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ZG77_Nagual
10-23-2003, 06:36 PM
I think so. It seems to me the late war birds to counter this beast - when it was running right - were the p63 and f8f (which didn't quite make it but Oh boy!) Of course - f4u4 also.

http://pws.chartermi.net/~cmorey/pics/whiner.jpg

ZG77_Nagual
10-23-2003, 06:36 PM
I think so. It seems to me the late war birds to counter this beast - when it was running right - were the p63 and f8f (which didn't quite make it but Oh boy!) Of course - f4u4 also.

http://pws.chartermi.net/~cmorey/pics/whiner.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-23-2003, 07:08 PM
man, the F4U-4 just made ww 2 itself, june 1945 saw it's first combat operations.

XyZspineZyX
10-23-2003, 07:43 PM
hehehe, rock on Nagual. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

<center>http://mysite.freeserve.com/resev/images/1-picture1.gif?0.8490278826190298 (http://oksquad.free.fr)</center><font color="#59626B">

ZG77_Nagual
10-23-2003, 09:32 PM
Did someone say 'P-63?'

http://pws.chartermi.net/~cmorey/pics/whiner.jpg


http://pws.chartermi.net/~cmorey/pics/whiner.jpg


http://pws.chartermi.net/~cmorey/pics/whiner.jpg


http://pws.chartermi.net/~cmorey/pics/whiner.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-24-2003, 12:02 AM
Not so interestingly enough, I had never even heard of most Russian or Japanese planes, besides every Japanese plane being called a Zero, before I started playing this series. It's been pretty neat to learn about and fly the various types of planes in FB.

Knowing this series has not presented the same 'ol, same 'ol plane set, I'm looking forward to flying the planes like the Ki-84 and the P63....and that old favorite the P38.

I'll tell ya though, if the P63 is just a better P39, all I have to say is, Lord, have mercy on the LW.

_______________________________________
çk?¯kT 2003**

XyZspineZyX
10-24-2003, 12:58 AM
pinche_gabacho wrote:
- man, the F4U-4 just made ww 2 itself, june 1945 saw
- it's first combat operations.
-
-

Yes, first combat operations. Marine Air Group in the Philippines got their first F4U-4s in April 1945.

BTW, I believe the F4U-4 was the best fighter of WWII. So there!


Regards,

SkyChimp

http://members.cox.net/rowlandparks/jug_sig.jpg

ZG77_Nagual
10-24-2003, 01:49 AM
Next to the P63, of course. muahahahhahaha
(my uncle would agree - he flew them, and bearcats, and wildcats and f9fs etc.of course nothing that doesn't land on a boat is considered an airplane as far as he's concerned)





http://pws.chartermi.net/~cmorey/pics/whiner.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-24-2003, 03:25 AM
the P-63 ..... the best turn fighter America made in WW2

will be cool

of course the KI-84 is prehaps the most deadly fighter that japan fronted in WW2 as well .......

with more HP than the LA-7 it better run harder or ill .....


still play FB prolly , lol

XyZspineZyX
10-24-2003, 04:20 AM
Yes, as awesome as the Ki-84 was though, it was weak in the armor and had an extremely high maintenance engine, I believe. I wonder how much of that can be modeled? Maybe pick up some engine weakness in the DM, I don't know.

Armament looks good, though. Hope we get all the wing choices eventually. The 1b and 1c versions....ooh la la. I'd love to have 2 20mms on the nose and two in the wings for a total of 600 rounds. Or the two nose 20mms and two wing 30mms version, wow.

_______________________________________
çk?¯kT 2003**

Message Edited on 10/23/0311:30PM by SlickStick

XyZspineZyX
10-24-2003, 04:29 AM
Also, it's top speed was around 625km/h, IIRC.

The LA quivers and quakes at 625, but she'll safely do 660-670 and not lose any bits...well, maybe once in awhile, one half of elev or one aileron. 680+ is right out, unless extremely quick at catching it and slowing down.

I'm expecting a good fight between these two planes...LA vs Ki-84. Did these planes meet in the war? Or was one only in the Pacific and one Eastern Front? Just curious.

_______________________________________
çk?¯kT 2003**

The_Blue_Devil
10-24-2003, 04:34 AM
From what I read the 39 was outclassed in the PTO.. But then with proper tactics and courage they made due. Then again Japanese planes are flying match sticks..one pass usually flamed em.

<center>----------------------------------------------------------------------------</center>
<center>[b]"Pilots who liked to dogifght could do it their own way. I avoided it. I always attacked at full speed and I evaded a bounce in the same manner. When you were hit from above and behind, and your attacker held his fire until he was really close, you knew you were in with someone who had a great deal of experience.-Erich Hartmann"[b]</center>

<center>Lt.Col Mike "Devil" Brown
XO 361st Virtual Fighter Group </center>


<center> <img src=http://www.angelfire.lycos.com/art2/devilart/MySigII.gif> </center>

<center> http://www.361stvfg.com </center>

XyZspineZyX
10-24-2003, 05:58 AM
Ya, LOL. I'd like to see our early P-39 be outclassed by japanese planes as history has proven, it just aint gonna be.

Yank n Bank in the iron dog which in Il2 is known as the graceful puma. *rolls eyes*

XyZspineZyX
10-24-2003, 08:11 AM
the KI-84 wasnt a matchstick

was a well armoured Jap fighter .....

XyZspineZyX
10-24-2003, 08:44 AM
Don't know where Slickstick got his info. The Ki-84 "Frank" was a capable fighter with capable armament, self sealing fuel tanks and armor plating comparable to its westen contemporaries. When Air Intell evaluated a captured Ki-84 they found that when flown with high octane fuel and decent plugs the Frank would fly circles around the P-51D and the late model P-47D's. Out accelerate, out-turn and out climb. Don't recall the critical altitude or top speed on the fighter but I'll bet it is comparable to the western fighters as well.

---
<font color=white font size="3" face="arial"Col. "Fury" CO
<font size="3"><font face="bd hanover">352nd Fighter Group </font> [VR]
<font face="bd hanover">328th, 486th, 487th Fighter Squadrons</font>
<font><font color="#330099"><font size="5"><font face="brush script mt">"Second To None!"</font>

<font>[b]<font size="2" font color=black>[(HL)_352FG; (UBI) USAAF_352FG]: The<font><font color=#330099 face="brush script mt"font size="5">"First"</font><font color=black font size="2"> 352FG in IL-2FB</font>


Message Edited on 10/24/0302:46AM by PZ_D_352FG

XyZspineZyX
10-24-2003, 12:25 PM
A couple of quick sites:

http://www.angelfire.com/fm/compass/Hayate.htm

http://www.concentric.net/~Twist/airwar/ki84/ki84.shtml

It all depends on early vs later models, but under the second link they have a Toughness table:

http://www.concentric.net/~Twist/airwar/f-tough.gif


Not sure about how accurate it is, but it shows the Ki-84 as only slightly better than the Spitfire as far as AW goes.

_______________________________________
çk?¯kT 2003**

ZG77_Nagual
10-24-2003, 01:10 PM
I think I read somewhere there is a recorded vvs shoot down by a p-63 of a ki-84

http://pws.chartermi.net/~cmorey/pics/whiner.jpg

The_Blue_Devil
10-24-2003, 04:19 PM
WUAF_Badsight wrote:
- the KI-84 wasnt a matchstick
-
- was a well armoured Jap fighter .....
-
-

Most japanese fighters by comparisson are match sticks..doesn't take much to flame them with API rounds because they have little amrour plate around critical areas. Sacraficing protection for speed and manuevrability. US pilots would BnZ em all day dropping up to 3 in one pass.

<center>----------------------------------------------------------------------------</center>
<center>[b]"Pilots who liked to dogifght could do it their own way. I avoided it. I always attacked at full speed and I evaded a bounce in the same manner. When you were hit from above and behind, and your attacker held his fire until he was really close, you knew you were in with someone who had a great deal of experience.-Erich Hartmann"[b]</center>

<center>Lt.Col Mike "Devil" Brown
XO 361st Virtual Fighter Group </center>


<center> <img src=http://www.angelfire.lycos.com/art2/devilart/MySigII.gif> </center>

<center> http://www.361stvfg.com ( <A HREF=)" target=_blank>http://www.361stvfg.com</a> </center>

<center>----------------------------------------------------------------------------</center>
<center>[b]"Pilots who liked to dogifght could do it their own way. I avoided it. I always attacked at full speed and I evaded a bounce in the same manner. When you were hit from above and behind, and your attacker held his fire until he was really close, you knew you were in with someone who had a great deal of experience.-Erich Hartmann"[b]</center>

<center>Lt.Col Mike "Devil" Brown
XO 361st Virtual Fighter Group </center>


<center> <img src=http://www.angelfire.lycos.com/art2/devilart/MySigII.gif> </center>

<center> http://www.361stvfg.com </center>

XyZspineZyX
10-24-2003, 05:23 PM
Good points, Devil. And considering that Richard Bong scored all of his kills in the P38 against Japanese fighters, I'd have to totally agree with B and Z tactics against a more maneuverable fighter. Although, I thought I'd read that in the beginning, he was turn-fighting them, but revised the attack after a little experience.

Which is why the LW planes are sooooo effective, when flown correctly. No VVS bird can dive with a properly-flown LW plane or sustain the same climb.

Where most LW pilots make their mistake against the VVS is when they cut off their zoom climb too prematurely or mistake the ability of the shallow dive acceleration of an LA7, not quite getting enough distance before attempting a turnaround-fire situation and the LA closes the gap quicker than they expected.

Still, that Ki84 looks like a fun bird to fly. The LA7, P39, Laggs and that Ki84 should hold me over until the late-war Spitfires start showing up./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

_______________________________________
çk?¯kT 2003**

XyZspineZyX
10-24-2003, 07:48 PM
The later war Japanese planes had pilot armor & good self sealing gas tanks. so they were not easy to set on fire like the early Zeros & Ki43s .

Engine problems were most likely due to production difficulties, which I doubt will be modelled (unless they go overboard with this CEM thing) I don't have any reason to think the engine should be any more vulnerable than other fighters of the same era.

I too have really enjoyed learning about planes I didn't know much about like the VVS fighters & the B239 .

Great game !!

XyZspineZyX
10-24-2003, 11:15 PM
Lets keep in mind two things when comparing early US forces against early Japanese: 1st US pilots were way behind the curve when it came to practical air combat technique; everybody was still trying to dogfight in EVERY plane they flew at first, and against light Japanese aircraft specifically designed for this(A6M2 Zeke, KI-43 Oscar) they failed miserably in ALL US aircraft, including at first, P38's. Only with tactics employing energy advantage, boom and zoom, and cooperative flying perfected by people such as Claire Chennault(AVG-Flying Tigers) and Jimmy Thatch(USN)did US forces finally start gaining the advantage, even with the previously considered obsolete P40.

2: The P-39 equipped squadrons of the early Pacific war in some cases had barely recieved their new airplanes in crates before flying in combat, much less actually flying, practicing and developing usefull tactics for them. So these units and aircraft performed as one would expect anybody so unprepared to do. Look again at the AVG's performance with P40's, well thought out tactics and preparation specifically for the lighter enemy threat, and training and you'll see the difference.

As for the P39 itself, it is probably not well known to newer people here that the Russian models and the models that the US started off with in the Pacific really don't compare too well. and lookin at the accounts of Russian pilots who received these aircaft( http://airforce.users.ru/lend-lease/english/articles/golodnikov/part3.htm) results were definatley different.


And as stated previously, the later war Japanese types (KI-84 Frank, NIK2-J George) were well regarded and respected



P.S. I too enjoy the detailed information I've learned, especially about the Eastern European front, since coming to this game. I had learned a bit when I too used to play AW, but the detail of this game is astounding. (Wish we were getting F4U, but oh well)

http://www.hut.fi/~andres/m44/m44_5t.jpg

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