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luftluuver
01-29-2008, 04:28 PM
How many saw this PBS series?

http://www.pbs.org/auschwitz/about/history.html

Muddy17
01-29-2008, 04:52 PM
That was on the history channel the other day. In light of how horrable the whole thing was it was a good show.
More and more schools are not teaching this subject because it offends a particular minoraty group but IMO Hitler would not have stopped with the people he chose if we had not stopped him.
And Im not trying to start a debate, just saying it had to stop.

Waldo.Pepper
01-29-2008, 05:49 PM
It was on a couples years ago. I think in the 60th anniversary. (IIRC) It is originally a British series. Difficult to watch, but important to do so.

SeaFireLIV
01-29-2008, 05:58 PM
Everyone in the whole world should be forced to watch these kinds of programs - twice. First time when young and second time when they make themselves forget by around 30 years old.

leitmotiv
01-29-2008, 05:58 PM
Superb doc---not the fast food c--p on the Military and History Channels.

Zeus-cat
01-29-2008, 06:20 PM
My wife and I visited Poland in 2006. This was one of the first places we went. Its hard to describe the place. When I was there I didn't really feel a sense of horror, but every time I look at the photos I took it makes me think of some of the things our tour guide said.

One of the things that struck me was that our guide only used the word "German" once; she always referred to the people that ran Auschwitz and Birkenau as Nazis. The only time she said German was when she talked about what happened if a pregnant woman made it into the camp (women who were obviously pregnant were always sent directly to the gas chambers upon arrival). If a prisoner had a child in the camp, the Nazis would take the child and determine if it was "German-looking: enough. If it was, the child could be sent to Germany for adoption by a "deserving" family.

She also told us that Auschwitz was only used as a mass extermination camp for a short time. The camp simply couldn't kill people fast enough so Birkenau (also known as Auschwitz II) was built about a mile away. This is the camp that is depicted in Schindler's List and most other movies. The actual Auschwitz was a former Polish Army camp and is actually rather pretty if you can seperate the camp from its horrible legacy.

I can post some photos and more stories if people are interested.

Zeus-cat

jadger
01-30-2008, 12:40 AM
Zeus-cat, where was your guide from... A lot of the Poles I have met online (mostly on wikipedia) say Nazi-German about everything and never simply say ``Nazi`` even though many Poles and people of other nationalities were involved in perpetrating these crimes. But of course a lot of those ones on wikipedia have a horrible personal racist axe to grind.

Redwulf 32 - Nis
01-30-2008, 12:48 AM
Originally posted by Muddy17:
More and more schools are not teaching this subject because it offends a particular minoraty group but IMO Hitler would not have stopped with the people he chose if we had not stopped him.


You mean that schools won't teach this in order not to offend Nazis??? WTF?

I assume only true Nazis would be offended.

Pirschjaeger
01-30-2008, 03:32 AM
Zeus-Cat,

I for one would like to see your photos and some explanations (what the guide said) would be great. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

As for using the word German, well, it would be partially incorrect. In Norman Davie's "Europe;a Hisory", pg 1326 and 1327,(The Waffen SS Divisions, 1935-45), he lists the details.

He lists 48 divisions.

22 are composed of mainly non-German troops.

5 are mainly or partly Eastern European troops.

It's easy to see how claiming all nazis were German is simply false. I'd guess that this is why the guide avoided the word. In reality, nazis were nazis.

The largest non-German group were French. Interestingly, one division (The Legion of St George) was composed of British volunteers.

Interestingly, Google turned up a YouTube video about the Legion of St George, but it is unavailable to me. It's banned in Germany. Now I'm even more curious. I hope someone here, outside of Germany, will watch it and report back.

I think Muddy17 is right. With more and more details available, teaching about nazis in school would offend the minorities, but not the Germans.

Now, I know this is a sensitive topic and I know some want to flame me but think before you do. Read what I wrote carefully. I am not removing anyone from responsibility.

Fritz

luftluuver
01-30-2008, 03:41 AM
Waffen SS Divisions
* 1st SS Division Leibstandarte SS Adolf Hitler
* 2nd SS Division Das Reich (previously SS Division Verfügungstruppe, SS Division Deutschland, SS Division Reich; later SS Panzergrenadier Division Das Reich, 2nd SS Panzer Division Das Reich)
* 3rd SS Division Totenkopf (later SS Panzergrenadier Division Totenkopf, 3rd SS Panzer Division Totenkopf)
* 4th SS Polizei Division
* 5th SS Panzer Division Wiking (previously SS Division Germania; later SS Panzergrenadier Division Wiking, 5th SS Panzer Division Wiking)
* 6th SS Mountain Division Nord
* 7th SS Volunteer Mountain Division Prinz Eugen
* 8th SS Cavalry Division Florian Geyer
* 9th SS Panzer Division Hohenstaufen
* 10th SS Panzer Division Frundsberg
* 11th SS Volunteer Panzergrenadier Division Nordland
* 12th SS Panzer Division Hitlerjugend
* 13th Waffen Mountain Division of the SS Handschar (1st Croatian)
* 14th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS (1st Ukrainian) (unofficially known as Galizien)
* 15th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS (1st Latvian)
* 16th SS Panzergrenadier Division Reichsführer-SS
* 17th SS Panzergrenadier Division Götz von Berlichingen
* 18th SS Volunteer Panzergrenadier Division Horst Wessel
* 19th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS (2nd Latvian)
* 20th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS (1st Estonian)
* 21st Waffen Mountain Division of the SS Skanderberg (1st Albanian)
* 22nd SS Volunteer Cavalry Division Maria Theresia
* 23rd Waffen Mountain Division of the SS Kama (2nd Croatian)
* 23rd SS Volunteer Panzergrenadier Division Nederland (1st Dutch), formed after the dissolution of the 23rd Kama division.
* 24th Waffen Mountain Division of the SS (Karstjäger)
* 25th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS Hunyadi (1st Hungarian)
* 26th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS Hungaria (2nd Hungarian),.
* 27th SS Volunteer Grenadier Division Langemarck (1st Flemish)
* 28th SS Volunteer Grenadier Division Wallonien
* 29th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS (1st Russian)
* 29th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS (1st Italian), formed after the disbanding of the 29th "1st Russian" division.
* 30th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS (2nd Russian)
* 30th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS (1st Belarussian)
* 31st SS Volunteer Grenadier Division, variously reported as being named Böhmen-Mähren (Bohemia-Moravia) or Batschka.
* 32nd SS Volunteer Grenadier Division 30 Januar
* 33rd Waffen Cavalry Division of the SS (3rd Hungarian)
* 33rd Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS Charlemagne (1st French), given its number after the "3rd Hungarian" division was destroyed in battle.
* 34th SS Volunteer Grenadier Division Landstorm Nederland
* 35th SS and Police Grenadier Division
* 36th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS
* 37th SS Volunteer Cavalry Division Lützow
* 38th SS Grenadier Division Nibelungen

* Panzer Division Kempf, a temporary unit of mixed Heer and Waffen-SS components.
* 1st SS Cossack Cavalry Division
* 2nd SS Cossack Cavalry Division

Muddy17
01-30-2008, 09:33 AM
Redwulf 32
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/education/6517359.stm

and a quick google on the subject will reveil more

Bewolf
01-30-2008, 09:35 AM
Ah yes, the british. I heared about that. AFAIk they also don't teach about Churchill anymore...political correctness really works in odd ways.

WN_Barbarossa
01-30-2008, 09:51 AM
Originally posted by Muddy17:
Redwulf 32
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/education/6517359.stm

and a quick google on the subject will reveil more

OMG! This cannot be true!
During history people did bad things so history should be banned from schools? Another victory of political correctness over reason. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

Pluto8742
01-30-2008, 11:07 AM
Originally posted by luftluuver:
How many saw this PBS series?

http://www.pbs.org/auschwitz/about/history.html

If you want to scare yourself silly, the BBC did an excellent series a few years back:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Nazis-Warning-History-Samuel-We...id=1201716376&sr=8-1 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Nazis-Warning-History-Samuel-West/dp/B0001MIQ94/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=gateway&qid=1201716376&sr=8-1)

Also available in the US. Quite terrifying.

I agree with SeaFire, everyone ought to see this sort of film at least once just so they can see what happens when nutty ideologies take over people's lives.

Cheers,

P8.

Zeus-cat
01-30-2008, 04:15 PM
Zeus-cat, where was your guide from... A lot of the Poles I have met online (mostly on wikipedia) say Nazi-German about everything and never simply say ``Nazi`` even though many Poles and people of other nationalities were involved in perpetrating these crimes. But of course a lot of those ones on wikipedia have a horrible personal racist axe to grind.

She was Polish. I assume since she was an official guide she was taught to say things in a specific way. The use of the word German to describe the people who ran the camp is likely frowned upon.

Redwulf 32 - Nis
01-30-2008, 05:14 PM
Originally posted by Muddy17:
Redwulf 32
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/education/6517359.stm

and a quick google on the subject will reveil more

Thnx Muddy. I am completely aware of *who* might be offended http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

What irks me is that nobody dares mention the big elephant sitting in your living room. The PC BS has gone too far - way too far. The elephant is of no use, no use whatsoever.

(waiting for the ban soon http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif)

Muddy17
01-30-2008, 11:50 PM
Redwulf- ya I kinda thought ya did and your right about th PC BS, but the elephant is comming for us

GerritJ9
01-31-2008, 02:45 AM
Calling the British Legion a division is a bit over the top- there were only about 60 or so......

Pirschjaeger
01-31-2008, 04:27 AM
It's hard to believe that history is not being taught due to PC.

Isn't the subject of history supposed to be objective? Who was involved is not so important. The truth is what is important.

Fritz

Kernow
01-31-2008, 06:20 AM
Originally posted by Pirschjaeger:
... The truth is what is important.

Fritz
Well said. The reason for not teaching it, in this case, is pandering to the very prejudices that allowed the holocaust to happen in the first place. Those who don't learn (or wish to ignore) the lessons of history are doomed to... etc.