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View Full Version : Calling Veteran Flyers - Need Recommend for Jet Sim



jayhall0315
08-23-2008, 10:23 PM
Hi guys, I am now at about the five month mark with IL2, my first sim ever (and damn glad I started out with it too; I am a hard person to please and it really measures up for the most part), and I am ready to also try out a jet sim. Which one would you veteran simmers recommend ?

I have heard the most good things about LOMAC and since I like the F-18, I also heard that the Janes F-18 Hornet is a good sim. Any thoughts on these ? If they are not the best, then what is ?

Also, anyone have experince with FS X from Microsoft with the Acclerator pack that allows the F-18 (and carriers) ?

Jay

BoCfuss
08-23-2008, 10:32 PM
I have experience with all three. FSX is a resource hog, however, for a sim that you can not shoot anything in, its nice. I really like general aviation so I love it. The F18 is dumbed down and simplistic. Very basic.

Janes F-18 was the best sim ever, that was 10 years ago though. The graphics are very very dated. I would throw Falcon 4.0 in with this sim. Falcon 4.0 can be found on the net in its newest form, but still is a bit dated. Falcon 4.0 was awesome, as you could start the plane using all the correct buttons and knobs, take off at the correct time with dumbed down ATC, meet up at the right waypoint, at the right time, meet up with the correct mission package, fulfill the mission/or not and then return to base, at the right time. It just seemed real.

LOMAC is the best looking jet sim out there, it tends to really lack in immersion for me. Falcon 4.0's dynamic campaign was by far the best part of that sim, as it was completely immersive for me. Lomac is a bit dumbed down and was hard for me to get into to. Other people really like it though, the A-10 was worth buying it for me, it is fun to take out there and shoot stuff up. To me LOMAC always felt as if I was fighting in a telephone booth.

Some neat sims I'm looking forward to, and have been for years now:

Fighter OPS (http://www.fighterops.com/)

Jet Thunder: Falklands/Malvinas (http://www.thunder-works.com/news.htm)

Stingray333
08-23-2008, 10:43 PM
I have and play both LOMAC and FSX (have not tried FSX acceleration yet however). IL-2 is the only one where I feel like I am flying. LOMAC and FSX feel like games, while IL-2 feels like a simulation (disclaimer: I have never actually flown a real plane, so I have no real basis of comparison)

Though, I will admit that I am still a bit of a n00b with both LOMAC and FSX simply because I like IL-2 much better.

Without having tried FSX: Acceleration, and you were going to get just one of them, I would say go with LOMAC. That being said, I highly recommend giving FSX a shot as well!

If you get LOMAC make sure to get the Flaming Cliffs version. You can buy it as a download from lockon.co.uk if you have the vanilla LOMAC.

Stingray

steiner562
08-23-2008, 11:09 PM
Falcon 4 and LOMAC your best bet Jay forget that microsoft ****e,until they bring out another combat simulator FSX aint worth looking at unless you like cruzing and eye candy.

idonno
08-23-2008, 11:22 PM
I really like LOMAC, although I keep gravitating back to WWII sims.

I've always said learning to fight successfully in LOMAC (without using icons) was the most frustrating thing I've ever done, but once I finally got the hang of it I was quite hooked for a while.

It's all about learning to use your radar and radar-warning systems to keep your SA at a reasonable level, and also learning how to deal with missiles that you can't see coming until one second before they hit you.

Stingray333
08-24-2008, 12:04 AM
Landings are probably my favorite activity in IL-2, and I find it kind of challenging.
It just seems to me like landing in FSX and LOMAC is just too easy, anyone else find that?

Landing in IL-2 is, with practice of course, pretty easy. I can probably land 99 times out of a hundred, even a heavily damaged ship, or when I am in a rush and do ugly approaches, like having to drop 500 meters right before landing and come in way too hot. It'll be ugly, but I can still pull it off.

However, doing a perfect, three-point touch landing with all the gear and no bouncing in IL-2, is, at least for me, pretty difficult, and it's that degree of difficulty in making the landings "perfect" that I really like in IL-2.

It seems that in FSX and LOMAC, I can just point the nose at the runway, and no matter how ugly of an approach (within limits of course) that the plane just sticks like glue to the runway. It just seems very unrealistic to me and it really takes away from the "flight simulator" experience in my books. I am kinda wondering if anyone else has this experience in other sims compared to IL-2?

WTE_Ibis
08-24-2008, 12:39 AM
I loved Falcon4, if a jet sim of that calibre was released today I'd be there in a flash.
IL2 is great in many ways but I just dont feel that I'm in a real large scale war, it's more like small skirmishes. But it's the best there is so it's what I fly until someone gives me a new "Falcon4", - then I'm gone.
Cheers,
Ibis.
BTW I have Lomac, I've used it maybe three times and have reinstalled it recently but no, for me its a non starter.
I also have FSX and OMG what a waste of money.
Maybe it's your thing but it aint mine.


.

jayhall0315
08-24-2008, 03:55 AM
What is the online part of Lomac like ? Can someone do both dogfighting and co-op missions as with Hyperlobby, or is it different ? The included missions with IL2 are okay and all, ... but the real fun is flying against very good human opponents in HL (at least for me). Do the opponents in LOMAC have the same large scaling range as in IL2 (from absolute noob to very advanced masters, that is) ?

What about the same questions applied to Falcon 4.0 ?

Jay

NAFP_supah
08-24-2008, 05:20 AM
Originally posted by Stingray333:
LOMAC and FSX feel like games, while IL-2 feels like a simulation (disclaimer: I have never actually flown a real plane, so I have no real basis of comparison)

Well take it from someone who has, real planes arent started by pressing E. Il-2 isn't really a simulation and to be honest neither do I feel is LOMAC. They have over simplified a lot of aspects to the point where all it is is Counter strike but with planes and slightly more realisme.

Falcon 4 and FSX are different beasts with Falcon4 being my favorite if it werent for its outdated graphics.

Cowboy10uk
08-24-2008, 05:45 AM
OK where to start, I have most flight sims, including FSX, Lomac and Falcon 4. For me The ONLY one really worth looking at is Falcon. Yes its quite old now, BUT the campaign is fantastic and its very good fun, Its takes a while to learn, But if you are willing to put the time and effort into it, then it will pay you back. If you get Falcon 4 allied force, The online side is even fixed, Believe me playing alongside 6 of your mates, teamspeak on, Track IR working - its a great feeling, I tend to fly online at least 3 times a week, and I spot new things every time.

Lomac. Again I good sim, while I had this installed I did enjoy it, Though be warned It dosnt work with Vista, at least i've never managed to get the damn thing to run.

FSX. - IF you have a machine that can run it then its great. Sadly most of us have to put up with very very poor frame rates and low graphics just to get it to run, I get around 10 - 25 FPS in normal flying, I dont even bother going to main airports where the fps drops down to 2-3 If im lucky. The basic sim is ok, IF you pay extra and get all the VFR addons, photo scenery, airports and weather, Then It is a great experience even with the poor frame rates, BUT That all costs more money.

I guess it all depends what sort of flying you are after, For civi flying with a low to mid spec comp then I would say FS2004 For Military Jet flying then Falcon hands down. For Military Heli flying, then wait a few months for Blackshark which looks to be amazing.

Oh one other thing, If you are serious about Military Jet flying, Then get a Hotas stick at the very least. I have a Cougar which is great with Falcon, But all my other mates have the X52 another great stick.

Hope that helps.

Cowboy10uk

Korolov1986
08-24-2008, 09:03 AM
If you get LOMAC make sure to get the Flaming Cliffs version. You can buy it as a download from lockon.co.uk if you have the vanilla LOMAC.


Be warned that Flaming Cliffs comes with StarForce and can potentially waste your DVD drive. It happened to me and put me out of an expensive disc drive.

general_kalle
08-24-2008, 09:20 AM
what is starforce?
i bought Lomac a few days ago but it hasnt arrived yet. is it only when you download it or what?

Stingray333
08-24-2008, 11:42 AM
Originally posted by general_kalle:
what is starforce?
i bought Lomac a few days ago but it hasnt arrived yet. is it only when you download it or what?

Starforce is a protection system that game companies use to try and prevent the game from being pirated. I believe it tries to make sure that you have the proper CD/DVD in the drive when you play the game by having some insidious program running in the background that hooks itself onto your DVD drive.

Like Korolov said, some people have problems with it and it will mess up your dvd drive until you format or somehow get rid of it. I read about the problems with StarForce on the UBI lockon forum, so I chose to buy the downloaded version of Flaming Cliffs from lockon.co.uk, the downloaded version either doesn't have Starforce, or a different version that isn't slaved to the DVD drive.

Also, vanilla version of LOMAC (the version released before flaming cliffs) doesn't have StarForce protection. Reading the LOMAC UBI forum, some people have trouble with starforce, some don't.

Stingray

Korolov1986
08-24-2008, 11:47 AM
Starforce is on all versions of Flaming Cliffs, including the download version. How it affects the system is most likely dependent on what kind of hardware it has, software, etc. but in my case, it ate both my original (cheap) DVD and CD drives, then the expensive replacement I got for both.

If you just have the base version of LOMAC, it doesn't have Starforce so it is OK. You miss out on a lot though. The question is whether or not you're willing to risk system damage to get the extra features.

dirkpit7
08-24-2008, 01:23 PM
It just seems to me like landing in FSX and LOMAC is just too easy, anyone else find that?

Remember that WW2 fighters are overpowered monsters that maximize performance at the cost of comfort and ease of handling and are thus difficult to fly. When you come to FSX with experience of IL-2, it's no wonder that landing a C172 feels 'too easy'. Try landing a TB3 in IL-2 - not too difficult either. So it's also the plane that matters, not just the sim. Can't comment on Lock On though, I've never really played that.

dirkpit7
08-24-2008, 01:40 PM
Without having tried FSX: Acceleration, and you were going to get just one of them, I would say go with LOMAC. That being said, I highly recommend giving FSX a shot as well!


Acceleration doesn't affect the flying experience, just brings graphics updates and new aircraft & missions. I cannot use the DX10 mode though, it causes major graphical errors in my system. It's still a recommended package IMO.

jayhall0315
08-24-2008, 10:38 PM
On one RAID array, I have Windows XP running virtualized inside of Ubuntu 8.04. I can run games on it but usually suffer about a 40% difference in framerates compared to running natively on the hardware. I may try this at first for LOMAC Flaming Cliffs since I absolutely hate Starforce and the Ubi executives who allowed that Russian detritus to be used.

As for this thread, it is very helpful and I am learning alot, although I feel a little sad too. I had hoped there would be some equivalent to IL2 in the jet arena, but alas, it seems that IL2 is already at the top. No complaints there though; simming and IL2 have really been a fun ride for the last five months and I still have more to learn.

Jay

WTE_Galway
08-24-2008, 11:04 PM
Originally posted by Stingray333:
Landings are probably my favorite activity in IL-2, and I find it kind of challenging.


You would like my second early war Slovakia mission then. You get to take off from a back lot behind a house in a Gladiator fight off some Hungarian Fiats that just bombed your wood shed and then attempt to land on a road near a village one valley across.

Now I know where the bumpy parts are I can take off 9 times out of 10 but land ... almost never.

Stingray333
08-24-2008, 11:44 PM
Originally posted by WTE_Galway:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Stingray333:
Landings are probably my favorite activity in IL-2, and I find it kind of challenging.


You would like my second early war Slovakia mission then. You get to take off from a back lot behind a house in a Gladiator fight off some Hungarian Fiats that just bombed your wood shed and then attempt to land on a road near a village one valley across.

Now I know where the bumpy parts are I can take off 9 times out of 10 but land ... almost never. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yo! I'd love to give it a shot, is it on M4T? If not, email it to RCAF.Stingray@gmail.com and I'll give it a go. I enjoy landing on bumpy roads, especially if they are lined by trees

WTE_Galway
08-25-2008, 12:40 AM
Originally posted by Stingray333:

Yo! I'd love to give it a shot, is it on M4T? If not, email it to RCAF.Stingray@gmail.com and I'll give it a go. I enjoy landing on bumpy roads, especially if they are lined by trees

I haven't got around to posting it up publicly yet. Partly because the early Hungarian skins I used are vpmedia's not my own but mainly because it still has some hiccups, especially with the AI doing a bit too much CFIT.

Obviously it uses the 4.09b Slovakia map.

However some criticisms/suggestions for improvements would be useful. I will dig it up and email you a copy (its not on this PC so probably tomorrow).

Col.BBQ
08-25-2008, 02:03 AM
If you wanted something close to Il-2 in a jet arena, you might want to look up the Strike fighters series, specifically the Wings over Vietnam/Europe/Israel. Its fun flying the 50s/60s/70s cold war planes without having to rely on the all important AMRAAM missiles to do the job effortlessly.

jayhall0315
08-25-2008, 02:49 AM
Could you give a few more details. How realistic is it compared to IL2 and do they have online multiplayer avaliable ?

I have heard of the series, but dont know much beyond the name.

Jay

Erkki_M
08-25-2008, 03:14 AM
Falcon 4 is great fun in multiplay... You sit in the briefing with your mates and chat in TS/Ventrilo, planning the mission, walk to the planes, kick the tires, hop in, start the engine and power up the systems (this usually takes some 13-15min(!)), take off and fly the mission until you eventually get shot down by that IR G-A missile you never saw coming. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

tagTaken2
08-25-2008, 04:49 AM
Originally posted by jayhall0315:
Could you give a few more details. How realistic is it compared to IL2 and do they have online multiplayer avaliable ?

I have heard of the series, but dont know much beyond the name.

Jay

It's a bit clunky, but fun, and WoV is much needed, nothing else Vietnam-era. Yankee Air Pirate adds massive immersion and detail for some extra bucks.

But it can't be mentioned in the same breath as Il-2 and Falcon 4.0 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

Pluto8742
08-25-2008, 05:09 AM
Lock On with the Flaming Cliffs expansion is very good. It's a much better simulation than IL-2 (i.e., more realistic). It actually has real crosswinds, variable turbulence, systems failures etc. Graphically, it's probably still one of the best flight sims - and computers are now just about powerful enough to run it. The handbook is intimidatingly thick, though, and I don't know what the multiplayer is like, but can't imagine it's anywhere near as popular as IL-2.

Cheers,

RD.

skarden
08-26-2008, 05:43 AM
i gotta agree with pluto,Lock-on is a great game,once you get past learning the systems(which you'd have to do in any decent jet sim)it really is a hell of a lot of fun http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/partyhat.gif
definatly worth taking the time with if you wanna get into a good jet sim
Here's a pic of the very cool F-18 mod http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/7086/resizeoflockon200808161zw5.jpg

Pluto8742
08-26-2008, 01:43 PM
Here's a few more from Lock On. Notice in the top one that it actually includes scratches on the canopy lighting up in the sun, something most other sims, IL-2 included, don't really get right.

Cheers,

RD.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v402/RocketDog/LockOn2007-02-2422-31-15-69.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v402/RocketDog/LockOn2007-11-0623-23-04-87.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v402/RocketDog/ScreenShot_021.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v402/RocketDog/ScreenShot_017.jpg

funkster319
08-26-2008, 02:38 PM
If you want the mother of all Jet Sims then there is one choice in my opinion -

Open Falcon

OF is a modded version of the orginal Falcon 4 (not Falcon Allied force!)and believe me it is simply the best jet sim ever! A lot of the community over at OF are F16 jocks in RL so you can get some awesome info! The Avionics are incredbily accurate, the FM is ok and the graphics are a little dated but still good! Oh yeah it aint just f16s either ...lots of new planes mirage, f14, f18, f15, tornado, a10 etc etc also different theaters inc Desert Storm! All great stuff! Get stuck in!
************
LOMAC is good graphically but extreamly poor FM and not that good avionics!

F18 - not tried it much but bought an old copy and was diappointed , quite buggy too!

FSX - is really good IMO - but one thing! You dont get to blow sh!t up!!!!!!!! Great for navigation and BFM stuff and some interesting missions etc - a worth while buy all the same.

***************


SO.............

Do yourself a favour get on EBAY and try to get hold of the orginal falcon 4 and go OF! Set aside another 6months for training (The learning curve is steep) and endulge in the closest thing you'll pobably get to flying a jet.


Enjoy

http://www.f4forums.com/forums/

Check out Open flacon vids on youtube!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7uuu6VAQAQ&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zian_ZNBxxY&feature=related

VMF-214_HaVoK
08-26-2008, 10:29 PM
Lomac+Flaming Cliffs with the latest patches is a stellar modern combat sim. If your looking in stores it will be labeled as Lomac Gold I believe.

S!

VMF-214_HaVoK
08-26-2008, 10:31 PM
LOMAC is good graphically but extreamly poor FM and not that good avionics!

Extremely poor? Hardly.

S!

Stingray333
08-27-2008, 12:02 AM
Wait.. IL-2 can't handle cross winds? Seems to me like it does... ?

WTE_Galway
08-27-2008, 12:17 AM
Originally posted by Stingray333:
Wait.. IL-2 can't handle cross winds? Seems to me like it does... ?

Only in thunderstorms ... and they always come from the same angle.

The runways are always the same one or two angles as well.

No one really seems to care.

Post a thread with stats showing the P51D/109/whatever flew 2.34 kmh faster than in the game and you get a 300 post thread. Post a request for a weird rare plane that people think might give them a personal edge in one of those online air quake session in HL you get 600 posts. Ask about crosswinds or runways at different angles and no-one is interested enough to reply.

Pluto8742
08-27-2008, 05:16 AM
Originally posted by funkster319:
LOMAC is good graphically but extreamly poor FM and not that good avionics!

Can't agree with you on this one. The FMs in Flaming Cliffs seem to be very good, at least for the Russian ground-attack aircraft I've played with. You can actually watch the UC flexing as the A/C taxis round corners and you can burst tyres by overloading them. I'd say the FM is one of the best I know of in any flight sim. I don't think all the other A/C in the game were revised to the same level, but it's pretty good.

The avionics are a matter of taste. They're far more complicated than in FSX or IL-2, but less so than Falcon. Personally, I like the balance LO has choosen.

Cheers,

RD.

Pluto8742
08-27-2008, 07:25 AM
Originally posted by Pluto8742:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by funkster319:
LOMAC is good graphically but extreamly poor FM and not that good avionics!

Can't agree with you on this one. The FMs in Flaming Cliffs seem to be very good, at least for the Russian ground-attack aircraft I've played with. You can actually watch the UC flexing as the A/C taxis round corners and you can burst tyres by overloading them. I'd say the FM is one of the best I know of in any flight sim. I don't think all the other A/C in the game were revised to the same level, but it's pretty good.

The avionics are a matter of taste. They're far more complicated than in FSX or IL-2, but less so than Falcon. Personally, I like the balance LO has chosen.

Cheers,

RD. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

funkster319
08-27-2008, 04:08 PM
LOMAC FM - Many different views on this one and an age old debate - You can find hundreds of posts in the falcon /lomac forums if interested in digging deeper.

For me personally :

LOMAC was a good introduction to Jets, light fun but not a lot of depth.
OPEN FALCON - Was a superb master peice, a Great study sim and very very very absorbing

Its a mood thing - I love FSX for General aviation stuff, LOMAC for a quick blast, OF for hardcore realism. It's all gravy http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

But in answer to the OP - You want the best Jet SIM - Then go -

Open Falcon.