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View Full Version : 50cals? Weak?



VFS-22_SPaRX
06-21-2005, 06:35 PM
http://www.putfile.com/media.php?n=dewing


A video is worth a 1000 words.


<this is the movie makers first movie, cut him some slack http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif >

S~

Armhunter
06-21-2005, 08:52 PM
nice.. what program did you use to make the movie?

ClnlSandersLite
06-21-2005, 09:28 PM
Dude, that is hardly an exaustive test. I'm not saying they are or aren't, just that the video is only worth about 50 words on it own.

faustnik
06-21-2005, 09:56 PM
Nice shot! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

VW-IceFire
06-21-2005, 09:57 PM
I can do that too http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

1/100 times http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

FritzGryphon
06-21-2005, 11:07 PM
Nice vid, but does need more shots.

Maybe I'll try my hand at a video.

LeadSpitter_
06-21-2005, 11:49 PM
Helps to have the host advantage ping of 0 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Nothing but the magic .10 distance range where they hit very hard.

This is how they normally work 4.01

http://mysite.verizon.net/vze4jz7i/50s.zip

473 air strikes by me.

382 air strike by dart.

3-4 passes each.

Notice gibbages comment when hes in the ufo p38late with cannon http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

F19_Ob
06-22-2005, 02:10 AM
Leddie
Your track only shows up as text.

Guard4891
06-22-2005, 02:16 AM
SPaRX,nice movie!And nice shot from that ace p51 pilot.

But are u sure that shot was made on WC recently?I mean that icon setting seems not to be the one that is being used on WC right now.(u can see the icon"FW190 red 71+",but right now on WC u can see the type only).Or icon setting has been changed on some day?Just curious.

LeadSpitter_
06-22-2005, 02:42 AM
let me zip the file

FritzGryphon
06-22-2005, 02:53 AM
Here's a random clip I made.

http://members.shaw.ca/evilgryphon3/50gc.avi

LeadSpitter_
06-22-2005, 03:00 AM
greatclips fritz, I think .50s are working ok but should have a smaller distance gap between shots like its rof is not correct, also .50s should do a bit more damage at ranges of .30 .20 then they are currently doing.

The .50s are very deadly at .10 distance.

JG54_Arnie
06-22-2005, 03:04 AM
Hehe, sweet http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Yeah, its possible, if you hit that exact spot. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


Btw, Sparx, I see you have the old clouds running there, where do I put this in the conf files of the dedicated? I cant find the right spot yet. Ofcourse, I can test it and try a lot, but you already know, so I thought I just ask. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Cheers
Arnie

HoldSteady641
06-22-2005, 03:08 AM
Nice movie, we want more!

LeadSpitter_
06-22-2005, 03:12 AM
Not .50s but how about some realguncamera footage of mg151.

http://mysite.verizon.net/vze4jz7i/GERguncamfootage.mpa

AerialTarget
06-22-2005, 03:44 AM
Originally posted by LeadSpitter_:
the ufo p38late

You know nothing of the P-38. I suggest that, unless you want yet another thread turned into a well-documented argument in favor of the P-38, you refrain from slamming this great plane that has received such a bad rap in this game from day one, and which is only now beginning to resemble its real life counterpart.

WOLFMondo
06-22-2005, 05:18 AM
The other P38's resembled there RL counterparts, it just took a good pilot to make it look that way.

WholeHawg
06-22-2005, 05:57 AM
Originally posted by ClnlSandersLite:
Dude, that is hardly an exaustive test. I'm not saying they are or aren't, just that the video is only worth about 50 words on it own.

I'll give you 51 words for it!! Do I hear 52??

F19_Ob
06-22-2005, 06:18 AM
Thanks for posting those clips FritzGryphon and Leadspitter.

Do u guys also notice how similar the planes sway back and fourth because of the torque on the real clip and in the sim clip?
Several planes in Leadies real guncam film misses because of the swaying. likely from trying to correct the aim with rudder.
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Perhaps we should make a new post of this with the clips in same post for oleg and others to see.
So we don't only report errors I mean.
Perhaps it would cheer some up a bit. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Bearcat99
06-22-2005, 06:36 AM
I dont think the .50s have been weak since 3.03..... I know in 3.04 I used to regularly light up 109s with a 1 second burst from a Jug or a 6 gun plane.

LeadSpitter_
06-22-2005, 06:40 AM
definatly Ob it looks similiar to the real thing, except mg151 dont explode a plane to nothing in one short burst http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

The rudder sway is very good but its too great in some ac that historically were much more stable, then the ac like the spit zeke ki43 109 yak which historically where less stable gun platforms had alot of sway, its seems to be the opposite in game where p47 corsair hellcat 51 and 190 have the most sway and the others that shouldnt be are more stable.

But the 109 zeke ki43 yak also had a further degrees of deflection of the nose compaired to the more stable gunplatforms.

Now only if they can make ac sway up and down equally 5-15m not just nose and tail pitching.

over at simhq the guy named siggi made alot of guncam clips from the game which look excellent you cant almost tell they are from a game.

FliegerAas
06-22-2005, 07:48 AM
Originally posted by LeadSpitter_:
Not .50s but how about some realguncamera footage of mg151.

http://mysite.verizon.net/vze4jz7i/GERguncamfootage.mpa

It's a pitty that the quality is so bad. The best ones are at 4m:29s , 4m:51s, 6m:7s,...

Flying_Nutcase
06-22-2005, 07:50 AM
Originally posted by LeadSpitter_:
Not .50s but how about some realguncamera footage of mg151.

http://mysite.verizon.net/vze4jz7i/GERguncamfootage.mpa


That's an awesome collection, but it can't be real - where was the oil splatter? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

F19_Ob
06-22-2005, 08:08 AM
Originally posted by LeadSpitter_:
definatly Ob it looks similiar to the real thing, except mg151 dont explode a plane to nothing in one short burst http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

The rudder sway is very good but its too great in some ac that historically were much more stable, then the ac like the spit zeke ki43 109 yak which historically where less stable gun platforms had alot of sway, its seems to be the opposite in game where p47 corsair hellcat 51 and 190 have the most sway and the others that shouldnt be are more stable.

But the 109 zeke ki43 yak also had a further degrees of deflection of the nose compaired to the more stable gunplatforms.

Now only if they can make ac sway up and down equally 5-15m not just nose and tail pitching.

over at simhq the guy named siggi made alot of guncam clips from the game which look excellent you cant almost tell they are from a game.

There are obviously difficulties to get the gunstrenghts good and I also feel that the 20mm is a bit too strong and although one hit kills sometimes was possible I dont think it would happen so frequently.
I think of the stories where p47 pilots counted more than ten 20mm cannonhits around a hundred machinegunhits.
I also think about Robert S. Johnson wich took close to 20 20mm hits and around 200 machinegun hits.

A quote from his book.
"When I was badly shot up on June 26, 1943, I had twenty-one 20mm cannon shells in that airplane, and more than 200 7.92mm machine-gun bullets. One nicked my nose and another entered my right leg, where the bullet split in half. I still have those two little pieces, by the way; they went in just under the skin. I had been hurt worse playing football and boxing."

U cant get anywhere near that in the p47 now, but I sense there is no point arguing about that, so I concentrate my bugsearching to things wich include all planes, like the stall, spin issue.
Anyway I took out too many p47's (in my opinion) with a few cannonshells in QMBwhile testing the mg151 20mm.
So I guess I'just have to avoid getting hit.

----------------------------------------------
About the swaying I got pretty good results when adding filtering to all inputaxis in the gamesettings, but I also feel some planes are perhaps still a bit too sensitive.

Well, anyway better than 3.04 in many ways. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

faustnik
06-22-2005, 01:02 PM
There are obviously difficulties to get the gunstrenghts good and I also feel that the 20mm is a bit too strong and although one hit kills sometimes was possible I dont think it would happen so frequently.

Relative 20mm gun (Hispano/Mg151/ShVak) strength is good, there are just some a/c DMs that need adjusting now. As you mentioned, the P-47 would be one, others would include the B-25 and B-17.

I don't understand the gun sway in PF. The heavy a/c should have less of an issue but, in PF they seem to have more???

AerialTarget
06-22-2005, 03:11 PM
Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
The other P38's resembled there RL counterparts, it just took a good pilot to make it look that way.

You keep on smoking whatever you're smoking, and I'll keep on doing earnest research on the Thirty Eight.

F16_Neo
06-22-2005, 03:38 PM
Always find myself getting the TIR-tics while watching guncams http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif. Seen that clip before, intresting to see it again with 4.01 in mind.

Aaron_GT
06-22-2005, 04:33 PM
Subjectively, doing some PTO missions, it seems that the hispanos and 50 cals are stronger in 4.01 than 3.04. However I suspect that in fact the DMs of the Japanese planes have changed. It does sound like there is an issue with the 190A DM.

JG27_Stacko
06-23-2005, 08:00 AM
Originally posted by Aaron_GT:
Subjectively, doing some PTO missions, it seems that the hispanos and 50 cals are stronger in 4.01 than 3.04. However I suspect that in fact the DMs of the Japanese planes have changed. It does sound like there is an issue with the 190A DM.

Hmmm... Issue with 190A DM. Do you fly the 190 A? I do, and I can say that it certainly is killable. The thing is, guys that are shooting the 190A aren't seeing the wounded pilot, the loss of 500-800 RPM from engine hits, the broken or ineffective controls. They aren't seeing the fuel leak anymore (and that is possibly the ony problem with it). I went to the QMB and shot a 37mm cannon into the plane. It didn't explode, but when I went online and tried the same test this time with someone flying the 190A, the single 37mm killed him instatnly, on another occasion, it severed 2 out of 3 controls, hammered the engine and jammed all the guns and cannons on one side. QMB isn't a test worth considering. Get online, fly it and see for yourself.

The .50 cals have never been stronger, just now, as Sparx says, you gotta be Ace certified.

Aaron_GT
06-23-2005, 08:38 AM
The pilot will say (in Arcade mode, offline) "I am on fire" when there is no fire visible. To me that suggests that there are issues there.

Cragger
06-23-2005, 08:54 AM
Originally posted by LeadSpitter_:
Not .50s but how about some realguncamera footage of mg151.

http://mysite.verizon.net/vze4jz7i/GERguncamfootage.mpa

Intresting all that footage and only one time did a plane show signs of instant fatal damage was at 4:41 and with the way the camera lurches and the contrails that appear and the plane being in flames from both wings it would appear that one was a R24 rocket pack that hit its target.

FliegerAas
06-23-2005, 09:15 AM
If You mean the A8 against boeing starting at 4:29 thats most likely MK108 fire...

Aaron_GT
06-23-2005, 10:53 AM
I think of the stories where p47 pilots counted more than ten 20mm cannonhits around a hundred machinegunhits.
I also think about Robert S. Johnson wich took close to 20 20mm hits and around 200 machinegun hits.

You have to be careful in using anecdotal evidence, though. It just takes someone to pull out a quote regarding a LW plane taking a lot of hits and you have an argument for reducing allied gun power. For example some LW bombers in BoB came back with hundreds of 303 rounds in. Should Hurricane Is in the game be essentially unable to shoot down the He111 in the game? You have to deal in trends not single examples else we'll end up proving white is black and get run over on a zebra crossing.

PBNA-Boosher
06-23-2005, 11:36 AM
.50's are not weak. Learn to shoot, boys. It's all about getting close with the right convergence for you.

FliegerAas
06-23-2005, 11:40 AM
20mm??

Line4, the 3rd from the left:

http://guncam2002.tripod.com/

Video: Me109e vs SpitfireI (1,18MB)

JG54_Arnie
06-23-2005, 11:47 AM
Originally posted by PBNA-Boosher:
.50's are not weak. Learn to shoot, boys. It's all about getting close with the right convergence for you.

Who is saying it is? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Everyone who pays attention already sees its about DM's http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Yes, online the FW is still very "downable". Controls, pilot and wings hit render it unflyable for combat pretty soon.
No fuelleaks and no burning Fueltanks is very dodgy though.

Cragger
06-23-2005, 01:51 PM
Originally posted by FliegerAas:
If You mean the A8 against boeing starting at 4:29 thats most likely MK108 fire...

No, I really do think its some sort of time fused fragmentation warhead rocket followed up with cannon fire. If you look and pause the film and advance frame by frame you'll see a flash, the camera jumps then four or five puffs from explosions that are behind and to the left of the B-17 followed seconds later by explosions all over the B-17 occuring very rapidly and all over the airframe to spread out to be 108 fire. Remember these films are usually half or less speed so all those explosions occured very close together.