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XyZspineZyX
08-22-2003, 05:21 AM
Is this bug guys or not??????????
Only stuka when you eject bombs dropping all 5 bombs at the same time. I checked P-47 wiht 3 bombs and it is ok.First bombs from wings and after midlle one going down .

XyZspineZyX
08-22-2003, 05:21 AM
Is this bug guys or not??????????
Only stuka when you eject bombs dropping all 5 bombs at the same time. I checked P-47 wiht 3 bombs and it is ok.First bombs from wings and after midlle one going down .

XyZspineZyX
08-22-2003, 06:38 AM
known issue. already posted. Seems to be unpleasant, although I still doubt, that after you dive and make your run you will keep one part of your bombs for second pass... sounds unrealistic to me though...

XyZspineZyX
08-22-2003, 07:01 AM
I think the OPTION of making a 2nd run should be available.

47|FC
http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/research/p47-6.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-22-2003, 07:12 AM
the question is only whther this is realistic.

the Ju-87 was slow and it took a lot of time to climb.
Now after you've climbed and then dived down for a precise attack why would you ever return and try again.
It's a military doctrine that you NEVER do a second pass.

For me it's sounds like arcade.

I'd apply the same for the HE-111. I mean it would be realistic if as soon you press the button ALL bombs are released. That's the way it worked. how do you think you get precise efefects or saturate a target area when carpet bombing is decided by how fast the gunner actually can press a button repetively. It's just pure ARCADE. Same goes for the STUKA.

I COULD imagine that maybe close support planes like the FW190F or the P47 D could make use of it when in C.A.S role, as they have enough POWER to stay up and do S&D missions. But for tactical Bombers this is entirely crap.
The Ju-87 was a tactical Bomber with dive capabiity in order to ensure precision...

I'd like to know whether anyone can find a clue on this. Any books around ?
I check the Fw190 now and the 109 but does anyone have data on the Ju87 ?

XyZspineZyX
08-22-2003, 07:43 AM
Hmmm,maybe you're right,but this IS a game though. In game, during a dive,I would usually aim the wing bombs for one group of targets,and if another group were available(and near the 1st group), I would slightly alter my dive(and my trajectory)so the bomb mounted beneath the fuselage would strike the 2nd group. If no 2nd group was available I'd drop 'em all at once. I don't think that's so unrealistic.


(I admit,my saying "2nd pass" was inaccurate and misleading)

47|FC
http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/research/p47-6.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-22-2003, 05:33 PM
JaBo_HH--Gotcha wrote:
- It's a military doctrine that you NEVER do a second
- pass.

I wonder where you got that info from. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
Can you historicaly prove this or give at least some resources? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
There are a zillion instances of ground attack aircraft doing second, third and even fourth or however many passes on a target.



JaBo_HH--Gotcha wrote:
- I'd apply the same for the HE-111. I mean it would
- be realistic if as soon you press the button ALL
- bombs are released. That's the way it worked. how do
- you think you get precise efefects or saturate a
- target area when carpet bombing is decided by how
- fast the gunner actually can press a button
- repetively. It's just pure ARCADE. Same goes for the
- STUKA.

Please do some research on bomb selectors and bomb drop mechanisms before you post something like this again.
You would have figured out that its most obviously NOT the "way it worked" to release all bombs at once, but that a bombardier can drop bombs in sequence and release them individualy, at his own choosing.

I suppose again it needs to be rubbed it in that aircraft actualy DO HAVE armament selectors and bombs can be released in sequence.
(I think you are still deaf, blind and dumb to face the facts after telling this several times already.)


JaBo_HH--Gotcha wrote:
- I COULD imagine that maybe close support planes like
- the FW190F or the P47 D could make use of it when in
- C.A.S role, as they have enough POWER to stay up and
- do S&D missions. But for tactical Bombers this is
- entirely crap.
- The Ju-87 was a tactical Bomber with dive capabiity
- in order to ensure precision...
-
- I'd like to know whether anyone can find a clue on
- this. Any books around ?
- I check the Fw190 now and the 109 but does anyone
- have data on the Ju87 ?
-
-

Do some research again before you make assumptions on what you "could imagine". Would you like me for the third time to post the bomb selector panel pictures again of the 190 and 87, or the Stuka cockpit layout maybe?

Talking about "entirely crap"; Thats what I think on posts based on "imagination", "assumption" and whatever wild ideas, and then come up to ask for a "clue" and "historical backup".

LOOK AT THE DARN PICS OF THE BOMB SELECTOR SWITCHES, MAYBE THEY GIVE A "CLUE".
(Sorry for the caps people but this had to be done. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif )

G'day. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif





<marquee>
= = = = = Sturzkampfgeschwader 77 : Soon to be Back in Full Force. = = = = = </marquee>

XyZspineZyX
08-22-2003, 05:38 PM
Here: Let me spoon it up again. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://members.fortunecity.com/stg77/bombselectorju87.JPG


http://members.fortunecity.com/stg77/emergencydrop.JPG


http://members.fortunecity.com/stg77/fw190fbombselector.JPG


http://members.fortunecity.com/stg77/ju87cockpitlayout.jpg


NOTE: Number 16 and 37 is what you want to look at. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

"Bomb selectors are "arcade"." Anyone EVER heard a better one??? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Links to the other relevant threads concerning Ju-87 and FW-190 bomb selctors below:

OLEG: Ju-87 bomb release alternative:
http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=Olegmaddoxreadyroom&id=zvaqz&tpage=1

FW-190 bomb selector panel:
http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=Olegmaddoxreadyroom&id=zuxkb



<marquee>
= = = = = Sturzkampfgeschwader 77 : Soon selecting its targets over a base near you. = = = = = </marquee>

Message Edited on 08/22/0312:03PM by StG77_Fritz_X

XyZspineZyX
08-22-2003, 07:40 PM
The old setup was much better you could take out 3 tanks in 1 run on the ju87b and d. Now you fly half an hour to target to drop all bombs on 1 target its almost useless. I missed the selective bomb drop option for example dropping the sc500 first than the sc50s . And i think it was possible to select bomb timer delay in flight too. (The MV Switch Position on FW)

XyZspineZyX
08-22-2003, 08:06 PM
Not to mention, that after '43 the role of the stuka changed from dive bomb to low level ground attack due to lack of air superiority.

Extra armor was added to the fuselage, and engine areas to protect from light caliber arms starting with the D3 all the way to the G series.



-LO!

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LordOliver -> StG77_Ollie
www.stg-77.net (http://www.stg-77.net)
My personal page (http://bellsouthpwp.net/l/o/lordoliver/)

XyZspineZyX
08-22-2003, 09:22 PM
Some people eh?

They just never quit.

-----------------------------------------------------
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-----------------------------------
When a German Infantry unit's advance is halted...who do they call?? The Fighter jocks? Get real!!...They call the STUKA Pilots !!! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://members.fortunecity.com/stg77/index.htm

XyZspineZyX
08-23-2003, 12:19 AM
- I wonder where you got that info from.
-Can you historicaly prove this or give at least some resources?
-There are a zillion instances of ground attack aircraft doing second, third and even fourth or however many passes on a target.


Check NATO fighting doctrines...Janes is a good reference on this. Almost all books handling modern ACM will tell you "DON'T EVER DO A SECOND PASS". But again, I'll find the sources for you...

DUe to the fact that even the dumbest AAA will hit you when you retry an attack...
On C.A.S misisons several passes were ok but not on sam,e target, but not when you'Re supposed flying in a brick. But ok, I Ӟll do some research. Nice pics..

Pic 1:
some kind of box. Great !

PIC 2:
Emergency drop for Hull-Bomb. If you consider emergency as a SELECTOR...

PIC 3:
Status lamps. I see two buttons.
Left Button: Abwurf gesamt (drop all)
Center button is the selector. That'S finally a prove and Ithis ones valid so forget all I said before ~s~
But again you drop either ALL wing or Center or ALL bombs...

But ok you made your point and one of the pics seems to prove it. ~S~

XyZspineZyX
08-23-2003, 05:43 AM
JaBo_HH--Gotcha wrote:
- Check NATO fighting doctrines...Janes is a good
- reference on this. Almost all books handling modern
- ACM will tell you "DON'T EVER DO A SECOND PASS". But
- again, I'll find the sources for you...

In an attack the first srike has to be either a decisive one or you should have accomplished such an amount of confusion/disorganization that makes it relatively safe to do more attack runs on the enemy without risking high losses.
If the first attack is not succesful the enemy will be alert and thus it is not advisable to go into the target area again.

This is not a quote but just ground attack basics.
Prove me wrong.

JaBo_HH--Gotcha wrote:
- Pic 1:
- some kind of box. Great !
-
- PIC 2:
- Emergency drop for Hull-Bomb. If you consider
- emergency as a SELECTOR...

"Some kind of box.. Great" You crack me up! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
If this were a Star Wars game I would wonder which planet you were coming from. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

You realy dont look farther than your nose is long it seems;
"Some kind of box" in picture 1 is the bomb selector switch, and doesnt "Bomb Selector Switch" mean that you can SELECT your BOMBS with that SWITCH or am I missing something here?

Now 1+1=2: There is presently NO SUCH THING as a bomb selector in the Stuka.

Are we getting there yet? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

JaBo_HH--Gotcha wrote:
- But ok you made your point and one of the pics seems
- to prove it. ~S~
-

They all do, but at least so far you got the one of the FW-190 bomb selectors.
I hope that you get the point of the Stuka, or it might be that you think the "new" Stuka will be "ARCADE". /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

PS: Did you check into the He-111 bombsight already? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

<marquee>
= = = = = Sturzkampfgeschwader 77 : Pin Pointing a Target Near You. = = = = = </marquee>


Message Edited on 08/23/0312:07AM by StG77_Fritz_X

XyZspineZyX
08-23-2003, 05:55 AM
PS: In the Stuka it is also possible to set the pullout altitude of the auto pull-up mechanism. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
Wouldnt THAT be nice to see in the Stuka? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

http://www.europa1939.com/luftwaffe/apoyo/Stuka-1.jpg


<marquee>
* * * * StG 77 :Selecting its bombs on a target near you. * * * * </marquee>



Message Edited on 08/22/0311:57PM by StG77_Fritz_X

XyZspineZyX
08-23-2003, 09:54 AM
you seem to have a happy time http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

about the fighting doctrines:
I cant confirm yours.
Today, strike missions must ALWAYS be decisive.
The amount of AAA means that such things like "surprise" is night to impossible. Thus meaning you shouldn't do it.
During WW2 larger Bomberformations and strikes, as done by the allies, always opted for ONE attack. I've never heard for Bombers to turn around, give the foghter defense a second try and enjoyed 8.8cm AAA again (unless you quote this movie "Memphis Belle" but this one was historically unprecise..).

I was writing "some kind of box" because there's no kind of description ON THE BOX (meaning here the picture you provided) which would actually PORVE what you say. I mean this could be everything.
Picture 1 definitely doesn't prove anything. That's why I said "some kind of box"...

If you can definitely prove the means out of this blurred picture... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif


Picture TWO simply provided a butten with "EMERGENCY RELEASE" which still didn't prove anything, as I don't think (and please prve me wrong) that it's an EMERGENCY when bombers actually want to relase their bomb http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Finally Pic 3 provded that proof and I assume (as long as the developers modeleed the cockpits right) everything is ok.

If you check all my posts above I said that I assume that this situation (dropping bombs in several passes) would be unrealistic for a precision bomber like the JU-87. I even asked whether someone could confirm this with documentation..
I thought it highly unlikely. I seem to be wrong.
You can rest assured that now I'll order some books on Ju-87 and check that. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-23-2003, 03:54 PM
JS_HH--Gotcha-- wrote:
- you seem to have a happy time /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I sure do;
Now if you would look at the cockpit layout picure for once you might see that #16...
NO NOT AGAIN!!
I give up on you Gotcha....

JS_HH--Gotcha-- wrote:

- Picture TWO simply provided a butten with "EMERGENCY
- RELEASE" which still didn't prove anything, as I
- don't think (and please prve me wrong) that it's an
- EMERGENCY when bombers actually want to relase their
- bomb /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

My goodness; I start to wonder what you put in your pipe with the reasoning you do here... /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
Its just waste of time to discuss anything with you it seems; Yes I have a good time trying to spoon up facts but even though its funny it is getting kind of tiring to be repetitive all the time to one single person. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
Why dont you for a change do some research on the Stuka instead of posting hilarious stuff like this?

PS: FYI: FB is a WW-2 sim; Modern warfare doesnt apply to this game; There are enough people that can confirm the GA basics I wrote a few posts above.





<marquee>
= = = = = Sturzkampfgeschwader 77 : Soon to be Back in Full Force. = = = = = </marquee>

XyZspineZyX
08-23-2003, 05:48 PM
Let me see. How much of your positng was now based on "technical"-stuff and how much on "offense" ?
And let's check how often you tried to answer the questions ?

Now, I admitted that I maybe did something wrong.
I even said, that I WILL do some research. So maybe you could do posts based on facts and stop offending. I after all didn't offend you, did I ?

But one question: You can speak german ?


See ya

XyZspineZyX
08-23-2003, 06:58 PM
Im not offending you at all; I only think some of your posts are plain funny.
As far as research goes isnt it about time that you come up with some technical stuff?
Ive done that over and over in 3 different threads and dont want to become too repetitive.
For example how many times did I point out the Ju87 bomb selector already?
It seems you havent read posts from other people with answers to questions that well either I think.

It would be nice if you could come up with technical data because I have yet to see your references about:
- Ju87 bomb selector switch
- Ju87 emergency bomb release lever
- Lofte bombsight operation

Please base your posts on those sources instead of "assuming", "imagining" and "supposing".

It would also be great to get a link or reference to WW2 ground attack manuals/procedures. (No matter which country of origin)

Thanks in advance. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

<marquee>
= = = = = Sturzkampfgeschwader 77 : Soon to be Back in Full Force. = = = = = </marquee>

XyZspineZyX
08-23-2003, 07:02 PM
http://members.fortunecity.com/stg77/emergencydrop.JPG



"Notwurf Fur Rumpfbombe" "Emergency release for centerline bomb."

An emergency center-bomb release lever is a lever that a pilot can use to release its centerline bomb when an emergency occurs.
(Makes sense doesnt it?)
This feature is currently unavailable, as well as the bomb selector switch.
/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Yes I speak German and several other languages.


<marquee>
= = = = = StG 77 : Right On Target. = = = = = </marquee>


Message Edited on 08/23/0301:18PM by StG77_Fritz_X