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XyZspineZyX
11-23-2003, 01:08 PM
Maddox,

Just two AI things I suggest to change. Maybe suggested by others, but nevertheless.

I noticed that wingman flying cover for their leader are overlooked by attackers. Attacking flights primairly focus enemy the leaders and ignore their wingman. Sometimes an attacking section is within 20 or 30 meters (or so) from a wingman but do not attack him and keep chasing the leader.

Furthermore, I see that AI pilots, mostly rookies, spray their guns without using deflection. I understand that rookies miss a lot but I find it unlikely that they empty their guns in a single shot. Even AI rookies use short bursts and miss 50 or 75% (me think...;-).

I think that changing this AI behaviour will make it a better flight sim.

Looking forward to 1.2 final ;-)

Mark

XyZspineZyX
11-23-2003, 01:08 PM
Maddox,

Just two AI things I suggest to change. Maybe suggested by others, but nevertheless.

I noticed that wingman flying cover for their leader are overlooked by attackers. Attacking flights primairly focus enemy the leaders and ignore their wingman. Sometimes an attacking section is within 20 or 30 meters (or so) from a wingman but do not attack him and keep chasing the leader.

Furthermore, I see that AI pilots, mostly rookies, spray their guns without using deflection. I understand that rookies miss a lot but I find it unlikely that they empty their guns in a single shot. Even AI rookies use short bursts and miss 50 or 75% (me think...;-).

I think that changing this AI behaviour will make it a better flight sim.

Looking forward to 1.2 final ;-)

Mark

XyZspineZyX
11-24-2003, 03:22 PM
NerdConnected wrote:
- Maddox,
Furthermore, I see that AI pilots, mostly rookies,
- spray their guns without using deflection. I
- understand that rookies miss a lot but I find it
- unlikely that they empty their guns in a single
- shot. Even AI rookies use short bursts and miss 50
- or 75% (me think...;-).
-
- I think that changing this AI behaviour will make it
- a better flight sim.

Then set your AI to Ace! they're bloody good shots I can tell you.

XyZspineZyX
11-25-2003, 09:24 PM
Fbuster wrote:
- NerdConnected wrote:
-- Maddox,
- Furthermore, I see that AI pilots, mostly rookies,
-- spray their guns without using deflection. I
-- understand that rookies miss a lot but I find it
-- unlikely that they empty their guns in a single
-- shot. Even AI rookies use short bursts and miss 50
-- or 75% (me think...;-).
--
-- I think that changing this AI behaviour will make it
-- a better flight sim.
-
- Then set your AI to Ace! they're bloody good shots I
- can tell you.
-
-
-
-
-
That's somewhat of a solution... I'd like to fly some rookies, some veteran's and now and then an ace. Even rookies should be able to kill you and do not spray their guns. Some rookies should be smart ;-) An AI ace should be ueber....

XyZspineZyX
11-25-2003, 09:34 PM
One thing I have to say about the Ace AI - is they are some of the best pilots I have ever seen... I have yet to see a human pilot take his plane and to a nose over pointing his tail in the direction of travel and continue to fly backwards like this for a few seconds then flip the plane back around without missing a beat...

Damned good pilots - haha

Actually this only occurs in online coop type mission - I have yet to experience this in a single player coop- I explain this phenomenonomenomenom- *whap* - (got stuck in a stutter on that word) PHENOMENON as latency as it only seems to happed when you have more than 4 human pilots join in an on-line coop dogfight against 12 or more ace fighters.





**** They say the early bird gets the worm - but the second mouse gets the cheese! ****

XyZspineZyX
11-25-2003, 11:43 PM
BM357_Disciple wrote:
- One thing I have to say about the Ace AI - is they
- are some of the best pilots I have ever seen... I
- have yet to see a human pilot take his plane and to
- a nose over pointing his tail in the direction of
- travel and continue to fly backwards like this for a
- few seconds then flip the plane back around without
- missing a beat...
-
- Damned good pilots - haha
-
- Actually this only occurs in online coop type
- mission - I have yet to experience this in a single
- player coop- I explain this phenomenonomenomenom-
- *whap* - (got stuck in a stutter on that word)
- PHENOMENON as latency as it only seems to happed
- when you have more than 4 human pilots join in an
- on-line coop dogfight against 12 or more ace
- fighters.
-
-
-
-
-
-
- **** They say the early bird gets the worm - but the
- second mouse gets the cheese! ****

Yep, I saw something similar. I also saw them making negative loops without blacking out. I really hope that this kind of behaviour is fixed. Credible AI (and still cheating and taking short cuts) is the holy grail of AI programming ;-) It must be really hard to make AI that avoids these things.

Mark

XyZspineZyX
11-26-2003, 05:30 AM
If they made AI blackout would be good start.

XyZspineZyX
11-26-2003, 06:30 AM
griego wrote:
- If they made AI blackout would be good start.

Indeed.

They could then add "little" things like vision limitation (to match people, blind spots, cloud blindness, etc), and dive speed restrictions.

Much more of course, but, those would go a very long way I think.

XyZspineZyX
11-26-2003, 08:09 AM
All great suggestions. Personally I would happily pay 20 bucks for an addon that just increased the default formation spacing, Slowed down the AI when escorting bombers & Made it so they could let down from altitude without doing cartwheels. I don't care about new planes, I don't want any new maps. I just want the !@#@$%&# AI fixed!

Sorry! I feel better now! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Cheers.....Smokin256

XyZspineZyX
11-26-2003, 06:57 PM
I agree that the AI are weird, and they do strange manuevers during escort and fly full throttle a lot in escort. I also hate the cartwheeling during descent, this seems to due to a wingman puling slightly ahead of his leader. I notice if I fly ahead of my leader at any time, he goes nuts and either dives or zooms upward. This should be fixed. I also agree that the AI have no limitations like you do, no blackout, can see through their planes as if they were invisible, fly using excessive rudder even when not in combat and their engines never overheat. Just to name a few!!! Not to mention they can turn harder and dive without restriction on speed ( in most planes ). Fighter AI will drop bombs from high altitude, as if they have modern targetting systems like on a F-16. The only thing they can't do well, even on ace level, is shoot deflection. All I have to do to avoid getting hit is to constantly turn. But if I straighten out, I'm dead. In that case they have laser accuracy.

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin - 1755

XyZspineZyX
11-26-2003, 10:09 PM
Smokin256 wrote:
- All great suggestions. Personally I would happily
- pay 20 bucks for an addon that just increased the
- default formation spacing, Slowed down the AI when
- escorting bombers & Made it so they could let down
- from altitude without doing cartwheels. I don't care
- about new planes, I don't want any new maps. I just
- want the !@#@$%&# AI fixed!
-
- Sorry! I feel better now! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif -
- Cheers.....Smokin256
-
-

Me too, but the others problably wont ;-) So it's likely they improve the AI by making little steps. I'm happy about the FM (AFAIK it feels right) at this moment. The DM is good enough, the amount of planes is staggering. Some very nice cockpits and visually, FB is still the best there is The the AI needs some improvement. If it's done right in FB (so we can test it ;-) maybe Maddox can import it in BOB....

Mark

XyZspineZyX
11-27-2003, 04:36 AM
Although less important, I still try to figure out why the AI tries to make belly landings in forests. Only thing I can come up with is that the AI doesn't know the terrain, IE they cannot distinguish a forest or lake from grassland. Would be nice if the maps have certain "zones" around forests, because it doesn't feel right to me. Maybe something for BoB?

XyZspineZyX
11-27-2003, 04:55 AM
As i see it the AI is fine.

The one thing I would do is give the Aces planes a little extra speed and less turn time.

What I mean is that because we can put in "BF-109G-6 Hartmann" in a mission and make it an ace, it still wont be like the real Hartmann, so a speed boost would help.

XyZspineZyX
11-27-2003, 05:04 AM
-- I would happily pay 20 bucks for an addon that just
-- increased the default formation spacing,

In FMB, I am starting to make all formations just two aircraft. This may help the collision and you get twice as many AI leaders and less sheep.

XyZspineZyX
11-27-2003, 10:40 PM
VOL_Jon wrote:
- As i see it the AI is fine.
-
- The one thing I would do is give the Aces planes a
- little extra speed and less turn time.
-
- What I mean is that because we can put in "BF-109G-6
- Hartmann" in a mission and make it an ace, it still
- wont be like the real Hartmann, so a speed boost
- would help.
-
-
The AI is pretty good when compared to other flight sim's but there are some annoying little bugs that are problaby fixable. I'm not aiming for 'real human like AI' because that's completely out of the question. We'll have to wait ' till 2050 or so to have something that even comes close ;-)

Mark