PDA

View Full Version : Ultimate Dogfighter. JET FIGHTERS NOT INCLUDED.



XyZspineZyX
10-16-2003, 09:56 AM
So what fighter you think is the best in dogfights. remember that the fighter must not have JET-engine. It has to be propeller driven.

XyZspineZyX
10-16-2003, 09:56 AM
So what fighter you think is the best in dogfights. remember that the fighter must not have JET-engine. It has to be propeller driven.

XyZspineZyX
10-16-2003, 10:03 AM
None can match the mixture of agility, aerobatics, roll rate and climb etc. of the yak3 .. When you have to get down and dirty.. It's the best choice.

Oh yeah but erm, it's a nOOOOOOb plane, and er, anyone who doesn't BnZ in a FW is a nOOOOOObish **** who deserves to be drowned.

So yeah, sir's choice.

http://www.vflintham.demon.co.uk/aircraft/spit/spit8.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-16-2003, 10:04 AM
The P.11 has no equal.

Now await the coming flame war, summoned by your open ended question with no true answer...

XyZspineZyX
10-16-2003, 10:10 AM
P11 don't climb too good, and armament may as well be 4 water pistols.. But it does turn very very nicely.. Anyone noticed it's about 10 times better in the latest patch? I love to fly that little thing.. But PKs will be your only victories.

http://www.vflintham.demon.co.uk/aircraft/spit/spit8.jpg


- Supermarine Spitfire mk.VIII

XyZspineZyX
10-16-2003, 10:12 AM
The Dornier Do-335 Pfiel, Hawker Sea Fury, F8F Bearcat, or the the final Corsair variant.

XyZspineZyX
10-16-2003, 10:15 AM
Oh well, outside the boundaries of the game? Why a spitfire of course! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Probably a Mk.XIVe LF. (Fievel's project)

http://www.vflintham.demon.co.uk/aircraft/spit/spit8.jpg

- Supermarine Spitfire mk.VIII - Ain't she a darlin'?

fluke39
10-16-2003, 10:15 AM
nixon-fiend wrote:
- P11 don't climb too good, and armament may as well
- be 4 water pistols.. But it does turn very very
- nicely.. Anyone noticed it's about 10 times better
- in the latest patch? I love to fly that little
- thing.. But PKs will be your only victories.

must be almost turning like a 153 if its that much better ... i do like the p.11, so glad it was included in the plane set - gotta respect FB for these things - what other game would let us fly planes such as the p.11?

<center><img src=http://mysite.freeserve.com/Angel_one_five/flukelogo.jpg>

XyZspineZyX
10-16-2003, 01:10 PM
Best fighter seems to be Ta-152H cant wait to see it in this game and hoping that they make it as good as it was in reality. russian planes seem to be "Enhanced" in this game at least the late YAK and La.



Message Edited on 10/16/0312:39PM by Reozil

XyZspineZyX
10-16-2003, 01:50 PM
nixon-fiend wrote:
- P11 don't climb too good, and armament may as well
- be 4 water pistols.. But it does turn very very
- nicely.. Anyone noticed it's about 10 times better
- in the latest patch? I love to fly that little
- thing.. But PKs will be your only victories.
-

Nah.

P11 and I-153 are both extremely capable fighters. You have to dictate the fight. Let your enemy come to you.. and stay below 300 meters!

<font face="Courier New">

‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ _____ | _____
‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ _\__(o)__/_
‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ./ \.

</font>

XyZspineZyX
10-16-2003, 01:56 PM
i shot down a me262 in my p11 /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
tho the guns are REALLY ineffective

XyZspineZyX
10-16-2003, 01:57 PM
between 1000-4000 metres .... the MIG AM-38 is the best plane in the game.

between 4000-7000 metres .... the MIG AM-35 is the best plane in the game.

"the one and only MIG-1 whiner"

Zayets
10-16-2003, 02:00 PM
IL-2 Sturmovik 1941 (2nd or 3rd series). Never turn with the E or the F with that beast.Actually every IL2 , if I'm caught in a dogfight , I don't mind. Normally,I run from every AA engagement.

Zayets out

http://www.arr.go.ro/iar81c.JPG

XyZspineZyX
10-16-2003, 05:02 PM
I like the La-gg... even if it's to slow in turns for evasive maneuvres... Yak is nice too. Nice firepower.../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif


Regards.

Mesh.

XyZspineZyX
10-16-2003, 05:12 PM
Ta 152

Nic

XyZspineZyX
10-16-2003, 05:14 PM
The Ta 152H would be the ultimate dogfighter IMO, with the Spitfire MkXIV as my second choice!/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

<center>


http://members.chello.se/unni/rote3.JPG



'When it comes to aircombat, I'd rather be lucky than good any day!'

</center>

XyZspineZyX
10-16-2003, 05:36 PM
Good question.

I'm surprised this hasn't been asked before.



Liege-Killer

http://home.austin.rr.com/jasandtrace/images/sig2.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-16-2003, 05:36 PM
La-7 seems good.

+ constant speed propellor
+ good engine and speed
+ 2-3 cannons
+ good aerodynamics and maneuverability
- bad roll
- bad production quality and wooden parts


Constant speed propellor. I can't stress this enough. Fly BF109G and you'll notice that it won't go nowhere with 50% power compared to a La at 50%. It's the prop pitch. BF109 has a variable pitch propeller that has a device which can make it automatic (somehow). I think it has a preset configuration (?) which prevents you from overrevving the engine (too easily because you can still go over 3000 if you push it). So at 50% power you'll have a low RPM and this system, I think, prevents the engine (flywheel?) from going any faster also. What a constant speed propeller does is that it tries to keep engine and prop RPM at a certain amount such as 2800 through a governor which has more or less likely something to do with the oil pressure of the engine and something else with flyweights and stuff... Ok, I don't understand it. They don't teach these things in school. I wonder why... Anyhow, it's a much better system. No wonder the Yaks, La's and many other planes fly so well... /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

That's how I've understood it..

The question is, why didn't the stupid Germans use constant speed props? I don't know about FW190 tho'...

XyZspineZyX
10-16-2003, 05:42 PM
Lukki wrote:
-
- The question is, why didn't the stupid Germans use
- constant speed props? I don't know about FW190
- tho'...
-

Because only a 'victim' needs acceleration.



<font face="Courier New">

‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ _____ | _____
‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ _\__(o)__/_
‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ./ \.

</font>

XyZspineZyX
10-16-2003, 06:17 PM
No ifghter designed after 1943 was a true dogfighter. All of the late war aicraft were BnZ fighters, with varying ability to dogfight.

As for the best pure dogfighter of the war, I suspect that would probably be the Ki-43 Oscar. That aircraft, while lightly armed with only 2x12mm machine guns, is exceptionally manuverable, even more so than the legendary Zero, with less of the compressability problems.

In a one-on-one dogfight, it is a given that the Oscar will be firmly locked onto its target's tail through the entire flight.

As for why such a supurlative dogfighter was not more sucesful in the war, BnZ beats turn fighting nearly every time.

Even modern jet fighters are this way. Even at it's best turn rate, the MiG-29 in the LO:MAC demo is a flying freight train, when compaired to the aircraft in Il-2, and you can't keep a sharp turn for more than half a revolution. After that turn rate is abismal, yet, by jet standards, it is still considered a highly manuverable aircraft.

Harry Voyager

http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0YQDLAswcqmIpvWP9dLzZVayPXOmo6IJ16aURujNfs4dDETH84 Q6eIkCbWQemjqF6O8ZfvzlsvUUauJyy9GYnKM6!o3fu!kBnWVh BgMt3q2T3BUQ8yjBBqECLxFaqXVV5U2kWiSIlq1s6VoaVvRqBy Q/Avatar%202%20500x500%20[final).jpg?dc=4675409848259594077

XyZspineZyX
10-16-2003, 06:38 PM
Lukki wrote:
- The question is, why didn't the stupid Germans use
- constant speed props? I don't know about FW190
- tho'...


The only thing stupid about the Germans was the top leadership. From an engineering standpoint alone we should all be speaking German...fortunately the leadership was ego tripping and most of the capable generals knew if they wanted to stay alive they should just shut up and try to make that lemonade.

<CENTER>http://www.world-wide-net.com/tuskegeeairmen/ta-1943.jpg <marquee><FONT COLOR="RED"><FONT SIZE="+1">"Straighten up.......Fly right..~S~"<FONT SIZE> </marquee> http://www.geocities.com/rt_bearcat

<CENTER><FONT COLOR="ORANGE">vflyer@comcast.net<FONT COLOR>
<Center><div style="width:200;color:red;font-size:18pt;filter:shadow Blur[color=red,strength=8)">99th Pursuit Squadron

XyZspineZyX
10-16-2003, 06:45 PM
nixon-fiend wrote:
- None can match the mixture of agility, aerobatics,
- roll rate and climb etc. of the yak3

I don't think this is still true in v1.11. the Yak1b can out turn a yak3, and I discovered that a La5FN/7 can out turn a Yak1b!!

In real life... the P-47 was supposed to be an outstanding plane, it was more durable than any other plane, and it didn't lose HP up to 30,000 feet because of it's turbo/supercharger. For rookies, it's been said, the P-47 was the ultimate plane

XyZspineZyX
10-16-2003, 06:48 PM
I agree with bearcat99.... The only thing stupid with germans was the top leaders...(fortunaly for us). The top fighter should be Ta-152...you can read something interesting about it in Osprey book about "FW-190 aces of the western front"... nice combat against 2 Tempest....

XyZspineZyX
10-16-2003, 06:50 PM
The P-39 in the game
In real life F8F bearcat



http://www.uploadit.org/files/151003-glad03.jpg

---------------------
R.N.A.F Ja vi elsker!

XyZspineZyX
10-16-2003, 06:52 PM
I disagree with you Harry. After 43 the Yak 3 was a true dogfighter. Wasn't the Bearcat designed to be one too (even though it came too late?).

Nic

XyZspineZyX
10-16-2003, 06:56 PM
Ki 84
wait & see

Buzz_25th
10-16-2003, 07:03 PM
I'll take an Extra 300 with a 45mm mounted on it.

You think you Yak3 can turn? Ha!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
25th_Buzz
<center>
http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/foto1/anderson3.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-17-2003, 12:27 PM
the tightest turning Monoplane of WW2 was the KI-27
P-11 & I-16 & I-153 all will get dominated by this plane

although the LA-9 & SeaFury & bearcat were awesome .....

the Fock Wulf TA-152H would have beaten them all

this A/C was simply too good for them 7 would have been developed into a flying nightmare for all if Germany had the chance to develop it properly

its speed & climb & turn would have bested them all IMO

BTW the record for fastest prop plane is held by a highly modified Bearcat

XyZspineZyX
10-17-2003, 01:59 PM
TA 152 never beat 2 Tempest IIRC...it was better, but much less so (if at all) on the deck.

The Tempest downed had a TA come down on it with advantage and kept it all the way...

Tempest was the fastest low level fighter of the war: 416ph at sea level!

XyZspineZyX
10-17-2003, 08:10 PM
I have some success with the Rata.
Either the tip18 or 24(tip28 IRL). The guns are nicely grouped, and the tip24 has as much firepower as an early Il2. Its relatively slow and can be outclimbed (or at least outrun at same climb rate) by most Bfs, but its faster than both I-153 and P11. If you have alt advantage it can kill ANYTHING.
Worst thing is the <prolonged> winding, which hampers quick takeoffs or landings

XyZspineZyX
10-17-2003, 08:49 PM
WUAF_Badsight wrote:
- the tightest turning Monoplane of WW2 was the KI-27
- P-11 & I-16 & I-153 all will get dominated by this
- plane
-

Nah.

Tight turns mean nothing if your contemporaries can climb better, or dive faster.

Its hard to say that any plane will be dominated by any other. Too many variables to weigh.

<font face="Courier New">

‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ _____ | _____
‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ _\__(o)__/_
‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ./ \.

</font>

XyZspineZyX
10-19-2003, 12:34 AM
all those planes were slow

all have to turn fight

the KI-27 would dominate

XyZspineZyX
10-19-2003, 12:57 AM
Lukki wrote:
- La-7 seems good.

It's crap. Bad roll, cannot dive as fast as late germans, feels sluggish. The gauges are Really bad compared to any german plane... hard to navigate with those weird compasses that are too small, too blurry and always seem to turn to wrong direction when I bank :-) the LW compass on the other hand is very logical and handy.

Ja mittaristo n√¬§ytt√¬§√¬§ hemmetin bakeliitilta. Hyi.

Yes you can turn ad infinitum and its fast but otherwise it's a POS. It even looks gay.

As for the propellor BS, that's another thing that's modelled "funny" in FB. If the russians had used only 2blade wooden WW1-era props in WW2 they would be the best choice in FB as well.

Grain of salt >here<.


http://sivusto.servepics.com/~lahnat/werre2s.jpg

prkl

XyZspineZyX
10-19-2003, 03:02 AM
La7 climbs like a V2

Nic

XyZspineZyX
10-19-2003, 03:13 AM
BF-109z/7 without a doubt.

load $25 fuel and watcht he rpms. If you don't fly with complicated engine managment you might like the LaggIT1943, but be carefull, it don't carry much ammo, or you could try the I-16, very manuverable, lotssa bulltes, but it is sloooooooooooooooooooooooooow, you could try the p-40, don;t let yourself get shot cause its weak, weak, weak!.....

The 109g is to heavy, flys like a fat chick on rollerskates, and the k is even heavyer, but it climb higher than Rush Limbaugh at an online pharmacy.

I dont why why folks bother with the FW-190d versions because they turn like 747s and have winpy wimpy guns, but the armor is good, mabey your opponant will run out of ammo before he kills you, mabey not, mabey he has freinds /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

of course the P.11 has killed many unwarry ace wanna bes. It turns on a dime and is very hard to get a bead on, its guns are small it seems to never run out of bullets, kinda like Hollywood bullets.

The IL2, the games name sake, carries a butt load of ammo for its big guns, cant turn worth a crud but that dosnt matter caus you have an eagle eye AI gunner who never misses (at least when he shots at me )
and a bomb load good enough to level a small village.

hmmmmmmmmm...what was the question??


http://home.comcast.net/~ick_352nd/

http://home.comcast.net/~ick_352nd/aceshigh.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-19-2003, 08:41 AM
Quite a few, But not a single enemy bullet ever touched Erich Hartmanns 109, and he was one of the few TOP scorers. So it depends on the pilot and a good machine.



____________________________________
Straight is the gate, and narrow the way that leadeth unto Life, and few there be that find it.

XyZspineZyX
10-19-2003, 12:59 PM
IMO. F8F Bearcat. High top speed
High climb rate.- Fast roll rate -fast turning-heavily armored. But the thing that really put the icing on the cake was it's terrific acceleration.

XyZspineZyX
10-19-2003, 01:29 PM
The Ultimate Dogfighter, I would be in a F4U-5N Vought Corsair. Max speed 470 at26,800 ft ceiling of 41,000 and range of 1100 miles. A proven dogfighter in combat againest the nimble Japaness aircraft with a kill ratio of 11to1. That sounds like good odds to me.

XyZspineZyX
10-19-2003, 05:55 PM
They did use a constant speed prop, but used a clock work system in the throttle quadrant that adjusted the prop as the throttle was moved. Variable pitch= adjustable on the ground only.
BaldieJr wrote:
-
- Lukki wrote:
--
-- The question is, why didn't the stupid Germans use
-- constant speed props? I don't know about FW190
-- tho'...
--
-
- Because only a 'victim' needs acceleration.
-
-
-
-
- <font face="Courier New">
-
- ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ _____ | _____
- ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ _\__(o)__/_
- ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ‚ ./ \.
-
- </font>

XyZspineZyX
10-19-2003, 10:28 PM
For the militant radical T camp....

Yak-3T: anti-tank version built in small numbers with 37mm N37 cannon and two 20mm B20S cannon; Yak-3T-57: one-off Yak-3T with a 57mm 0KB-16-57 cannon /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif ...
---> http://www.btinternet.com/~lee_mail/Yak-3.html

37mm pic --->http://ftp.ctrl-c.liu.se/misc/ram/yak-3-1-prev.jpg

http://ftp.ctrl-c.liu.se/misc/ram/yak-3.html



Well, its not well known, kinda like repressive memory I guess, but lucky for LW the much hated Yak~3 had the same old engine as original Yak~9 from 1942.

If you stuff the La~7 engine into a rebuilt from scratch metalized Yak~3 and you have radial Yak-3U with the

Best combat maneuverability of any known fighter and considerably faster than series Yak~3 all heights, but regarded in 1945 as obsolescent in concept.
~ Bill Gunsten

And with 2 cannons and 200kg less weight than Yak~3. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif



Cockpit of VK~107 powered Yak~3, also called "Yak~3U"

---> http://www.avions-de-legende.com/avdeleg/img/125D.jpg. (http://www.avions-de-legende.com/avdeleg/img/125D.jpg)


Note the airspeed indicator. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif



Message Edited on 10/19/03‚ 09:30PM by LEXX_Luthor

Message Edited on 10/19/0309:31PM by LEXX_Luthor

XyZspineZyX
10-19-2003, 11:23 PM
P-47 ofcoarse...soon to be the P-51/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif Works for me atleast.
S~
47|FC

XyZspineZyX
10-19-2003, 11:23 PM
helm-1 wrote:
- Quite a few, But not a single enemy bullet ever
- touched Erich Hartmanns 109, and he was one of the
- few TOP scorers. So it depends on the pilot and a
- good machine.
-


I have him on video saying he never took a hit from a enemy "fighter" and he never attacked a enemy that was manouvering,Thats why he survived the war and got so many kills he did not turnfight.

No1RAAF_Pourshot
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~andycarroll68/CA-15%20Kangaroo.jpg

No1_RAAF

XyZspineZyX
10-20-2003, 07:14 AM
pourshot wrote:
- I have him on video saying he never took a hit from
- a enemy "fighter" and he never attacked a enemy that
- was manouvering,Thats why he survived the war and
- got so many kills he did not turnfight.


Seems Hartmann was a genius of sorts. This is the same way I have survived in 109s in the game. Knowing the limitations both AC and pilot is a good way to survive.

There have been many times when I have been tempted to TnB rather than BnZ in an E fighter because the "victim" looked easy. Those happened to almost all end up in "Ctrl E," as I made myself the victim of my own arrogance.

Therefore, I don't ask which is the best dogfighting plane. I ask which is the most hard-hitting and stable gun platform in a dive which can then claw its way back up to alt in a hurry.

If the FW 190 series in game weren't gunsight challenged, it would be the cream of the game because of its guns combined with its BnZ capabilities, especially since we aren't able to realistically fly high alt battles.

XyZspineZyX
10-20-2003, 07:41 AM
I hear many saying the Ta-152 was the best dogfighter. I thought it's primary advantage was that it could fly at high-altitude and not because it was a particularly good dogfighter. I guess I'm mistaken....

47|FC
http://rangerring.com/wwii/p-47.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-20-2003, 07:53 AM
B239, not bad at all....

XyZspineZyX
10-20-2003, 08:02 AM
FireBird77 wrote:
- B239, not bad at all....

You said it! I absolutely love the Brewster. Online I've brought down everything from Doras to P-47s with it. She truly has my nomination for the most underrated plane in FB...

47|FC
http://rangerring.com/wwii/p-47.jpg