PDA

View Full Version : A mod idea...not sure if it would be possible.



Praetorian27
08-06-2005, 02:02 PM
I read real combat logs from WWII and they list the names of ships they sunk. Assuming they could get close enough to read the name on the hull, or they had exact info to intercept. In any case lots of times they had entries like, "Sunk the Cargo ship "Endeavor" with 6,200 tons."

It would be a neat addition. What do you modders think?

DiveDevil
08-06-2005, 03:21 PM
I would think that would get a little too intimate and historically ackward. Someone playing might have had a relative who ws on a perticular merchant ship or warship that they now have in their sights. That raises some ethical questions. I think by having anonamous merchant ships it relieves the personal involvment and reduces the ships to...well.just ships. I think this is along the same lines as life boats bobbing in the water.

Praetorian27
08-06-2005, 09:50 PM
Originally posted by DiveDevil:
I would think that would get a little too intimate and historically ackward. Someone playing might have had a relative who ws on a perticular merchant ship or warship that they now have in their sights. That raises some ethical questions. I think by having anonamous merchant ships it relieves the personal involvment and reduces the ships to...well.just ships. I think this is along the same lines as life boats bobbing in the water.

I didn't mean real ship names...just made up ones.

Funkasoar
08-07-2005, 01:51 AM
Originally posted by DiveDevil:
I would think that would get a little too intimate and historically ackward. Someone playing might have had a relative who ws on a perticular merchant ship or warship that they now have in their sights. That raises some ethical questions. I think by having anonamous merchant ships it relieves the personal involvment and reduces the ships to...well.just ships. I think this is along the same lines as life boats bobbing in the water.

That goes both ways though. What if someone's father's ship was sunk by U-552? What if he has an adverse reation to that number being thrown about a game simulating his father's fate? Sims are sims. We can't stop at one detail cause some people get queasy. We all know what the U-Boat men did. They killed people but they also helped them when they were in their life boats (at least early in the war). Griping over this detail just brings the whole premise of the game into question. The Athenia was sunk by Fritz-Julius Lemp's U-30 on September 3, 1939. If I can't sink a simulated Athenia then why should I be able to sink passenger liners with a simulated U-30?

EFileTahi-A
08-07-2005, 08:58 AM
Originally posted by Funkasoar:

That goes both ways though. What if someone's father's ship was sunk by U-552? What if he has an adverse reation to that number being thrown about a game simulating his father's fate? Sims are sims. We can't stop at one detail cause some people get queasy. We all know what the U-Boat men did. They killed people but they also helped them when they were in their life boats (at least early in the war). Griping over this detail just brings the whole premise of the game into question. The Athenia was sunk by Fritz-Julius Lemp's U-30 on September 3, 1939. If I can't sink a simulated Athenia then why should I be able to sink passenger liners with a simulated U-30?

I totally agree with you Funkasoar, yet, I think ethical issues (in this game) begin before we can discuss "if life boats should be bobbing in water" and if they cause emotional damage to persons.

For starters we are playing as nazis and killing "the good guys". Notice the word "killing". Yes, "killing" human beings, you see, WWII ships were not operated by sand bags. Also, lots of movies recreate historical moments, so? I don't think there is a problem with that. Sure, persons whose family were killed in such momments might not like to watch such movies because it brings them their beloved ones who were killed to their memories, or similar. People have to understand that recreating war events at a game or movie does not mean the authors of the same games and movies agree with that.

"My son killed two school kids with a pistol, yes. But it is not his fault it's ID's fault for having my kid playing DOOM game, which is so violent and moraly sick." <- You should play Postal 2 then.

When will this mentality end for God sake?! My kid finished postal 2 with 9 years old (2 years ago), yet, I don't see him insulting, spanking, robbing, decapitating his school buddies with a shove or pissing at people. He is just a normal kid who can tell the diference between games and reality. If a 9 years old kid can see the diference how come some adults can't?

Personally I found kinda hipocrate when I read last year the DEVS saying that there would not be life boats in the game at use due ethical reasons, when now I see now at the game people flying at the sharks after being hit by my subs deck gun.

They try to recreate a realistic war ambient by adding persons at "battle sations" and, at the end, there are not life boats to save the ones who survive my weapons. Sure there is no need, the vessels in this game are operated by sand bags, (for the good "ethical reasons").

Why war games have to be so "Hollywood" styled? Why does not this happens to movies (those who are not hollywood literally made that is) Please, don't say to me that games are more "in-depth" because they are interactive. I've dropped tears many times by watching movies, who have real persons, expressing "real" (if they are good actors) feelings unlike in games where I only see a bunch o polygons trying to recreate "the-real-thing". Anyway, we are not here talking about games like "Postal 2" we are talking about a war game, and war my friends, is not a pretty show to watch.

Yes, there were many crimes/atrocities comitted during war, but am not talking about having features in the game like, me, as nazi player, to be able to rape young british girls or making grotesc experiments in jewish people, I'm talking about life boats to recreat the so called "realistic naval war athmosphere".

Conclusion: Seeing life boats at water seams to be an emotional problem, but killing and playing as NAZI seems to be ok.

DiveDevil
08-07-2005, 09:42 AM
For starters we are playing as nazis and killing "the good guys"
Who said we were Nazi's? The U-boat service was a arm of the Kriegsmarine and in fact had very little to do with the Nazi political idiolegy. Kind of like the German army compared to the S.S service.


"I didn't mean real ship names...just made up ones."
Random name generation sounds a lot better; suddenly I agree.

Still unsure about the life boat thing though.

EFileTahi-A
08-07-2005, 09:47 AM
Originally posted by DiveDevil:
Who said we were Nazi's? The U-boat service was a arm of the Kriegsmarine and in fact had very little to do with the Nazi political idiolegy. Kind of like the German army compared to the S.S service.


I don't care if the U-Boat was at the service of kriegsmarine and that it had very little to do with the nazi political idiology, U-boat was fighting for Hitler, the leader of nazism.

Persons are called to responsability for what they do, not for what they think.

EFileTahi-A
08-07-2005, 10:07 AM
Anyway, With all this "ethical" talk I forgot to give my opinion regarding Praetorian27's suggestion.

That would indeed add something to SH3. Dispiting if the ships names should be made up or not.

It would be truly cool to see comments like:

" - Sir! Tanker T3 "Liberty" spotted!"
" - Sir! Aircraft carrier spotted. It is the "Spania" sir!"

Praetorian27
08-07-2005, 10:24 AM
Originally posted by EFileTahi-A:
Anyway, With all this "ethical" talk I forgot to give my opinion regarding Praetorian27's suggestion.

That would indeed add something to SH3. Dispiting if the ships names should be made up or not.

It would be truly cool to see comments like:

" - Sir! Tanker T3 "Liberty" spotted!"
" - Sir! Aircraft carrier spotted. It is the "Spania" sir!"

Wouldn't that be neat? You could see it was a merchant ship, and if you were close enough to read the name on the hull, it would go down in your Kapitan's log as "Sunk C3 "Eveready" or something similar instead of the generic ships being all the same.

EFileTahi-A
08-07-2005, 10:36 AM
Originally posted by Praetorian27:
Wouldn't that be neat? You could see it was a merchant ship, and if you were close enough to read the name on the hull, it would go down in your Kapitan's log as "Sunk C3 "Eveready" or something similar instead of the generic ships being all the same.

Indeed http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Mylo42
08-07-2005, 10:24 PM
Sorry, I liked the life boat topic (The ship names is a good idea though, in my opinion.). As for the lifeboats, how cool is it to think that a game would have the power to muster up intense personal conflict. Do I save them, or do I gun them down ? Do I gun them down because I want to see polygons moving around....or do I gun them down because I enjoy watching simulated violence ? Whatever...I just think it would be cool to have a personal conscience decision to make. Too bad the player couldn't make that decision. Take them on board and it occupies some of your crew and rations (I wish they modeled rations). The interior animations could show some captives tied up, sitting in the back of the control room.

Personally, I would take the prisoners...unless...of course....I couldn't.

I don't feel myself as playing the part of a Nazi. I see myself playing as part of the Kreigsmarine, serving my country. (perhaps forced to...I don't know). It wouldn't be any different if I was playing the part of a Japanese, Brit, American, or any other submariner. In that aspect, it's still a game to me and I don't get too wrapped up in the whole Nazi thing.

EFileTahi-A
08-08-2005, 02:10 AM
Originally posted by Mylo42:
In that aspect, it's still a game to me and I don't get too wrapped up in the whole Nazi thing.

Exactly, why should anybody get? It's just a game for the love of God! I just hope you understood that my NAZI talk was only to comparing ethical values and not an issue to discuss at all...

Fish40
08-08-2005, 04:25 AM
I was always under the impression, that a combat simulator weather it be flight, naval, or what have you, was to mimic real historic combat, as closely as possible. Mabey I'm wrong, I don't know. My feeling is this: Whatever adds to the realism and immersion, without going over the line, should be considered. For me personally, the ethics of the life boat and ship names is not an issue. We don't need to see bleeding and wounded women and children, for cryin out loud, but a lifeboat amidst the floating boxes and cargo would add an extra level to the realism. Anyway, who said war was ethical?

EFileTahi-A
08-08-2005, 06:09 AM
Originally posted by Fish40:
(...) Anyway, who said war was ethical?

Great call buddy http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

aaronblood
08-08-2005, 07:44 AM
I love the idea! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

I'm just glad they at least allowed us to have real u-boat numbers. I figured they'd have the same ethical blah blah blah issues and would make up nonsensical numbers.

I've been so close to ships and would've loved to have read the name on the stern. Any name would indeed be cool!

DiveDevil
08-08-2005, 08:26 AM
I like the idea of randomly generated names on ships I think its a cool idea. I thought Praetorian wanted to see historical names which I thought might be a little much for some people and aso prove difficult to recreate in this game. But yea I think having a name next to the ship type would add to the captains log, right now it looks a little bland.
Lifeboats....Hmmmmm. Well I suppose if a mod was created I would check it out. Whatever its only a game. Sure lets have lifeboats why not.
As for the Kriegmarine I stand by what I said they weren't Nazi they only worked for a Nazi cause but only in hopes that it would end the war and stop the bombs from raining on their hometowns and families.

EFileTahi-A
08-08-2005, 10:34 AM
Ok, lets go techincal. How would we acomplish this?

Step one would be creating a huge text file with all the names we want.

Step two having a way of erasing the names that were already sunk.

Step three. How would we write those names on the vessel? Of course that creating a texture with those names on it would do the thing, but this means we would need to create many textures for it, one new texture per name that is.

Instead of using the ships texture image we could create a TARGA pic only containing the ships name, it would be much smaller then creating a new full texture. But, how would we implant these textures in the ships? How to randomize them?

Without source code... I can't figure of anything...

aaronblood
08-08-2005, 12:49 PM
Well... aside from assuming Forest Gump is in charge of naming the merchant fleets of all nations, I'm not sure it's possible at all.

Maybe the ship graphic would be scribblish and it would just be a text entry in the log, etc.

Another thought for modders... Maybe you change the name of the merchant dependent upon date? ...or something like that? At least that way you don't have to worry so much about retiring names you just assign them based on a date?

A Forrest Gump mod would be cool though! Henceforth all trawlers will be referred to as "Jenny".

rustywigal
08-08-2005, 01:13 PM
The lisitng of ship names sunk on a patrol was indeed part of the original Silent Hunter on a Commodore. I do miss that. It was cool to see a listing of ships sunk like:

Freighter - Sarumi Maru - 5670 tons
Tanker - Tondaru Maru - 8800 tons
Destroyer - Aamakazi - 1100 tons

captsteubie
08-09-2005, 01:23 AM
I would like to see names on ships as well. As for the Nazi/anti Nazi talk, I have never been a fan of political correctness, so I don't care. I would rather be historically accurate than politically correct. History is in the past. Live with it, don't rewrite it. Lifeboats would also add a nice measure of realism to the sim. I also wish that I could hear the radio distress signals from the merchants that I send to the bottom. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

EFileTahi-A
08-09-2005, 08:43 AM
So, not possible huh?

Say beeryus, since you have messed around alot with the game's files what can you tell about this mod?