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View Full Version : what is the most famous air battle of ww2,what do you guys think



XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 04:52 PM
Let me know what u think guys and why ,iam not asking you what is the most important or decisive iam asking you far a non scietific answer after famousness cant be measure in quantative terms ,Please state you nationality too i want to see if there is a connection .Thanks

XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 04:52 PM
Let me know what u think guys and why ,iam not asking you what is the most important or decisive iam asking you far a non scietific answer after famousness cant be measure in quantative terms ,Please state you nationality too i want to see if there is a connection .Thanks

XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 05:00 PM
One air battle is both well known and prob the most important air battle ever. (As far as decisiveness and real contribution to the course, if not outcome of a war)

Battle of Midway




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XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 05:05 PM
Although The Battle of Kursk is considered mainly an armor battle, the air battle was still one of the largest of WWII. 2,400 Russian planes vs. 1,800 German aircraft.

According to my source:
"It remains the largest armored battle of all time, and included the most costly single day of aerial warfare in history"

Oh yeah, and I'm American.

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Message Edited on 08/05/0312:06PM by EvilBen

XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 05:06 PM
I'm a U.S. citizen btw



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michapma
08-05-2003, 05:09 PM
In America, probably Pearl Harbor.

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XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 05:10 PM
For us westeners, the Battle of Britain, without a doubt. I'm sure the Russians would say otherwise. Most famous sea battle is Midway. -jim-

XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 05:19 PM
Battle of Britain I think, and I'm a martian

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XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 05:22 PM
Battle of Britain. USA.

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XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 05:26 PM
Battle of Britain, especially since it was truly an air battle, not an air-sea or air-ground battle. Not necessarily the most important, but certainly the most famous.

XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 05:28 PM
Hands Down Most Famous...

Battle of Britain

Most Prolific use of air power against a enemy.

Gulf War 1 - Sand + Bomb = Glass.


S!

Tac'

United States of America

Message Edited on 08/05/0304:31PM by WWTaco

XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 05:34 PM
Battle of Midway - Greatest single Air battle that signalled the beginning of the end for the Japanese Empire

Battle Of Britain- Most Famous

I hail from the Planet Zorg hehehehhe......

XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 05:36 PM
BOB
Midway
Coral Sea
Kursk
and Barbarossa..in the air it was gruesome...unbeknowst to the Luftwaffe they only spurred the Soviets harder in the building of their airforce..... The Later Yaks and Las were a direct result of the pressure to survive in the air.


USA

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Message Edited on 08/05/0312:37PM by Bearcat99

XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 05:37 PM
either BoB or midway

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XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 05:38 PM
Battle of Britain and Midway.

BoB because of it has been the most important air battle in the European teather; without the RAF resistence probably the war has been won from Germany in the 1940. An occupied Great Britain.....

In the Pacific teather, Midway because of the carriers that USA destroied.

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XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 05:38 PM
Here are my votes:

-Battle of Britain
-Battle of Midway
-Battle of Kursk
-Operation Boddenplate (January 1, 1945)

I'm an American too

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XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 05:43 PM
BoB, english
another that springs to mind is the marianas turkey shoot of 1944(ish)

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XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 05:54 PM
BoB - Eagle Day probably.

The begining of a large number of future aces careers.
Large international contingent too - French,Polish,Canadian etc. etc.

XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 06:28 PM
In Europe it was the Battle of Britian - no matter how it was won or who should get the credit it ended the one chance Germany had of controling the Atlantic and all Europe. Major turning point in the war.

In the Pacific it was Midway. Turning point because of the loss of pilots, and carriers. Japan never went back on the offensive and lost its chance to finish the destruction of the remaining American fleet and leave Hawaii and the West Coast open to the Japaneese navy.

While there were many other great air battles none had as great an effect on the final outcome of the war.

"Nothing difficult is ever easy"

XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 06:28 PM
The biggest are
first two weeks of Barbarossa (LW got total domination in the air), Kuban River and Kursk ( after 1943 nobody mentioned any serious impact of LW on the ground war) - for Eastern front


BoB - most famous and decisive for the Western Front

Midway - the same for Pacific, but it's more about aircraft carriers and the good intelligence I think

But certainly BoB is the most famous air battle of WWII even being not the largest one

and I'm Russian

XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 06:34 PM
i asked my german mate what he thought of the battle ofbritian once and he asked me what was the battle of britian , he works for the financial times and is very knowlegable and dont think it counts for much in germany

XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 06:43 PM
I am American. My votes for 3 most famous airbattles single day air battles (NOT whole campaigns like Kursk or BoB)

1) Pearl Harbour
2) Midway
3) Operation Bodenplatte

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RichardI
08-05-2003, 06:46 PM
Hmmmm
I think the battle over the Ardennes or the battle of the bulge as the Americans would call it (1944). BOB second IMHO.

Rich

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XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 06:46 PM
Battle of Britain no doubt
Holland here

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XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 06:54 PM
Although more of a "campaign" than a "battle" there is no question that the BATTLE OF BRITAIN is the most famous and important air battle of the war and human history. Unlike most of air battles on the eastern front which were tied to ground campaigns, the BOB was strictly an air engagement. It was also absolutely decisive,at least as regards the outcome on the western front. A Brtish loss would have made Germany dominant throughout western Europe and probably had very negative effects on Soviet survival in the Great Patriotic War. Even Midway, which probably comes next closest, probably only hastened the eventual defeat of Imperial Japan. Given the wide disparity between the industrial capability of the US and Japan in 1940-45, even a devastating loss at Midway would probably not have resulted in a US loss in the war. Also, it needs to be remembered that MIdway was first and foremost a naval battle. All the individual battles associated with the Alled bombing campaign in German Europe (Schweinfurt, Ploesti, etc.) were not truly decisive in the same way the BOB was.

XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 07:04 PM
The Battle of Britain, without a doubt.

Another interesting (air) battle:

Battle of Dieppe

http://www.luftwaffe.cz/dieppe.html


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Message Edited on 08/05/03‚ 06:37PM by Bremspropeller

Message Edited on 08/05/0306:38PM by Bremspropeller

XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 07:18 PM
I was thinking the question was asking about a one or maybe two day affair.

Midway, Boddenplatte, Pearl Harbor for sure qualify as "most famous".

The low level B-24 raid on Ploesti is a big one.

The second Schweinfurt raid, "Black Thursday", is huge.

One on one type battles, looking more at the individual tactical things, Saburo Sakai's epic mission to Guadalcanal and back to Rabaul, shot to pieces, is a classic.

James Howard taking on a Squadron of Me-110's in his P-51 won him the medal of honor.

XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 07:26 PM
Maj_Death wrote:
- I am American. My votes for 3 most famous airbattles
- single day air battles (NOT whole campaigns like
- Kursk or BoB)
-
- 1) Pearl Harbour
- 2) Midway
- 3) Operation Bodenplatte
-


Probably I'm totally ignorant, but what was the Operation Bodenplatte?

XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 07:31 PM
kyrule2 wrote:
- Battle of Britain. USA.
-
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-
- "Ice Warriors", by Nicolas Trudgian.

i know this has got nothing to do with this subject, but great sig kyrule2 looks mighty fine!

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XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 07:38 PM
A quick history of Bodenplatte

http://www.it-cetera.nl/


ROSS_Nikolaus wrote:
-
- Probably I'm totally ignorant, but what was the
- Operation Bodenplatte?
-
-

You should read "Six Months to Oblivion" by Werner Girbig (ISBN 0-88740-348-4) which devotes a large portion of the the book to Bodenplatte.



Message Edited on 08/05/0302:41PM by MiloMorai

XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 08:04 PM
Bobsqueek wrote:
- another that springs to mind is the marianas turkey
- shoot of 1944(ish)

I agree

Philippine Sea (June 1944)



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XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 08:07 PM
Battle of Britain. (I'm British)

Decisive because it kept Britain in the war, and therefore available as a base from which to oppose Germany. Without the BoB, there would have been no USAF or RAF operating over Germany later. Where would D-Day have been launched from?

It was instrumental in showing the Americans that the war against Germany could be successfully prosecuted.

It inflicted the first defeat suffered by the Luftwaffe in
WW2 and core cadre of the Luftwaffe was decimated. It never really recovered from the loss of experienced aircrew and thus weakened the LW before Barbarossa.

A Russian (can't remember wether he was a soldier or a journalist) was interviewing a German general after the German surrender in 1945, and asked him what he viewed as the single most decisive battle of the war. He was expecting something like Stalingrad, or Kursk. The general replied "The Battle of Britain".

Apart from being one of the most decisive actions of the war in terms of its longer term effects, the Battle of Britain was certainly the most 'famous' pure air-battle of the war. The ramifications of it have become legend, particularly in this country.


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XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 08:24 PM
alot of pople misenterpret the battle of britain's importance. it was important as a show of force for the allies. however germany would still not be able to invade if the it won the air war, the real deterent to invasion was the massive british fleet that would arrive in the english channel in the first days of any invasion.

XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 08:33 PM
Posted by Slickun "James Howard taking on a Squadron of Me-110's in his P-51 won him the medal of honor."

No 1 Squadron RAF had already shown the way in France 1939-1940 during which they shot down 155 enemy aircraft for the loss of only 3 pilots killed, two wounded, and one POW. 114 of those were downed in only 10 days during May 1940 as the Battle of France was reaching its climax. They were awarded 10 DFC's and 3 DFM's for those 10 days.

In one action a flight of 5 No1 Sqn aircraft attacked 30 Do17's and 15 Bf110's. They shot down 10 of the Bf110's for the loss of only one Hurricane, the pilot baling out safely. He was the last one left with ammo, fighting the remaining 5 110's single handed for 15 minutes until he was hit. All kills were confirmed by the Gendarmerie on the ground. The Bf110 unit concerned was ZG26 'Horst Wessel' who were understandably quiet about losing 2/3 of their force to 1/3 their number of opponents.

No1 Sqn were flying that famous 'unterplane' the early Hurricane Mk1 (fixed pitch wooden prop, and all) at the time, as well. No P51-style running away in that thing!


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XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 08:42 PM
I agree, I said nothing about invasion. It kept Britain in the war because if she had been defeated and the RAF badly damaged, she may have been forced to sue for peace. Same result. Britain out of the war. Running up to the battle there was a strong pacifist lobby within the government, the opposition, and the public. Churchill needed and engineered the BoB to happen over our soil because he felt under those conditions, and at that time, Britain would win it and become galvanised behind him. That is exactly what happened.

Invasion was never a practical prospect for the Germans. Hitler never really considered it possible, and was using the threat of it, he preparations, and the attempt to gain air superiority as a huge bluff to bring Britain to the table.

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XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 09:49 PM
IMHO, no contest really: Battle of Britain.

I'm Finnish.

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XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 10:13 PM
BoB

I'm French

XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 10:17 PM
EPP Gibbs

Howard's feat is famous, that's why I posted it. I said nothing about its relative merits.

It was witnessed by the B-17 crews he was protecting, got written up, and today is famous. The actions you listed are no less noteworthy, but I must admit I'd never heard of them, and I love this $hit. In other words, not quite as famous.

P-51 Style running away?

Your post was very well written, informative, and ended with an opinion that ruined all the positives your post included, and ended any chance you had of being taken as non-partisan on this subject.

I must say, the one quality US pilots displayed for the entire war, remarked upon often by the LW pilots, was extreme agression to a fault.

XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 10:30 PM
Slickun..

The last bit was in jest http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif It was a play on the Hurri's total lack of speed in comparison to the anything-but-slow P51.

I have nothing against American pilots, or their machines, at all. I hadn't heard of that P51 pilot's feat until you posted, and it is truly impressive. All I was doing was illustrating another impressive feat, perhaps made even more so by the lower performance of the machine involved.

Many LW fighter pilots did tend to view the Hurri with an air of superiority.'Tired old puffers' one of them referred to it as...right up to moment that he, and his revered Staffel leader (Horst Tietzen) were killed by one.
Any machine, well flown, is dangerous.

Yes, US pilots were famous for their aggression. I wasn't intimating otherwise! In another online combat game, Air Attack, the P51's speed makes it good for hit and run attacks. That's why I said what I said http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif No offense meant!

regards, Gibbs

"If I had all the money I've spent on drink....I'd spend it on drink!"

XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 10:41 PM
Without doubt the Battle of Britain was the most famous aerial battle... ever. In terms of sheer scope of the forces involved and the strategic importance of the outcome it has to have the top spot.

Midway was purely an air battle. The two naval forces never came within sight of each other. All damage to naval units was inflicted from the air. Fasinating because of the blend of Intelligence (It was a trap within a trap) and pure luck (IJN Carriers crammed with fueled planes). It was truly the decisive battle in the Pacific.

I'm US

XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 10:43 PM
Aww rats. I overreacted.

It WAS funny.

I know you meat nothing by it. Sorry for snapping at you.

The Mustang IS famous for fleeing in on-line actions (Runstang).

Thanks for posting the stuff about the Hurricane, one of my all-time favorite pilots, Bader, flew one.

The Hurri is a plane that doesn't get its just deserts, 'cause the Spit steals a lot of it. We on these threads know better, but the average Joe doesn't.

XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 10:58 PM
Midway involved a LOT of luck. It also involved fantastic intel work, definately NOT luck!

But, a lot of hard fighting as well.

Lets not forget. 3 whole squadrons of TBM Devastators were virtually destroyed in their torpedo attacks. The pilots went knowingly to their dooms, fully realizing their chances were nil. The squadron commander of one, John Waldron, told his men that if only one plane was left, for that pilot to go in and get a hit. Only one man, Ensign Gay, survived from the entire squadron. Every plane was shot down. The other two squadrons suffered nearly as badly.

Their sacrifice was not in vain. It pulled the fighter cover down. The SBD Dauntlesses arrived overhead minutes after the low level slaughter, and in 5 incredible minutes, dove into the Japanese formation and sank 3 major carriers. The Devastators had won the war in the Pacific with their blood.

The next day, a staggering collection of a dozen or so Japanese survivors from the carrier Hiryu braved waves of US fighters and vicous AAA, everything the Americans could throw at them, to stick several bombs into the Yorktown.

Just unbelievable savagery and bravery, not to mention piloting skills, displayed on both sides.

XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 11:18 PM
American here. My votes go for the Battle of Britain, The Great Marianas Turkey Shoot and Battle of Midway. Though really I really can't say these without mention of the prolonged air war over Fortress Europa where there were so many engagements that could qualify.

XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 11:32 PM
We on these boards share an enthusiasm and interest in military aviation. But if you were to ask your average Joe Six-Pack or Sally Housecoat from whatever country to even name a famous air battle, I would wager that those few who could even name one would predominantly mention the Battle of Britain. Regardless of its perceived importance, its fame and notoriety is unchallenged.

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XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 11:34 PM
We can argue over whether they were battles or campaigns but both the American daylight bomber offensive and the British night bomber offensive involved massive amounts of men and equipment and clearly helped to define airwar. On a smaller scale, the ground attacks closing the Falaise Gap and the air attacks on Japanese transports in the Battle of the Bismark Sea showed just how brutally effective air power could be. The Japanese sinking of the Prince of Wales and the Repulse ended for once and for all the debate about whether battleships or aircraft carriers were the true capital ships of WWII. (Pearl harbor didn't count in that the American battleships sunk by the Japanese were neither at war nor at sea, thus the success of airpower could have been a fluke. The sinking of the Prince of Wales and the Repulse proved that air power was no fluke.) As regards specific incidents in the bomber offensives, consider the few days from the end of July to the middle of August 1943 that included the Battle of Hamburg (the first real firestorm), the first Scheinfourt mission (proving that daylight bombers could both inflict and incur massive damage), and the Penemunde raid (that delayed the deployment of Hitler's vengenace weapons).

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XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 11:35 PM
I see BoB, which only lasted a few months, mentioned many times but this was only a drop of water in the ocean compared to the 8thAF's and, to a lesser extent, the 15thAF's airwar over the Third Reich from Jan 1943 to May 1945. You can add in the RAF's BC as well for around the clock battle.

Both are campaigns, not individual battles, though.

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XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 11:37 PM
>johnnyJohnson wrote:
>i asked my german mate what he thought of the battle
>of britian once and he asked me what was the battle of >britian , he works for the financial times and is very >knowlegable and dont think it counts for much in germany

JJ, I don't think the Germans have ever really thought of it as a distinct 'battle' (at least, not the Germans in the Luftwaffe in WW2).

>handyman24 wrote:
>alot of pople misenterpret the battle of britain's
>importance. it was important as a show of force for
>the allies. however germany would still not be able
>to invade if the it won the air war, the real
>deterent to invasion was the massive british fleet
>that would arrive in the english channel in the
>first days of any invasion.

Handyman, I think you are underestimating the real value of air power and uncontested control of the skies. This point was made perfectly both by the Stukas in the Blitzkrieg (which would have been used to great effect against the Royal Navy in my opinion, had aerial supremacy been gained), and then later by the carrier battles in the Pacific and the air war over Germany itself. He who controls the skies has the last laugh.

I don't believe a full scale amphibious assault against Britains coasts would have been viable either. I do believe however that Britain would have given up after the U-boats, Kreigs Marine AND THE LUFTWAFFE had made absolute mincemeat out of the Royal Navy and the Merchant Navy. Britains naval lifelines to America were very vulnerable and so very vital, points stressed by Churchill himself.

Effectively Britain would have been starved into submission. At the very least we no longer would have posed a military threat. We wouldn't have had the materials.

Regards,

BobTuck.

XyZspineZyX
08-06-2003, 12:22 AM
No sweat, Slickun. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

The Spit was definitely the better plane, but the fact is that the RAF needed both in order to win the BoB. It had more Hurricanes, and they were being produced in greater numbers at the time largely due to the Spit's complexity making it harder to manufacture. It needed the Spitfire for it's speed and climb and its ability to take on the 109's on even terms. It needed the larger force of Hurricanes to punch holes in the bomber formations. If it only had Spits...there wouldn't have been enough of them. If there were only Hurricanes, many, many, more would have been lost to enemy fighters with corresponding loss of life. (Contrary to myth, you were twice as likely to survive an engagement in a Spit than in a Hurricane)

The thing is, the Spit is so striking and just plain beautiful that people just fell in love with it and its country girl cousin, the Hurri, got left on the bench at the barn dance.

Even LW pilots insisted they had shot down/were shot down by Spitfires, even if were Hurricanes.

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XyZspineZyX
08-06-2003, 12:41 AM
Raid on Dresden, 13-15th february 1945.
DK

XyZspineZyX
08-06-2003, 02:45 AM
most famous. bob or midway.biggest.barbarossa undoutedly.


After it was refeuled i climbed in.With many manipulations the mechcanics started the turbines.I followed their actions with the greatest of interest.The first one started quite easily.the second caught fire.In no time the whole engine was on fire.Luckily as a fighter pilot i was used to getting quickly out of the cockpit.The fire was quickly put out.The second plane caused no trouble - Adolf Galland (first time in a ME262)

XyZspineZyX
08-06-2003, 03:01 AM
ROSS_Nikolaus wrote:
- Probably I'm totally ignorant, but what was the
- Operation Bodenplatte?

Operation Bodenplatte was the first stage in the German counter offensive in the western front. It started in mid December of 1944 with a massive air raid on allied airfields in Belgium and the surrounding areas. I think something on the order of 300 allied and 200 axis aircraft were destroyed in a single day.

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Stab.I/JG1Death at HL, Maj_Death at Ubi.com

At the start of WW2 the German army lacked experienced anti-aircraft gunners. The average gunner was so bad that the USSR decided to help them out. They did it by forcing some of their pilots to fly I-153 flak magnets. These planes were slow but very sturdy. This allowed German anti-aircraft gunners to get a large amount of target practice on a relatively small number of planes. Thanks to the Soviets help, by the end of the war the German anti-aircraft gunners were amoung the best in the world.
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XyZspineZyX
08-06-2003, 03:16 AM
Maj_Death wrote:

-
- Operation Bodenplatte was the first stage in the
- German counter offensive in the western front. It
- started in mid December of 1944 with a massive air
- raid on allied airfields in Belgium and the
- surrounding areas. I think something on the order of
- 300 allied and 200 axis aircraft were destroyed in a
- single day.
-

It was on Jan. 1 1945, a single day event.

http://www.stenbergaa.com/stenberg/crandall-stormclouds2.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-06-2003, 03:17 AM
* Adolf Malan vs Werner Molders..

This would have been breath taking to watch





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Due to pressure from the moderators, the sig returns to..

"It's the machine, not the man." - Materialist, and proud of it!

XyZspineZyX
08-06-2003, 03:35 AM
MiloMorai wrote:
- It was on Jan. 1 1945, a single day event.

Ah yeah, thanks for correcting me. I was thinking the air offensive started first.

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<center>I/JG1 Oesau (http://jg1-oesau.org) is recruiting. Join us!

Stab.I/JG1Death at HL, Maj_Death at Ubi.com

At the start of WW2 the German army lacked experienced anti-aircraft gunners. The average gunner was so bad that the USSR decided to help them out. They did it by forcing some of their pilots to fly I-153 flak magnets. These planes were slow but very sturdy. This allowed German anti-aircraft gunners to get a large amount of target practice on a relatively small number of planes. Thanks to the Soviets help, by the end of the war the German anti-aircraft gunners were amoung the best in the world.
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XyZspineZyX
08-06-2003, 03:44 AM
EPP_Gibbs wrote:
- Battle of Britain. (I'm British)
-
- Decisive because it kept Britain in the war, and
- therefore available as a base from which to oppose
- Germany. Without the BoB, there would have been no
- USAF or RAF operating over Germany later. Where
- would D-Day have been launched from?
-
- It was instrumental in showing the Americans that
- the war against Germany could be successfully
- prosecuted.
-
- It inflicted the first defeat suffered by the
- Luftwaffe in
- WW2 and core cadre of the Luftwaffe was decimated.
- It never really recovered from the loss of
- experienced aircrew and thus weakened the LW before
- Barbarossa.
-
- A Russian (can't remember wether he was a soldier or
- a journalist) was interviewing a German general
- after the German surrender in 1945, and asked him
- what he viewed as the single most decisive battle of
- the war. He was expecting something like Stalingrad,
- or Kursk. The general replied "The Battle of
- Britain".
-
- Apart from being one of the most decisive actions of
- the war in terms of its longer term effects, the
- Battle of Britain was certainly the most 'famous'
- pure air-battle of the war. The ramifications of it
- have become legend, particularly in this country.
-
-
-
- "If I had all the money I've spent on drink....I'd
- spend it on drink!"

BINGO!

Midway was decisive, but still second to BoB.

http://home.earthlink.net/~aclzkim1/_uimages/p47atm.gif


Message Edited on 08/06/0303:46AM by Thunderbolt56

XyZspineZyX
08-06-2003, 06:30 AM
not the most famous airbattle, but still big losses for a single day(night).

30-31. 03. 1944
Nuremberg-nightraid.
the brits lost almost 1000 men in this night.

sad enough


http://www.bayern.de/Layout/wappen.gif

Bavaria is one of the oldest European states.
It dates back to about 500 A.D., when the Roman Empire was overcome by the onslaught of Germanic tribes. According to a widespread theory, the Bavarian tribe had descended from the Romans who remained in the country, the original Celtic population and the Germanic invaders.

Bavarian History : http://www.bayern.de/Bayern/Information/geschichteE.html#kap0

XyZspineZyX
08-06-2003, 06:41 AM
How many Nuremburg citizens were lost that night?

Maybe that's sadder.



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Due to pressure from the moderators, the sig returns to..

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XyZspineZyX
08-06-2003, 07:39 AM
Amazing... nobody remeber the Siege of Malta?

S!



F/O Llancalot - 51‚? Stormo - 155‚? Gruppo - European Air Force

<img src=http://space.virgilio.it/llancalot@tin.it/immagini/banner.jpg>



Message Edited on 08/06/0308:40AM by Llancalot_EAF51

XyZspineZyX
08-06-2003, 07:54 AM
Battle of Britain would be the most Famouse, but militarily not decisive.

Battle of Midway the most militarily decisive Naval Victory in History.

Imagine the nightmare of the Imperial Japanese Navy Battle Groups , moving into the Atlantic, because their smaller support carriers had no further opposition in the Pacific, cutting off America from England, cutting off North Africa from England and America, and enabling the full strength of the German Navy to break out into the Atlantic, and the Med.

S!



Message Edited on 08/06/0306:57AM by Artic_Wulf

XyZspineZyX
08-06-2003, 08:34 AM
No one said the Battle Of Wake Island, we only had 4 hellcats against the Japanese which had like ~140 Zeros/Dive Bombers. Also the guy that suck the Arizona (I was born and live in Mesa Az) was shot down by one of the 4 american pilots. Depsite the odds they went up into the air every time. I saw a good show on it on History Channel. It was a huge boost on america too to know 140 men were taking on the Japanese fleet and winning at the time. Although the Island was later lost, it was only due to the overwhelming numbers (some 5000 to 140). Some of the marines didnt even want to surrender either.

It was right after pearl harbor and news of victory gave our country great hope, although it was later overlooked.

XyZspineZyX
08-06-2003, 01:58 PM
Battle of Britain in the West,

Midway in the Pacific,

I'm Australian.

panther3485

XyZspineZyX
08-06-2003, 02:16 PM
Battle of Midway (the result changed the whole situation in the pacific)

And my all time favorite: "The Mariana Turkey Shoot".
The mother of all battles. The biggest air battle in the pacific wih my favorite squad *VF-2* taking part in it /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif .


Btw, the battle of Truk wasn't unimportant either. It was the "true" Pearl Harbor for the Japaneese.



I'm German (don't laugh).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<table border="0" width="100%"><tr><td width="50%"><font size=2><font size="-1"> and did those feet in ancient times
trod america's pastures of green?
and did that <font color="#FF0000">anthropocentric</font> god <font color="#FF0000">wane</font>
with their thoughts and beliefs all unseen?
I don't think so,
he's up there with the others lying low,
<font color="#FF0000">vying</font> with those who you've traded
your life to bless your soul,
and have they told you how to think,</font></font></td><td width="50%"><font size=2><font size="-1">
cleansed your mind of <font color="#FF0000">sepsis</font> and autonomy?
or have you escaped scrutiny,
and <font color="#FF0000">regaled</font> yourself with <font color="#FF0000">depravity</font>?
now we all see, "religion is just synthetic
<font color="#FF0000">frippery</font>, unnecessary in our expanding
global culture efficiency"
and don't you fear this impasse
we have built to our future?
ever so near,
and oh so <font color="#FF0000">austere</font> </font></font></td></tr></table>

"God Song" by Bad Religion

http://www.rocket-fuel.com/news/images/bad_religion.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-06-2003, 02:51 PM
I'm an American and I think all of the above battles are good choices. I would like to change the topic to the most 1 sided air battle in WWII. I would then vote for the Mariannas (<--- check spelling on that) Turkey shoot. I think over 300 Japanese a/c were shot down with no losses [or at least under 5). For some reason that battle sticks with me. Especially the loss of experienced pilots for the Japanese. Just my 2 cents worth. Sorry for going off-topic.

Fireman

XyZspineZyX
08-06-2003, 03:17 PM
Ironcross, those were Wildcats (F4F) not hellcats on Wake...

...and Fireman1969, the "Turkey Shoot" wasn't responsible for the loss of many experienced Japanese pilots. Moreso it was the RESULT of the great losses due to attrition that had already ocurred. The Japanese had turned to poorly trained and unqualified pilots by that time.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif



http://home.earthlink.net/~aclzkim1/_uimages/p47atm.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-06-2003, 05:33 PM
There is doubt as to wether the famous clash of the Aces in the BoB, Adolf 'Sailor' Malan vs Werner Moelders actually took place at all.

The most common view is that Moelders, leading JG51 for the first time as its Commodore, with Galland and III./JG26 as high cover, tangled with 74Sqn RAF and was raked by its leader, Malan, as he was trying to line up on one of Malan's men. Others say Malan bounced him.

Note: 257Sqn had scrambled with 74, and 41Sqn had followed them up.

An alternative version is that 74 were engaged with JG26 and Moelders was in fact hit by F/Lt John Webster of 41 Sqn as he persued his fellow pilot F/O Lovell.

Close analysis has shown this to be almost certainly the truth. Whatever happened, 74 lost two Spits and their pilots, with two more damaged (Bounced by JG26?) Lovell's Spit was also hit. JG51 lost one 109, with a further two damaged including Moelder's who was himself wounded and out of acting for a month.

"If I had all the money I've spent on drink....I'd spend it on drink!"

XyZspineZyX
08-06-2003, 06:56 PM
The most famous air battle is Pearl Harbor. Specially after the last movie /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif . Ben Affleck and all...

The most decisive: BoB, it‚¬īs arguably whether Hitler wanted to invade Britain or not, but with Britain not neutralized the Germans fulfilled Bismark‚¬īs nightmare: war in two fronts.

"Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty but the pig enjoys it!"

XyZspineZyX
08-06-2003, 07:18 PM
Most famous? BoB I think, but the Greatest air and sea battle was the Battle of Leyte Gulf, which took place in the Philippines , involved 218 allied warships and 64 of their Japanese counterparts over five days in October 1944.
In the skies above, 1280 American and 716 Japanese aircraft engaged in combat. By the end of the fierce battle, 26 Japanese vessels and 6 US vessels had been sunk.
(source - ******ss world records 2003)

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http://www.tamiya.com/japan/products/list/48plane_img/61027.jpg


Message Edited on 08/07/0305:20AM by Avi8or