View Full Version : Subject 16. Theories.

08-13-2011, 05:22 AM
Alright, you have to deal with the fact that he's alive. It may not be deffinet. But I assure you, he must be. Now..this is when i create a theory. Im not 100% sure this is true. I am willing to accept the fact thats its wrong.

This may sound crazy but.
I think 16 may be Altair.
Now here me out.

First of all, as you all know(or at least those hardcore enought to read all the codex pages) Altair speaks many times about expanding the Assassins from just Masyaf, as the Monghol forces are reaching Masyaf.

Altair continuously used to the apple to answer questions of his. And learned great knowledge from it. However he said he used it in short, controlled sessions. Though, as he neared his possible 'death' he spoke of how there was nothing waiting for him. A tad bit of fear I suppose. He asked himself, "What harm could it take to take one last look..."

With the "..." it insists that either Altair in fact looked into the apple for an answer. Or...something else. Either way, he supposedly gives his codex to "Nicollo Polo". Now if he looked into the apple, maybe Nico'(for short) grabbed it and left. But if Altair never did...then why leave it off like this? Surely Ubi left that there for either mystery, or more likely, there's more to how Altair either died...or lived.

As previously stated, Altair may have asked the Apple, how to cheat death. How to survive. Immortallity perhaps. While inst know to give immortalliy (yet) it does in fact give one the ability to be skilled, with age. (Thats why Ezio is 52 and still kickin *** in ACR, and how Altair was 92 the last time we've heard from him) The apple probably gave him a sufficient answer (As it did with Ezio in ACB when he asked about Cesare)

Continuing, has anyone heard of the Shroud? It was called POE#66 by the Templars. It's said to be able to 'heal mortal wounds, and temporalily reanimate dead bodies'. Now the shroud was in control of the Byzantine Empire (in Constantinople) in 1204. And was lost in the "Sack of Constantinople" which many Vinetian ships and the 4th Crusaders arrived and invaded the city. What was Altair doing in 1204?
Why he went to Constantinople, to try to spread the word of the Assassin's to expand it. But this came to an end when "Fourth Crusaders were causing chaos among the population, so Altair was forced to retreat"-AC Wikia" Now with this information, I believe it was very possible that Altair, or his Assassin brethren could have swiped the shroud. Using this, he could have used it to heal any wounds he had. And with the power of the apple and the shroud, he very could never be injured and stay alive. For a long time.

Now at the end of Da Vinci Dissapearance, cooridinates are givin to a crater in "Turin NY" right where an Assassin's Symbol is placed on the codex map. Could this be the location of the shroud? Exactly how it could get to Turin is unknown. However this is a year in the future so who knows! However, this would end up being a temple. So you can expect Desmond and company to most likely arrive there before AC come to a close.

Now you could argue, "Why did they need Desmond,if they had 16(who your implying is Altair) to access memories of Altair.
Well this answer isnt clear proof but it's the best I got.
Due to the massive bleeding effect Altair suffered, and everything he had learned from the centuries he lived, it very well could have been difficult to find the certain memory need(the last one from AC1)and because he was in there for so long with them trying to find the memory, he suffered from mass bleeding effect, causing himeself to go insane from it and he knew that Desmond was alive, he could have talked to lucy. Hell maybe lucy broke him out secretly like Desmond(the two seemed rather close in the truth clusters) so he left blood on the walls for desmond to find out everything he had learned about the lies the Templars have been making. And he could also tell him about the ones from before, because one his ancestors has to be Adam or Eve. He had to tell someone of the lies the Templars have made the history. THE TRUTH, and he had to tell the next bloodline before time ranout, his last chance.

As for the ACB ending, a voice (16's) says' "I have experience with this thing" If it is indeed 16, he obviously would because he suffered from the Bleeding effect. He realized that Desmond was comatose and knew that the only way to wake him up was to put him in the animus, find 16 within the black room (ACB THE TRUTH VID) and find the thing he found so along ago that was in his library, that Ezio seeks as well. Thus syncronizing all three with one memory.
As for whats in the library vault thingy majinger.
It must be Altair, showing he had lived all these years, Ezio would realzie, as well as Desmond, that there is a way to live.
Will Ezio live as well...i has no idea.
But with all of 16's information, and now Desmonds..the two can find Eve, stop the templars, or whatever it is AC3 has waiting for them.
Or..is it all Desmonds grandson in an animus the whole time? haha kidding!

Remember: Nothing is True, Everything is Permitted, and Ubi has some effed up writing teams.

Well thats about all I can say at the moment of my theory. It certainly might have a flaw here and there. It might be true, partly true, or comeplete wrong! Im simply sharing what I believe. After all, were all here for one thing. And thats to do something until 11-15-11

(Info from both Wikipedia, and the AC Wikia)

LionHeart XXII
08-13-2011, 12:11 PM
Haha, i have a feeling some people are gonna tear this theiry apart, so before they do. I actually thought something similar to this at one point. If you played the dlc on AC2 bonfire of the vanities, when we first saw savalarola take the apple, i thought it was Altair because it showed him missing a finger(i didn'ts see which finger it was) and i went like all crazy. But sadly, it wasn't. idk though, i suppose it seems possible, but i just dont see ubi doing that to altair.

08-13-2011, 12:52 PM
This theory's come up a number of times. Ubi already said they were going to close the book on Alta´r in ACR, so that alone would make me doubt strongly that S16 is Alta´r. On top of that the shroud seems incapable of granting eternal life. In fact, Juno even says that TWCB themselves were unable to cheat death and since they made the PoE's, and therefore the shroud, it would be somewhat strange if it could keep Alta´r alive.
I think if Alta´r did something to in some way "stay alive" it was probably something similar to what this guy (http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Frater_V.O.V.) did.
There's also the fact that S16 is a descendant of Ezio, so for S16 to be Alta´r he would have to be a descendant of Ezio too, who was born centuries later.

08-13-2011, 02:24 PM
I apologize, I feel it necessary to really put this theory down, quite simply, no, the shroud does NOT have the power of re-animation in the sense which you attribute it. read the account of the death of Brutus:

From AC Wiki, can be found in Facebook "Project Legacy":
After the assassination of Julius Caesar in 44 BC, and the subsequent suicide of Brutus in 42 BC, his fellow Assassins tried to reanimate Brutus using the Shroud.

Since they had never used it before, they feared its effects, but nevertheless wrapped Brutus in the cloth. Though the corpse opened its eyes and moved its arms, it neither breathed nor reacted to any touch, and eventually fell still in a seeming "second death." As some of the Assassins wept, Brutus was wrapped instead in a burial mantle, and the Shroud was returned to its wooden storage box.

Secondly, if he were Altair, Lucy would know this, since she knows Subject 16, in person. Desmond just has not bothered to ask, it would seem. Not to mention that according to your theory, Altair would be reliving his OWN memories in the animus. I do not know if this is even possible, regardless, why do something like that when they could just interrogate him for the answers they seek.

Third, as stated above, the Altair storyline is ending.

Please understand, I do not mean to discourage you, but this theory simply does not at all fit in any way with what is known.

Subject 4

08-13-2011, 03:15 PM
Alex Amancio has already confirmed that Altair lived to be in his 90's which not only confirms that he is much much older than 16 but also it implies that he died at some point.

08-13-2011, 04:12 PM
Take a look at the bottom of this article
(potential spoiler warning)
Kind of a half rumour but in my opinion it's the best explanation seeing as Subject 16 has the same memories as Desmond etc etc.

08-13-2011, 04:23 PM
Possible.. but really, think about it. Lucy knows Subject 16. What kind of person would that make her for not mentioning anything? I do not think that is in Lucy's character.

Why doesn't Desmond recognise his voice?

Why can Desmond access these memories, but his father (supposedly) couldn't? It just doesn't add up with what we currently know.

Subject 4

08-13-2011, 04:26 PM
Originally posted by lukaszep:
Take a look at the bottom of this article
(potential spoiler warning)
Kind of a half rumour but in my opinion it's the best explanation seeing as Subject 16 has the same memories as Desmond etc etc.

...considering he's supposedly Desmond's father...
If by supposedly, they mean it's a completely random idea with no evidence supporting it whatsoever (in fact, with evidence countering this theory) then yes.

08-13-2011, 04:31 PM
Indeed, Lightrey

Subject 4

08-13-2011, 08:19 PM
Also, you should read 'The Secret Crusade' because it actually explains more in depth on Altiar, much more than the Codex pages do.

08-13-2011, 08:47 PM
I'm going to have to agree with Subject_4 and LightRey. I don't think Altair is subject 16. If the POE's did know how to cheat death then TWCB would be alive considering they are the ones who MADE of POE's and therefore should know how to use it to its fullest potential. Also in your theory you mentioned that maybe Altair is able to heal himself with the shroud it doesn't address the actual issue of aging, its not like the shroud is a fountain of youth that keeps him the same age. Altair's organs would eventually give out. Plus the object stored in the vault at Masyaf is supposed to be a game changer and I'm not sure how a an extremely old guy (however badass he may have been) is going to do that.

08-14-2011, 01:27 AM
altairs not 16 because as someone already stated he lives to about 90 which means they cant be the same person and its just stupid having that there's only one POE that can save a life and that's the shroud and i think that's only if there killed not if they died of natural reasons but that my opinion it could be the complete opposite or nothing like it

08-14-2011, 01:42 AM
You all have very valid points. I didnt it mean it as I really believe this will happen in ACR or 3, i believe this MIGHT happen. But realistically it has flaws, like the one where how can he experience Ezio's. There's really no way around that. All i was attempting to do was try to explain how it could happen. Not that it will. Simply trying to theorize how it could be possible. But as you guys have said. It is very very very very very slim chance. I do however think that 16 will be alive, maybe not Altair, but he is alive. Or atleast there's alot pointing to it. But thanks you guys!