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View Full Version : Are you a purist-cockpit pilot, or easy-cheatin-reticle man?



XyZspineZyX
10-14-2003, 11:31 PM
Since the dawn of the officially realistic combat flight sims there has been an underlying, and largely unspoken reality, that has been repressed as insignificant http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif...and maybe even...politically incorrect. If you're like me though, every once in a great while you must have detected the inference: "Do you fly the cockpit...huh? Or do you do cheat...like a baby."

Well, I don't do it like a baby. I'm just smart. Pure reticle is the most realistic, period. Now don't misunderstand me, I don't mean to imply the pure-cockpit types are fanatics or something. Those guys are my fellow FB brothers and I'm an open minded kind of guy, but lets get real (no pun intended). Being closed off in a '3D-cockpit' on a small 2D-display is not the most realistic.

So I'm just wondering if there are any gentlemen here (not the ahole types) who have observed this bigotry and happen to agree, or maybe at least sympathize. Of course you purists can join in also..but be nice.

XyZspineZyX
10-14-2003, 11:31 PM
Since the dawn of the officially realistic combat flight sims there has been an underlying, and largely unspoken reality, that has been repressed as insignificant http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif...and maybe even...politically incorrect. If you're like me though, every once in a great while you must have detected the inference: "Do you fly the cockpit...huh? Or do you do cheat...like a baby."

Well, I don't do it like a baby. I'm just smart. Pure reticle is the most realistic, period. Now don't misunderstand me, I don't mean to imply the pure-cockpit types are fanatics or something. Those guys are my fellow FB brothers and I'm an open minded kind of guy, but lets get real (no pun intended). Being closed off in a '3D-cockpit' on a small 2D-display is not the most realistic.

So I'm just wondering if there are any gentlemen here (not the ahole types) who have observed this bigotry and happen to agree, or maybe at least sympathize. Of course you purists can join in also..but be nice.

XyZspineZyX
10-14-2003, 11:36 PM
In a full real server (which our squad flies) YOU HAVE TO BE IN COCKPIT for NAV and Heading readings-as a Jabo pilot you need to have your map and target ready to go before the mission-and the only way to get from AF to Target is to use the compass (and in foul weather the AH).

But for run and gun dog servers I don't mind flying without cockpit.

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.uploadit.org/files/051003-Screen1.1a.jpg>



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Buzz_25th
10-14-2003, 11:39 PM
Been here, done this a 100 times. It will settle nothing, and just turn into a flame gang bang.

Fly where you want, and keep it to yourself.

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XyZspineZyX
10-14-2003, 11:39 PM
Is that you RBJ?


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<center><FONT color="red">[b]BlitzPig_EL</FONT>[B]<CENTER> http://old.jccc.net/~droberts/p40/images/p40home.gif
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XyZspineZyX
10-14-2003, 11:44 PM
Strictly matter of personal preferences... i was flying open view for a while...due to low end system. But things changed for better and with good gaming rig i switched to cockpit and never looked back.
Funny thing, i didn`t beleive cockpit people who was saying that open view disorients them...until couple of weeks ago i joined open view server for the first time in a year...and got completely lost LOL.. Not for long, but still.



Regards,
VFC*Crazyivan
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"No matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down." Ivan Kozhedub

XyZspineZyX
10-14-2003, 11:45 PM
Sorry... I dont agree. Full Real servers are the way to go.

XyZspineZyX
10-15-2003, 12:02 AM
It's good to talk about this every month or so. Helps keep the forum game related. One thing for sure though, Its a good thing they gave us the toggle that turns it off and on. Did they think of everything or what? Well,... maybe not the ability to look around the cp edges and spars, but hey, thats for a whole other thread. I fly like i like, both with it off or on. Its my game, I can do that. When i play in someone else's game. I gladly fly the way they set it, be it off or on. it's like two different games.



Message Edited on 10/14/0306:04PM by Supr

XyZspineZyX
10-15-2003, 12:11 AM
Nope....utter nonsense. Being enclosed in a cockpit is what the game is about. Having to move the plane and deal with various canopy obstructions in order to track your target is realistic (to a point obviously) - having just a cross hair in the middle of an un-restricted field of view (whilst little arrows tell you where the current or next threat is coming from) and being able to walk your fire onto the target from ridiculous angles is blatantly arcade. Hence your name ? Mmmmmmm......

Anyway, here's to Oleg removing this vestigal element from his next sim.


Lixma,

Blitzpig.

XyZspineZyX
10-15-2003, 12:17 AM
You Go Girl!!!! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://my.execpc.com/~icicle/Wonderwoman.jpg


Sure, I'll admit I experimented with wonderwoman view once or twice. What do I care, you don't know my real name.



S!

SKULLS_LZ

SKULLS Squadron VF-98
"Better than the Best"

XyZspineZyX
10-15-2003, 12:20 AM
You look over your shoulder and what do you see a room. get real open cockpit

XyZspineZyX
10-15-2003, 12:24 AM
I fly with the cockpit on. I can't orient myself in WonderWomanView, so I just get frustrated when I try it. And the friggin' arrows annoy me... /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif Also, on a side note, it's a shame not to use the beautiful cockpits that are in this game. After all, they differ from plane to plane where as WonderWoman stays the same. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-15-2003, 12:42 AM
Ketalar wrote:
- I fly with the cockpit on. I can't orient myself in
- WonderWomanView, so I just get frustrated when I try
- it. And the friggin' arrows annoy me... /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif Also, on a side note, it's a
- shame not to use the beautiful cockpits that are in
- this game. After all, they differ from plane to
- plane where as WonderWoman stays the same. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
-
-


Yes, the cockpits are nice, and I do use them - free-flight of course - I am an arcade guy.

Oh, and Lixmu...thanks for not spamming my beautiful thread.

XyZspineZyX
10-15-2003, 12:47 AM
I prefer the cockpit view. Not only I consider it more realistic, but I think it looks pretty cool when you receive a few shots and you have bullets holes in the windshields and instruments. More immersion, you know.

GATO_LOCO

XyZspineZyX
10-15-2003, 12:50 AM
arcadeace wrote:
- Being closed off in a '3D-cockpit' on a
- small 2D-display is not the most realistic.
-

Flying around without instruments in definately not the most realistic.

Being able to look directly under your feet is not realistic unless you've just taken a flak hit.

Don't get me wrong... I'll fly without cockpit one day: when external guages are an option! Untill then, I need those guages in order to fly with precision... yanno?


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XyZspineZyX
10-15-2003, 12:58 AM
Simple. The magic carpet ride is just plain silly.



"We will welcome them with bullets and shoes."

XyZspineZyX
10-15-2003, 01:08 AM
crazyivan1970 wrote:
- Strictly matter of personal preferences... i was
- flying open view for a while...due to low end
- system. But things changed for better and with good
- gaming rig i switched to cockpit and never looked
- back.
- Funny thing, i didn`t beleive cockpit people who was
- saying that open view disorients them...until couple
- of weeks ago i joined open view server for the first
- time in a year...and got completely lost LOL.. Not
- for long, but still.
-
-

It's not matter of personal preference.

How can one call it flight sim when he can't see his cockpit and plane?

If he still want No cockpit, it's ok. But he shouldn't brag to his friends that he is flight sim master.

I'd like to call'em flying gamer... then yes, now it feels like matter of preference after redefinition. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

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XyZspineZyX
10-15-2003, 01:09 AM
VEF settings ("full real" + speedbar) all the the way. It is a more limited view than reality, but hey, I like a challenge. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
Besides the cockpits are sweet. Gotta love the way the gunsight gets destroyed in the 109s, for example, it's not just that the glass for the reflector sight gets broken, the whole sight gets blown to one side, and looks just about ready to fall off.
I used to fly with the wonderwoman view, but once I got used to flying with the cockpit on, there was no going back. No need for padlock if you have a good POV hat on the joystick.

XyZspineZyX
10-15-2003, 01:33 AM
Open view, mostly. WHEN AND IF I get a faster PC and IR view I swear I will fly with the cockpit alway on.
Till then, no way: too much stutter, the screen looks like a slideshow...!

http://www.uploadit.org/files/151003-leone.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-15-2003, 01:33 AM
I try to fly in the cockpit as much as I can,
(75-95%)but I do need the external view to
orientate some times.
Besides, I do like watching these beautiful
aircraft flying in their natural element.
So the flyby view key gets a bit of a workover
as well.
That reticle veiw is too unrealistic for me.
But....as allways its 'Horses for Courses'
Of course.

XyZspineZyX
10-15-2003, 01:33 AM
Being able to see under the nose of your aircraft is absolute BS for a WW2 fighter. You are deluding yourself if you believe there is anything realistic about that.

--AKD

http://www.flyingpug.com/pugline2.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-15-2003, 01:39 AM
I always use the cockpit,except when landing. I'll have to work on that.../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

47|FC
http://rangerring.com/wwii/p-47.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-15-2003, 01:44 AM
Both

Somedays ya fly with CP some days without depends on the mood im in.

Each has its own advantages and disadvantages so ya gotta go with the flow



"Of all my accomplishments I may have achieved during the war, I am proudest of the fact that I never lost a wingman. It was my view that no kill was worth the life of a wingman. . . . Pilots in my unit who lost wingmen on this basis were prohibited from leading a [section]. They were made to fly as wingman, instead."
Erich 'Bubi' Hartmann "Karaya One"

XyZspineZyX
10-15-2003, 01:49 AM
Sometimes there is nothing better than being the plane (nothing but pure performance) and enjoying the sheer beauty of the landscape (no-cockpit, of course)

The cockpit is nice and all but the bars are too solid (need to be semi-transparent to simulate a pilot with 2 eyes). It's just too much wasted screen space, especially when we haven't even made the jump to widescreen yet.

"The Force is strong with this one." -What an ace said of RayBanJockey during a fight when he was still a newbie.
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XyZspineZyX
10-15-2003, 02:10 AM
I like **** pit on. Seems to be more of a challenge. And it makes me feel better when I get my sh*t shot to hel*. Gives me something to blame it on! lol S!

XyZspineZyX
10-15-2003, 02:11 AM
Prefer the cockpit view but would really like the ability to lean front/back and side to side like in real life. Oh, and seeing your own hands, feet and body would be nice for the emmersion factor...

XyZspineZyX
10-15-2003, 02:20 AM
Always been a cockpit flyer and a realist since the cokpit is Lockable in FB and not in CFS 3 it has captured my attention and I fly online as much as I can in hyper Lobby.
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Baby boy on the way and time is runnin out.

Warriorbear

PS Nview hs also added more to my enjoyment of this game.

XyZspineZyX
10-15-2003, 02:34 AM
I make use of a number of instruments when flying, and I like to keep an eye on things like fuel, oil pressure, rpms, and the compass to name a few.

I can see the gaming desire to fly without the cockpit, but it degrades the experience for me somewhat, but I like that the option is available. I reckon it will make more people fly and improve the game and communitty.


So, the answer is no, but I appreciate the option and like that it is there for others to use.

This is a particularly difficult game, remember your first few take offs and landings?

XyZspineZyX
10-15-2003, 04:38 AM
All depends on my mood..... Sometimes I like to go open pit and sometimes I like to go closed. I like to have the option. I do prefer no icons though. I just think those arrows around the screen kiond of take away from the immersion for me. I like icons when in the pit though. It is definitely a different world. I dont think open pit guys are any kind of wimps cause I have been shot down by some good ones...and I dont think closed pit guys are Aces just because they fly closed pit. I DO like to have externals though regardless. There is nothing I hate more than geing shot down or crashing and having to sit and wait it out till the mission is over...(I prefer coops.../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif ).

<CENTER>http://www.world-wide-net.com/tuskegeeairmen/ta-1943.jpg <marquee><FONT COLOR="RED"><FONT SIZE="+1">"Straighten up.......Fly right..~S~"<FONT SIZE> </marquee> http://www.geocities.com/rt_bearcat

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XyZspineZyX
10-15-2003, 04:45 AM
why have realistic ammo ?

why have limited Fuel or ammo ?

why have the cockpit on ?

because its more realistic , thats why

wonder woman view isnt there to make FB more realistic
its there to add arcade appeal to this sim

XyZspineZyX
10-15-2003, 04:51 AM
I am a convert. I now only fly with cockpit on. There are things both more and less realistic about both choices, but ultimately, "cockpit off" is too easy. I was racking up an unrealistic number of kills with the cockpit off.

XyZspineZyX
10-15-2003, 05:36 AM
I only fly with cockpit. Its what I enjoy. I think everyone has their own reasons for flying this sim and should fly how they want. Me, I'll be in cockpit./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

http://www.angelfire.com/falcon/waynespics/images/Hawkinplane.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-15-2003, 05:53 AM
I actually like both, depending on the mood.

No externals and locked cockpit is probably my favorite, but there is something to be said for getting down and dirty in a no escape dogfight. In FR you can sneak up to people, and sneak away as well, in externals games you are forced to outfly the opponent, so I venture into those games every now and then.

"Bernie"

T_O_A_D
10-15-2003, 07:33 AM
I believe the game was built for full real simulation. But was wisely developed to incorporated many levels of realizm down to an arcade level. For many reasons to hook the gamer to the simmer. Aswell as flexability of your equipments capabilities. If I had a bottom end machine and I had to fly open to make game run smooth, I'd do it in a heartbeat. This game is one you should not miss out on at any level.

I prefere Pit,but as Bearcat says I like coops and externals even in Dogfights. Not to cheat but once I'm worn down or just starting I like to watch others and the paints and lanscapes. Its like a movie sometimes, and some of you play very artistics roles in it.

Its a very beatiful game/simulation I'd hate to waste it looking only at my gauges.


I also use TIR and for that I stay in Pit even in open pit rooms. Do to me getting dissorented.




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Message Edited on 10/15/0310:04AM by T_O_A_D

XyZspineZyX
10-15-2003, 09:21 AM
Alright, time for my "coming out".

I mostly fly bombers, the He-111-H6 is currently my favourite. But I do this always from external views... I think its kind of boring when all I can see is about one third of the landscape around me, and besides, if we are supposed to be stuck in the 'pit all the time, we would rarely have the opportunity to see the wonderful paintings some people have on their planes.
And watching some action in the sky while you take a break for a few minutes is also very fascinating.

Last but not least, flying with ext views helps me to detect incoming enemies & to evade their attacks (at least for a short time), and since I never figured out how to use the Lotfe bombsight properly, I also aim via ext views for my bombing runs. And sometimes during the action it truely gives you the feeling of being part of a movie when you hit the flyby view key.


Now, before some 'pit fans start flaming me up: on the few occasions that I fly a fighter, I mostly use the cockpit (mainly for aiming and target tracking - in a fighter, tracking works better from the 'pit). and when I fly with some friends of a local FB sqadron, I ALWAYS use 'pit 'cause those guys love to fly full real + speedbar. It's the friends-factor that counters the "boredom" of being stuck in cockpit (we use Teamspeak, makes things a lot more entertaining /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif ).


Thanks for reading,

- Future

XyZspineZyX
10-15-2003, 09:30 AM
I switched to cockpit and never looked back!

fluke39
10-15-2003, 10:25 AM
Supr wrote:
- I fly like i like,
- both with it off or on. Its my game, I can do that.
- When i play in someone else's game. I gladly fly
- the way they set it, be it off or on. it's like two
- different games.
-
-


i agree -

i fly all sorts of different settings and don't see any as being any better than others.

so much attitude from "full real" people - true i think cockpit on is more realistic (to an extent) but why must everyone belittle those who prefer cockpit off - you'd think those who fly with cockpit on were real ww2 fighter pilots and those with cockpit of just kids on their computers.



<center><img src=http://mysite.freeserve.com/Angel_one_five/flukelogo.jpg>

XyZspineZyX
10-15-2003, 01:24 PM
I realize that this question has been asked many times, but as I have been playing much more online lately I realize that despite my inexperience I perfer servers that don't play with an invisible cockpit.

However, unlike those who limit themselves to only the cockpit (which I occassionally play), I do like external views. Partly to just enjoy the graphics and see the dogfights. But also this helps one to navigate generally, and to see how to react during a the dogfight.

The only thing I wished was that you could have external views without seeing the enemy (Ctrl+F2), especially when there are no map icons. But it is nice to watch your enemy struggle to take-off at his airport /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Regards

XyZspineZyX
10-15-2003, 01:39 PM
LW_lcarp wrote:
- Both
-
- Somedays ya fly with CP some days without depends on
- the mood im in.
-
- Each has its own advantages and disadvantages so ya
- gotta go with the flow

...whereever it goes. I'm with you on this one. It's good to have a game that gives you as many options as FB does.

XyZspineZyX
10-15-2003, 03:30 PM
I fly just about all no cockpit.

I have a minimal system and the cockpit costs me 5 frames. add the damn dust an fog an my system crawls.

Also I have been in real cockpits (general aviation and military as a vet) and the "full real" ain't. Some poster mentioned the inablity to lean around the cockpit to get a better view. Add to that a 3d environment shown on a 2d screen w/ it's lack of depth and resolution (I can see another real aircraft and identify it better and farther for real). Further the sense of motion is not there. The lack of vibrations from the engine and airframe takes away information too. As to the view: the RL equivilant would be to have a rectangular box around your eyes so you can see ONLY straight ahead with out moving your head so there isn't any peripheral vison and you can't scan the instruments and look forward at the same time ( which real pilots call scanning).

As to the cockpit gauges see the last above statement. I have found that since I can't glance down using "natural" vision I have to look away from flying. To read them I have to get closer further blocking my flight view (no I can't afford TIR). Necessary instruments are also on some planes not placed in easy view.

"Full really hard to fly",yes "full real",no

If and when I do try to fly in a cockpit I will use external views and icons of the planes outside and just me on the map. Real pilots have kneeboard maps w/ their path drawn on them and the game map simulates this.

I fly my way and you can fly "Much harder than for real" and we will all have fun.

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Message Edited on 10/15/0302:56PM by Sniper762x51

XyZspineZyX
10-15-2003, 03:40 PM
Cockpit only. I can't fly well when in cockpit, and not at all when out of it - too few clues of where I'm looking at. Flying without cockpit is like floating in some ethereal form.


http://sivusto.servepics.com/~lahnat/werre2s.jpg

prkl

XyZspineZyX
10-15-2003, 03:57 PM
I think it is a matter of each one preferences... but for me this is a simulator and a real pilot has a limited field of vision... it is easier to fire with a wide view specially if you are turning (of course) so I prefer to be "in the cockpit" with my instruments, my revi and the whole plane around me...
I have read that LW ace Marseille has the ability to shoot an enemy just when this disappear under the nose in a turn... try to shot a plane down in a 4 G turn just with the machine guns....

XyZspineZyX
10-15-2003, 04:08 PM
I enjoyed your response Sniper, myself being an 'arcade' guy. I wasn't even half serious when I initiated this. There is a lot I don't like about reticle view - especially the arrows. I also enjoy flying full cockpit but like your machine I don't have the power for decent fps. Hopefully that will change soon.

From some of the responses here I've gotten the impression this has been discussed in detail before; I simply wasn't aware of it. I had no intention for it to be a flaming contest, just some fun and seriousness with direct experience we all relate to, one way or the other. Enough folks have understood this. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

You put it succinct, '"Full really hard to fly",yes "full real",no." I've also been surprised by those who feel full reticle is more difficult to orient. Hopefully it can be appreciated it really does come down to one's personal preference.

XyZspineZyX
10-15-2003, 04:14 PM
I fly cockpit on. Always. I want this sim to be as close to real as it can get. Yes, I realize it's a computer game. But I want as many features that present a realistic situation as the computer can provide.

Therefore: Realistic= cockpit on. Period. No one could see through their wings, nose, floor, tail. These presented obstructions to the pilot's view. Yes, these obstructions could mean the difference between killing and getting killed. That's how it was.

And no, I don't think it's "full really harder to fly". Nonsense. You develope the ability to takeoff, land, see targets, etc. just as well with cockpit on. After a while it simply becomes second nature, you don't even think about it.

And I agree with an earier poster. VEF or VOW are where it's at. DF rooms are more for just tuning up.

XyZspineZyX
10-15-2003, 04:19 PM
C*ckpit on !!

I need something to blame on when I scr*w up badly.......

Like this:


Oh those d*mn c*ckpit bars, always in the blo*dy way ....sorry mate ..didnt see u were a friendly.. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-15-2003, 04:23 PM
I feel so out of touch I can't even comment as I have never flown a WWII Aircraft to be able to comment on what is real or not. By the way, all of you since being WWII vets (as there are so few WWII craft around) I'd like to thank for the input you pass along to youngsters like me (being only 39) as without it I'd not know what was so realistic here or not.........

Still looks like an 19" monitor with pictures to me with no G-effects, threat of life, fear, etc.......So guess it will never be truely realistic to me /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif .

....Billfish / K2 / Kelly....
Wielder of the Iron Skillet
....."Husband Tamer".....
Courage~Honor~Tenacity

XyZspineZyX
10-15-2003, 04:52 PM
Like many posters, I fly both as the mood suits me. I guess I;m a to each his or her own sort.

Reasonable people know you didn't intend a a flame contest as you stated. Unfortunatly this IS the Il-2 General discussion and anything that you post can and will be attacked by the % with a " I am right, end of discussion " type of mentality.

If you feel that a bit of a broad generalization, just pick a topic. With in 10 threads someone will tell you how sadly misinformed you are. 20 threads and someone will have made personal slurs about you.

I feel much better now having vented. I think I'll go fly a mission and switch views often, because I was given the freedom to do so (thank you Oleg)

XyZspineZyX
10-15-2003, 04:53 PM
LEBillfish wrote:
- I feel so out of touch I can't even comment as I
- have never flown a WWII Aircraft to be able to
- comment on what is real or not. By the way, all of
- you since being WWII vets (as there are so few WWII
- craft around) I'd like to thank for the input you
- pass along to youngsters like me (being only 39) as
- without it I'd not know what was so realistic here
- or not.........



- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -



Your welcome mate......glad to help /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-15-2003, 05:54 PM
I fly CP on because I get disoriented without. Besides CP helps determine the point of stall when u begin to see vibrations. CP also gives me satisfaction that you are pretty close to the field of few of a real pilot, except that you cant tilt your head. And you also learn to predict actions of your opponent. For example, you go head on and you begin to climb. Your opponent is out of your sight. Like in a real fight you gotta predict where he will go. Without a CP you see were he's going and it is definitely a cheat.

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XyZspineZyX
10-15-2003, 06:08 PM
Full Real= FullHard Not Full reality

IMO

The closest you can get to reality in this sim is with:

All Icons off
No Map Icons
No padlock
No Speedbar
Open Pit
externals available
Clouds @ 1500

This give you the ability to have some decent vision and have some fun & Inspiring DF's You can check your airspeed & temp in the Pit when needed I use the Pit as a tool more than anything.

Altho I fly in FullHard servers (notice I dont call it full real) because its not.....

I have 3 Bros that fly 1 in my neiborhood & 2 online they all say that the view from in the pit is nice in this sim but its so restrictive that the OpenPit or Fullscreen represents more of what reality is like IE: Not as restrictive as full hard servers.


I enjoy flying this sim in its many differant configurations and do well in all.

Its all fun & its all worth learning the more you know the better you get try them all thats my take on it.

I prefer the above settings /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif



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XyZspineZyX
10-15-2003, 07:43 PM
When people talk about 'restrictiveness' as a virtual pilot, they don't ever think so many advantages and comfort compared to real combat flight.

How many virtual-pilot-care-element will make them satisfied? I really wonder.

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XyZspineZyX
10-15-2003, 08:09 PM
Locust; questions.

Do you say that real pilots don't use maps?

I don't intend to sound smart,just aking to see your reasoning for no map icons at all.

What are knee boards that real pilots always have are for in your opinion? I have seen in my time as a crew chief many pilots w/ knee boards that have maps clipped to them and the flight path laid out on it/ plastic sheet over it for notes.
Would you say that the game map simulates this? Would you then say if it doesn't what are they to use, their memory?

Having the the white plane on the map is the same as the pilots notes and not having to take a multi week course in arial navigation (required for real pilots licence).

It seems extreme to me. Just trying understand.

to no icons I ask how in the limited format of a computer screen is one to tell the shape and type of an acft from a black dot at that distance in real life can be done? i can see your point that you want it to be realistic but until compter screen can show 3d as well as RL i find black dot chasing a waste of my free time.

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XyZspineZyX
10-15-2003, 08:10 PM
Cool Question.

Like most I fly on setting depending on what type of game I want and it's nice to have a choice given that everyone is limited by the same options when flying on line.

I currently fly full real + speedbar. i.e. cockpit, no icons, no pad etc.. and heres something about the resultant gameplay I've noticed..

Although it seems a lot harder on the surface, I find it actually balances out the skill differences between pilots and can sometimes make it a lot more fun and immersive for every1.

The bounce becomes everything and it makes for some fun hide & seek.. even aces are vunerable to newbies if they sneak up on them well.

I guess I like it cos it's scary.. and that's gotta be more real.. cos who wouldn't be afraid? lol

XyZspineZyX
10-15-2003, 08:46 PM
map icons show all the planes, not just the white one(yours). Plus it shows Ground objects as well. Such as AAA. Its more like radar then p[adlock could ever be.

plane Icons in general are needed because of the limited res of moniters, but i still perfer no icons. to me, the big blue box with range and plane type is the single most unrealistic aspect of the game. Altough i saw a game where they were just red or blue dots and that was better. Still, i can understand how they are needed by some.


But as long as everyone flys with the same settings, whats it matter anyway? Its fair. That's the whole point. All this bogus attitude comes off like some think they are better then others because the fly with their cp on all the time. BFD amigo, that's total BS. I can really care less if you fly with your CP up or down. you should try both, but if you want some extra respect for your flying style, join the air force and learn to fly real jets. Then i'll respect what you say about flying. Too bad 90% of the people here would wash out in a week.
untill then, stfu, fly like you like and quit insulting others that may perfer to play their game differently.

One other thing, some of you guys are all full real this and full real that. So i guess that means you refuse to use any of the in game aids. Well what about your track IR? thats as big of an in game aid as any. right?

More popcorn please



Message Edited on 10/15/0303:16PM by Supr

XyZspineZyX
10-15-2003, 09:00 PM
I fly either one, but like the no cockpit better.
I use padlock.

I could say it is because my vision is 20/400 in one eye and 20/70 in the other. I could state all the pro padlock arguements. I could say that playing so called full real and ground starting with less than 100% fuel is not realistic.

But I won't.


The reason I use the settings I mentioned.The most important reason. The one that outweighs all other reasons stated by everyone now and forever....

I want too.

Buzz_25th
10-15-2003, 09:06 PM
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XyZspineZyX
10-15-2003, 09:12 PM
It's funny how many people play no-cockpit online, compared to how many say they fly full cockpit in the forums. You people need to get more in touch and get more in tune. And of course being in tune means being the plane. When I jump in my plane, I give a quick salute to my cockpit before I remove it (kinda like "gee this is interesting, now let's go FIGHT).

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XyZspineZyX
10-15-2003, 09:25 PM
RayBanJockey wrote:
- It's funny how many people play no-cockpit online,
- compared to how many say they fly full cockpit in
- the forums.

Now, most of the time, He is a clown but, it always amazed me too that most ppl on these forums say that they fly full-real and yet, all FR servers on hyperlobby are always empty! (when they are present at all!)

- You people need to get more in touch
- and get more in tune. And of course being in tune
- means being the plane. When I jump in my plane, I
- give a quick salute to my cockpit before I remove it
- (kinda like "gee this is interesting, now let's go
- FIGHT).
-

At least, he is honest..

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2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye
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Buzz_25th
10-15-2003, 09:36 PM
So am I. I'm always in the cockpit, Always! Why? Because I like it.

I could care less if you fly hanging from the rudder.

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XyZspineZyX
10-15-2003, 09:39 PM
Platypus_1.JaVA wrote:
-
- RayBanJockey wrote:
-- It's funny how many people play no-cockpit online,
-- compared to how many say they fly full cockpit in
-- the forums.

How would he know? Even if the only servers left were ones that allow no cockpit I still wouldn't use that option (I don't even know which button it is that makes it happen, LOL). How does he know that everyone in such a server uses it?

- Now, most of the time, He is a clown but, it always
- amazed me too that most ppl on these forums say that
- they fly full-real and yet, all FR servers on
- hyperlobby are always empty! (when they are present
- at all!)

Well, I don't know when you fly but I see a good number of servers that are full real and I usually see a decient number of people flying on them. Now, FR doesn't dominate HL but they are there. Also, you should note how many people are flying VEF or VOW. Some nights missions go on concurrent and roll one right after another.

-- You people need to get more in touch
-- and get more in tune. And of course being in tune
-- means being the plane. When I jump in my plane, I
-- give a quick salute to my cockpit before I remove it
-- (kinda like "gee this is interesting, now let's go
-- FIGHT).
--
-
- At least, he is honest..

No, here he's just being funny.

XyZspineZyX
10-15-2003, 10:55 PM
Sniper762x51 wrote:
- Locust; questions.
-
- Do you say that real pilots don't use maps?
-
- I don't intend to sound smart,just aking to see
- your reasoning for no map icons at all.
-
-
- What are knee boards that real pilots always have
- are for in your opinion? I have seen in my time as a
- crew chief many pilots w/ knee boards that have maps
- clipped to them and the flight path laid out on it/
- plastic sheet over it for notes.
- Having the the white plane on the map is the same as
- the pilots notes and not having to take a multi week
- course in arial navigation (required for real pilots
- licence).


I agree thats why I like to haver the map. I can do without map icons but the map to me is a must. Esecially if you are flying with others.......using the coordinates on the map you can give precise location info. Dont think for one minute that real pilots didnt keep constant track of where they were in WW2 except for those times when they were fighting for thier life and got lost or were just plain old not paying attention.



- to no icons I ask how in the limited format of a
- computer screen is one to tell the shape and type of
- an acft from a black dot at that distance in real
- life can be done? i can see your point that you want
- it to be realistic but until compter screen can show
- 3d as well as RL i find black dot chasing a waste of
- my free time.

Actually...you know what got me into no icons.... I was doing a QMB one day and forgot to put them on. It is a whole nother ballgame without those arrows floating around. You have to think about where your opponent was heading and try to figure his next move. Icons in the pit helps to keep track of things and it's kind of nice because there are no arrows with icons in the pit. Try it some time offline where thew pressure is less. It's actually a lot of fun.
Man I think this sim is so great... just think iut can accomodate all these varied tastes and do it in a grand way to boot. I was bored with CFS after a year.....CFS2 really didnt float my boat....but it was nice but it got boring too. IL2 is STILL fun to fly and FB?? Well you guys know the deal....


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XyZspineZyX
10-15-2003, 11:18 PM
If you dont't choose a cockpit, I cant see how you would feel the identity of your plane, surely the best part of the game is seeing your plane around you. Otherwise you could just be on a magic carpet or something and there would be bery little between the planes IMO apart from the tracers they fire. All adds to the immersion. Still each to thier own!

XyZspineZyX
10-15-2003, 11:45 PM
iamsnip wrote:
- If you dont't choose a cockpit, I cant see how you
- would feel the identity of your plane, surely the
- best part of the game is seeing your plane around
- you. Otherwise you could just be on a magic carpet
- or something and there would be bery little between
- the planes IMO apart from the tracers they fire. All
- adds to the immersion. Still each to thier own!
-
-


My feelings exactly, its not about purist or not, its about what level of immersion experience you want out of the game. Being in those wonderfully rendered cockpits, turning your head from side to side to look at your wings, thats half the experience for me.



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adlabs6
10-16-2003, 12:17 AM
When I tried the no-pit views, I couldn't tell where the heck I was looking, much less going!

With padlock in the cockpit, I am just now getting good at this, but it is annoying as always. Turn off the pit, and use padlock, and the joystick seems to not be connected to my PC anymore! ARGH!

How you get so big, eating food of this kind? -Yoda

Besides, I use the instruments constanly in flight, whether I really need to or not. The movement of the airspeed needle tells me my aceleration/deceleration, the alt needle tells my rate of decent, the MP guage dropping after a hit to the engine shows me how much time I've got left to get down, on and on, all in a very "analoge" way. I just like it.

I like the shake when stall approaches also.
Buffeting on takeoff.
Seeing the trails on my wingtips as I turn near stall while fighting.
Fuel guages.
Gear up indicator lights.
Smoke and oil in the front window during a tough landing.
Other stuff too.

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XyZspineZyX
10-16-2003, 02:45 AM
1st. Buzz25th is right when he said -

- Been here, done this a 100 times. It will settle
nothing, and just turn into a flame gang bang.-

2nd. AFJ Locust beat me in saying -

- Full Real = FullHard Not Full reality !


I Fly REAL Aircraft and So do 3 of my friends, And we play FB and enjoy Full setting and Easy setting, Whatever we feel like. And we can do this setting change (Unlike Real Aircraft ) Because it is a " GAME " Yes , It's a $39 GAME ! , Not a Million Dollar Simulator that I learned in. Not a High Performance Airplane It's a Game !

And there's nothing funnier then to read a reply from a person who is "NOT" A real pilot Adamantly claiming that " FULL REAL " Is the only way to go and the most Realistic Flying you can get ! - LMFAO

It's a great game , just have fun and don't worry about what the other guy's server settings are . You do have a choice !

XyZspineZyX
10-16-2003, 06:28 AM
LilHorse wrote:
-
-
- Well, I don't know when you fly but I see a good
- number of servers that are full real and I usually
- see a decient number of people flying on them. Now,
- FR doesn't dominate HL but they are there. Also,
- you should note how many people are flying VEF or
- VOW. Some nights missions go on concurrent and roll
- one right after another.
-

Ow come-on, I live in europe (yurp) and fly online in the evenings. I've also seen servers who call themselves FR but, having padlock, externals and no-cockpit enabled. Someone from our squad always have a server running. Ejgr.ost_walli also.

1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye
shall be judged: and with what
measure ye mete, it shall be
measured to you again.

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XyZspineZyX
10-16-2003, 06:56 AM
There seems to be more cockpit-on people that cockpit-off.
I am one of the not-stuck-in-a-cockpit people, you see that you are flying not sitting in a booth. As for the arrows, you can decrease the destance when they appear.
Tastes differ.
Respect to all.

XyZspineZyX
10-16-2003, 07:01 AM
I prefer cockpit and diapers.

Happy hunting and check six!

Tony Ascaso, RN