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View Full Version : Battle of Britain and HDR effects.



Airmail109
05-18-2005, 10:34 AM
I believe this is vital for olegs battle of britain to reach the next stage of realism. HDR simulates the way light is interpreted by the eye. this would be useful for example if you look towards the sun you would be blinded and once you look away it would take your eyes a sec to adjust. They are implemeting this into Half life 2s new addon. It would also add much more realistic lighting to the sky and so fouth as well as adding to the tactical element. The cockpits would look absoutely beutiful with this type of lighting!

LeadSpitter_
05-18-2005, 11:05 AM
I donr know if they can handle something that complex, swat4 has a very good flashbang effect which looks good, somthing that motion blurs scenery when looking left and right would be cool as well, better head shake effects among many other things so many can think of.

Capt.LoneRanger
05-18-2005, 04:06 PM
RavenShield3 had it, too, especially with teargas. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

But, honestly, I do care more about flight physics and weather system http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

Choctaw111
05-18-2005, 04:08 PM
I would just like to have it all!!!!!!

Airmail109
05-18-2005, 04:23 PM
google "half-life and HDR"......when you move from a dark to a light area it takes time for your eyes to adjust so you cant see detail as well, what HDR does is dynamicaly adjust the exposeure....taking away the "gamey" look to games, adding realism.

F16_Sulan
05-19-2005, 09:35 AM
It would be cool me thinks!
Might add more use of the sun...

But if it´s very demanding and only (that times) high-end systems can use it, then no one might use it online if it gives a visibility disadvantage?!

Airmail109
05-19-2005, 09:54 AM
I reckon BOB will come out in Q3 2006, by that time we will be running ATI R600s Shader model 4.0, and stupidly fast multi core cpus.....I reckon the PCs would be able to hack it, not to mention the physics processor would do some of the calculations for it or at least take the load off the GFX card. Yeah it may be a hit to lower end systems but BOB will make current systems look silly anyway.

KOM.Nausicaa
05-19-2005, 11:05 AM
Thats a very nice Idea. I don't think it would take too much CPU power, and it's true, the last generation of cards brought huge improvment (500% average, compared to the usual 30-50% in between the generations before that) and they will be standard next year.
A lot of nice thngs get possible now--have a look at Splinter Cell 3 f. ex.

OldMan____
05-19-2005, 11:17 AM
Originally posted by Aimail101:
I believe this is vital for olegs battle of britain to reach the next stage of realism. HDR simulates the way light is interpreted by the eye. this would be useful for example if you look towards the sun you would be blinded and once you look away it would take your eyes a sec to adjust. They are implemeting this into Half life 2s new addon. It would also add much more realistic lighting to the sky and so fouth as well as adding to the tactical element. The cockpits would look absoutely beutiful with this type of lighting!


Sorry but what you describe is not HRD lighting. High Range Dinamic Lighting is a effect created to counter the limitation of 255 ilumination levels that a pixel can have on a monitor, while in real life the illumination difference among looking to sun and to ground is much bigger than what you can have in your monitor. This allows for example : you are inside a cave, almost no light here, but you can still notice small luminosity changes, than as you go to cave antrance at same tiem you have highly dark enviroment you have a very bright light source. This illumination system will make all the rest of scenario to look darker in order to make the sun look bright enough in comparisson to the cave.


The thing you described is a failry easy illumination trick and can be implemented with a simple exposure counter used as parameter of the game pixel shaders.

VW-IceFire
05-19-2005, 12:10 PM
I think this is a very doable and important effect to achieve as it heightens the realism of the images on screen.

OldMan____
05-19-2005, 12:39 PM
In fact I dont think we would see much difference by using HDR, yjat is a feature that have very little effect when you are outiside environment.

p1ngu666
05-19-2005, 06:55 PM
Originally posted by OldMan____:
In fact I dont think we would see much difference by using HDR, yjat is a feature that have very little effect when you are outiside environment.

remmber early planes have a more greenhouse like canopeees http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

JS312RAF
05-24-2005, 11:41 AM
HDR was already implented to FarCry.. (for those who want to see it in action)

ebonheart_2_329
05-29-2005, 10:03 AM
Half-Life 2 is really something.... if you had a flight sim with those qualities.... WOW! and Half-Life 2 has alot of 'advanced physics' and stuff... but it would be quiet hard to implament into a flight sim... and would probably kill my PC at the start menu.... and HL-2 has a neat start menu, while your sitting there messing with your settings thers stuff going on in the background. 8-)

Airmail109
05-29-2005, 10:36 AM
Originally posted by OldMan____:
In fact I dont think we would see much difference by using HDR, yjat is a feature that have very little effect when you are outiside environment.

it said something similar to this in pc gamer "when you move from a dark to a light area it takes time for your eyes to adjust so you cant see detail as well, what HDR does is dynamicaly adjust the exposeure....taking away the "gamey" look to games, adding realism." it

Now Half life 2 is getting this....."yjat is a feature that have very little effect when you are outiside environment".....that is utter BS LOL go and take a look at the screenshots of the new "half life 2 lost coast" map......youll be suprised at the differences it makes. For example...the horizon looks very different!

""In all current games, including Half-Life 2 the lighting is wrong," he admits in the PC Gamer piece. "Part of the gamey look is the inconsistency between the sky, the lighting, and the reflections. They don't look the way that they should." Looking out over the grey skies of North West London, we're quite sure we'd rather they looked like the nice blue ones featured in the gorgeous screenshots released so far. Having said that though, the sun's just come out. The power of positive thinking, eh?

"The only way to solve this is if we do what a real camera does, and that's dynamically adjust the exposure (note dynamically oldman_) depending on what you look at. If look at the dark spots they will have a bigger exposure, the bright spots have a smaller exposure," Antonov explains in PC Gamer. "If I took a photograph of a sky, everything on the ground will appear much darker, in order to read the detail in the sky. If I wanted the correct lighting to show up the foreground, the sky becomes completely bright - overexposed. I lose the detail," he says.

"We use software to paint in the different exposure levels. We had to create every asset specifically for this; it creates more work for our art teams than what's gone before. For each sky, we draw it four times, for each area," Anatov adds in the PC Gamer exclusive. Screenshots certainly give a decent impression of how this works, with a series of shots taken from within a series of pillars and archways initially blinding the player with bleached out light, before adjusting to the flood of sunshine and returning to normal.

Blinded by the light
And as Valve's designer Robin Walker points out in the same PC Gamer piece, this has gameplay implications. "If you jump out of a dark space into a light area you're going to be blinded. It's going to be really bright until your eyes adjust. It can be used the other way around, too. Hide from a monster in a dark area and it will take a couple of seconds to go from a silhouette to detail," he says.

Thinking about it for a moment, it could have terrifying implications for how we play games. Tim Edwards, the writer of the PC Gamer piece in fact witnesses a section where Gordon is lead into the church (with a screenshot revealing incredibly detailed bump mapping techniques enabling Valve to truly go to town on creating photorealistic murals and gorgeously ornate gold incense burners hanging from the ceiling), with a chopper clearly heard in the distance. Before you know it, the chopper opens fire, blasts through the stained glass windows, sending bright light streaming into the hall. As if by way of demonstration, the light bleaches out your view, making it incredibly tough to even see what's attacking you. As Edwards notes "the light itself feels hostile".

To sum up the PC Gamer piece, Antonov admits this part of the unending push for true graphical realism in gaming: "In graphical media, the first objective has always been about photorealism. Real pictures. After that comes stylised images and art." But married to Valve's design sensibilities, it's shaping up to be an incredible partnership. Next generation, anyone?"

http://www.jucaushii.ro/en/image_aW1nL0hhbGYtTGlmZTItTG9zdENvYXN0LzAyLmpwZw== _SGFsZi1MaWZlIDI6IExvc3QgQ29hc3Qgc2NyZWVuc2hvdCAtI FBsYXlmdWxzLmNvbQ==

http://www.jucaushii.ro/en/image_aW1nL0hhbGYtTGlmZTItTG9zdENvYXN0LzAxLmpwZw== _SGFsZi1MaWZlIDI6IExvc3QgQ29hc3Qgc2NyZWVuc2hvdCAtI FBsYXlmdWxzLmNvbQ==

http://www.jucaushii.ro/en/image_aW1nL0hhbGYtTGlmZTItTG9zdENvYXN0LzAzLmpwZw== _SGFsZi1MaWZlIDI6IExvc3QgQ29hc3Qgc2NyZWVuc2hvdCAtI FBsYXlmdWxzLmNvbQ==

http://www.jucaushii.ro/en/image_aW1nL0hhbGYtTGlmZTItTG9zdENvYXN0LzA0LmpwZw== _SGFsZi1MaWZlIDI6IExvc3QgQ29hc3Qgc2NyZWVuc2hvdCAtI FBsYXlmdWxzLmNvbQ==

http://www.jucaushii.ro/en/image_aW1nL0hhbGYtTGlmZTItTG9zdENvYXN0LzA1LmpwZw== _SGFsZi1MaWZlIDI6IExvc3QgQ29hc3Qgc2NyZWVuc2hvdCAtI FBsYXlmdWxzLmNvbQ==

Images doesnt seem to work....oh well check the screenshots out here......http://www.jucaushii.ro/en/imgcateg_1051.html

OldMan____
05-29-2005, 04:26 PM
PC gamer is far from being a good source of technical data. I work on this for a living. I know how to implement it and have done it in a few tech demos.

Their explanations mixes a lot of correct stuff with a lot of incorrect stuff that has nothing to do with HDRL and is PONTUALLY PRESENT in same games stating HDRL.

Your eyes getting time to recoer from strong or weak linght is NOTHING related to HDRL. This can be done by a simple saturation value in a pixel shader. HDRL is something much more complex and different.


HDRL means that when you are at a light area the dark areas will look much darker.. and vice versa. Is not about changing from one area to the other. Both effect can be used combined to a much superior result and the former can be implemented inside the other , but are not related. There are technical names for these techniques, scientific published researchs and just puttin any kind of garbage under the name of a certain technique is soemthing I hate on PC gamer.