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canucksledge
04-23-2005, 07:02 PM
How about this. What if you just released what you got now. Call it a "some risk attached, use at your peril" sort of warning. Maybe all of us can help you make it better. Chase down them bugs. If there's already a place where this is happening, then point me to it. I'm all over it. We all know the risk of beta, and if we all screw our installs, we all know how to fix it. No fault to you guys. Worst that could happen is all us "whiners" shut the heck up. Me included.

Also, if Ubi was at fault for printing Betty on the box and still to this day on their webpage, why didn't you say that earlier? I'd be doing on the phone to them what I've been doing here, and maybe I'd be better liked. Or at least more productive. Or possibly may have just hung out and never posted at all.

Anyway...

What say?

Eraser_tr
04-23-2005, 07:09 PM
I'd like that.

Public beta testing means more bugs caught faster anyway http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

canucksledge
04-23-2005, 07:31 PM
Well, after reading the top sticky, as I rarely look up there, I can understand this not being possible at this time. Best of luck, Oleg...

Hunter82
04-23-2005, 10:12 PM
Problem is the sortng of the ' I read in so and so book that so and so AC should do this' reports that make up 60% of the actual reports sent in. Then the bugs that aren't bugs that are reported and are user error or a systems issue.

There is alot more involved than most think just on that end.

Public betas add alot more problems and length of time into the mix more often than not.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Eraser_tr:
I'd like that.

Public beta testing means more bugs caught faster anyway http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

arcadeace
04-23-2005, 10:31 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by canucksledge:
Also, if Ubi was at fault for printing Betty on the box and still to this day on their webpage, why didn't you say that earlier? I'd be doing on the phone to them what I've been doing here, and maybe I'd be better liked. Or at least more productive. Or possibly may have just hung out and never posted at all.

Anyway...

What say? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

In many previous discussions it has been mentioned, and very specific. You only joined here Feb 10th.

EiZ0N
04-24-2005, 07:09 AM
public betas find more bugs? debatable

Eraser_tr
04-24-2005, 07:30 AM
well alot more players would be using all different areas of the game, and trying all different things that beta testers might not even think of.

canucksledge
04-24-2005, 11:02 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Arcadeace:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by canucksledge:
Also, if Ubi was at fault for printing Betty on the box and still to this day on their webpage, why didn't you say that earlier? I'd be doing on the phone to them what I've been doing here, and maybe I'd be better liked. Or at least more productive. Or possibly may have just hung out and never posted at all.

Anyway...

What say? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

In many previous discussions it has been mentioned, and very specific. You only joined here Feb 10th. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well pardon me for missing that post. Point is I've been whining for over 3 mos. about the missing Betty and no one has ever said this before now. BUT I'M NOT GOING THERE!

Been hanging out for 2 years as a guest. Didn't feel the need to post until I didn't see the promised 3rd cd by the 4th month, and was generally annoyed at the change in attitude towards the customer. Just been yappy since the problem still hasn't gone away.

How many guests a day you think come and go without ever joining?

(Puts on an extra thick layer of Troll repellent)

VW-IceFire
04-24-2005, 12:12 PM
canucksledge, its just a sensitive issue. Some guy came on here a while ago threatening legal action against UbiSoft because of false advertising...that prompted an uproar. If you missed it, its probably for the best.

My opinion is simple and straightforward:
1) I expect a patch with the Betty (as advertised)
2) I expect a patch with the other elements mentioned from official sources (again, as advertised, free patch)
3) I also expect, because of the good reputation and excellent community interaction, to see a number of unpublished extra goodies in the patch (not advertised, extra free bonus)

We're getting what we missed and more. It takes longer but I have paitence. I've been waiting for a flyable Tempest V for 3 years...I can wait...even if some of the people here have no problem with posting "Where's my 4.0!?!" threads every day.

We ultimately end up with more. Thats worth it.

On the public beta, I'm ambivalent...I'll test it if we get it, and I'll be content if we don't test it. Whichever is the better process.

heywooood
04-24-2005, 12:40 PM
What Hunter said...open beta just adds more input, not more qualified input.

The testers need to know alot about r/l flight characteristics as well as simulation characteristics and playability. What is 100% correct in r/l may not be 100% possible to emulate on computer and may actually reduce the quality of the sims' playability. Some concessions must be made and compromises have to be carefully weighed in.

Then the program itself has to be evaluated WRT various hardware setups and drivers,etc...

cool when you figure that most 'public' users dont even know where to look up their own driver versions let alone trim their cpu usage or configure their rig for optimum performance.
....and we wont even discuss 'public' users knowledge of warbird performance, flight characteristics or weapons data.

arcadeace
04-24-2005, 03:30 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by canucksledge:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Arcadeace:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by canucksledge:
Also, if Ubi was at fault for printing Betty on the box and still to this day on their webpage, why didn't you say that earlier? I'd be doing on the phone to them what I've been doing here, and maybe I'd be better liked. Or at least more productive. Or possibly may have just hung out and never posted at all.

Anyway...

What say? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

In many previous discussions it has been mentioned, and very specific. You only joined here Feb 10th. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well pardon me for missing that post. Point is I've been whining for over 3 mos. about the missing Betty and no one has ever said this before now. BUT I'M NOT GOING THERE!

Been hanging out for 2 years as a guest. Didn't feel the need to post until I didn't see the promised 3rd cd by the 4th month, and was generally annoyed at the change in attitude towards the customer. Just been yappy since the problem still hasn't gone away.

How many guests a day you think come and go without ever joining?

(Puts on an extra thick layer of Troll repellent) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Canuksledge, I never participated in any of your previous threads as your whining hasn't bothered me and that's not the reason for my response in this thread. You were very direct and asked a specific question, I took the moment to give you a simple, yet direct response... and you start whining again. Its obvious if you've been hanging around for 2 years, YOU missed all the discussion. So now since you've learned its not Oleg's fault... is it ours? Nobody owes you anything.

Like IceFire says, a lot of us are patient and we've experienced over time we end up getting more than we initially expected. That's been reality for most, visitors and members.

Oleg doesn't come here much and with good reason http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif I suggest you join Sim HQ and be first in line to read his answers.

canucksledge
04-24-2005, 04:44 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Arcadeace:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by canucksledge:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Arcadeace:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by canucksledge:
Also, if Ubi was at fault for printing Betty on the box and still to this day on their webpage, why didn't you say that earlier? I'd be doing on the phone to them what I've been doing here, and maybe I'd be better liked. Or at least more productive. Or possibly may have just hung out and never posted at all.

Anyway...

What say? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

In many previous discussions it has been mentioned, and very specific. You only joined here Feb 10th. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well pardon me for missing that post. Point is I've been whining for over 3 mos. about the missing Betty and no one has ever said this before now. BUT I'M NOT GOING THERE!

Been hanging out for 2 years as a guest. Didn't feel the need to post until I didn't see the promised 3rd cd by the 4th month, and was generally annoyed at the change in attitude towards the customer. Just been yappy since the problem still hasn't gone away.

How many guests a day you think come and go without ever joining?

(Puts on an extra thick layer of Troll repellent) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Canuksledge, I never participated in any of your previous threads as your whining hasn't bothered me and that's not the reason for my response in this thread. You were very direct and asked a specific question, I took the moment to give you a simple, yet direct response... and you start whining again. Its obvious if you've been hanging around for 2 years, YOU missed all the discussion. So now since you've learned its not Oleg's fault... is it ours? Nobody owes you anything.

Like IceFire says, a lot of us are patient and we've experienced over time we end up getting more than we initially expected. That's been reality for most, visitors and members.

Oleg doesn't come here much and with good reason http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif I suggest you join Sim HQ and be first in line to read his answers. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Problem is, this is Ubi's official support site, and they have told me both online and by telephone this is where I ask the questions. So this is where I ask the questions. We got two distinct sides playing me off each other and I'm beginning to get a little ticked. Neither side wants to admit fault at the vapourware status of the rest of my software, and both blame each other. You choose to accept it, I choose not to. Two different people, buddy...so because you feel your method of lying back and waiting is the right method, I should go away? Look around, read the posts. Others agree with me. Lots of others. Wish the funboys would take their own advice and ignore the posts that rile them...but they can't. Why should I do something that obviously the other side of the coin is no more capable of than me?

C'mon...be reasonable. Neither you nor any of the others that obviously have a different idea of what one should expect of software publishers are any more right than me. It's a PUBLIC forum, and I'm using it as such. Don't keep telling me to stop whining. Just DON'T READ OR RESPOND TO THE POST... I paid my coin for this sim, versus just grabbing it free off some file sharing program, I play it all the time, I contribute to this forum, and I have earned my right to an opinion just as much as you have. Based on the support from Nov 04 to current, you cannot tell me they have followed their previous levels of support. If you can, then that's fine. I won't call you wrong if you return the favour.

heywooood
04-24-2005, 04:53 PM
alot of people agree with your position, it is the endless repititions and often either antagonistic or mornfull/pitiful tone of that position which has worn thin....

We have in our possesion a working, viable flight sim with more flyable planes than you can shake a snake at right now....and everyone has already read every version of the NUMBER ONE COMPLAINT regarding PF. So, what would you do, given that you are not in charge and cannot do the programming yourself?...

canucksledge
04-24-2005, 05:03 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by heywooood:
alot of people agree with your position, it is the endless repititions and often either antagonistic or mornfull/pitiful tone of that position which has worn thin....

We have in our possesion a working, viable flight sim with more flyable planes than you can shake a snake at right now....and everyone has already read every version of the NUMBER ONE COMPLAINT regarding PF. So, what would you do, given that you are not in charge and cannot do the programming yourself?... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Granted. Some of that, granted. I got a little incensed at the fact that a month had gone by with no news, and no one saying anything, and the tetherball that both sides have played us the last few months, I felt it was time to start squeaking again.

I guess I just had higher expectations based on what all you guys said here before I bought PF...and a month from now when we still know nothing, I'd hope someone else can squeak. This is a pain in the pipe...

arcadeace
04-24-2005, 05:57 PM
There was a lot of detail explained before PF came out. I fly offline and because of that knew when I bought it I would be getting half the sim, if that. Basically it was Pacific theater maps, planes and carriers, not even any campaigns.

You talk as if there are mutually exclusive sides here but really, many of us are not against you, and I'm not saying leave. I believe the sim was released prematurely but again it was not Oleg's fault, that's Ubi's and marketing.

A lot of info in order to make an informed decision was up to you. Plus, you may have been able to return the sim - at least I could've but didn't want to. Most of us are just saying if you're gonna keep and play it... then join http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif This forum has been saturated with people complaining, and having fun, about when the next patch will be here. Seriously banging your head is not gonna accomplish anything.

raisen
04-25-2005, 03:43 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by EiZ0N:
public betas find more bugs? debatable <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

With respect it has worked for the Linux community for a long period of time. Something as contentious as online simming though ? maybe not.
That's one I'd leave to Oleg and the team.

Raisen

williek
04-27-2005, 08:18 AM
save your M$ jokes, but I don't think too many companies are going to make public a version of their game that they know is extremely buggy. It's as bad or worse for PR as not putting it out at all.