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View Full Version : 4.02 Stick Input Trouble Resolution........



LEBillfish
10-23-2005, 08:14 AM
Hi All;

If you read these forums and the 4.02 patch threads you might of heard of the terrible time I've been having with the patch, specifically with the Joystick inputs which naturally directly relates to how the planes fly/FM........& 3.03/4 was a fresh install for me. So if you are having troubles with this patch read on.

Re-patching did nothing.

Working stick settings just dulled it.

Deleting and re-adding fresh files did little.

Essentially, nothing worked........So giving into the inevitable, I saved my critical files, and deleted IL2-AEP-PF....checking to make sure I removed all aspects of the sim using both "Add/Remove Software" & then insuring it by deleting all files and folders (yet did NOT insure registry was wiped).

Next I completely reinstalled in this manner (and yes I realize some steps/patches are normally by-passed yet this is how I do it)

*Downloaded 4.02 AGAIN from Ubi site (31,039 Kb)
*Defrag
*Reboot
*IL2FB
*AEP
*2.04
*PF
*3.03m
*3.03 to 3.04m
*4.01m
*4.02m
*Reboot
*Defrag
*Start Sim (Run it long enough to generate user files and folders and check settings) then shut it down.
*Add IL2 utility software
*Made a copy of Conf.exe & Users\Doe\Settings.ini renaming copies ConfORIG.ini etc.
*Deleted contents of Conf/settings.ini's using notepad.
*Paste contents from old Conf/settings.ini's into new empty files.
*Added back Paint/Samples(sound) files.
*Started Sim, checked settings.
*Defragged
*Reboot
*Then checked sim.

Made a vast difference. So much so, aspects I had not had in the sim before were added (petty things like QMB start alt from 100-900m)..and no idea what else yet.

However, instantly I could tell the FM was vastly different (from first attempt at 4.02) in QMB. Input flutter was gone. Control was restored. Feel of the plane was much different.


I realize it's a pain, yet if you have been having serious problems with 4.02 take the time and do it. A fresh re-install made a gigantic difference.......Now I'm hoping I can look at the Sim as it really stands in 4.02.

blairgowrie
10-23-2005, 08:27 AM
I think I might do the same. It is cold and wet outside and can't think of a better project.

Woof603
10-23-2005, 08:59 AM
Congratulations on your perseverance and success, Billfish. An excellent post for those with the wobblies. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

NorrisMcWhirter
10-23-2005, 09:03 AM
I suggest anyone else trying this makes a backup of their current Il-2 directory beforehand.

They then install from scratch.

After, they do a file compare. There is bound to be some differences (config files) but the core program files should be the same

if not, post what they are.

Ta,
Norris

geetarman
10-23-2005, 09:04 AM
What if the wobblies are supposed to be part of 4.02?

rr9
10-23-2005, 09:48 AM
I had 4.02m already, but I think it wasn't working as well as it should. Before doing all the steps listed in the first post, I tried a shorter list:
-reboot
-patch 4.02m
-reboot
-play

and the game was smooth again.

blairgowrie
10-23-2005, 09:52 AM
Norris,

I am willing to do that but may I ask exactly what you mean when you say back up the current Il-2 directory beforehand. Which one is the directory?

AFJ_Locust
10-23-2005, 10:07 AM
LEBillfish

I reinstalled in the same manner I used the patch order that Tully recomends.

Its still the same for me, Its redicules

Im not going to keep uninstalling reinstalling etc etc, It should Install right the first time

The patch is Screwed up, there are some good things but the inputs are critical & if there not funtioning right then its ****

NorrisMcWhirter
10-23-2005, 10:14 AM
OK..normally your Il-2 directory is in something like:

"c:\program files\UBI\IL-2 Sturmovik Forgotten Battles"

Mine isn't so I don't know exactly what it should be.

You can just copy this entire directory somewhere else...say into your root (Chttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif so you have

c:\IL-2 Sturmovik Forgotten Battles

with your game in.

You can still run the game from there by double clicking on the il2fb.exe file in that directory. i.e. it doesn't store anything in the registry (or as far as I can tell) that stops it running if you move it.

I'd suggest trying to run it...then, if it works, deleting the game folder in c:\program files\etc

You now install the game from scratch, as per usual, right up to 4.02m

You could then download this http://www.scootersoftware.com/download.php (or something similar) and install it.

When you run it, you'll have to bypass some initial setup stuff but you should be able to get to something looking like this:

http://www.brayllo.plus.com/sig/compare1.jpg

Although, in your case, the right hand folder box should contain "c:\program files\UBI\IL-2 Sturmovik Forgotten Battles" or whatever.

If you go to session->comparison control and you select 'binary'..like this:

http://www.brayllo.plus.com/sig/comparesettings.jpg

Just for an example of what you might expect to see, here is a comparison of 4.02m and 4.01m:

http://www.brayllo.plus.com/sig/compareexample.jpg

This shows just the differences..there are other files that are present in one patch and not another, but these are the ones common to both patches that are different.

Then you hit the yellow refresh, it will check ALL the files in the two directories against each other. You're only really interested in those in the main folder (not sub folders) as these should be the core program files.

If any show up in red, this means they have failed the binary comparison so they are different. Not just timestamps etc...it compares them down to each individual bit of every byte in every file.

If you do find any differences, best to PM me and I can help go through the differences with you, including any you find in the subdirectories that might be important.

I do understand if you feel this is a little OTT and you don't want to touch it with a bargepole, however http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif But it would prove one way or the other. I might even do it myself at some point but I'm not having much problem downing things even with this 'wobble' effect.

It's odd but people complained about having to do a complete reinstall with 4.01....maybe some people have patched after running the game and some have just after rebooting, the latter meaning that there are no file locks to cause patching issues?

Ta,
Norris

blairgowrie
10-23-2005, 10:59 AM
Thanks a lot Norris. Not sure I totally understand it all but I will try and stumble through it.

I hosted for 10 guys last nights flying coops. I don't think I hit a thing all night.

J_Weaver
10-23-2005, 11:00 AM
A simple defrag fixed it for me. The P-47 now feels like the beast it was, not a cork bobbing around in the North Atlantic. A defrag may be a good idea for everyone after installing 4.02.

Sun_Ra
10-23-2005, 11:24 AM
I'm thinking of a re-intall myself. I understood it was best like this, taken from Tull's sticky on PF forum.
1. FB
2.AEP
3.PF
4.patch 3.0-3.4m (100mb)
5.patch 4.01m (141mb)
6.patch 4.02m (31mb)

is this still the straight dope?

Sun_Ra
10-23-2005, 11:27 AM
I guess looking at Bilifish's post It comes down to the 2.04 patch. Do we still need that if we are installing from scratch each disc?

Retrofish
10-23-2005, 11:41 AM
I guess looking at Bilifish's post It comes down to the 2.04 patch. Do we still need that if we are installing from scratch each disc?

No patches are needed between FB and AEP or AEP and PF.

The 19 MB 3.03m to 3.04m patch is not needed before installing 4.01m. Just make sure you get the 100 MB 3.0m to 3.03m patch.

blairgowrie
10-23-2005, 02:28 PM
It took a while but the game is all re-installed and up to date.

I think I have done the comparison properly and attach a screenshot of the results.

I haven't tried to fly yet but I will do that shortly and post my impressions. I must say the game installed much cleaner this time around. Last time I did a few months ago after a reformat I got read errors all the way through the install.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v41/blairgowrie/File-Comparison.jpg

blairgowrie
10-23-2005, 02:42 PM
I sure as heck don't want to mislead anyone but like Billfish, after the reinstall the wobbles appear to be gone. I just flew a whole bunch of flights on QMB and the gunsight was rock steady. A slight rudder adjustment was all that was needed to get back on target.

Chuck_Older
10-23-2005, 02:54 PM
Originally posted by blairgowrie:
I sure as heck don't want to mislead anyone but like Billfish, after the reinstall the wobbles appear to be gone. I just flew a whole bunch of flights on QMB and the gunsight was rock steady. A slight rudder adjustment was all that was needed to get back on target.

As it should be in 4.02 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

if this little issue isn't enough to convince Ubi that a full package platinum edition isn't needed...


Ubi has had issues with providing properly functioning patches for this sim before...like with 4.01. Somebody over there needs to take a good look and examine what the problem is, because AFJ Locust is right about something: it should just work. Seems to me this problem is on Ubi's side of things. They even got the merged and stand-alone patches wrong http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif Mistakes are human, but you're supposed to learn from them, too

blairgowrie
10-23-2005, 04:21 PM
Well said Chuck. I am sure they could consolidate everything to a couple of discs and come up with a Platinum edition. I would certainly pay for such a beast.

AH_Gonzo
10-23-2005, 04:42 PM
Thanks for all the help guys. I'm off to do some experimenting myself and maybe get rid of the wobbles. Now if only some sort of read me had come with the patch, it would have saved lots of grumbling and people's time.

Having people around with enough interest in the game to help others have the same amount of fun as they are having really helps keep this sim alive. Thanks again!

NorrisMcWhirter
10-24-2005, 03:44 AM
Thanks blairgowrie http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Not sure i f there were any differences because the comparison doesn't appear to have completed.

But, I reinstalled from scratch and patched up to 4.02m using the UBI sourced patch.

Result of comparison?

http://www.brayllo.plus.com/sig/402freshcomparison.jpg

Only files that are different are shown here and, as you can see, none of the files we're interested in (SFS/DLL/etc) are different in any way.

The conf.ini is obviously different as I've monkeyed around with it.

Stick settings are shown here:

http://www.brayllo.plus.com/sig/stickcompare.jpg

I haven't run the game yet, either. This compare is immediately following the fresh install and the first conclusion to draw is that the suggestion the having to reinstall to overcome the problem is incorrect.

What I will do is have a play and see how the config files change after the first run.

Ta,
Norris

WTE_Ibis
10-24-2005, 04:27 AM
I swapped the conf. file for the 4.01 version, I'm a lot happier now.
Cheers.

.

NorrisMcWhirter
10-24-2005, 04:56 AM
Run the game - no difference whatsoever from 4.01.

Only change made that _reduced_ 'wobble' was to notch the filtering to 1..was 0.

Stick? MSFFB2

So, fresh install seems to default filtering to 0..which may exacerbate some the wobble problems of some people..

Be interesting to know what people who say they've resolved wobble problem did AFTER reinstalling and BEFORE flying in QMB/etc (i.e. settings)

Ta,
Norris

Lord_Rhah
10-24-2005, 05:28 AM
Thanks for all the info provided by people.

I still seem to be having problems though. I've done a reinstall, but i didnt save my config file, so im using an unaltered one. I also didnt defrag (will try that asap).
i also messed around with the filter settings on the stick, but no noticable result, and i've tried changing the pitch and yaw sliders in the hardware setup.

is it better to manually change the X,Y,Z axis in the Config file, or in the hardware setup screen?

also, im having some probs with the rudder as well. can the rudder be toned down using the Config file? (i dont have pedals btw, im using keys)

any help much appreciated

nakamura_kenji
10-24-2005, 05:40 AM
easy way fix torque switch off but cause problem online almost all server play torque on so need rudder. can only suggest by twist stick joystick or rudder pedal if rich.

what type stick have? i use saitek cyborg gold twist but i like

if want can send my config? default stick set use

Kwiatos
10-24-2005, 05:43 AM
Wobbling is just aspect of 4.02 patch. So new installing, reinstalling, cleaning, reboting, defragmenting etc and other bs will effect the same - end product will be 4.02 and wobbling. Just all.

WTE_Ibis
10-24-2005, 06:17 AM
Originally posted by Kwiatos:
Wobbling is just aspect of 4.02 patch. So new installing, reinstalling, cleaning, reboting, defragmenting etc and other bs will effect the same - end product will be 4.02 and wobbling. Just all.

Don't think so m8, I don't have the problem. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
Old conf. plus input tweaking fixed it fine for me. Maybe different for others.


.

Lord_Rhah
10-24-2005, 07:25 AM
Originally posted by nakamura_kenji:
easy way fix torque switch off but cause problem online almost all server play torque on so need rudder. can only suggest by twist stick joystick or rudder pedal if rich.

what type stick have? i use saitek cyborg gold twist but i like

if want can send my config? default stick set use
torque isnt the problem, its the excessive movement whenever i hit use left or right rudder, it moves the nose nearly 30 degrees, then snaps back when i release the key. can this be toned down in the conf. file?

i only have a copy of a sidewinder stick, its been working fine though, would love to get a better stick, with twist rudder, but i cant afford at the moment.

Kenji, if you could send me your conf file, or just the joystick settings part, it would be much appreciated.

sgilewicz
10-24-2005, 09:45 AM
Guys, I think the conf.ini is the real issue here. When I got my LCD monitor back in the spring I remember that in order to keep high resolution setting one needed to make the conf.ini READ ONLY after launching the game with the new settings. Otherwise IIRC any changes to the con.ini would revert back to the default resolution.

With this in mind when I patched to 4.02 I forgot that the con.ini was still a read only file and it never was replaced during patching (confirmed this by looking at the date stamp). I never have seen the wobbling that so many of you are suffering from. If you have a copy of your old conf.ini prior to 4.02 please just try that first before tearing everything apart. The simplest solution is often the best http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Sun_Ra
10-24-2005, 09:45 AM
One little thing I noticed last night on Zekes v Wildcat server was after landing and re-flying my rudder trim wouldn't respond to the mouse wheel as usual. Instead I had to strike the / key to center it and then it would work as usual. Perhaps cuttting and pasting my config and setting files has casued some problems.Ended up re-installing the game, after all that I was too tired to test it out.

Aviar
10-24-2005, 10:42 AM
Originally posted by sgilewicz:
Guys, I think the conf.ini is the real issue here. When I got my LCD monitor back in the spring I remember that in order to keep high resolution setting one needed to make the conf.ini READ ONLY after launching the game with the new settings. Otherwise IIRC any changes to the con.ini would revert back to the default resolution.

With this in mind when I patched to 4.02 I forgot that the con.ini was still a read only file and it never was replaced during patching (confirmed this by looking at the date stamp). I never have seen the wobbling that so many of you are suffering from. If you have a copy of your old conf.ini prior to 4.02 please just try that first before tearing everything apart. The simplest solution is often the best http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Sorry, but your point is moot. There was no 'conf.ini' file in the 4.02 patch.

Aviar

sgilewicz
10-24-2005, 11:11 AM
Aviar,
According to numerous players regarding the wobbles and their attempts to fix them, the settings in the conf.ini file were changed upon installing 4.02. If I am wrong, so be it, but changing one thing at a time and checking the result is the correct scientific approach to troubleshooting. Making massive shotgun changes doesn't shed light on just what exactly is the problem. Just trying to help http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif BTW-my bad should have said "config.ini" not conf.ini. Not enough caffeine yet!

martian04
10-24-2005, 04:38 PM
I am in the same boat [ well it is now for ..ck's sake] thinking of a re-install but there must be a tech guy who can sort through the joystick settings and spot a problem. Hope this gets sorted..Anyone came up with anyway of improving things sick of trying to fly a jelly fish rig http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

martian04
10-24-2005, 05:29 PM
Ok i have managed to find 2 old saved config.in files one for forgotten battles and a tweaked one from AEP on both of these the joystick settings are different.
I have altered the PF joystick settings to my AEP settings and it seems to have improved..not fully but this could be the new flight model mybe. Anyway back to testing..
If you take a look at norris post look at the joystick settings i deleted all the ones highlighted in red all beginning with 1 i only had five of these bet it ***** up other planes but i flew a spit and it was much better for me.

edit
Well played on-line still not great!

LEBillfish
10-24-2005, 06:32 PM
I think what we are seeing here, is not one specific result of a problem, yet many possible results of the same problem.

Some here have no problems....Still others have what some are calling a "wobble" which from descriptions sounds more like a slow movement...Up to the extreme which I had of such severe jerky motions of such a high frequency when applying input from the 0-10/20% range it was much like if you shook your head back and forth/up and down as fast as you could.

Some of the minor problems some are having I'm betting is just learning a new FM...Some not. However, what is clear is that 4.02 seems to randomly cause problems for many in varied degree's.

What this implies to me is that some unchanged file in 4.01 and before is not reacting well with one of the new files in 4.02.......HOWEVER, due to the varied degree of the similar problem I'm beginning to wonder if the unchanged file(s) not reacting well might be those linked to some user settings or some other file that changes as we each play...and changes on our own individual levels.

"Perhaps"....the reinstall recreates this file in it's "stock" configuration. Naturally we're all patching over this stock configuration then and THEN making our individual adjustments or not if a file that changes due to play not settings.

Hopefully it is not the latter, yet time will tell as that would mean at some point it is likely the old problem will re-occur due to the changes made over time and flying.

No expert, yet ATM (subject to change in 5 seconds)......That is sounding the most logical to me.

martian04
10-25-2005, 08:38 AM
well i loaded another config.ini file and it changed again. I agree its a combination of things. The thing is we cannot see what each other is getting..so what about this idea.
If we get guys with this problem to record a track and post it here. If you can,that way we can see the variance in problems and hopefully some tech guy from here will solve the problem or atleast let us know if its mainly the new FM causing it! my worst problem is lining guns up and when i move nose of plane up and down its not smooth anymore its like a wave effect as if flaps sort of flutter.

the wobble etc is worse when flying out of cockpit as well and it also seems worse on-line then off.
I want this sorting if its just getting used to new FM and tweaking joystick ok but i think there is more to it than that.
Let me know about the trak idea [i know everyone has different settings but if we set them roughly the same and flew the same plane mybe we could get this sorted. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

jimDG
10-25-2005, 09:34 AM
nah, reinstalled, played with conf.ini and stick settings - no change.
The real problem is that at one stick deflection, the a/c has one equilibrium angle of incidence, at a different stick deflection - its a different AOI. In 4.02 the a/c go too quickly between one AOI to another, when the equilibrium position is changed. So, as the nose is traveling to the other AOI it pick up much more angular speed than before. then it overshoots the equilibrium position and goes back - as it has been said many times over - inertia is lower, but stability is not higher (compared to 4.01).

And lets suppose thats how its supposed to be in real life. BUT in real life people have 1 meter long control columns that they can move 1 inch at a time. with a 10 cm stick I cant really hit a 1mm deflection change. And no ammount of stick tweaking will get me there.

If I set filtering ON, then wobble is less (less angular aceleration as force is aplied gradually) - but then I overcompensate to get myself to the AOI I need. So I induce the wobble
If filtering is off - I cant really move the stick gradually over one 5mm deflection - so wobble comes from sharp movement and low inertia.
And if I have progressive stick settings- then arround the center things will be controlable (red square moves a lot, green square moves a little), but then at 80% stick deflection a very small deflection change will result in a large control surface angle changes (green square starts moving a lot more for a small red square movement).

TooCooL34
10-25-2005, 09:46 AM
Real stick movement range was not that large as you expect.
What LEBillfish is talking about is corrupted contorl due to bad patch install, not poor control.

jimDG
10-25-2005, 10:38 AM
Originally posted by TooCooL34:
Real stick movement range was not that large as you expect.
What LEBillfish is talking about is corrupted contorl due to bad patch install, not poor control.

I think its the "placebo" effect. Besides, my stick (logitech) needs 50 full up and down movements after computer is switched on before it starts working properly , before those the cross is all over the place. So, if I didnt know this I would also be thinking that my reinstall has changed something.
As to the real stick movement range - in the bf109 its as much as the sidewalls allow without bumping the contr. column into them - which is at least 30 cm from center to full deflection (compared to 6 cm on my stick)

hos8367
10-25-2005, 10:45 AM
I was getting what others describe. It was a wobble, not just yaw, but pitch as well, that made aiming impossible. Last night I tried pasting my last saved conf.ini over the one in the IL2 directory and it seems to have fixed it. There were no changes to stick settings between that backup and the present. My guess is when 4.02 installed (or perhaps the first time it ran) it did screw up the conf.ini, and just pasting it over the new one worked for me.

martian04
10-25-2005, 11:14 AM
Well glad you got an improvement i hope from here i can tweak stick as close as i can to what i had before.Due to the FM being different i will have to try and adapt

TooCooL34
10-25-2005, 11:35 AM
Originally posted by jimDG:
I think its the "placebo" effect. Besides, my stick (logitech) needs 50 full up and down movements after computer is switched on before it starts working properly , before those the cross is all over the place. So, if I didnt know this I would also be thinking that my reinstall has changed something.

Logitech? That's bad, really bad on center. Did I write bad enough?
Even after recalibration, your center will jump all over again soon. Hope you replace it by a/s. (thou buying other trusty stick, like CH or MS, would be the only real solution)

jimDG
10-25-2005, 02:40 PM
Originally posted by TooCooL34:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jimDG:
I think its the "placebo" effect. Besides, my stick (logitech) needs 50 full up and down movements after computer is switched on before it starts working properly , before those the cross is all over the place. So, if I didnt know this I would also be thinking that my reinstall has changed something.

Logitech? That's bad, really bad on center. Did I write bad enough?
Even after recalibration, your center will jump all over again soon. Hope you replace it by a/s. (thou buying other trusty stick, like CH or MS, would be the only real solution) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I openned it and fixed the mechanics inside, so that the center is always fine - there was a small gap where the "deflectiometers" connected to the bottom of the stick, giving a hysteresis responce. some epoxy glue made it rock solid. however this ruined it at extreme deflections - with such a solid conection the stick applies sideways forces to the deflection measurment devices' bearings, so by now (6 months latter) there insides are worn out (thats why it needs "warming up"). buying a new stick has been on the list for the last 2 weeks, but smth always happens that prevents me from going shopping.
Im extending my next stick´s length by 20-30 cm , and bolting it to my chair. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

ucanfly
10-25-2005, 02:58 PM
I know that Oleg should not have to be blamed for crappy stick pots, but am I the only one that thinks that all the adjustments we have to make to our stick settings is compensating for a really crappy Joystick to FM interface design in the game?

jimDG
10-25-2005, 03:17 PM
Originally posted by ucanfly:
I know that Oleg should not have to be blamed for crappy stick pots, but am I the only one that thinks that all the adjustments we have to make to our stick settings is compensating for a really crappy Joystick to FM interface design in the game?

stick to flight interface is almost all there is to ww2 fighter design. having a stick curve actually ruins fidelity. what we should be having is a sensitivity setting that we can put on a slider, so that we can adjust in game to compensate for short sticks. the way this should work is - at arround zero all 10 current stick bars are arround zero, at max - all 10 bars are close to 100%. EQUAL values.

AH_Gonzo
10-25-2005, 03:25 PM
Well after tinkering with the game and settings for a few days I gave in and did the full un-install and re-install just as LEBillfish suggested in the initial post of this thread and viola, no more wobble! I've only flown it around for a few hours but the difference of the FM now to what it was before is totally different. Now I don't get sea sick any more looking at my monitor and the aircraft actually responds to the stick inputs when I make them. The aircraft nose wandering effect now makes sense. It does replicate P-Factor forces found on real aircraft (How well is still open to discussion). Also, I'm flying the joystick settings set to default with no filtering and I'm almost 100% happy with those settings.

Prior to this rather extreme measure I tried pretty much everything:

Stick adjustment and filtering: No real effect apart from decreasing the stick's sensitivity. Anything less than a ton of filtering and toning down of the input sliders would have the aircraft spinning out of control, even if I simply looked at the joystick intently.

Driver clean up and updating: Un-installed, updated, and re-installed all the drives for my joystick, video card, and sound card (Got a bit carried away!) and this did nothing. Now, even the graphics are better than after my initial 4.02 installation and there is NO frame rate hit and no game stutter. I purposely tried this before the next step to be sure it wasn't a driver issue causing the "Wobbles".

Defrag and re-patch: I tried this a bunch of times in as many variations as I could think of and it did have a minor effect on the aircraft bobbling. While the improvement was minor, it proved to me that there was something wrong with the 4.02 installation. Effect on the frame rates and graphics quality was nil though.

I tried swinging a dead chicken tied to a piece of string over my head too. No noticeable effect on aircraft performance. Luckily I was still looking for a virgin to sacrifice before I gave up and went for a full re-install of the game.

Thanks to LEBillfish and all the others who contributed info to this thread. Guess I'm not giving up the game and taking up basket weaving after all! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

martian04
10-25-2005, 05:36 PM
Well i am left no choice but to re-install the minor improvements just not good enough i will post back before year end with results ! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif

Snyde-Dastardly
10-25-2005, 10:14 PM
Darn! I was hopeing I didnt have to re-install. Oh well hear goes everything!

ucanfly
10-25-2005, 10:30 PM
Originally posted by jimDG:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ucanfly:
I know that Oleg should not have to be blamed for crappy stick pots, but am I the only one that thinks that all the adjustments we have to make to our stick settings is compensating for a really crappy Joystick to FM interface design in the game?

stick to flight interface is almost all there is to ww2 fighter design. having a stick curve actually ruins fidelity. what we should be having is a sensitivity setting that we can put on a slider, so that we can adjust in game to compensate for short sticks. the way this should work is - at arround zero all 10 current stick bars are arround zero, at max - all 10 bars are close to 100%. EQUAL values. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Sorry , but I think adjustment to short sticks is something that should have been designed in the game, not left to the user to compensate for. Last time I looked there are not a hell of alot of us that use WWII length control sticks.

Snyde-Dastardly
10-26-2005, 12:01 AM
Well you were right!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif
Full re-install and all is right in the world.

Thanks a bunch LEBillFish,
CARPE DIEM
Snyde

Lord_Rhah
10-26-2005, 03:01 AM
full reinstall didnt work for me, though i didnt defrag, or copy my 4.01 conf file. just a straight reinstall.

will defraging really make that much of a difference? if so then i'll give it another go last night.

and does anyone know where i can get a copy of the default 4.01 conf? or will it be easier to make a copy of it as im reinstalling?

nakamura_kenji
10-26-2005, 03:07 AM
one config file ^_^

http://s62.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=2KUNUZ5WUJM3Z2ISVNGMM8PMBZ

Lord_Rhah
10-26-2005, 03:44 AM
cheers Kenji, i'll give that a try later on.
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

TX-EcoDragon
10-26-2005, 04:42 AM
Has anyone recorded a track of this? I've heard about it over and over but nobody has a track of it, and I'm curious.

jimDG
10-26-2005, 05:33 AM
Originally posted by ucanfly:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jimDG:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ucanfly:
I know that Oleg should not have to be blamed for crappy stick pots, but am I the only one that thinks that all the adjustments we have to make to our stick settings is compensating for a really crappy Joystick to FM interface design in the game?

stick to flight interface is almost all there is to ww2 fighter design. having a stick curve actually ruins fidelity. what we should be having is a sensitivity setting that we can put on a slider, so that we can adjust in game to compensate for short sticks. the way this should work is - at arround zero all 10 current stick bars are arround zero, at max - all 10 bars are close to 100%. EQUAL values. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Sorry , but I think adjustment to short sticks is something that should have been designed in the game, not left to the user to compensate for. Last time I looked there are not a hell of alot of us that use WWII length control sticks. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Constructive criticism please. How? I.e. I propose a sensitivity slider as a solution to what I think is the problem.

LEBillfish
10-26-2005, 05:39 AM
Originally posted by Lord_Rhah:
full reinstall didnt work for me, though i didnt defrag, .............will defraging really make that much of a difference? if so then i'll give it another go last night.?

Not to sound snide yet if you are asking that question you'd of been shocked at what defragging ALONE would have done for the sim & general PC performance........

Defrag..... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Lord_Rhah
10-26-2005, 05:44 AM
not snide at all, its just that i last defragged about a month a go, and i didnt notice any difference in performance with FB, or the rest of the PC for that matter.

i will definitly give it a go though.

Banger2004
10-26-2005, 06:27 AM
Just to add a bit more confusion, I was getting the 'wobblies' quite bad also, and after having tried various stick settings, I read somewhere in the forums that there was a possibility of the early release patch (first 24 hours or so I think) were possibly flawed.

I had downloaded my patch from UBI originally, so thought it could not hurt to download again, 3 days later.

I installed the newly downloaded patch over the old one, and voila, problem virtually eliminated, and I can still use the stick settings I was using pre 4.02m.

So far the sim works like a dream, but have only flown online for 30 mins, so will try some more tonight to see if it 'sticks'. I don't forsee any more problems though, other than my lack of finesse in the game. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

LEBillfish
10-26-2005, 07:10 AM
Originally posted by Banger2004:
Just to add a bit more confusion, I was getting the 'wobblies' quite bad also, and after having tried various stick settings, I read somewhere in the forums that there was a possibility of the early release patch (first 24 hours or so I think) were possibly flawed.

I had downloaded my patch from UBI originally, so thought it could not hurt to download again, 3 days later.

I installed the newly downloaded patch over the old one, and voila, problem virtually eliminated, and I can still use the stick settings I was using pre 4.02m.

So far the sim works like a dream, but have only flown online for 30 mins, so will try some more tonight to see if it 'sticks'. I don't forsee any more problems though, other than my lack of finesse in the game. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

That's always possible, would be nice if others would test that to save the balance the hassle of the re-install as once I "redownloaded" the 3rd time I think it may have changed.....

However, if it did indeed change and we were not informed, I cannot begin to explain my upset at having to fight this thing.

Yet I cannot confirm it had.

Chadburn
10-26-2005, 07:24 AM
Originally posted by LEBillfish:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Banger2004:
Just to add a bit more confusion, I was getting the 'wobblies' quite bad also, and after having tried various stick settings, I read somewhere in the forums that there was a possibility of the early release patch (first 24 hours or so I think) were possibly flawed.

I had downloaded my patch from UBI originally, so thought it could not hurt to download again, 3 days later.

I installed the newly downloaded patch over the old one, and voila, problem virtually eliminated, and I can still use the stick settings I was using pre 4.02m.

So far the sim works like a dream, but have only flown online for 30 mins, so will try some more tonight to see if it 'sticks'. I don't forsee any more problems though, other than my lack of finesse in the game. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

That's always possible, would be nice if others would test that to save the balance the hassle of the re-install as once I "redownloaded" the 3rd time I think it may have changed.....

However, if it did indeed change and we were not informed, I cannot begin to explain my upset at having to fight this thing.

Yet I cannot confirm it had. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Norris McWhirter looked at the two patches very early on when people were complaining that there was a difference. He did a binary level comparison between the original from Ubi's ftp and the one from Flying Legends and found they were identical.

Whatever people are experiencing is not from a "bad" patch. At least, there is no evidence that a bad patch exists.

Iron_Hand1
10-26-2005, 08:59 AM
Had a serious case of the "wobbles" here too. Was seeing graphic anomolies after the patch.
Most disconcerting problem though was trying to turn left or right, even the slightest movement caused a stall and spin. Heck I once stalled trying to push into a DIVE, lol.
Did a little reading about these problems from this forum and a few others. I was really dreading a reinstall as I didn't know all the files to save to keep my settings and all my missions, but I started taking notes anyway to prepare, lol. I figured I would try the patch reinstall first.
VIOLA! Reinstalled the patch and added 3 "clicks" of filtering to Pitch, Roll, and Yaw in hardware setup.
Wobbles gone.
Graphic problems gone.
Stalling problems gone (and gained a lot more E retention in all planes. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Thanks to Billfish and all others here for posting solutions! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

S~

Banger2004
10-26-2005, 11:13 AM
The Plot thickens!

I should have mentioned in my previous post that prior to patching my merged install, I did a clean install of standalone PF, downloaded the standalone patches (first day issue), and patched the game to see what the patch contained.

I noticed that the game was noticeably 'wobbly' straight away. On looking at the input menu, I was surprised to see that although Pitch and Roll were set to default settings, Yaw was set to 100 across the board. This was just from install, not with any input from me. Why would the setup routine make such settings?

Unfortunately, although I altered the Yaw settings to my preferences, it did not help. Sadly, I have since deleted the standalone PF, since I always play merged, so cannot try another, 'newer' patch. I might in the near future, to see if the 'newer' version gives the same settings.

I just hope that everyone finds a solution that suits them, whatever it may be. Certainly got a lot of people frustrated!

Retrofish
10-26-2005, 11:53 AM
Every install that I have made patched up or not, yaw has always been all hundreds. If you press default it will set the same values as pitch and roll.

I have a MS stick with twist rudder and found little to no wobbling with these settings:

1RZ 0 50 50 50 50 50 50 60 73 84 100 80

AH_Gonzo
10-26-2005, 12:11 PM
The problem is that this isn't a stick related issue. It's a patch issue. After I re-installed I purposely ran the game with stick settings set to default (For 4.01, I usually had the rudder set from 10-100 sequentially and 1 notch of filter set in pitch). Even with the stick to default, I was able to fly around as well without any adjustments. In fact, the only changes I€ve made now is a 1 notch addition in pitch. Everything else is still default. Before doing the re-install I spent 4 days of doing nothing but adjusting stick settings with little or no result.

Here€s a little more info: When I re-installed, I used the same patch that I had previously done so with. I did NOT re-download the patch. Could there be some error that maybe doesn€t allow all the files to be installed when patching?

martian04
10-26-2005, 06:12 PM
Well after the uninstall nearly wiped out my m/c [i lost explorer and could not connect!] i installed everything again on a partition tested all the way , noticed a change after 4.01m loaded 4.02m and hey presto..still fu..ed!

Well sick now i didn't understand the renaming files think so its not done but patches were re-downloaded from warbirds i think anyway they still dont work. My stick is a microsoft sidewinder precision2.

martian04
10-26-2005, 07:28 PM
Strange it isn't as bad as first impression different but i think adjustable. Flew on-line and got a kill impossible before re-instal! still not right but better and smoother on line anyway i need joystick settings from a happy sidewinder player.
I can line up sights better but wings still sway what setting in imput would improve this?

martian04
10-27-2005, 10:08 AM
Decided to ditch my ageing stick i think it on its way out. I keep losing full rudder movement and fire button stopped working properly. Had it 3yrs so worth the money hope this helps.