a real, real newbee taking over. Even a fneb, I think.

XyZspineZyX
10-04-2003, 03:24 PM
My wife surprised me on my birthday with a flight in a Piper Warrior. Zack the instructor, giving specific directions, let me takeoff which was easy. I got to fly around for an hour, do the approach and land, although he had to quickly step right rudder to correct my left drift just before touchdown. FB feels much more like flying than MS. As the plane climbed to 5,000 ft. there is a lot of pitch, and yaw asso'd with wind and downdrafts that the sim emulates fairly well. The MS 2D panel allowed me to be familiar with the instruments.

Basically you need a good instructor and have to be capable of following specific directions.

I can only speculate with envy on anyone who flies a WW2 piston bird. The tremendous power would allow much better performance with less reaction to weather.

http://gvtc.com/~thh/olegsdayoff.jpg


<A HREF="http://gvtc.com/~thh/fb.html" target="_top"><img src="http://gvtc.com/~thh/Box-weasel.jpg"

XyZspineZyX
10-04-2003, 03:30 PM
Let's see...

Before you ever go near the plane, you will want to have it fueled, file flight plan and check the weather charts.

1) Do the preflight walk around. This would include check of all control surfaces, visual check of fuel level, engine and general airframe check, pitot tube check, and then the guns and bombs and on and on...

2) In cockpit preflight check list of communication and navigation and instrument checks.

3) Engine start procedure and let's make it a simple, fixed prop engine. Both magnetos to start and full rich settings, yell "clear!" and oh yeah, turn the key! Now cycle your mags and go back to both on if all checks out. Shut down and find an A&P mechanic if not.

4) Call ground control for taxi clearance or announce intention to taxi.

5) Taxi on out to the numbers and set flaps and check control surfaces again. Then get clearance to take off or announce intention to do same. Recheck engine stats like voltages, amps, oil pressure and run it up to high power.

6) Oh yeah, there's a 20 knot crosswind today so you'll have to crab your way down the runway. It isn't a steady crosswind, so watch yourself as you approach Z-1! You take off by air speed indicated, NOT BY FEEL and this changes with overall weight of plane and distribution of load, air temperature, humidity and altitude of airfield.

7) Ok, you got your Z-1+1 so gently pull back on the stick or wheel. Watch your speed! As it increases retract the flaps at the proper time as indicated by air speed indication instrumentation, NOT BY FEEL!

8) Follow the inside pattern to assigned heading, speed and altitude until released to the outer loop by ground control.

9) Follow outer pattern until released by ground control.


Gee! Now all you got to do is land!!!

It's far from impossible and if I was the Captain of Screaming Baby Express Airways Flight 0013 and felt a bit ill; I'd let a flight simmer take the controls to land it, just in front of the option to have the 90 year old man who just threw up lunch to take the grips!!!

The good news is, you are $40-50.00 U.S. from taking your first FAA approved training flight. Even if you never get your license; it will be an experience you will always cherish! Get off your PCass and fly!!!





Luckyboy = senior hydraulic landing gear designer for the P-11



Message Edited on 10/04/0309:48AM by LuckyBoy1

XyZspineZyX
10-04-2003, 05:30 PM
Actually a Cessna is pretty simple.
Other than the legalities I've flown many aircraft without a license due to knowing the right people. Given someone was always in the other seat.

Pre-flight walk around. Hop in turn on the magneto's, open the throttle a touch, and turn the key till she starts.
Sit the for a little while until it warms up good. Bring it to idle, and switch #2 magneto off check rpm's.
Switch it back on, stand on the brakes go to full power. For only about 10 seconds to check the engine is running right, and there's no water in the fuel system.

Taxi to the runway, and stop. Check for traffic before continuing out onto the runway. Line up, check controls, flaps down 1 notch. Brakes, full power wait till she's wide open, and go! At 70mph+ start a gentle climb out untill you over the tree's. Level out, and flaps up.

Then just watch your airspeed, be easy on the controls, and your good to go.
Landing isn't all too hard either if you have a nice long runway.

Every take-off is optional, but every landing is mandatory!

XyZspineZyX
10-04-2003, 06:01 PM
Hopperfly22:

Let me know what part of the world you fly in. I may wish to move!





Luckyboy = senior hydraulic landing gear designer for the P-11

XyZspineZyX
10-04-2003, 06:07 PM
He didn't even do the mag check correct! If he didn't do that right what else is he not doing right? Another flying danger in the air for the other trained and LEAGAL pilots. on top of the real idiot pilots out there!

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid79/p9141f290fa1c1c59a2dc382c77af21f3/fb1a8321.jpg


Lead Whiner for the P-47D-40, M and N and Hvars

Message Edited on 10/04/0305:16PM by Sniper762x51

XyZspineZyX
10-04-2003, 11:11 PM
Is it really this eazy????? NO i think the planes in the game are hard to tame, and its even harder in reallity

---------------------------------------
"I came to bring tha pain hardcore from the brain"
---------------------------------------

XyZspineZyX
10-04-2003, 11:40 PM
Well it was short and sweet and I missed putting a few things down. Like I said though someone was always in the other seat, and geez I was 13 years old then. Heck that was 10 years ago.

Every take-off is optional, but every landing is mandatory!

XyZspineZyX
10-05-2003, 12:14 AM
loweyes wrote:
- How does FB do when compared to real flying.If I
- climbed into the cockpit of a real A8 could I take
- off and fly the beast?
-
-

I few a 1947 chipmunk trainer once (the instructer threw me his scraps) and I notice that whenever I fly the Stuka it always puts me back in the seat of the ancient RAF trainer/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

<center>http://www.km011a0004.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ouch.jpg <CENTER><Center><div style="width:200;color:F0FFFF;font-size:11pt;filter:glow[color=black,strength=3)">"Ehhh??! Dude switch off the aimbot!!!"
<Center>



Message Edited on 10/05/0312:14AM by SmokeJaguar

XyZspineZyX
10-05-2003, 12:25 AM
The thread that would not die.

Flying is not difficult. Think it is? Better tell Air Combat USA (and their competitor who's name I can't recall right now) that. Cause they are allowing anyone with full use of all limbs, a drivers license and ability to take a few Gs to take control of aircraft and even perform mock dogfights (complete with laser tag type gear).

Taking off? Not difficult either. A tad more complicated then flight perhaps, but, not much.

Landing? A bit more complicated as well. But, again, if you know the basics for the airframe you are in, you should be ok.

Any of the above in cross winds or adverse weather? A whole different ball game. Thing is.....realistic weather is beyond the scope of PCs already taxed with FMs DMs AI and graphics.

So what's so hard about flying that requires a license then? Well.....learning what to do in every possible emergency, how to handle every kind of weather, navigation, pre and post flight checklists, ATC protocol, how to plan flights, how to read weather charts, sanctioning body regulations, and so on.

All the above is not what this sim is trying to simulate. So yeah, taking into account the fact that we don't have to deal with the above, it really is this easy. Almost. (some torque and propwash effects are not done with enough fidelity I suspect, but, that's something you can be prepped for, and acclimated to in a few 2 seater hops.)



Message Edited on 10/05/0303:41AM by BlitzPig_DDT

XyZspineZyX
10-05-2003, 04:38 AM
a sim cannot deliver what the real experience is like..

(although FB is pretty darn close /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif )

Steaks
375th FS

Is it Pets Mart...or Pet Smart????

XyZspineZyX
10-05-2003, 06:05 AM
real planes are MUCH easier to fly than flight sims like fb and such.

www.fighterjocks.net (http://www.fighterjocks.net) home of the 11 time Champions Team AFJ. 6 Years Flying. Semper Invictus! <img src ="http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_120_1064715546.jpg">

XyZspineZyX
10-05-2003, 06:29 AM
Flying a real life single engined fixed oitch prop aircraft is not difficult, as most people with RL flying pointed out, as long as EVERYTHING GOES SMOOTHLY. But this is where the difficulties start.

When flying a real a/c, you will from the moment of take off (actually, even before take off) feel a tension which you dont experience in a sim. Your first milestone in a flight is to get beyond that critical point where you may have a catastrophic engine failure after take off. That is the first emergency procedure they teach you before going solo. Remember, right after take off you have low altitude, low speed and full power. Take all that power away suddenly with only a hundred feet or so altitude, and you have a real emergency situation on your hands - especially if you wife or kid is sitting next to you and all you see in front of you are houses, highways full of cars and trees.

Once you have enough altitude to increase your options in an emergency situation somewhat, you relax a bit but there is ALWAYS an awareness of what is going on around you - where you will land if the engine fails, or what to do when you are in controlled airspace and you have an electrics failure and no radio or you get lost during a cross country flight and so on. In a flight sim, this experience is lacking completely.

Going trhough the motions of flying and even landing an a/c is not all that difficult, but that is not all there is to it. The pilot's state of mind during the flight makes up a huge part of the experience which is not reproduced in a sim.

One thing is for sure, no r/l pilot will do the crazy manoeuvres we do in the crap weather we sometimes have in FB. Or the max rate turns at 10 feet altitude, a hair breadth away from a stall.

So, what I'm saying, I guess, is that athough there are similarities in the actions, real life flying and sim flying are worlds apart. But dont get me wrong, I'm not saying sim flying is a crock of sh*t - I fly FB way more than what's good for my relationship with my girlfriend, its just a totally different, relaxed an fun experience whereas r/l flying is more serious and tense experience.

As for whether an experienced simmer could, for example, land a plane in an emergency situation, well my view is that little would depend on the persons sim flying experience but more on his personality. A guy with 10 000 hours FB experience may be son freaked out that he would be a complete liability in a cockpit whereas an experienced flying attendant, with no flying experience, r/l or sim, might have a cool head and follow instructions from ATC to the letter. Guess who I would recommend in a situation like that.

Redshift

XyZspineZyX
10-05-2003, 08:26 AM
Redshift1 wrote:
- As for whether an experienced simmer could, for
- example, land a plane in an emergency situation,
- well my view is that little would depend on the
- persons sim flying experience but more on his
- personality. A guy with 10 000 hours FB experience
- may be son freaked out that he would be a complete
- liability in a cockpit whereas an experienced flying
- attendant, with no flying experience, r/l or sim,
- might have a cool head and follow instructions from
- ATC to the letter. Guess who I would recommend in a
- situation like that.
-
- Redshift

True enough, but, the simmer would most likely feel confident in the attempt, whereas the a non-simmer is more likely to feel panicked. At least, it seems that's how it would be. Depends on the simmer I guess. If it's one of these "it's nothing like real flying in anyway shape or form and can't ever translate" guys, then yeah, guess he would panic. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-05-2003, 08:32 AM
Yes it is that easy to fly, but it is not as easy to restart your game after you crash.

XyZspineZyX
10-05-2003, 10:11 AM
***************** Is it really this easy? *****************

A friend of mine is a Flight Simmer and I took him up for a flight in my Cessna, He didn't have any Idea how to even start the plane and I didn't expect him too . But after I took off and got up to 5K Flying over the Ocean off the New Jersey coast I handed him the Yoke , And he did really well , Until it was time to land and thats when all his senses went into overload, UP, DOWN - LEFT TURN, NO NO RIGHT TURN - RUDDER - YOKE - FLAPS - UP - NO NO DOWN - GAS - NO GAS -AWWWWWW ! - LOL And I quickly took over on base to final - And I was Laughing outloud but when I looked over at my buddy he was a ball of sweat and completely expressionless.

I then bought a Bonanza V-Tail (A High performance aircraft, But only an 8th of the performance of a WW2 Fighter ) And I was going on a flight from Atlantic City New Jersey to Ocean City Maryland to pick up a friend. And I asked my Flight Simmer buddy to go and he said yes very excitedly , As we flew over the Delaware River at level flight I handed him the Yoke and he did good for about 5 minutes until the plane needed some "small" inputs to stay on our heading and when he slightly overshot our heading he adjusted with another correction and then another to CORRECT THAT AND THEN ANOTHER CORRECTION , THEN UP, NOW DOWN - LEFT - RIGHT - And then he handed me the controls, and I was Laughing once again.

He later told me that he never thought that the motion of the plane would overwhelm your senses to the point of total confusion.

So you can draw your own conclusion if a Flight Simmer could just jump into a plane and fly .But I know that theres a little more to Real flight then what you might think.

Have a Great Day - JK-1

XyZspineZyX
10-05-2003, 10:26 AM
Like we say where I work (ATC):

If you can't do anything else, become an airline pilot/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Flying is actually very easy, but I strongly recommend everyone follow their checklist every time they go flying, better safe than sorry. Sure in a combat situation you don't have the time and there are situations in a modern aircraft that requires direct action rather than searching through the checklist to discover that the engine actually is stopped..

rgds

XyZspineZyX
10-05-2003, 05:07 PM
when flying they say your aircraft should never get to any place your mind hasn't been 5 minutes ago.

With these high performance prop aircraft, most of them tail draggers you really need to know your airplane & know what to expect.

One mistake & you can die very quickly. your mind can get behind the curve.

When comparing the game to real life, i wonder if there is anyone here who hasn't killed themselves while taking off or landing ?

One thing about flying tho yu can swerve all over the sky & there isn't anything to bump into /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-05-2003, 07:20 PM
Saburo_0 wrote:
- When comparing the game to real life, i wonder if
- there is anyone here who hasn't killed themselves
- while taking off or landing ?

In the game? Not on take off, but it took me forever to be able to land. I died a LOT trying to land the 109 at first. Then managed to just wreck the planes but survive. lol

A friend of mine with next to no sim experience had a hell of a time taking off in a P-39 w/o killing himself though. I'm a long time simmer nad plane freak so I knew enough of the basics to be able to take off at least. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-05-2003, 09:13 PM
Real flying is VERY unforgiving of errors. I assume that you are flying because you are

A. Going somewhere.

Any pilots here ever been lost? Rod Machado said that when he first started flying that it was easier to just find another airport than it was to find his way home. When you run out of gas in an airplane you cannot just coast off to the side of the highway and start thumbing. My CFI, with his entire family onboard, was lucky enough to put her down in a cornfield without damaging the plane. However, this is an off runway landing and has to be reported as an incident.

B. Flying locally for fun and learning.

Any pilots here ever have a REAL rough landing? After 7 or 8 touch and goes that went very well the confidence level starts to climb . . . uh oh! WHERE THE HELL DID THAT CROSSWIND COME FROM? Quick! Rudder! Aileron! DAMMIT! The flare was too late! BOUNCE! CRIPES! Straighten her up, you are on the runway at an angle! Left, then right about three times before she's straight. Man! I'm done for the day! Was planning to do this longer, but I need a break. I'll be back in about three days. Could have been worse. Yes. Much worse.



Tsisqua

http://www.uploadit.org/files/010903-nedChristie.jpg

Tsalagi Asgaya Equa!

XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 02:52 PM
tsisqua wrote:
- Real flying is VERY unforgiving of errors. I assume
- that you are flying because you are
-
- A. Going somewhere.
-
- Any pilots here ever been lost? Rod Machado said
- that when he first started flying that it was easier
- to just find another airport than it was to find his
- way home. When you run out of gas in an airplane you
- cannot just coast off to the side of the highway and
- start thumbing. My CFI, with his entire family
- onboard, was lucky enough to put her down in a
- cornfield without damaging the plane. However, this
- is an off runway landing and has to be reported as
- an incident.
-
- B. Flying locally for fun and learning.
-
- Any pilots here ever have a REAL rough landing?
- After 7 or 8 touch and goes that went very well the
- confidence level starts to climb . . . uh oh! WHERE
- THE HELL DID THAT CROSSWIND COME FROM? Quick!
- Rudder! Aileron! DAMMIT! The flare was too late!
- BOUNCE! CRIPES! Straighten her up, you are on the
- runway at an angle! Left, then right about three
- times before she's straight. Man! I'm done for the
- day! Was planning to do this longer, but I need a
- break. I'll be back in about three days. Could have
- been worse. Yes. Much worse.
-



Very true! and we mechanic watch , cringe some time an score landings. Saw a 737 almost land on a taxiway next to parked airplanes! Aviation is very unforgiving.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid79/p9141f290fa1c1c59a2dc382c77af21f3/fb1a8321.jpg


Lead Whiner for the P-47D-40, M and N and Hvars

XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 08:29 PM
I'm a private pilot with experience in light singles and I would never just jump into a warbird and try to fly it. Unless it were a situation where my life depended on it.
First I'd get some experience in tail draggers, which is markedly different from flying tricycle geared planes like I fly. Then I'd get some experience in higher performance planes, then experience in complex panes with constant speed props and retractable gear. Then I'd get experience
in a old trainer like a T-6 Texan or something like that.
All that before I'd even consider it. Unless I were an
everyday male German civilian that was capable of breathing, near the end of W.W.II, with no prior flying experience. Then they'd give me the keys to a 262 jet after a half hour of classes and tell me to save the Riech!!!! At least they weren't tail-draggers, LOL!!!


"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin - 1755

XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 09:28 PM
I had a similar experience but in a Tomahawk (no not the WW2 one!). I took off and thought light it lifted off the ground. then we did a few circuits, flew up and away from a rain front. And then I mentioned how light I thought the controls were, big mistake....he then asked if I had a weak stomach.....


The git put it into a dive and told me to waggle the control column to come out of it. It was at that moment I had big respect for what those boys did back in WW2, we weren't even at a great angle and it felt like the worst rollercoaster ride (and best http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif ).

An amazing experince.

XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 10:02 PM
Man,

You guys are scaring me out of wanting to learn to fly...And i stand to inherit 2 planes...

"I am a hunter. When I have shot down an Englishman my hunter's passion is satisfied for a quater of an hour."
-Manfred Von Richtoffen

" I fear no over heat 'till the needle on both guages hits the nine...Then it's too late."
-Me


Me to the Smithsonian; "Wanna sell your 190D??"