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chris455
11-21-2004, 10:15 PM
Guys,
I'm trying to put together some shots showing the P-40's vulnerability to rifle caliber gunfire. Here are a couple I saved tonight in
a QMB versus 4 Vals. In this first shot, you can see how 1 7,7mm mg bullet has completely seized my engine. This is the only hit I suffered:
http://members.cox.net/miataman1/p40.jpg
Next, my wingie. You can see that he has quit his ship, after being hit by two 7,7mm bullets.
One passed through the wing, the other through the fuselage. Should this have been a fatal hit?
http://members.cox.net/miataman1/p402.jpg
It is my wish that others use this thread to bring this problem to Olegs attention. It IS a problem that is inconsistent with what we know of the P-40's construction and durability. Let's pitch in and provide tracks and screenshots, (or other documentation) and not merely rhetoric or anecdotes.
Specifically, do any P-40 afficionados out there know if the P-40 had armor plate between the spinner and the engine ala P-51? I have looked but I cannot find any good references.

Can we do this and maybe make a difference guys?

Korolov
11-21-2004, 11:13 PM
The P-40s have some of the strongest airframes around, but one or two hits and the entire engine siezes up.

A interesting note, a hit on the edge of the prop hub usually results in the RPMs going well beyond their safe limits. Hits to other parts of the engine resulted in the engine stopping instantly.

faustnik
11-21-2004, 11:23 PM
Why would a single rifle caliber round cause so much damage to a heacy Allison engine? I can't find any diagrams showing armor plate in front of the engine, but, there is the large prop reduction gearing in fron of the engine. Maybe this explains the prop pitch adjustment going out, but, not engine siezure. A bullet striking the engine would from the front would probably hit at an oblique angle in which case it would be difficult for it to penetrate the crank case. If it did enter the valve cover, would it instantly sieze the engine?

chris455
11-21-2004, 11:24 PM
Korolov, I have noticed the RPM racing after a hit. I'm not sure what it means. What do you think they were trying to simulate here?

RAAF_Edin
11-22-2004, 04:55 AM
I haven't flown a P-40 in real life... and I did not design one... but I don't know how a plane like P-40 could get a reputation of being a very tough and rugged build plane if it would take damage the way it does in this sim http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

I must say that at least when flying a P-40E or M version it can take quite a beating sometimes and mostly when being hit from side or rear. But one hit in engine front and it's gone. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

anarchy52
11-22-2004, 05:06 AM
Welcome to the world of Bf-109 damage model

KGr.HH-Sunburst
11-22-2004, 06:04 AM
the P40 has a wierd DM model on one hand its engine dies by one Mg hit or is set on fire by a stupid reargunner ,on the other hand it can take tons of damage from 20mm hits from dead 6
ive put a whole FW190 or 109 ammo load in it and it still flies like nothing happend

structural failure is almost not present on the P40, also the 50s on the P40 seem to jam instantly after being hit by Mg rounds without being hit in the wing root

dont let this be one sided and let the whole DM be looked at.
make the engine a little stronger and structural a little weaker IMO

for the time being just avoid head-ons and dead six shooting on bombers with reargunners

WB_Outlaw
11-22-2004, 06:04 AM
The high RPM is due to loss of prop pitch control. I can't remember if the P-40 had an electric unit or engine oil pressure driven but, either way, that's what's happening. It happened to my P-51 last night while attacking an He-111. I've also lost prop pitch control in a 109. The fail-safe position is minimum pitch. This will allow you to at least get some horsepower out of the engine. You won't get much airspeed but you will be able to RTB. I can't say for sure if that is technically accurate.

It appears to me that the engine damage model is pretty coarse. This makes it very difficult to adequately simulate engine damage. There aren't many place you can shoot a water cooled engine and not do damage that will eventually put it out of action. Between the water jacketing, oil passages, fuel lines, water hoses, vacuum hoses, water pump, generator, hydraulic pump, super/turbo charger, and other electric/mechanical components bolted all around, they are very vulnerable.

Assuming that an outright bug is not in action here, I believe that due to lack of a fine grained engine damage model, the developers have simply decided that some hits will be fatal immediately. It's a compromise they probably didn't want to make. Hopefully they will be able to improve this as they get time.


-Outlaw.

NegativeGee
11-22-2004, 07:40 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by anarchy52:
Welcome to the world of Bf-109 damage model <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've used 109's as one of my main rides over the years and there isn't an equal comparison with the H81/P-40B/P-40C in terms of durability (read engine and controls) to damage from fire incoming from the front arc. The 109 is vunerable, but it does not suffer from the complete loss of engine function and control damage from single small calibre hits that is common place in the H81/P-40B/P-40C at the moment.

Good job setting the ball rolling on this chris455, I'll have some stuff to add soon I hope.

chris455
11-22-2004, 09:00 AM
Thanks Negative, I'll add some more stuff probably tonight, hopefully others will contribute and maybe Oleg will take a look.
Anyone with some good diagrams of construction details of the P-40 please post!

S.taibanzai
11-22-2004, 09:28 AM
whining,whining,whining

ask for a concrete engine that go's mach 2

S.taibanzai
11-22-2004, 09:35 AM
and yes please make the zero much more stronger

lest say makes it so strong so it can suffer some MK 108 hits

and a dive speed of 800kph

PLEASE PLEASE

i dont care of real flight dammage

faustnik
11-22-2004, 09:49 AM
Ignore it Chris. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif I'll keep looking for a good scanable diagram.

chris455
11-22-2004, 09:50 AM
Awesome, Faustnik. Thanks! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Luftcaca
11-22-2004, 09:51 AM
you guys dont forget that the P-40 often looses ALL ITS CONTROLS with a single hit. happened to me a couple of times and I actually started a thread about it a couple of weeks. but its prolly sunk in the threads cemetary now...

faustnik
11-22-2004, 10:08 AM
Here is an old picture of the Allison:

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mdegnan/_images/Allisonv1750.jpg

Chuck_Older
11-22-2004, 10:29 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by S.taibanzai:
and yes please make the zero much more stronger

lest say makes it so strong so it can suffer some MK 108 hits

and a dive speed of 800kph

PLEASE PLEASE

i dont care of real flight dammage <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ahem. Care to back that up with fact, or shall we whine together about fantasy?

mortoma
11-22-2004, 11:39 AM
Oleg should give it the same DM as he does for many Russian inline engined planes, then it would be almost impossible to shoot down. Try flying a Lagg behind a gaggle of He-111 bombers and let them shoot you. You'll only go down if you get PK'd!!!! Nothing will kill the engine of the LaGG-3!!!! Yet is has similar but less reliable Russian engine......lol

faustnik
11-22-2004, 11:46 AM
That's a good idea Mortoma. We should test the P-40E against the field mod version.

chris455
11-22-2004, 01:28 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by faustnik:
That's a good idea Mortoma. We should test the P-40E against the field mod version. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm at work right now- anybody wanna do exactly that? Test the P-40 field mod with the Klimov engine versus Val or Kate rear gunners?

p1ngu666
11-22-2004, 01:29 PM
think i only got a cut away of p40 warhawk, thats later one.. ill look in my mags.

its probably got a big hitbox for cables by mistake, but ull loose controls really easy..

mortoma
11-22-2004, 01:34 PM
Omigosh!!!!! It's way worse than I thought. I just flew in QMB two times. The first time I took a Lagg-3 model 29 against two He-111s. I got behind them and didn't do much at first, just stayed behind them at various distances, all close enough to be pummeled by the gunners. Well, I got about 40 pings from German Mgs, but no damage at all, so I left and landed after shooting down one of the bombers. Not even a scratch.

Then I tried the new P-40B. Holy Krap!!!!! As soon as I turned behind them and waited, the very first hit damaged my engine severely and cut my rudder cables, both at the same time!!!!
My engine siezed and stopped within 40 seconds!!! What's going on with this so-called DM??? Something fishy here methinks.......

p1ngu666
11-22-2004, 01:53 PM
http://premium.uploadit.org/pingu666/p40engine.jpg

http://premium.uploadit.org/pingu666/p40cutaway.jpg

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
abit dodgy cos of magazine on my lap, fotoed http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

chris455
11-22-2004, 01:54 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mortoma:
Omigosh!!!!! It's way worse than I thought. I just flew in QMB two times. The first time I took a Lagg-3 model 29 against two He-111s. I got behind them and didn't do much at first, just stayed behind them at various distances, all close enough to be pummeled by the gunners. Well, I got about 40 pings from German Mgs, but no damage at all, so I left and landed after shooting down one of the bombers. Not even a scratch.

Then I tried the new P-40B. Holy Krap!!!!! As soon as I turned behind them and waited, the very first hit damaged my engine severely and cut my rudder cables, both at the same time!!!!
My engine siezed and stopped within 40 seconds!!! What's going on with this so-called DM??? Something fishy here methinks....... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks Mortoma! Any chance you can save and post those tracks ???

NegativeGee
11-22-2004, 01:59 PM
Okaysie, I've got 35 tracks showing damage tests for a selection of 7 inline engined fighters (Bf-109 F-4, H81, P-40B, P-40E, MiG 3, Spitfire Vb and Yak 1) for those interested in seeing the P-40's damage susceptability repeatedly at work.

The test puts each plane against 4xD3A1 divebombers 5 times to show what common damage results are and how easily they occur. The tests were set up in the FMB, so the tracks are nice and short.

Anyone know of a functional free web host I can use to put these online for download? (just over 1MB of files in total).

Alternatively, PM with your email address I can send them to you

Cheers http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

chris455
11-22-2004, 02:20 PM
I will host them NG- check your PMs in a minute or two

mortoma
11-22-2004, 04:35 PM
Yes, I have tracks of this obscenity. I have nowhere to host them. Any ideas?? By the way, am I whining???? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

chris455
11-22-2004, 07:55 PM
Mortoma, I will host the tracks. Check you PMs.

SkyChimp
11-22-2004, 08:22 PM
The Allison V-1710 was considered a very robust engine. Here are some scans. Hope they help:

http://members.cox.net/us.fighters/allison1.jpg
http://members.cox.net/us.fighters/allison2.jpg
http://members.cox.net/us.fighters/allison3.jpg

NetDaemon
11-22-2004, 08:47 PM
I hear your pain people.

I been flying Bird_brain´s excellent "El Alamein" campaigns lately and you do most of your flying time in the P-40E.

And it`s been a nightmare trying to complete the intercept missions against bombers, one hit in the engine and it dies immediately.

Hope Oleg listens to the reason being posted in this thread.

You have my support.

chris455
11-22-2004, 09:46 PM
Skychimp, I have read in two of my sources that export versions of the P-40 (Hawk 81A) lacked armor and self-sealing tanks.
Do you know where the P-40 was armored?
Specifically, was there an armored area in front of the engine behind the spinner ala P-51/A-36?

NegativeGee
11-22-2004, 10:57 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by chris455:
Skychimp, I have read in two of my sources that export versions of the P-40 (Hawk 81A) lacked armor and self-sealing tanks.
Do you know _where_ the P-40 was armored?
Specifically, was there an armored area in front of the engine behind the spinner ala P-51/A-36? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This article (http://home.att.net/~jbaugher1/p40_6.html) makes some mention of armour placement on the P-40. In particular it states "In addition all of the fuel tanks had external self-sealing material, not internally-mounted sealing material as in the "C" model. Also the Model "C" had armor plate in the front, ahead of the pilot, installed on the firewall between the two fifties,".

chris455
11-23-2004, 12:00 AM
Thus far in informal tests (4Vals vs Aircraft X)
the 3 "most survivable" are:
I-16
LaGG
MiG3

MiG3UD takes a mighty hammering and keeps on keeping on, the AM-35 engine (same as found in IL2)along with the Klimov M105 seems to be the inlines to beat as far as DM goes.

I'm having some difficulty drawing conclusions here, except to say that the Allison is a real lightweight as far as DM is concerned, along with the Merlins and Packard Merlins and DB60x.

pourshot
11-23-2004, 12:14 AM
This is after one hit from the tail gun of the Val, my engine died soon after this.

http://members.optusnet.com.au/~andycarroll68/single_hit.jpg

http://members.optusnet.com.au/~andycarroll68/single_hit2.jpg

chris455
11-23-2004, 12:43 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SkyChimp:
The Allison V-1710 was considered a very robust engine. Here are some scans. Hope they help:

http://members.cox.net/us.fighters/allison1.jpg
http://members.cox.net/us.fighters/allison2.jpg
http://members.cox.net/us.fighters/allison3.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Skychimp, that last picture of the Allison with the bullet holes is AWESOME.

clint-ruin
11-23-2004, 12:54 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by chris455:
Thus far in informal tests (4Vals vs Aircraft X)
the 3 "most survivable" are:
I-16
LaGG
MiG3

MiG3UD takes a mighty hammering and keeps on keeping on, the AM-35 engine (same as found in IL2)along with the Klimov M105 seems to be the inlines to beat as far as DM goes.

I'm having some difficulty drawing conclusions here, except to say that the Allison is a real lightweight as far as DM is concerned, along with the Merlins and Packard Merlins and DB60x. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mig3U is almost certainly running around with the old style DM, as with a lot of the other user-made planes from Il2/FB.

Lagg3 [s4 - others to me seem different?] seems to need 12.7/15mm to kill it dead properly.

From the sounds of things - not a lot has changed since I went playing with similar tests in 1.21/2.00.

Korolov
11-23-2004, 01:00 AM
Another plane to look at is the P-38, which seems able to take multiple hits in it's engines and still keep running.

The P-40E-M105 field mod is just as vulnerable as the Allison engined P-40s. First hit caused engine to barf on the windshield, second hit caused engine to sieze, third hit disabled all controls.

chris455
11-23-2004, 01:19 AM
Korolov,
Roger on the M-105 P-40, but the P-38? As much as I love the plane, she is a firetrap in my experience. Plus, for some reason, I always loose BOTH engines at exactly the same time-

Haven't figured that one out yet. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Korolov
11-23-2004, 01:26 AM
In the frontal area of the engine, it seems pretty durable. Taking 7.7mm/12.7mm/7.92mm hits in either side dont seem to result in the engine dying, but the CSP mechanisms seem to get damaged. Hits behind the front result in oil cooler damage, strangely enough.

The fuel tanks seem far more fire prone than the engines themselves. Additionally, the engines rarely sieze up from one hit.

mortoma
11-23-2004, 09:53 PM
Did you guy forget about this thread?? Well, at least this will re-bump it automatically.... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

chris455
11-23-2004, 10:36 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mortoma:
Did you guy forget about this thread?? Well, at least this will re-bump it automatically.... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No Mort, not forgotten.
I'm going to send some tracks, screenies and photos people have provided to 1C this weekend via e-mail. I'll let you guys know what the response is when I get it.

NegativeGee
11-24-2004, 10:01 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mortoma:
Did you guy forget about this thread?? Well, at least this will re-bump it automatically.... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I was kinda at a loose end how best to proceed http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

Be interesting to see what our man chris hears back from the supreme one... good luck with that.

Vipez-
11-24-2004, 10:51 AM
clint is right, Laggs and Migs still have the old DM all the way from Il-2 Sturmovik..

Lagg-3's weak point is the rute of the left wing (thats quite strange, my experience shows that only the left wing burns, but right wing does not http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif )

Problem is this area is very very tiny to hit.. on the Lagg series, the Series 4 seems to be the toughest to crack.. Series 29 / 35 get engine halted more often, but still no german 7.9mm seems seem to harm it..

Gato__Loco
11-24-2004, 01:15 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by S.taibanzai:
whining,whining,whining <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Are you 8 years old? There is a difference between a whine and a rational discussion about potential problems.
Gosh!

chris455
11-24-2004, 05:06 PM
I will put together the evidence (such as it is) this weekend and e-mail it off.

Thanks for all the help and support you guys.
I'll keep my fingers crossed, but remember, damage modelling is one of the most subjective sciences in the game. We need to be prepared if things don't go the way we feel they should.

Let's hope for at least a review of the damage model, eh?.
Chris

p1ngu666
11-24-2004, 07:36 PM
me dad got p40book down from loft, ill flick thru tomoz and take relivant pics http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif.

has a couple of "i lost some of my wing when i pushed it into a japanease fighter but my p40 carried on. handled the same too" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

clint-ruin
11-24-2004, 09:37 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by p1ngu666:
has a couple of "i lost some of my wing when i pushed it into a japanease fighter but my p40 carried on. handled the same too" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There was a thread a while back about changing the DM of the P-47 to let it fly with half a wing attached, based on pilot accounts of a chimney strike. Oleg came in and mentioned that he had photos of Il2s and many other aircraft coming home with similar damage! Would be cool to get that added in as a controllable state in the FM someday :>

Re: the DM, something to bear in mind is that I'm pretty sure that one arrow doesn't equal one physical bullet for many of the rifle cal guns. Has been in the past as much as a 33% reduction in the number of physical bullets as compared to ones that exist in the game - the damage is taken into account all the same, just means that occasionally single 'pings' of hits can be strangely powerful. The .303s on the HurriIIb still seem to spit out fewer drawn rounds than the gun would be producing from some quick tests I did earlier. But one drawn API round is still enough to flame a zero if it hits the right spot :>

mortoma
11-25-2004, 07:44 AM
Really, if you think about it we might want to challenge the delicate DM of the 109 in this game too.
The 109s have always been a 'one hit and your engine dies' type of bird. Granted, the 109 was not legendary for toughness but that doesn't mean only one hit should disable your engine, does it??
I think they exaggerate a bit with the DM of some planes.

Enofinu
11-25-2004, 10:14 AM
Agree you on that mortoma, totally. and some planes can eat 30mm like candy http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif
While i think one MG round hit from 30mm cannon should drop hitted plane speed really much because lost of plane skin http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif it didnt need to Cut tail from plane (mustang, it just popped aluminium skin away from tail section and Stang was unable to stay in air after that. cant remember where i readed that thing.

chris455
11-25-2004, 01:30 PM
Guys, I have just sent off an e-mail to Oleg and Co.

I included a photo of the damaged Allison engine provided by Skychimp (14 bullet holes and it still brought it's pilot home!-thanks Chimpster), two screenshots showing 1 or 2 shot kills on the P-40, and a track showing a 1 shot kill by a 7,7mm MG on the P-40B's engine. I also invited Oleg to visit this thread.

Let's hope this will help Oleg review the P-40 DM. Whether or not it does, I really want to thank you guys for your help on this. We really are a great community. I have faith in Oleg that we will get a "fair hearing". http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Chris

SkyChimp
11-25-2004, 03:26 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by chris455:
Guys, I have just sent off an e-mail to Oleg and Co.

I included a photo of the damaged Allison engine provided by Skychimp (14 bullet holes and it still brought it's pilot home!-thanks Chimpster), two screenshots showing 1 or 2 shot kills on the P-40, and a track showing a 1 shot kill by a 7,7mm MG on the P-40B's engine. I also invited Oleg to visit this thread.

Let's hope this will help Oleg review the P-40 DM. Whether or not it does, I really want to thank you guys for your help on this. We really are a great community. I have faith in Oleg that we will get a "fair hearing". http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Chris <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The P-40/B/C didn't have any engine armor. Nevertheless, the vulnerability of the engine in this game is absurdly overdone. Compare to the Red's inlines, which can take a much greater pounding, despite the fact that they were no less vulnerable.

On top of that, the pitot tube on the P-40B and C is modeled wrong. It should be straight, not bent. The British Tomahawks had bent tubes.

JG77Von_Hess
11-25-2004, 03:37 PM
Yeah lets hope it will be fixed and on par with the Daimler. After all getting hit sux.

Regards.

VH.

chris455
11-25-2004, 04:13 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SkyChimp:


The P-40/B/C didn't have any engine armor. Nevertheless, the vulnerability of the engine in this game is absurdly overdone. Compare to the Red's inlines, which can take a much greater pounding, despite the fact that they were no less vulnerable.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You're not kidding, that AM-53 engine in the MiG3 takes a licking and keeps on ticking.
Why not the faithful Allison?

NegativeGee
11-26-2004, 10:20 AM
Hey guys, something caught my eye in the 3.02b release notes: (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=63110913&m=6091066542)

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Notice:

Main modifications and fixes

Damage model

Corrected P-40 engine damage model

3D models

More inaccuracies in cockpit gauges are corrected (however several cockpit changes with some levers will be available only in the next add-on due to big size).

FM and aircraft performance

1. Additional individual tuning of flight models and aircraft performance were made for the P-39s, P400, F4U, F6F and some other planes. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Someone give it a test- see if the control damage has been adjusted as well (I won't have chance as I'm away this weekend).

Enjoy!

chris455
11-26-2004, 12:11 PM
Guys,

I received an E-mail from Oleg this morning which said:

"engine DM fixed"

Woohoo!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks Oleg!

chris455
11-26-2004, 01:04 PM
Well, I may have celebrated too early........ http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
Th p-40 DM is stil unchanged, I received a supplemental e-mail from Oleg saying it may not have made it in to this version (3.02)
but he said that it will be fixed in the final version to be released soon.
I told him I'd let you guys know and that we'd be patient. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

...........off to explore the other changes that did make it in.

chris455
11-29-2004, 09:55 PM
Guys, especially Mortoma and Negative Gee-
Spoke to Oleg this AM in regard to P-40 DM. Oleg wanted an additional track, since he said that with changes made in 3.02 they couldn't duplicate the one-shot engine kill. I tried for over an hour in arcade mode and I couldn't do it now either. I must have overlooked it initially. The engine now seems much tougher.
Could you guys check it out? make sure you're in arcade so you know exactly how many hits your engine is taking.
Maybe it's already fixed, seems like it to me. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

p1ngu666
11-29-2004, 10:15 PM
does the p40 still lose controls and stuff real easy?

think u can rip wing off easy on ground too

chris455
11-29-2004, 11:14 PM
Well, I've been flying it through "flak & fighters" for the last 2 hours, and she seems really tough now!

DIRTY-MAC
11-30-2004, 12:18 AM
GOOD WORK GUYS!
This is how it´s supposed to be done http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

faustnik
11-30-2004, 12:46 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by chris455:
Well, I've been flying it through "flak & fighters" for the last 2 hours, and she seems really tough now! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Chris,

I test the P-40 against .50 and rifle caliber defensive fire and the DM seemed good. A few direct hits to the engine would cause it to shut down. It did not do the 1 shot engine failure anymore though. Great work! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

chris455
11-30-2004, 08:11 AM
Thank you Faustnik, but Oleg deserves all the credit.
In one scenario I flew this AM, I had 6 arrows (representing hits in arcade mode) from rifle caliber mgs in my engine, and all I got was a little smoke. The engine continued to run a long time, slowly loosing power, until I bailed out. This to me was so much more realistic than "boom" and your engine dies.
Thanks again to all who helped on this.
Chris