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XyZspineZyX
06-24-2003, 11:21 AM
Just so you dont think I am "distracted" by the P-38. The P-80 will be complete any day now.

http://gibbageart.havagame.com/images/p-80-25.jpg


Gib

"You dont win a war by dieing for your country. You win a war by making the other fool die for his country."

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XyZspineZyX
06-24-2003, 11:21 AM
Just so you dont think I am "distracted" by the P-38. The P-80 will be complete any day now.

http://gibbageart.havagame.com/images/p-80-25.jpg


Gib

"You dont win a war by dieing for your country. You win a war by making the other fool die for his country."

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XyZspineZyX
06-24-2003, 11:23 AM
Woo Hoo about time we had a jet to rip them 262's apart with it's bloody hard work with a prop fighter /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

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XyZspineZyX
06-24-2003, 11:25 AM
good job gibbage

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XyZspineZyX
06-24-2003, 11:56 AM
Well, i must say, fantastic work .

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XyZspineZyX
06-24-2003, 03:11 PM
we'll need to start gettings some jet servers

XyZspineZyX
06-24-2003, 03:33 PM
Ah, now that is good stuff. 262's beware.

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XyZspineZyX
06-24-2003, 09:15 PM
Is there many more gauges than that going in there? Seems like not very many, but Ive never seen the cockpit of one.

BTW there is one up on a pole next to the VFW north of my town, pretty sweet looking.

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"We could do with some of those razor blades, Herr Reichsmarshall."
When Erwin Rommel that British fighter-bombers had shot up my tanks with 40mm shells, the Hermann G├┬Âring who felt himself touched by this, said: "That's completely impossible. The Americans only know how to make razor blades." and the above was Rommels reply.

XyZspineZyX
06-24-2003, 09:35 PM
Gibbage, has Oleg or anyone else told you what will happen to your creation once finished. When it'll be available, how it will be distributed etc. ? I understand you may not be able to give much away at this stage, i'm just looking forward to flying it....looks great !


Lixma,

Blitzpig.

XyZspineZyX
06-24-2003, 09:41 PM
Gibbage, your work is wonderful. Can I ask you to make the Wildcat or the Hellcat?


PLZ./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif



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XyZspineZyX
06-24-2003, 10:27 PM
ok, the max speed of this bad boy is 967 mph.

Thats about 2000 km/h.

where the B-1 (super fast) looses control at 800 km/h.

so, in other words, this is more than twice as fast as anything else . . . .

Imagine the bnz possibilities! . .

I wonder if the will make is so that you can't hear it approaching if its super sonic?

XyZspineZyX
06-24-2003, 10:35 PM
Aflak wrote:
- ok, the max speed of this bad boy is 967 mph.
-
- Thats about 2000 km/h.
-
- where the B-1 (super fast) looses control at 800
- km/h.
-
- so, in other words, this is more than twice as fast
- as anything else . . . .
-
- Imagine the bnz possibilities! . .
-
- I wonder if the will make is so that you can't hear
- it approaching if its super sonic?
-
-

Correction: 967mph = 1547kph
where 1 mile = about 1.6 kilometers.

Is that really the max speed of the P-80? sounds like a lot, maybe in a dive?

"An asshat this one is." - What an ace said of RayBanJockey during a fight when he was becoming the arcade shooter self-proclaimed ace he still is. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
06-24-2003, 10:52 PM
that is a lot, what's mach 1 equal to?

XyZspineZyX
06-24-2003, 10:52 PM
Couldn't find my copy of Jane's real fast but these are the specs. on the P-80A. They should be accurate.
Max. speed : 558 mph (898 km/h)
Cruising speed: 410 mph
service ceiling: 45,000 ft. (13715 m)
Range: 540 miles (869 km)
Armament: 6 - .50 in. machine guns (plus two 1,000 lb. bombs or 10 - 5 inch rockets on F-80C)

Keep up the good work Gibbage! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
KickinMule

XyZspineZyX
06-24-2003, 10:57 PM
ahhh, i saw 967 mph figure on a random website, so I think your stats are more accurate.

mach 1 is about 750 mph.

doh, we almost had a supersonic plane. maybe in a dive.

XyZspineZyX
06-24-2003, 11:03 PM
Sweetness, can't wait for that thing to fly.



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XyZspineZyX
06-24-2003, 11:11 PM
First american supersonic fighter was the F100A wasnt it? The early models had a top speed of 760 mph at sea level, 852 mph at 35,000 feet.

--lbhkilla--

http://lbhskier37.freeservers.com/FW190.jpg .

"Ich bin ein Wuergerwhiner"

"We could do with some of those razor blades, Herr Reichsmarshall."
When Erwin Rommel that British fighter-bombers had shot up my tanks with 40mm shells, the Hermann G├┬Âring who felt himself touched by this, said: "That's completely impossible. The Americans only know how to make razor blades." and the above was Rommels reply.

XyZspineZyX
06-24-2003, 11:11 PM
/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif ahhhh, no. And from what I've read the 262 should retain alt/speed advantage.

Aflak wrote:
- ok, the max speed of this bad boy is 967 mph.
-
- Thats about 2000 km/h.
-
- where the B-1 (super fast) looses control at 800
- km/h.
-
- so, in other words, this is more than twice as fast
- as anything else . . . .
-
- Imagine the bnz possibilities! . .
-
- I wonder if the will make is so that you can't hear
- it approaching if its super sonic?
-
-



Roy Baty
III/7/JG2

"Be happy in your work!"
- Col. Saito

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XyZspineZyX
06-25-2003, 01:10 AM
Oleg said something about announcing an add-on once he gets back. It may have something to do with the P-80 and Go-229. We will see. ... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Gib

Lixma wrote:
- Gibbage, has Oleg or anyone else told you what will
- happen to your creation once finished. When it'll be
- available, how it will be distributed etc. ? I
- understand you may not be able to give much away at
- this stage, i'm just looking forward to flying
- it....looks great !
-
-
-
- Lixma,
-
- Blitzpig.
-



"You dont win a war by dieing for your country. You win a war by making the other fool die for his country."

<center>
http://gibbageart.havagame.com/images/sig01.jpg (http://gibbageart.havagame.com)
</center>

XyZspineZyX
06-25-2003, 01:12 AM
Great stuff!!!

Don't you ever sleep ?

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XyZspineZyX
06-25-2003, 01:13 AM
Lol. No. The P-80 was slightly faster. Had a much higher celine. The Me-262 would accell faster in a dive, but the P-80 could quickly catch it. Roll rate is better then a Fw-190, turn better then the Me-262. The P-80 was more of a "fighter" then the Me-262.

Gib

roybaty wrote:
- /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif ahhhh, no. And from
- what I've read the 262 should retain alt/speed
- advantage.
-
- Aflak wrote:
-- ok, the max speed of this bad boy is 967 mph.
--
-- Thats about 2000 km/h.
--
-- where the B-1 (super fast) looses control at 800
-- km/h.
--
-- so, in other words, this is more than twice as fast
-- as anything else . . . .
--
-- Imagine the bnz possibilities! . .
--
-- I wonder if the will make is so that you can't hear
-- it approaching if its super sonic?
--
--
-
-
-
-
- Roy Baty
- III/7/JG2
-
- "Be happy in your work!"
-- Col. Saito
-
- <center><a
- href="http://www.bloggerheads.com/mash_quiz/"
- target="mash"><img
- src="http://www.bloggerheads.com/mash_quiz/images/
- mash_henry_blake.jpg" width="205" height="95"
- border="0" alt="Click here to take the M*A*S*H
- quiz!"></a></center>



"You dont win a war by dieing for your country. You win a war by making the other fool die for his country."

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XyZspineZyX
06-25-2003, 02:05 AM
Gib- you are the man and your are also correct about the P-80. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

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Message Edited on 06/24/0306:05PM by UCLANUPE

XyZspineZyX
06-25-2003, 04:06 AM
The only problem is the P-80 is a late 1945 fighter while the Me 262 is a mid 1944 fighter. Comparing the two is like compairing the Yak 9D to the He 162. The real question is how does the P-80 stack up against planes of its own time period such as the He 162 and Go-229.

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As we all know, the Soviet Union had too many fighter pilots during WW2. So Stalin's scientists came up with a brillient way to solve this problem. They would make some of their pilots fly British made Hurricanes. The Hurricane was an uber flying coffin. It was designed to maximize pilot kills by providing nothing but fabric and a few wooden spars around the cockpit. This setup prevented the pilot from escaping easily while at the same time not interfering with enemy bullets and shrapnel trying to pass through it. The rest of the Hurricanes structure was designed to ricochet bullets and shrapnel into the cockpit. And thanks to the cockpits superb design, all of them would pass through the cockpit and the pilot inside with little difficulty. Of course the Hurricane's designers didn't stop there. In order for the Hurricane to become a flying coffin, they had to make it easy to shoot. They did this by making the Hurricane the slowest monoplane fighter in use at the time and even gave it a very bulky shape so that it would be easy to spot and hit. The final feature of the Hurricane was its ability to bury or cremate itself. And because it was made of biodegradable materials, the Hurricane was environmentally friendly after it buried itself. Because of these brillient features, the Hurricane was a perfect flying coffin and helped the Soviets solve the pilot surplus they were suffering.
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XyZspineZyX
06-25-2003, 04:17 AM
Were just gonna have to take up these two planes and seewhat its about.Im hoping for the GO229 since I find the shape killer and thats how I stand/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
06-25-2003, 04:20 AM
MD,

Don't be a party pooper. We want to blast the 262 into toothpicks.../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

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XyZspineZyX
06-25-2003, 04:27 AM
I think the Me-162 will win over the P-80. Also, the P-80 was not a late 1945. Try early 1945. Its not as far appart as you think.

Gib

Maj_Death wrote:
- The only problem is the P-80 is a late 1945 fighter
- while the Me 262 is a mid 1944 fighter. Comparing
- the two is like compairing the Yak 9D to the He 162.
- The real question is how does the P-80 stack up
- against planes of its own time period such as the He
- 162 and Go-229.
-

"You dont win a war by dieing for your country. You win a war by making the other fool die for his country."

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XyZspineZyX
06-25-2003, 04:30 AM
Cant wait for P80 and the P38. Speaking of...

Is there any kind of progress report for the lightning? Is the next few months too soon to hope for?


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XyZspineZyX
06-25-2003, 04:52 AM
Me162 only had 8 minutes worth of fuel I think.

XyZspineZyX
06-25-2003, 06:06 AM
How about the He-162, how will that fair against the P80?

--lbhkilla--

http://lbhskier37.freeservers.com/FW190.jpg .

"Ich bin ein Wuergerwhiner"

"We could do with some of those razor blades, Herr Reichsmarshall."
When Erwin Rommel that British fighter-bombers had shot up my tanks with 40mm shells, the Hermann G├┬Âring who felt himself touched by this, said: "That's completely impossible. The Americans only know how to make razor blades." and the above was Rommels reply.

XyZspineZyX
06-25-2003, 09:51 AM
As my old buddy Hoyett would say... "Noooooot toooooo goooood!!"
(any one here that listens to the big show will know what that means /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif lol)

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XyZspineZyX
06-25-2003, 10:35 AM
He-162 vs. P80?!?!? Buh bye He-162, if that P80 pilot is good though....

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XyZspineZyX
06-25-2003, 06:33 PM
Your thinking of the rockets Me-163. The He-162 had a single jet just behind the cockpit and over the body. I think it had about 30 mins to 1 hour of fuel. Plenty for online fights. Also, I stand behind my conclusion the He-162 would win. I dont know much about it, but in the game its a lot more nimble. It will be a force when it is released. A lot more then the 262 ever was.

Gib

Tsoman wrote:
- Me162 only had 8 minutes worth of fuel I think.
-
-



"You dont win a war by dieing for your country. You win a war by making the other fool die for his country."

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XyZspineZyX
06-25-2003, 07:08 PM
Gibbage1 wrote:
- Your thinking of the rockets Me-163. The He-162 had
- a single jet just behind the cockpit and over the
- body. I think it had about 30 mins to 1 hour of
- fuel. Plenty for online fights. Also, I stand
- behind my conclusion the He-162 would win. I dont
- know much about it, but in the game its a lot more
- nimble. It will be a force when it is released. A
- lot more then the 262 ever was.
-
- Gib
-
- Tsoman wrote:
-- Me162 only had 8 minutes worth of fuel I think.
--


30 mins is correct. Although I don't know whether this counts for full throttle.

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ShadowHawk__
06-25-2003, 07:25 PM
The He-162's more of a fighter than the Me-262. It's a lot lighter, and since it has only one engine that's centerline mounted it won't have rollrate issues like the 262. This thing will be able to fight with the best of them. Definitely excited to see the P-80 out too, give the allies a chance with all these German jets flying around. Should be a good fight against the 162 and one I'm definitely interested in seeing.

-Death From Above

XyZspineZyX
06-25-2003, 08:20 PM
Let's not forget one thing about that He162. Kids. Young kids. Kids with only a day or so of training sent up to intercept veteran bomber crews in a half wood/half metal/all eventual coffin airplane. Sorry, but the 162, even as historical as it is, somehow puts a greasy feel on a combat flight sim to me.


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XyZspineZyX
06-25-2003, 09:04 PM
lbhskier37 wrote:
- First american supersonic fighter was the F100A
- wasnt it? The early models had a top speed of 760
- mph at sea level, 852 mph at 35,000 feet.

First to be able to break the sound barrier in level flight IIRC.
The F-86 was transonic(would break the barrier in a shallow dive).


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XyZspineZyX
06-25-2003, 09:22 PM
I said the P-80 was a late 1945 fighter for one key reason, the date that it was actually sent to the fronlines with an active combat unit was late 1945. The Me 262 entered combat operations in significant strength in July-September 1944. The P-80 didn't reach similer strength until after the war in europe. A pair of P-80's did end up in Italy about a month or so before the war ended, but 2 P-80's (niether encountered the enemy) is insignifacant compaired to 1,200 Me 262's (only 300 saw combat). Another thing that should be mentioned is that the Me 262 and P-80A are not in the same class. The Me 262 is a heavy fighter and fighter-bomber, the P-80A is a light fighter (light for a jet, still pretty heavy though). The Me 262 is more appropriatly classed with planes such as the Meteor, and I doubt anyone would argue that the Me 262 wasn't vastly superior to that particular plane. The He 162 vs P-80A is far more appropriate and I honestly don't know which would be the winner. The AI He-162 is super agile, but so is the AI Pe-8 so that doesn't say a whole lot.

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As we all know, the Soviet Union had too many fighter pilots during WW2. So Stalin's scientists came up with a brillient way to solve this problem. They would make some of their pilots fly British made Hurricanes. The Hurricane was an uber flying coffin. It was designed to maximize pilot kills by providing nothing but fabric and a few wooden spars around the cockpit. This setup prevented the pilot from escaping easily while at the same time not interfering with enemy bullets and shrapnel trying to pass through it. The rest of the Hurricanes structure was designed to ricochet bullets and shrapnel into the cockpit. And thanks to the cockpits superb design, all of them would pass through the cockpit and the pilot inside with little difficulty. Of course the Hurricane's designers didn't stop there. In order for the Hurricane to become a flying coffin, they had to make it easy to shoot. They did this by making the Hurricane the slowest monoplane fighter in use at the time and even gave it a very bulky shape so that it would be easy to spot and hit. The final feature of the Hurricane was its ability to bury or cremate itself. And because it was made of biodegradable materials, the Hurricane was environmentally friendly after it buried itself. Because of these brillient features, the Hurricane was a perfect flying coffin and helped the Soviets solve the pilot surplus they were suffering.
http://www.bestanimations.com/Humans/Skulls/Skull-06.gif

XyZspineZyX
06-25-2003, 09:47 PM
The He162 seems to have made more of an impression on Eric Brown than the Me262. I think it's fair to say an He162 v. P-80 would be interesting.

And I think the Me262 is more of a bomber destroyer than anything else...just my .02.

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XyZspineZyX
06-25-2003, 11:33 PM
Hey Gib....

Thanks so much for your hard work.

Nothing but respect here for your obvious love of warbirds. We share that, and that's a good thing!

Keep up the great work.

BTW, my Pop flew the P-80, and T-33. The T-Bird may have been his favorite plane of all to fly. It was beloved by two full generations of US trainee pilots.

Dad said they were maneuverable, forgiving, and easy to fly.

He realized he needed reading glasses on one flight in a T-Bird. Apparently the dials in the T-33 were smaller than that in his usual mount, a F-101B Voodoo.

Anyway, thanks for this fantastic, gift of a historic plane.

XyZspineZyX
06-26-2003, 12:34 AM
Well you can argue game flight models to death. The He-162 vs P-80 battles did take place "offline" with SWOTL a while back. Having flown both in that game the real issue for the was always "proper" useage. The He-162 only had 30 min of fuel(at cruise speed) and 120 rounds for each weapon(higher than most german planes, but still low). It had cannons in SWOTL so could do a fair amount of damage if it got on target. The P-80 was faster, had lots more ammo and was a joy to fly.

Here is the real question for all of those in the "full real" crowd. When you use the He-162 in your missions do you set the AI to rookie, since kids were to fly this plane, not vets? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

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Message Edited on 06/25/0304:35PM by UCLANUPE

XyZspineZyX
06-26-2003, 01:05 AM
Also, if Oleg modeled "bad glue" would the He-162's tail fall off if you applied full rudder? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Gib

UCLANUPE wrote:
-
- Here is the real question for all of those in the
- "full real" crowd. When you use the He-162 in your
- missions do you set the AI to rookie, since kids
- were to fly this plane, not vets?

"You dont win a war by dieing for your country. You win a war by making the other fool die for his country."

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XyZspineZyX
06-26-2003, 01:19 AM
DrOOL

XyZspineZyX
06-26-2003, 01:42 AM
I would support that, but only if early Yaks lost wings on takeoff from time to time.

----------------------------------------
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As we all know, the Soviet Union had too many fighter pilots during WW2. So Stalin's scientists came up with a brillient way to solve this problem. They would make some of their pilots fly British made Hurricanes. The Hurricane was an uber flying coffin. It was designed to maximize pilot kills by providing nothing but fabric and a few wooden spars around the cockpit. This setup prevented the pilot from escaping easily while at the same time not interfering with enemy bullets and shrapnel trying to pass through it. The rest of the Hurricanes structure was designed to ricochet bullets and shrapnel into the cockpit. And thanks to the cockpits superb design, all of them would pass through the cockpit and the pilot inside with little difficulty. Of course the Hurricane's designers didn't stop there. In order for the Hurricane to become a flying coffin, they had to make it easy to shoot. They did this by making the Hurricane the slowest monoplane fighter in use at the time and even gave it a very bulky shape so that it would be easy to spot and hit. The final feature of the Hurricane was its ability to bury or cremate itself. And because it was made of biodegradable materials, the Hurricane was environmentally friendly after it buried itself. Because of these brillient features, the Hurricane was a perfect flying coffin and helped the Soviets solve the pilot surplus they were suffering.
http://www.bestanimations.com/Humans/Skulls/Skull-06.gif

XyZspineZyX
06-26-2003, 02:51 AM
Maj_Death wrote:
A pair of P-80's did end up in Italy about a
- month or so before the war ended,

In November, 1944

Regards,

SkyChimp

http://pages.prodigy.net/4parks/_uimages/corsairs.jpg

XyZspineZyX
06-26-2003, 03:22 AM
Gibbage1 wrote:

- Also, if Oleg modeled "bad glue" would the He-162's
- tail fall off if you applied full rudder? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


Probably not, since the tailplane of the He-162 is made out of metal/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif





http://people.aero.und.edu/~choma/lrg0645.jpg

"We are now in a position of inferiority...There is no doubt in my mind, nor in the minds of my fighter pilots, that the FW190 is the best all-round fighter in the world today."

Sholto Douglas, 17 July 1942

====================================
"I hit you so hard there would be tiny little ME-109's flying in circles around your head" - USAFHelos
====================================

XyZspineZyX
06-26-2003, 03:31 AM
Ahhhh Gibbage!! The work you do!!! I hope you get hired on at 1C or UBI or somewhere.....but after you finish this and the P-38../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif





<CENTER>http://www.world-wide-net.com/tuskegeeairmen/ta-1943.jpg <marquee><FONT COLOR="RED"><FONT SIZE="+1">"Straighten up.......Fly right..~S~"<FONT SIZE> </marquee> http://www.geocities.com/rt_bearcat

<CENTER><FONT COLOR="ORANGE">vflyer@comcast.net<FONT COLOR>
<Center><div style="width:200;color:red;font-size:18pt;filter:shadow Blur[color=red,strength=8)">99th Pursuit Squadron

XyZspineZyX
06-26-2003, 09:26 AM
I seriously doubt that skychimp. But even if you're right, then it was still only 2 of them. And if the US did get them there in November 1944, then they wern't production models, they would be late prototype versions. If you make that as your claim to them being late 1944 fighters rather than late 1945 fighters, then the Me 262 is a 1942 fighter/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif .

----------------------------------------
I/JG1 Oesau (http://jg1-oesau.org) is recruiting. Join us!

Stab.I/JG1Death at HL, Maj_Death at Ubi.com

As we all know, the Soviet Union had too many fighter pilots during WW2. So Stalin's scientists came up with a brillient way to solve this problem. They would make some of their pilots fly British made Hurricanes. The Hurricane was an uber flying coffin. It was designed to maximize pilot kills by providing nothing but fabric and a few wooden spars around the cockpit. This setup prevented the pilot from escaping easily while at the same time not interfering with enemy bullets and shrapnel trying to pass through it. The rest of the Hurricanes structure was designed to ricochet bullets and shrapnel into the cockpit. And thanks to the cockpits superb design, all of them would pass through the cockpit and the pilot inside with little difficulty. Of course the Hurricane's designers didn't stop there. In order for the Hurricane to become a flying coffin, they had to make it easy to shoot. They did this by making the Hurricane the slowest monoplane fighter in use at the time and even gave it a very bulky shape so that it would be easy to spot and hit. The final feature of the Hurricane was its ability to bury or cremate itself. And because it was made of biodegradable materials, the Hurricane was environmentally friendly after it buried itself. Because of these brillient features, the Hurricane was a perfect flying coffin and helped the Soviets solve the pilot surplus they were suffering.
http://www.bestanimations.com/Humans/Skulls/Skull-06.gif

XyZspineZyX
06-26-2003, 09:59 AM
Maj_Death wrote:
- then the Me 262 is a 1942 fighter http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Ha!

Nice work Gib, when are you gonna update your website with all these new shots?

Good luck.


Yours
Killjoy

Killjoy2k2 a Nominee for the "Funniest community member" in The UBISOFT Community Awards 2002

<A HREF="Http://Www.Lamby.Tk/" TARGET=_blank>
http://www.swissquake.ch/chumbalum-soft/forum/attachment.php3?s=&postid=57518
</A>
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Lamby.tk (Http://www.Lamby.tk)
Visit Lamby3D Forums at...
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KKS Forums (Http://members.lycos.co.uk/killjoyskillshack/forums/)

"All praise Killjoy!!!" - oFZo

Run, and I will see you.
Hide, and I will find you.
Fight, and I will kill you.
Terror from all directions.

UbiSoft's Angel
Killjoy2k2 , Killjoy , and dont forget YER!!! and maybe a MER!!!"

XyZspineZyX
06-26-2003, 10:16 AM
Hows the V1 and Meteor going Killy? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Killjoy2k2 wrote:
-
- Maj_Death wrote:
-- then the Me 262 is a 1942 fighter http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif
-
- Ha!
-
- Nice work Gib, when are you gonna update your
- website with all these new shots?
-
- Good luck.
-
-
-
- Yours
- Killjoy
-
-

"You dont win a war by dieing for your country. You win a war by making the other fool die for his country."

<center>
http://gibbageart.havagame.com/images/sig01.jpg (http://gibbageart.havagame.com)
</center>

XyZspineZyX
06-26-2003, 10:33 AM
ah.. the V1 project...wasnÔ┬┤t there also a Mossie on KilljoyÔ┬┤s (or his friendÔ┬┤s /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif ) production line?

btw: i loved the " U R ALL ***" - thread on il2center.com /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

XyZspineZyX
06-26-2003, 10:36 AM
Gibbage1 wrote:
- Hows the V1 and Meteor going Killy? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
-

Well the V1 and the Fi-103 got took by Xanty, I don't know what's happened with it but if he needs any reference i have 20mb's.

The Meteor is on my Hdd still waiting to be done up in max.

I have got it split into all of its named groups but don't know what to do next.

Yours
Killjoy

Killjoy2k2 a Nominee for the "Funniest community member" in The UBISOFT Community Awards 2002

<A HREF="Http://Www.Lamby.Tk/" TARGET=_blank>
http://www.swissquake.ch/chumbalum-soft/forum/attachment.php3?s=&postid=57518
</A>
Visit Lamby3D at...
Lamby.tk (Http://www.Lamby.tk)
Visit Lamby3D Forums at...
Lamby-3D Forums (Http://www.3dhangout.com/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?,v=mindex,b=Lamby3dtalk)
KKS Forums (Http://members.lycos.co.uk/killjoyskillshack/forums/)

"All praise Killjoy!!!" - oFZo

Run, and I will see you.
Hide, and I will find you.
Fight, and I will kill you.
Terror from all directions.

UbiSoft's Angel
Killjoy2k2 , Killjoy , and dont forget YER!!! and maybe a MER!!!"

XyZspineZyX
06-26-2003, 11:13 AM
Blue_smiley wrote:
- btw: i loved the " U R ALL ***" - thread on
- il2center.com

LOL /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif thank you for remind me, that was a good one.

<center>http://www.geocities.com/dangdenge/taosig.txt



TAO be my guide

XyZspineZyX
06-26-2003, 12:16 PM
SkyChimp wrote:
-
- In November, 1944

Lockheed YP-80A Shooting Star 44-83026 was built by Lockheed at its Burbank factory in California and was accepted/delivered to the UAAAF on the 4th December 1944 and was disassembled, boxed and shipped as deck cargo to Burtonwood with its sister aircraft 44-83027 on 15th December 1944, arriving on the 30th December 1944. Following the aircraft's arrival at Burtonwood, YP-80s number 004 and 005 took one month to be reassembled, due no doubt to the extremely cold weather. The pilots, Major Frederic Austin Borsodi and Colonel Marcus Cooper arrived in January 1945 and on the 27th, Colonel Cooper took 44-83026 for its first test flight. YP-80, 44-83027 was later destroyed in an accident on the 14th November 1945 testing the B-41 engine, the prototype of the Rolls Royce Nene turbojet. The other two YP-80 aircraft, 44-83028 and 44-83029, sent to Europe as part of this project, headed by Colonel George Price, were shipped to Italy. Even though they flew some operational sorties they never encountered any enemy aircraft, one crashed on 2nd August 1945 after its return to the US, the other ended its useful life as a pilotless drone.

http://www.geocities.com/kimurakai/SIG/262_01011.jpg


Kimura

RichardI
06-26-2003, 04:46 PM
lbhskier wrote:-
Is there many more gauges than that going in there? Seems like not very many, but Ive never seen the cockpit of one.

Everything else is on a slider. This will be RBJ's new mount of choice. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Rich /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

<Center>http://www.ghosts.com/images/postimages/THUNDERBOLT.jpg <Center>I've got 140 109's cornered over Berlin!

XyZspineZyX
06-26-2003, 06:02 PM
Personally I can't wait to spank the LuftLovers with my P80.

Thanks Gibbage!

<center><FONT color="red">[b]BlitzPig_EL</FONT>[B]<CENTER> http://old.jccc.net/~droberts/p40/images/p40home.gif
</img>.
"All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds, wake in the day that it was vanity:
but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible. "
--T.E. Lawrence

XyZspineZyX
06-26-2003, 06:48 PM
Hey KIMURA:

Could you please tell me the name of that Me262 skin and where I can get it? Vera nice.


<center>http://smack.telecom.ksu.edu/il2/images/trackwerks400.jpg (http://smack.telecom.ksu.edu/il2/)</center>

XyZspineZyX
06-26-2003, 08:16 PM
Will the p-80 be released in the upcoming patch?




http://www.indelibleinc.com/kubrick/films/fmj/images/fmj.gif


When you get to hell, tell 'em SnowsFoot sent you

XyZspineZyX
06-26-2003, 08:33 PM
BX man

go to here

http://www.il2skins.com/?action=display&skinid=19

http://www.geocities.com/kimurakai/SIG/262_01011.jpg


Kimura

XyZspineZyX
06-26-2003, 11:30 PM
The P-80 could shoot down Mig-15s at really low altitudes.
Migs would not take on P-80s down on the deck. Or Sabres for that matter. Mig-15 was strictly a high altitude plane.
That should tell you how good the P-80 is. It was the first plane to down a Mig-15. It was slower than the Mig but could out-manuever it easily down low. Wise Mig pilots disengaged from it and got the hell out of there, used their speed to bug-out.

XyZspineZyX
06-26-2003, 11:57 PM
mortoma wrote:
- The P-80 could shoot down Mig-15s at really low
- altitudes.
- Migs would not take on P-80s down on the deck. Or
- Sabres for that matter. Mig-15 was strictly a high
- altitude plane.
- That should tell you how good the P-80 is. It was
- the first plane to down a Mig-15. It was slower than
- the Mig but could out-manuever it easily down low.
- Wise Mig pilots disengaged from it and got the hell
- out of there, used their speed to bug-out.


Mortoma why don't you search for info first, before posting such crap. MiG-15bis was 70mph faster than F-80C at sea level, even faster at altitude, had much better power loading, better wing loading. Basically MiG-15 outruns, outturns, outclimbs, outdives and out-anything-you-want the poor F-80. Although this is true also for F-86 (except for max speed at sea level where F-86 had 10mph advantage/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif ).

XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 01:44 AM
And now it starts...

<center>http://mysite.verizon.net/tads/tennis.jpg

<font size="+1">$H!T! My scripts don't work. Aww heck...let's makeout</font></center>

XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 01:51 AM
P-80 was quite a bit slower, but I think it had a manuverability advantage. The first jet-to-jet air kill was a P-80 shooting down a Mig-15. And that was not the last kill. But online 1 on 1 I think the Mig 15 would win, but its not going to happen in IL2 FB.

Gib

mortoma wrote:
- The P-80 could shoot down Mig-15s at really low
- altitudes.
- Migs would not take on P-80s down on the deck. Or
- Sabres for that matter. Mig-15 was strictly a high
- altitude plane.
- That should tell you how good the P-80 is. It was
- the first plane to down a Mig-15. It was slower than
- the Mig but could out-manuever it easily down low.
- Wise Mig pilots disengaged from it and got the hell
- out of there, used their speed to bug-out.
-
-



"You dont win a war by dieing for your country. You win a war by making the other fool die for his country."

<center>
http://gibbageart.havagame.com/images/sig01.jpg (http://gibbageart.havagame.com)
</center>

XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 02:19 AM
Huckebein_FW wrote:
- mortoma wrote:
-- The P-80 could shoot down Mig-15s at really low
-- altitudes.

-
- Mortoma why don't you search for info first, before
- posting such crap. -


ditto...


After defeating the NKAF, UN air forces enjoyed a period of air supremacy until the arrival of the MiG-15 in November 1950. Initially flown in combat by Soviet pilots, and later by Chinese and North Koreans, the MiG-15 potentially threatened to wrest control of the air away from UN forces, as it seriously outclassed the best USAF fighter in Korea, the F-80C. Even so, F-80 pilots were able to turn inside the MiGs when attacked and scored some victories. In fact, on November 8, 1950, in the first jet-to-jet combat in history, Lt. Russell Brown scored the first victory against a MiG-15.

XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 02:21 AM
Huckebein_FW wrote:

- Mortoma why don't you search for info first, before
- posting such crap. MiG-15bis was 70mph faster than
- F-80C at sea level, even faster at altitude, had
- much better power loading, better wing loading.
- Basically MiG-15 outruns, outturns, outclimbs,
- outdives and out-anything-you-want the poor F-80.
- Although this is true also for F-86 (except for max
- speed at sea level where F-86 had 10mph
- advantage


Yet again, Huck demonstrates his knowledge to be on the same level as a child.

The MiG-15 could outmaunever the F-80. I suppose that's why F-80 pilots were told to TURN if they encountered MiGs, that;s because they could turn inside them.

And that nonsense you posted about the F-86? Which model? Becasue the F-86 was well known to be able to out turn and out roll the Mig at all but the very highest altitudes, and it had a speed advantage, especially the F model, up to about 20,000 feet.

Huck, when you allow your hatred for all things American to bias you posts, you really make yourself look foolish. If you want to simply write nonsense and bash American planes and pilots, perhaps another forum is in order. You really contribute nothing with such ignorant drivel.



Regards,

SkyChimp

http://pages.prodigy.net/4parks/_uimages/corsairs.jpg

XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 02:25 AM
Actualy Ive been waiting on the P-80, I have created the Chosin reservoir Scenario where both sides get to fly it.
It is set in Korea in 1950,when a million communist troops ruptured the United Nations Line driving the Americans back into the South East corner of Korea.

The P80 Won Air superiority in the Jet War over head in the fight back that followed, so it will be a Historical Scenario, although we do not have a Mig, this Jet was similiar and will do for both sides.

XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 03:27 AM
SkyChimp wrote:
-
- Huckebein_FW wrote:
-
-- Mortoma why don't you search for info first, before
-- posting such crap. MiG-15bis was 70mph faster than
-- F-80C at sea level, even faster at altitude, had
-- much better power loading, better wing loading.
-- Basically MiG-15 outruns, outturns, outclimbs,
-- outdives and out-anything-you-want the poor F-80.
-- Although this is true also for F-86 (except for max
-- speed at sea level where F-86 had 10mph
-- advantage
-
-
- Yet again, Huck demonstrates his knowledge to be on
- the same level as a child.

You show no signs of knowledge at all, so don't bother comment my posts. Just a couple of days ago you posted as a source for Bf-109 aerodynamics an article which used for Cd calculations a max speed of 610kmh. That's 60kmh below G2 max speed. Since drag increases with square of speed you should have known that all the results from those calculations are off by a wide margin. Yet you posted it just to make a fool out of yourself. Even that disgusting chimp from your avatar would blush from such stupidity.



- The MiG-15 could outmaunever the F-80. I suppose
- that's why F-80 pilots were told to TURN if they
- encountered MiGs, that;s because they could turn
- inside them.

What what should they advise them to do: climb, dive or outrun MIG-15? They gave them the best advice: fight, if you run you're dead meat anyway. Of course MiG-15 outturns F-80.



- And that nonsense you posted about the F-86? Which
- model? Becasue the F-86 was well known to be able
- to out turn and out roll the Mig at all but the very
- highest altitudes, and it had a speed advantage,
- especially the F model, up to about 20,000 feet.

Well known to be able to outturn MiG-15? Why? F-86 has poorer wing loading and power loading regardless of variant.

XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 03:40 AM
Huckebein_FW wrote:

- You show no signs of knowledge at all, so don't
- bother comment my posts. Just a couple of days ago
- you posted as a source for Bf-109 aerodynamics an
- article which used for Cd calculations a max speed
- of 610kmh. That's 60kmh below G2 max speed. Since
- drag increases with square of speed you should have
- known that all the results from those calculations
- are off by a wide margin. Yet you posted it just to
- make a fool out of yourself. Even that disgusting
- chimp from your avatar would blush from such
- stupidity.

Sure thing, Einstein.

Maybe you should take up this issue in the thread where the link to that study was posted. Or would too many people see your attempt to explain away the obvious? Your zealotry has become all too apparent, and I'm beginning to wonder about your mental health. It can't be good to harbor all that hatred. Though I understand it's probably safer to keep inside when you live in Detroit.



- What what should they advise them to do: climb, dive
- or outrun MIG-15? They gave them the best advice:
- fight, if you run you're dead meat anyway. Of course
- MiG-15 outturns F-80.

And what is your source for this revelation, Huck? And why do you think you are qualified to change history all on your own? You have no source and you aren't qualified. You are simply a zealot who hates Americans to such a degree that you resort to foolishness even at the expense of your own credibility.

You present youself as an expert on every single topic you delve into on these boards, yet you never back up your idiotic assertions with any credible sources. Typical.



- Well known to be able to outturn MiG-15? Why? F-86
- has poorer wing loading and power loading regardless
- of variant.

Again, your posts mean nothing. Direct comparison test state otherwise, as well as MiG pilots themselves.

Read..., oh never mind, you never read anything that might help you understand the subject. You have absolutely no compunction about making absurd claims, do you?



Just a perusal of the net woudl revlea to you that you are wrong about the F-86 versus MiG-15 turn:

===================

Boots Blesse, Korean War F-86 pilot says:
"So a MiG pilot had a lot to work with. But if you're an F-86 pilot you had a couple of things you could try with this gopher, and one of them is turn."

Huck says:
No! You see, I've got this chart, and...

===========================

No ***-Sok, North Korean MiG-15bis pilot that defected in 1953 says:
"The MiG-15 was good, but hardly the superfighter that should strike terror in the heart of the West.There was no question that the F-86 was the better fighter."


Huck says:
No! The MiG-15 was a copy of a German design, so it HAD to be better!

============================


USAF Museum says:
"Initially flown in combat by Soviet pilots, and later by Chinese and North Koreans, the MiG-15 potentially threatened to wrest control of the air away from UN forces, as it seriously outclassed the best USAF fighter in Korea, the F-80C. Even so, F-80 pilots were able to turn inside the MiGs when attacked and scored some victories."

Huck says:
That can't be, the wing loading thing, the wing loading thing!

===========================

Huck, your posts would be funny if you didn't actually believe the crap you write.





Regards,

SkyChimp

http://pages.prodigy.net/4parks/_uimages/corsairs.jpg



Message Edited on 06/27/0306:57AM by SkyChimp

XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 04:13 AM
Lets get this back on track. New screen shots.

Excuse the line in the middle and the boxes around the instraments. Its an error on Max.

Also, doing the panel is the most time consuming thing there is in modeling. One thing I DONT look forward to.

http://gibbageart.havagame.com/images/p-80-26.jpg


http://gibbageart.havagame.com/images/p-80-27.jpg


Gib

"You dont win a war by dieing for your country. You win a war by making the other fool die for his country."

<center>
http://gibbageart.havagame.com/images/sig01.jpg (http://gibbageart.havagame.com)
</center>

XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 04:15 AM
p80s looking great,

btw payware addons gibb? hope not

http://mysite.verizon.net/vze4jz7i/ls.gif

Good dogfighters bring ammo home, Great ones don't. (c) Leadspitter



Message Edited on 06/27/0303:17AM by LeadSpitter_

XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 04:28 AM
MiG~15 was better than F~86.

Because it had the British Nene engine. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

PS:: Soviet Union was part of the UN forces in Korea. Just a little reminder, about the first United Nations Civil WAR.

PSbis:: Gibbage, you need to post a pick with fluffy dice hanging in front of your P~80 windscreen/gunsight (but don't anybody try that with Fw190 puh~lease we have enough proplems).

Message Edited on 06/27/0303:31AM by LEXX_Luthor

XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 05:49 AM
SkyChimp wrote:
-- Well known to be able to outturn MiG-15? Why? F-86
-- has poorer wing loading and power loading regardless
-- of variant.
-
- Again, your posts mean nothing. Direct comparison
- test state otherwise, as well as MiG pilots
- themselves.

Direct comparison for turning performance SkyChimp? Never heard of that. Would you mind posting the report of that particular test?



- Just a perusal of the net woudl revlea to you that
- you are wrong about the F-86 versus MiG-15 turn:
-
- ===================
-
- Boots Blesse, Korean War F-86 pilot says:
- "So a MiG pilot had a lot to work with. But if
- you're an F-86 pilot you had a couple of things you
- could try with this gopher, and one of them is
- turn."
-
- Huck says:
- No! You see, I've got this chart, and...

He says you COULD TRY not that F-86 has better turn characteristic. Early jets had the best sustained turn rate at about 5G (ww2 piston planes had it at 3G). That's very demanding on the pilot. So yes for an ace (like Boots Blesse) turning with MiGs might be the best solution, since he could surely stand the Gs. But that's in no way a proof that F-86 could outturn a MiG if driven by equally qualified pilots.


Here's the full quote:

"Q: Compare the MiG-15 to the F-86 Sabre.

Blesse: Air-to-air fight was like a game. You had to know the rules. You had to know what you could do and what he could do. We had pretty good information on the MiG. It was a point defense airplane, smaller and lighter than the Sabre; it didn't carry as much fuel. Consequently it could out-climb us at any altitude and had more than double our rate of climb above 25,000 feet. It could outrun us at any altitude. So a MiG pilot had a lot to work with. But if you're an F-86 pilot you had a couple of things you could try with this gopher, and one of them is turn. You don't want to try to outclimb him if he's behind you. So you measure these things into the fact. When you first sight him you hope to get an advantage by getting in his rear quarter. You know that he's immediately gonna turn into you, and you need to know how to respond. You close in as close as you can. With fifty caliber machine guns you gotta get within 1200 feet to do any good. Most of the airplanes I shot down were within 400 to 1000 feet.

It's a matter of training and practice. What if he turns into you and gets too close, and you can't make that turn? You gotta know what to do. You gotta know that the nose goes up, and let him come down, and then when you come around you'll still be behind him. If you try to stay on his plane, you're gonna stall your aircraft. Pretty soon you're in trouble because he's gonna reverse his turn, and you're gonna be on the outside going away from him, and you're going to have him behind you. That's what we tried to teach. We tried to make sure that our people didn't unnecessarily expose themselves to a disadvantageous position in combat."



-
- USAF Museum says:
- "Initially flown in combat by Soviet pilots, and
- later by Chinese and North Koreans, the MiG-15
- potentially threatened to wrest control of the air
- away from UN forces, as it seriously outclassed the
- best USAF fighter in Korea, the F-80C. Even so, F-80
- pilots were able to turn inside the MiGs when
- attacked and scored some victories."
-
- Huck says:
- That can't be, the wing loading thing, the wing
- loading thing!


Turning inside (better turn radius) doesn't mean outturning (better turn rate). But you make this confusion every time. Il-2 and most early medium bombers could turn inside late war fighters. Does that mean that early war bombers could outturn late war fighters? Of course not.

Turn radius performance can be easily compared by looking at stall speeds - better stall speed in clean config results in better turn radius. IIRC stall speed for MiG-15 loaded in clean config is around 145mph. I don't have right now a good stall speed number for P-80, it can be better but not by a significant margin. So yes there is a possibility for F-80 to turn inside MiG-15, but since MiG-15 had both power and wing loading better than F-80, it surely outperforms F-80 in sustained turns (i.e. outturns it/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif )


PS I'm sorry Gibbage for this little diversion, I really appreciate your efforts, that's a very nice update on P-80.
And hey, thanks for those pics/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 06:12 AM
Huck. Please go away. Make your own thread if you want to compair the F-86 to the Mig-15.

Gib

Huckebein_FW wrote:


"You dont win a war by dieing for your country. You win a war by making the other fool die for his country."

<center>
http://gibbageart.havagame.com/images/sig01.jpg (http://gibbageart.havagame.com)
</center>

XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 06:21 AM
Huckebein_FW wrote:

- Direct comparison for turning performance SkyChimp?
- Never heard of that. Would you mind posting the
- report of that particular test?

Would I mind posting? You mean, would I mind providing you with information because you are too lazy to look for it yourself?

What do you think happendd to that MiG-15bis that was flown to the south in 1953?

From it, the USAF determined the F-86 could outturn the MiG-15 except at high altitude, the F-86 could roll better at all speeds and all alttiudes (up to 240 degrees per second), it was faster up to about 24,000 feet, and it was a much more refined plane. They also discovered the MiG-15 could not go supersonic even in a vertical dive from 50,000 feet, yet the F-86 could break mach 1 in a shallow dive.

Yeager, who participated in the evaluations stated "the MiG-15 is a quirky plane that will kill its pilot given the chance."



- He says you COULD TRY not that F-86 has better turn
- characteristic. Early jets had the best sustained
- turn rate at about 5G (ww2 piston planes had it at
- 3G). That's very demanding on the pilot. So yes for
- an ace (like Boots Blesse) turning with MiGs might
- be the best solution, since he could surely stand
- the Gs. But that's in no way a proof that F-86 could
- outturn a MiG if driven by equally qualified pilots.

You don't understand that the turn test based on wing loading and power to weight only gives an idea under ideal conditions. How does your theory work when the MiG-15 snap rolls, violently, when it attemtps sustained high-g turns?

You seem to think that wing loading and PTW and the only determinans when deciding which plane could turn better, and by doing so you utterly fail to take into account the character of a plane and how it reacts under such conditions. For the MiG-15, it snap rolled and spun very easily, not so the F-86. The F-86 could much more easily endure sustained high-g turns that the MiG-15 pilot not dare try.



- Turning inside (better turn radius) doesn't mean
- outturning (better turn rate). But you make this
- confusion every time. Il-2 and most early medium
- bombers could turn inside late war fighters. Does
- that mean that early war bombers could outturn late
- war fighters? Of course not.

I know you seem to think you know it all, but USAAF pilots and the North Korean defector that delivered the MiG-15bis to US forces say you are worng. I think I'lll go with they that know what they are talking about.



- Turn radius performance can be easily compared by
- looking at stall speeds - better stall speed in
- clean config results in better turn radius. IIRC
- stall speed for MiG-15 loaded in clean config is
- around 145mph. I don't have right now a good stall
- speed number for P-80, it can be better but not by a
- significant margin. So yes there is a possibility
- for F-80 to turn inside MiG-15, but since MiG-15 had
- both power and wing loading better than F-80, it
- surely outperforms F-80 in sustained turns (i.e.
- outturns

In sustained turns the MiG-15 was unstable and stalled violently usually ending up in a spin that was very difficult to recover from.



- PS I'm sorry Gibbage for this little diversion, I
- really appreciate your efforts, that's a very nice
- update on P-80.
- And hey, thanks for those pics

You're not sorry, you take every opportunity to slam Americans and American planes. It's your nature.


Regards,

SkyChimp

http://pages.prodigy.net/4parks/_uimages/corsairs.jpg

XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 06:25 AM
Gibbage1 wrote:
- Huck. Please go away. Make your own thread if you
- want to compair the F-86 to the Mig-15.
-
- Gib


OK Gib, I got it/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 07:05 AM
Same for you SC. Take it in another thread. P-80 is the topic. Not Mig-15 and F-86.

Gib

SkyChimp wrote:
-
- Huckebein_FW wrote:
-

"You dont win a war by dieing for your country. You win a war by making the other fool die for his country."

<center>
http://gibbageart.havagame.com/images/sig01.jpg (http://gibbageart.havagame.com)
</center>

XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 07:07 AM
Gib whats the word on the addon, is it going to be payware? If you can't say say you cant say http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

And skychimp when I look at the footer image of the carrier and corsairs, i see fbs water fxs there it makes me want hijack gibbage and make him design them by gunpoint http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Im serious

http://mysite.verizon.net/vze4jz7i/ls.gif

Good dogfighters bring ammo home, Great ones don't. (c) Leadspitter



Message Edited on 06/27/0306:11AM by LeadSpitter_

XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 07:11 AM
Um...........

Gib

LeadSpitter_ wrote:
- Gib whats the word on the addon, is it going to be
- payware? If you can't say say you cant say http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
-
- And skychimp when I look at the footer image or the
- carrier and corsairs, i see fbs water fxs there it
- makes me want hijack gibbage and make him design
- them by gunpoint http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Im serious
-
- http://mysite.verizon.net/vze4jz7i/ls.gif
-
- Good dogfighters bring ammo home, Great ones don't.
- (c) Leadspitter
-
-
-
- Message Edited on 06/27/03Ô 06:11AM by
- LeadSpitter_



"You dont win a war by dieing for your country. You win a war by making the other fool die for his country."

<center>
http://gibbageart.havagame.com/images/sig01.jpg (http://gibbageart.havagame.com)
</center>

XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 05:57 PM
Well I did forget that the Mig-15 could outclimb a P-80 too, not just out run it. But the Mig could outclimb anything. But the fact is the Mig pilots did not go low
ususally and I think there was a reason for it. They could pick and chose when and where to fight since they could sit up higher than anything else, but I think they were afraid to go low and really never had to anyway. They made the Sabres go up high. Didn't engage anything low unless they got dragged down into it because they had less advantage. But I should not have started a debate about Migs and stuff in this forum because I doubt there will ever be a Korea add-on for FB. Would be nice though!!!