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blazer-glory
05-27-2005, 03:43 AM
Why do I always bounce on landing? I come in like a rubber ball!

ClnlSandersLite
05-27-2005, 03:56 AM
If I had to guess, your rate of descent is too great when you touch down. Come in shallower.

Grue_
05-27-2005, 04:01 AM
Let some air out of the tyres!

The planes in this sim are a bit lively on the ground imo.

When you can judge how to stall the plane 6 inches above the runway you won't bounce http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Finkeren
05-27-2005, 04:06 AM
There is a lot of bouncing in this game, however a lot of this can be countered by carefully managing your speed and angle of attack.
When landing on a normal airstrip try making your approach at a low AOA ie: make a long aproach at low alt. avoid a steep decend.
Always land at a very low airspeed, most planes land at lower speeds than they take off. Always aply full flaps and slow the plane down to app. 170 km/h on the approach, touch down at about 130-150 (late war planes might require higher landing speeds, but not much higher)
Try making a 3-point landing (both main wheels and the tailwheel touch the ground at the same time) this is done by GENTLY raising the nose just before touchdown, and at very low speeds, this way you'll push the plane to the edge of a stall but not beyond, and the plane will gently drop down on the runway.
Once you touch down IMEDIALLY raise the flaps to avoid taking off again, and slowly aply brakes in small steps at a time to avoid nosing over, once your airspeed is below stall speed pull back on the stick to keep the tail on the ground.

Making a carrier landing is somewhat a different story, in this case a steeper approach is recommended, but it MUST be done at absolute minimum speed, and you MUST approach the carrier from behind.
Most carrier planes can make the aprroach at 160 km/h and touchdown at 120, but the Corsair needs to go a bit faster.
The only real trick about carrier landings, is to catch the wire, once you're hooked up, you're safe.
It is essential that you touch down on the first 1/3 of the deck, else you'll miss the wires (american carriers have 'emergency' wires on the front of the deck, but you can still crash if you catch one of those).
It is also essential that your arresting hook touches the deck first, keep the nose up and try to hit the deck tails first. You'll have to go almost beyond stall speed to achieve this.

Well I guess that's my 2 cents, good luck!

Tully__
05-27-2005, 04:14 AM
Too much speed and/or to fast a rate of descent. You need a slow approach with a very gentle rate of descent is necessary for a good landing.

blazer-glory
05-27-2005, 04:35 AM
The last few feet before I touch down are always the most difficult as half the time I never know whether I've actually made contact with the ground or not. I usually just reduce the throttle right down to make sure!
Thanks for the replies.http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

arcadeace
05-27-2005, 04:44 AM
Even on non-airstrips I can usually land smooth enough, but jamming the prop and tipping over is way too sensitive. I'm regularly getting out of my plane upside down http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

Finkeren
05-27-2005, 04:48 AM
I would recommend that you try experimenting a bit. Try using exterior view untill you have it right, it can also help you in getting the 3-point landing right the first times.
I usually cut the throttle app. 3 sec before touchdown at an alt. of 15m with airspeed no greater than 160 km/h and not lower than 140, that way I can raise the nose quite a bit without stalling og climbing.

LeadSpitter_
05-27-2005, 07:37 AM
Olegs off runway, Shock and strut expert.

http://vilhat.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/snoopdoghuggybearstarckyhutch11.jpg

BBB_Hyperion
05-27-2005, 07:55 AM
The bouncing is a little odd concerning the weight of some planes. Irl 190 you could step full on the brakes without nose over either brakes are too strong or plane is too light . But combined with the bouncing you have on takeoff landing it looks like its weight or more lift related problem. In the lower speed regime airflow doesnt break its flow thats why planes bounce so easy i think . The simulation of the ground effect might have something to do with it too.

BuzzU
05-27-2005, 08:30 AM
When you flair try to keep it floating as long as possible. Don't move the elevator at all at that point, just let it sink slow by itself. When you get it right you won't even feel the touch down.

blazer-glory
05-27-2005, 09:43 AM
Wish the altimeter read zero when you are actually on the ground. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Philipscdrw
05-27-2005, 09:45 AM
I would question the ground handling model (but the MS Flight Simulator ground handling is also kaput...). The aircraft do seem to be very very light, and bounce or tip up on the slightest rut...

For fun landings, try the Go-229. That big nosewheel = great fun!

NonWonderDog
05-27-2005, 11:31 AM
Originally posted by blazer-glory:
Wish the altimeter read zero when you are actually on the ground. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Why should it? It reads in height above MSL.

If you ditch it in the ocean, it will (should) read 0, but nothing else is guaranteed. Know your runway altitude!

Ground handling is off, though. Try taxiing without a rudder... it isn't possible!

GR142-Pipper
05-27-2005, 11:36 AM
Originally posted by blazer-glory:
Why do I always bounce on landing? I come in like a rubber ball! A lot of this is airplane dependent. The worst "bouncer" that I've experienced is the P-63. It's downright ficticious. In a related matter, planes like the P-47 waddle around on take off as though they have a full fuel load AND a maximum ordnance load aboard. Oh well, it's just the way that it is.

GR142-Pipper

Platypus_1.JaVA
05-27-2005, 12:06 PM
Originally posted by blazer-glory:
Wish the altimeter read zero when you are actually on the ground. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

It is called elevation. Nothing strange about when your altimeter reads 1000ft when you stand on the mountain airport. In real aviation, they work with three diffrent altitudes. Altitude above sea level, Barometric altitude and another one I forgot. Your altimeter can read 0, just set it to the proper barometric pressure. But, you cannot do that in PF

AerialTarget
05-27-2005, 02:20 PM
Read. (http://www.taildraggers.com/Documentation.aspx)

As has been pointed out, the game has issues with taxiing.

TX-EcoDragon
05-27-2005, 03:48 PM
The first obvious point is that you need to be in the proper speed range as well, since if you are too fast you will have to force the plane down, and if too slow it's easy to find yourself unable to arrest the descent rate. Generally about 165-180 kmh is a good number for wheel landings, and less for 3 pointers. Try what Finkeren said, but add about 10-15% power just as you enter the flair, or just as you are about to touchdown if doing a wheel landing. In the real world you generally wouldnt do this in a 3pt landing, but when doing a wheel landing (where the aircraft more or less level, as in flight, and touches down on the main gear with the tail high) this is what you do in place of pulling back on the stick. This arrests your descent rate without lowering the tail. The key to the wheel landing is to arrest the descent rate with power to the minimal amount, and then to plant the main wheels with some light forward pressure on the stick once they touch. If you don't do these two things then as the tail lowers it will cause the aircraft to climb. . .and this will lead to a bounce. In the sim it helps to do wheel landings with both a blip of power and a little back elevator pressure. In the sim the wheel landings are actually easier than the three pointers, but your touchdown speed will be a little higher, and the landing roll will be longer.

vocatx
05-27-2005, 06:54 PM
One common misconception that many people have of aircraft control that really becomes apparent when trying to land is that elevator controls the altitude and power controls the speed. This is in fact not the case. In the landing pattern, you want to reduce your power setting and trim slightly nose high. Use your elevator to control your airspeed, and use the throttle (carefully!) to control altitude. It is counter-intuitive, but this is how it works in real life. You can practice this at altitude by leveling off at a specific altitude and reducing power settings progressively and drop speed as you maintain your altitude. You will soon see how it works. And you will learn, as real life pilots do, how to control your aircraft on the edge of a stall. When you land, you want the aircraft to contact the ground at the instant the wing stalls. If you can get this down, you will eliminate the bounces.
It is harder to land in this sim than in real life because you don't have the "seat of the pants" feel, and no periferal vision. I try to use the widest veiw angle as it give a little veiw to each side of the airplane (in most cases).

msalama
05-28-2005, 01:44 AM
Hmm...

Well the distances are bloody hard to judge in this game, but what I've been doing lately is _something_ like this (particulars vary a lot depenging on the situation & the plane - use your situational awareness & read those pilot notes carefully!):

1) Flaps 1 BEFORE descending. Check your trim and power so that you're flying level. Start the descent by reducing power & RPMs.

2) When descending, aim for an airspeed of some 250 kmph IAS at this point on your glideslope. Use trim for airspeed & engine power for rate of descent.

2) Flaps 2 at some point, say 1/3 down the finals or something. Check your trim & power settings. Aim for an airspeed of 220kmph or so.

3) When "over the fence" (i.e. some 6-800m from touchdown or something), apply landing flaps & check your power and trim (power & RPMs should be quite low at this point). Aim for an airspeed of some 180-190 kmph IAS.

4) When some 200m from the runway treshold, apply 100% RPM.

5) When almost over the runway, cut your power completely.

6) ARREST YOUR SINK RATE (and this is bloody important unless you want to pork up the whole thing) by applying gradually more and more up elevator, so that you end up 3-pointing the plane just as it stalls (around 140 kmph IAS).

Note 1: Try to keep your rate of descent shallowish & as constant as possible at all times. Aim for a descent speed of 3m/sec or something - can be a bit steeper than what the airliners do because there's no self-loading cargo to worry about!

Note 2: Oh yeah, almost forgot - you should start this approach procedure @ 300m AGL & 5-6km from the runway or so (approximations). You _can_ start higher, but then your sink rate will be higher too which naturally affects everything else mentioned above!

So what happens with the abovementioned procedure is that you'll shake off your kinetic energy gradually when you descend & end up stalling the bugger when you touch down! And that's neat, because your groundspeed will also be low - around some 100kmph or something pretty soon and falling - when you roll down the runway. So no need for those wheel brakes either if the thing goes "by the book"...

blazer-glory
05-28-2005, 02:28 AM
Thanks for the info regarding the altimeter. It makes more sense now! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

PF_Coastie
05-28-2005, 08:09 AM
Originally posted by blazer-glory:
Why do I always bounce on landing? I come in like a rubber ball!

You wouldn't happen to be a Tigger would you?

No Really, some very good advise here.

Good Luck!

OldMan____
05-28-2005, 08:44 AM
Well I still land at 250 kph in my FW190 :P Better to avoid airport hunters. But My technique to avoid bouncing is to dive in quite steep approach and flare as your nose view crosses runway while reducing flaps. When you learn the timming you will touch ground at the exact time you loose the lift from flaps and you will stay there.

CUJO_1970
05-28-2005, 09:45 AM
It's a limitation of the current (3.04) game engine.

msalama
05-28-2005, 10:10 AM
...because you don't have the "seat of the pants" feel...

Yes, but how about the "seat of the virtual pants" feel? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

No, seriously! I've found that you _do_ develop some of that as time passes...

msalama
05-28-2005, 10:11 AM
Originally posted by CUJO_1970:
It's a limitation of the current (3.04) game engine.

Erm.. excusez-moi, but what exactly are you referring to here?

CUJO_1970
05-28-2005, 10:22 AM
Originally posted by msalama:
Erm.. excusez-moi, but what exactly are you referring to here?


The current ground physics in the 3.04 physics engine is incomplete.

This is why you get the extreme "bouncyness" as well as harsh nose-overs when applying the brakes.

The new patch (4.0) with the pre-BoB physics model will go a long way to addressing this issue and will give us some pleasant suprises, as well as some new challenges.

Steerable nose-wheels anyone? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

msalama
05-28-2005, 11:38 AM
OK! Thanx Cujo...

Tachyon1000
05-28-2005, 10:38 PM
One alternative not mentioned here is the break landing. As opposed to a slow descent, descend quickly at 50% power or so, target speed between 450 and 500 kph, maintain this speed til you are in level flight about 100 meters in altitude. Before the landing strip threshold, click in combat flaps, make a very hard horizontal break turn to the left reducing throttle to 20% or so. The strength of the turn will bleed off speed. When your speed is slow enough in the turn go full landing flaps and drop gear. If you've done it right you will be just at the threshold, 100 meter off the ground or less and near a good landing speed. It is much faster than the gradual descent and a good deal more fun.

TX-EcoDragon
05-28-2005, 11:17 PM
Originally posted by Tachyon1000:
One alternative not mentioned here is the break landing. . .

Yep, and if you're still high, try a slip! The sim doesn't do them too well, but it does do them. . kick full rudder (outside the turn if you're still turning) and oppose the turning tendency with opposite aileron. Keep the nose below the horizon, maintain your approach speed with pitch and your descent rate will increase nicely without increasing your airspeed. Return to normal coordinated flight before touchdown though ;-)

JG27_Stacko
05-29-2005, 07:24 AM
Originally posted by Finkeren:
There is a lot of bouncing in this game, however a lot of this can be countered by carefully managing your speed and angle of attack.
When landing on a normal airstrip try making your approach at a low AOA ie: make a long aproach at low alt. avoid a steep decend.
Always land at a very low airspeed, most planes land at lower speeds than they take off. Always aply full flaps and slow the plane down to app. 170 km/h on the approach, touch down at about 130-150 (late war planes might require higher landing speeds, but not much higher)
Try making a 3-point landing (both main wheels and the tailwheel touch the ground at the same time) this is done by GENTLY raising the nose just before touchdown, and at very low speeds, this way you'll push the plane to the edge of a stall but not beyond, and the plane will gently drop down on the runway.
Once you touch down IMEDIALLY raise the flaps to avoid taking off again, and slowly aply brakes in small steps at a time to avoid nosing over, once your airspeed is below stall speed pull back on the stick to keep the tail on the ground.

Making a carrier landing is somewhat a different story, in this case a steeper approach is recommended, but it MUST be done at absolute minimum speed, and you MUST approach the carrier from behind.
Most carrier planes can make the aprroach at 160 km/h and touchdown at 120, but the Corsair needs to go a bit faster.
The only real trick about carrier landings, is to catch the wire, once you're hooked up, you're safe.
It is essential that you touch down on the first 1/3 of the deck, else you'll miss the wires (american carriers have 'emergency' wires on the front of the deck, but you can still crash if you catch one of those).
It is also essential that your arresting hook touches the deck first, keep the nose up and try to hit the deck tails first. You'll have to go almost beyond stall speed to achieve this.

Well I guess that's my 2 cents, good luck!

I'd say your confused about what AoA actually is... SO replace Angle of Attack with Angle of Descent in the above post.
The rest is pretty much O.K.
The amount of bounce is a result of too high an approach speed. And I wouldn't say that there is too much of it or it is incorrectly modelled.... Go down and watch some people doing circuit work before they have had there first solo - the humble old cessna and piper, indeed all planes, bounce a lot when handled incorectly. This game is much more forgiving than real life.

BuzzU
05-29-2005, 09:19 AM
If you want some realistic landings. Try the Su-25T in the 1.1 expansion for Lock On. Try it with a strong crosswind and see if you can keep from blowing a tire or spinning out sideways. Fun stuff.