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Deputy1911
11-12-2008, 03:17 PM
If this topic has been brought up before, I apologize. I did a search but didn't find an answer. My problem is that under manual control the planes all seem to "bounce" when moving the joystick forward or backward (dive or climb). Almost impossible to get a good shot off that way. When I watch the AI controlling the plane, it's as smooth as silk. For now I'm using a Logitech gamepad with joystocks for control. I have the CH 568 Combatstick on order. Is it a joystick problem or is there a damping control I can activate to stop doing "the bounce"? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Divine-Wind
11-12-2008, 03:41 PM
It might be the way you're performing the move. If you really jerk the stick forwards/backwards it definitely won't be smooth. Maybe adjusting the throttle when you dive/climb would do something as well?


Edit: Trim might be another factor. The AI flies more or less perfectly trimmed, that might be why they slip around smooth as silk.

Schwarz.13
11-12-2008, 03:45 PM
Oh, i thought this was a thread about a dance move - wrong forum, sorry http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif

Sillius_Sodus
11-12-2008, 04:05 PM
Deputy1911,

IL2 was really designed to be flown with a joystick. If you are currently using a gamepad, the only thing I can think of is that the short throw of its small joysticks may be sending too large an input to the aircraft controls. You can try to adjust the sensitivity with the game's hardware adjustment application. If that does not work you may just have to wait until your CH arrives.

Sirrith
11-12-2008, 04:30 PM
For my logitech gamepad I have the settings something like this in the sensitivity: 0 0 15 30 55 75 100 100

this way I get a decent deadzone (because the gamepad isn't very accurate, and this way I wont get unwanted movements) and I get decent control when for aiming

Urufu_Shinjiro
11-12-2008, 04:39 PM
It's probably the joypad stick being so short on range of motion, you might want to add some filtering in the input section in the game to help a little.

Divine-Wind
11-12-2008, 04:41 PM
D'oh, I'd missed the bit about the gamepad.

Yeah a joystick will help a lot.

SeaFireLIV
11-12-2008, 05:04 PM
Originally posted by Deputy1911:
Is it a joystick problem or is there a damping control I can activate to stop doing "the bounce"? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

You bet it`s a joystick problem as in you don`t have one!

Get one.

Flying and attempting to dogfight with a gampad is a joke.

Deputy1911
11-12-2008, 05:07 PM
Thanks a ton for the input guys. The new joystick is on the way. I think I'll wait till it arrives before making any changes. May not need any at all. BTW...are rudders mandatory? I know you can make a tighter and more controlled turn with them. Rigt now I stand the plane on it's wingtip and yank back on the stick to make a sharp turn.

SeaFireLIV
11-12-2008, 05:09 PM
You should use rudder, but that can be set on your twist stick if it has that.

You don`t really need proper rudders until you`ve been at the game a while and feel it`s worth the cash pay out.

Divine-Wind
11-12-2008, 05:09 PM
YES



Rudders are an absolute necessity if you really want to be effective. They definitely help when it comes to aiming, as well a just fine adjustments in flight. That's just my opinion, though.

Gnomie
11-13-2008, 02:07 AM
Originally posted by Divine-Wind:
YES



Rudders are an absolute necessity if you really want to be effective. They definitely help when it comes to aiming, as well a just fine adjustments in flight. That's just my opinion, though.
I, too, have a problem with bouncing. I'm using a stick with a twist rudder. My problem is that when I apply rudder I "loose the feel" of the other two axes, which makes it very hard to be smooth.

This might be slightly OT, but what are the cheapest rudder pedals out there that "work"? I don't need fancy stuff with brakes and whatever, just some simple ones.

PanzerAce2.0
11-13-2008, 02:18 AM
Originally posted by Divine-Wind:
YES



Rudders are an absolute necessity if you really want to be effective. They definitely help when it comes to aiming, as well a just fine adjustments in flight. That's just my opinion, though.

What he said. After flying with rudders for just a short time, the only thing that will **** you off more than outright kills is when they take out your rudder controls. Take out my engine, take out my hydraulics, etc, thats fine, but leave my rudder alone.

Sirrith
11-13-2008, 03:49 AM
I think some of the cheap ones you can find on ebay for racing games will work, they just won't be spaced "properly" and they won't move like rudder pedals since they'll be designed to feel like car pedals.
Otherwise CH or Saitek pedals for around $99.

Gnomie
11-13-2008, 03:58 AM
I have a racing wheel, but a bit of googling seems to indicate that those pedals don't work very well with flight sims.

I thought flight sim pedals would be more expensive than that, to be honest. I'll look around! Thanks for the advice. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Jex_TE
11-13-2008, 03:59 AM
My main problem seem to be with the rudder in that it's too sensitive. My set up is something like 2,5,9,14,28,40,50,65,80,95 but for that pixel perfect shot, it just moves too much in the early stages. Would I be better starting with a constant number like 10,10,10? My rudder setting really does let me down when I use it to aim.

BSS_Goat
11-13-2008, 06:44 AM
Here is a video that explains the bounce:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5092681382458512545

Deputy1911
11-13-2008, 07:23 AM
Originally posted by BSS_Goat:
Here is a video that explains the bounce:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5092681382458512545

Yeah, that video is a perfect representation of what my planes are doing http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I used to fly Janes's Fighter Anthology and had the CH Pro rudder pedals. They worked great for assisting in tighter turns and for carrier landings. I'm just getting back into flight simming with Il-2. The CH pedals worked great in conjunction with the F-16 Combatstick. The way I understand it the 568 Combatstick is an improved version of the original. The big difference is when flying jets, you don't get the speed and altitude bleedoff like you do with prop planes in a steep banking turn. You just kick in the afterburners, yank the plane over into a full bank, and yank back on the joystick. The rudders helped to make the turn even tighter.

Dep

Deputy1911
11-14-2008, 03:40 PM
Good news!!!! I got my CH Combatstick and the bouncing Betty (or any other aircraft http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif )
is GONE!. All nice and smooth and my kill count is climbing rapidly. I may even get up the nerve to try some online combat. I haven't done that since the days of Microsoct CFS.

Dep

Sillius_Sodus
11-14-2008, 03:53 PM
Originally posted by Jex_TE:
My main problem seem to be with the rudder in that it's too sensitive. My set up is something like 2,5,9,14,28,40,50,65,80,95 but for that pixel perfect shot, it just moves too much in the early stages. Would I be better starting with a constant number like 10,10,10? My rudder setting really does let me down when I use it to aim.

Here is a thread on joystick settings. I think you will find your answers there. I use those settings and they work very well. The only changes I made are to change the initial rudder settings to 40 for the first six tabs instead of 50.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/5501083073

halfcool
11-14-2008, 06:03 PM
Deputy I had that problem even with my joystick. All those years of FPS'n made me twitchy, I've yet to over come it still. But A buddy told me to go into the calibration mode in game and for the X and Y axis's set the boxes in a exponential climb.

So the first box will read 2, the next 4, the next 8, the next 16 and so on until the last box is 100. This will make your sensitivity when moving the joystick a lot softer for little tweaks to get your aim right but doesn't hinder you're ability to take tight turns.

Deputy1911
11-14-2008, 09:20 PM
Half: The new joystick cured my problems completely. Didn't have to change any of the sensitivity settings at all. And I can make a heck of a tight turn without losing as much speed and altitude now that I have a joystick. I'm not even sure I need rudder pedals unless I do some real serious online combat. I did download the Hyper Lobby program for online flying, but when I checked the setting people were flying at, it pretty much scared me off. Seems like every single scenario was set at absolute maximum reality settings. Not exactly the best way to learn online combat. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Divine-Wind
11-15-2008, 01:06 AM
I disagree: If you intend to play full real servers, coops, and the like, then full real servers are probably the best places to learn. Hop on the server's voice comms (If it has any), and listen in. Even if you don't find a wingman, at least you'll know what's going on. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Hrannar
11-15-2008, 04:49 AM
Totally agree with Divine-Wind: get TeamSpeak (http://www.teamspeak.com/) and get cracking, many experienced players will gladly show you the ropes, even old farts like me learn something new when going into battle with someone I've never met before on voice comms.

Deputy1911
11-15-2008, 08:07 AM
I guess I am just used to Microsoft CFS and Janes Fighters Anthology. You joined a furball with unlimited ammo and did your thing. No takeoffs. No landings. No bombing No missions. Just instant dogfigts. Are there any servers that are more keyed to that type of "instant action" scenario?

Jex_TE
11-15-2008, 08:17 AM
Thanks Sillius http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Divine-Wind
11-15-2008, 09:44 AM
Originally posted by Deputy1911:
I guess I am just used to Microsoft CFS and Janes Fighters Anthology. You joined a furball with unlimited ammo and did your thing. No takeoffs. No landings. No bombing No missions. Just instant dogfigts. Are there any servers that are more keyed to that type of "instant action" scenario?
Plenty of them. Off the top of my head, I believe the 334th sever has a nice balance between arcade and realism. (External views, but cockpit on... Or maybe that was off as well, can't remember)

Just look around in Hyperlobby, you'll find plenty of servers.

Deputy1911
11-15-2008, 10:30 AM
Well I've been lookin' but haven't found one geared for what I want. Must be a 145th Provisional Newbie Testing Squadrron around somewhere. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Aaron_GT
11-15-2008, 10:37 AM
Have a look in the Squadron forum and find a group of like-minded but more experienced players.

Sillius_Sodus
11-15-2008, 11:52 AM
Originally posted by Deputy1911:
Half: The new joystick cured my problems completely. Didn't have to change any of the sensitivity settings at all. And I can make a heck of a tight turn without losing as much speed and altitude now that I have a joystick. I'm not even sure I need rudder pedals unless I do some real serious online combat. I did download the Hyper Lobby program for online flying, but when I checked the setting people were flying at, it pretty much scared me off. Seems like every single scenario was set at absolute maximum reality settings. Not exactly the best way to learn online combat. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Hey Deputy1911,

When I first started playing this game, I flew with very relaxed settings, no CEM, no Torque effects, no t/o or landings, etc. It was all a bit daunting and frankly, I do it irl so I couldn't be bothered to do it in a game. i flew strictly offline.

I finally took the online plunge with a squad that flies full switch, everything on. I was surprised to find out that the aircraft are actually easier to fly and it didn't take long at all to get used to not having any exterior views.

So here is a very brief rundown on what full switch is like:

CEM is not that difficult and there isn't all that much to do. In German aircraft almost everything is automatic. For the rest, I use three prop pitch settings, 100% for take off, 90% for climb and combat, 80% for cruise. This will be ok for most situations.

Mixture and Supercharger: 95% of your flying will probably be below 2500m/8000ft so just leave them alone.

Torque effects: As I said earlier, the aircraft seem easier to fly with this on.

T/o and landing: You can learn this in a few hours. The aircraft tend to swing one way or the other on t/o so don't forget to lock the tailwheel before you apply power.

Stalls and spins: Part of flying, leave this on, stalls and spins aren't that hard to avoid or get out of so leave this on. It will only take a few flights to get the hang of it.

The AI does not suffer from blackouts or redouts but humans do so leave it on.

Realistic gunnery on is the only way to go.

Admittedly this list is short and it is only my personal opinion on the matter but you'll get much more out of IL2 with the stuff on.

Sillius_Sodus
11-15-2008, 01:51 PM
Hey Deputy1911,

I forgot to mention a few things in my last message. You will need to use cowl flaps to prevent overheating. 2 to 4 should do for climb and cruise, 6 to open for combat.

As a quick and dirty guide, here is what I use. Please bear in mind that these settings will not give you absolute best performance but they should give you a good start. Once you get more time in the game you can play around with the settings for different aircraft and situations.

T/O:
Prop Pitch 100%, mixture 100% (120% if you are taking off from a carrier - more power - don't forget to dial it back down right after t/o. Cowl flaps as desired.

Climb:
Pitch 90%, throttle 90%, cowl flaps 4. This setting is good for normal climb.

Cruise:
Slow cruise (280-300 km/h) pitch 80%, throttle 40%-50%, cowl flaps 2 or 4. Fast cruise (350 km/h+) pitch 80%, throttle 70%-80%, cowl flaps 2 to 6.

Combat: Pitch 90%-95%, throttle as necessary, cowl flaps full open or auto.

As long as you remain below 2500m/8000ft you don't really need to deal with mixture or supercharger settings. Mixture 100% and supercharger setting 1 should do fine.

Drive 'er like you own 'er.

Divine-Wind
11-15-2008, 02:09 PM
Sorry to pile on even more advice, but I'd recommend getting comfortable with using trim. It can help squeeze out that much more speed, or give you a little more manueverability, if used correctly.

Generally all I use are rudder and elevator trim, as they both seem to cover the ailerons quite nicely.

Deputy1911
11-15-2008, 02:11 PM
Aaron: will do on checking out the squadrons. I still haven't located the 334th that Divine mentioned.

Sillius: I've only had the sim for about a week now. I've been flying a campaign vs the AI with an He-111 and it's a lot of fun. Much better than CFS.
I was only able to takeoff once with everything set to realistic. I think it was the Finnish B239 I was flying. Torque was just unreal. I looked like a drunken sailor taking off, and it was sheer luck that I got in the air without crashing. I only have the joystick for now, although it looks like a CH Pro Rudder is in my future. Between fiddling with the rudder Z-X keys, and the joystick controls, I feel like I'm doing that trick of rubbing my belly and patting my head at the same time. Heck, I can DO that!!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I think I have two choices for online play...
#1 I can try and find a squadron that uses settings that match my current skill level until I improve at the takeoff-landing and realism thing.
#2 I can start my own game with the settings set my way and see if I can get other newbs to join. I used to be a squadron leader in CFS and we all had a great time using settings that were pretty "casual" and gradually learning that way. I don't mind takeoffs and landings during a campaign game vs the AI. But I prefer to get "down and dirty" immediately when I am online. But that's just me. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Dep

Sillius_Sodus
11-15-2008, 02:22 PM
Yes, a one armed paper hanger comes to mind when playing... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Divine-Wind
11-15-2008, 02:42 PM
Originally posted by Deputy1911:
Aaron: will do on checking out the squadrons. I still haven't located the 334th that Divine mentioned.
Hmm, it was up last time I checked, maybe they took it down.

In any case, you can just fire up Hyperlobby and look through the listed servers to see if anyone has the settings you want.

Deputy1911
11-15-2008, 03:35 PM
Geez you guys are great! Thanks a ton for the info http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif
Quick question on trim...when I am flying I notice that my aircradft has a tendancy to climb. I tried adjusting the trim controls but they don't seem to solve the problem. Is it also a matter of throttle settings?

Deputy1911
11-15-2008, 03:37 PM
Originally posted by Divine-Wind:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Deputy1911:
Aaron: will do on checking out the squadrons. I still haven't located the 334th that Divine mentioned.
Hmm, it was up last time I checked, maybe they took it down.

In any case, you can just fire up Hyperlobby and look through the listed servers to see if anyone has the settings you want. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'll go check again. Thanks again for the heads-up http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Divine-Wind
11-15-2008, 03:43 PM
Originally posted by Deputy1911:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Divine-Wind:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Deputy1911:
Aaron: will do on checking out the squadrons. I still haven't located the 334th that Divine mentioned.
Hmm, it was up last time I checked, maybe they took it down.

In any case, you can just fire up Hyperlobby and look through the listed servers to see if anyone has the settings you want. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'll go check again. Thanks again for the heads-up http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Just look for 334th_Dedicated or something similar...


On the subject of missing servers, does anyone know if Raven still has his WWI server going?

Deputy1911
11-15-2008, 04:12 PM
Just checked. It's working.

Divine-Wind
11-15-2008, 04:38 PM
Originally posted by Deputy1911:
Geez you guys are great! Thanks a ton for the info http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif
Quick question on trim...when I am flying I notice that my aircradft has a tendancy to climb. I tried adjusting the trim controls but they don't seem to solve the problem. Is it also a matter of throttle settings?
Which aircraft are you flying? Not all are equipped with elevator trim. (Although those are mostly early war planes)

Deputy1911
11-15-2008, 04:56 PM
He-111.