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View Full Version : What Bother me the most about Pacific Fighter!



MiamiEagle
03-16-2005, 11:20 PM
What Bothers me the most about the Pacific Fighter is not the lack of planes or Maps. Its how weak and inaccurate the Dgen campaigns is. I have not play with Pacific Fighter program for more than three weeks since I played the Miariana campaign and found my self flying Hellcats beign escorted by wildcats to the Island of Tinian. When I got there there where no AAA to greet me. Only a few inneffective Zores showed up to defend the Island.

I went back to CFS2 to full fill my Pacific war flying desire.

Last night I decided to try it one more time and see if the next campaign was any better. I tried to fly for the INJ instead this time. I picked the Midway campaign. Eveything was going smoothly until I decided ta a look who I was escorting.

It was Zores escorting Zeros with small bombs as strike force to attack Midway Island. Beign a History buffer that turn me off completely from the game.

Its not that the game does not provide a Val and Ai kate as well. They are available. Why is then that the Campaign generator makes such fundamental mistakes.

I hope the Dgen can be improve with the new patch.

Has anybody else observe similar mistakes by the Dgen campaign engine or a my the only one.

I have install Dgen improve version 311. Patch 303 and 304 merge patch. Is there anything else that I need to install.

I also read that you do not need to install patch 301 and 302 since patch 303 includes them as well. Is that true.

Your imput will be appreciated.

Please Oleg do some thing about this matter . Its important to a lot people.

lbhskier37
03-16-2005, 11:31 PM
look for DCG, its a third party campaign generator that is far superior to Dgen. I dont have a link off hand, try googling it.

Scharnhorst1943
03-16-2005, 11:47 PM
The link is right here. Be sure to check out netwings sight as well to get the western front to go along with it

<http://www.lowengrin.com/download.php>

There is also all the readmees you will need to get up an going under articles section. not too increadably difficult to understand.

TAGERT.
03-17-2005, 12:04 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MiamiEagle:
What Bothers me the most about the Pacific Fighter is not the lack of planes or Maps. Its how weak and inaccurate the Dgen campaigns is. I have not play with Pacific Fighter program for more than three weeks since I played the Miariana campaign and found my self flying Hellcats beign escorted by wildcats to the Island of Tinian. When I got there there where no AAA to greet me. Only a few inneffective Zores showed up to defend the Island.

I went back to CFS2 to full fill my Pacific war flying desire.

Last night I decided to try it one more time and see if the next campaign was any better. I tried to fly for the INJ instead this time. I picked the Midway campaign. Eveything was going smoothly until I decided ta a look who I was escorting.

It was Zores escorting Zeros with small bombs as strike force to attack Midway Island. Beign a History buffer that turn me off completely from the game.

Its not that the game does not provide a Val and Ai kate as well. They are available. Why is then that the Campaign generator makes such fundamental mistakes.

I hope the Dgen can be improve with the new patch.

Has anybody else observe similar mistakes by the Dgen campaign engine or a my the only one.

I have install Dgen improve version 311. Patch 303 and 304 merge patch. Is there anything else that I need to install.

I also read that you do not need to install patch 301 and 302 since patch 303 includes them as well. Is that true.

Your imput will be appreciated.

Please Oleg do some thing about this matter . Its important to a lot people. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Agreed 100%! If it had not been for IL2-PF's strong ONLINE aspets it would have dried and died on the vine years ago.. In that the campain play is about the worst I have seen in the pat 10 years of fligt sims. Oleg had better stop putting so much time and moeny into the 3D art for BoB and tweaking the FM and start worring about the AI and campain play.. Because AI and OFFLINE campain play is what will make or break BoB imho.. Because I dont see how BoB with 10 or so planes will be able to unseat IL2-PF with 100+ planes.. Not to mention all the BoB planes as the online choice. But, it does say something for Oleg.. When his only compition is a sim he made 5 years ago! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Philipscdrw
03-17-2005, 12:31 AM
Hmm, I'm about 5 missions into a DGEN 1941 Il-2 campaign, and it's fine... strike this HQ, strike that column, avoid being shot by the messerschmitts, ****, you're down to the last 7 airworthy aircraft and you're drawing on divisional reserves. Lets fly round Lvov some more, 70km missions taking 45 minutes at 300kph. Great fun.

Seahawk89
03-17-2005, 01:06 AM
Eastern Front and Pacific campaigns are two very different things.

xanty
03-17-2005, 01:36 AM
The problems is that the campaign generators are no good at creating such delicate and crutial campaigns as the Pacific War had. It was more a series of KEY battles, and what followed them was the results of such battles.

IE: Santa Cruz, Midway, etc, all happened in a few days, under specific circumstances, and randomizing these events (with DGen and DCG maths/variables) it simply cannot re-create such events or conditions. It becomes soul-less, innacurate and somestimes gives bizarre results.

These Campaign Gens are great at gound battles/close front lines as the East-front and even ETO, but when it comes to a couple of carriers, an island and limited supplies and critical strikes/defenses, they fail. Think of the factors:
* 2 cariers had no more than 180 planes (bombers/fighters)
* They could not be re-supplied on the 3-7 day battles such as Midway or Coral Sea, etc), so, what you have is what you can use.
* Movement and intel and recon were vital and necessary.
* Damaged carrier decks meant halving the air power of one side, and took some time to repair, which was a critical factor for victory/defeat.
* Etc

Maybe the dynamic factor is not arientated on the right direction. I think something like one of those "matrix" to track events and then generate an altered version of the next mission (carrying forth the damages and supplies changes to the next missions) could be better. It also could be like one of those books in whcih you have several choices, that lead you to different endings. Could this perhaps be applied?

Anyways, been using DCG for a few days, and although it takes time to learn it, I am having better experience than with Dgen. Keep the work up! both of you Dgen and DCG! it's all we off-liners have!

Sturmvogel66
03-17-2005, 01:55 AM
I agree xanty, I think DGen and DCg will be hard pressed to create realism in the Pacific theatre. As you said, it was mostly a few key battles that lasted for a few days at most. However, DCG is wonderful for ETO and Eastern Operations. I love it to death, and I will never go back to DGen now that I have it.

Giganoni
03-17-2005, 02:17 AM
I have always been upset by the PF campaign. I wish they would just fix the plane set and dates to be a little more accurate. To me just fixing that would not seem to take a lot of effort. For instance, the IJA campaign begins in New Guniea months before the IJA ever had fighter planes there! Just move up the date, I can't imagine that being hard.

Philipscdrw
03-17-2005, 02:35 AM
I think it might be possible to easily change these things yourself, by diving into the various files in the PF folder - I don't know exactly what, myself, but I'm sure other people here can assist.

EnGaurde
03-17-2005, 04:15 AM
congratulations on a well worded post that stated a preference without resorting to a pointless write off.

i do agree, the campaign system is flawed.

i think they ran out of time, the rest is so polished, does anyone consider they couldnt do a proper campaign?

fortunately there is a replacement.

Supr
03-17-2005, 08:52 AM
the campaign system is not great, but can be made better. config changes and the dgen help but what's better is to make you own campaigns, or dl some off the net. Some of those are pretty good.

Of course, nothing compares with online action; be it coops or just straight up DF's. Human's make the difference.

Philipscdrw
03-17-2005, 09:31 AM
I find online DF not quite as immersive somehow - generally, on public servers, you're flying by yourself, or with ad hoc (and unreliable) wingman. On the other hand, in the DGen 1941 Il-2 campaign, flying the Il-2 type 1 against tanks, guns, and Bf-109E and F, is greatly immersive. I fly full real, with a paper map covered in non-permanent marker - works great!

MiamiEagle
03-17-2005, 09:38 AM
Thank you guys for all your imput. I appreciate it very much. Maybe by talking about it they will do something about it.

I have do not have much to complain about the Eastern Front since it has been improved many times by many people. By now its very adequate and fun to fly with it.

I only wish more people were as dedicated to the Pacific Fitghter and try to improve and add more campaigns to both sides as they have done for the Fogotten front /Ace version. There even a Enhencer for the Forgotten/Ace Dgen engine that I posted a while back.

My main complain is with the Pacific Theater program. Its not that the campaings are short or only take a few days to complete. They do not have to bee 100% accurate but Historically plausable thats it. But having to be escorted by Wilcat while flying Hellcats in a campingn set for 1944 is not acceptable.

Nor flying for the INJ and escoritng other Zeros on a strike mission toward Midway in 1942.
Thats is simply wrong.

Thats the reason I went back to CFS2. What makes CFS2 the best Pacific Theater Simulator for me its the ability to build missions and the improvements made to it by many taletent people.

I was able to install Lowengrin Dynamics campaign Generator to it and that improved it from a boring pretty decent Simulator to a great one.

I would like to the same with the Pacific program but so far I have not able to install the Lowengrin DCG program to Pacific program.

In CFS2 it was quite easy once you understand that you needed to down size the CFS2 screen and go to the DCG engine craete the mission then go back and fly the mission.

With this program its a lot more complicated. I have tried every trick I now and nothing works.

When I think I have figure it out. I go to the DCG and try to root it to campaing I cannot find where to find it.

In CFS2 you but your campaigns folder inside the CFS2 campigns folder. From there you rout the Dcg back to it and choose the campaign you want to play. Thats it.

With this program I tried something similar trying to follow the instructuions and I connot get the campaign I want.

Perhaps one of you can help me out. I"am sure I"am not the only one.

this may save this program from extition. We need Oleg to fix this problem and we need a Dommy prove explanation on how to install the Lowengrin DCG brfore is to Late.

We also need involvement from the communitty in building Enhencement to the Dgen and to build Campaigs for both side like the community has done for the Forgotten/Ace program.

Your help will be apprecaited so we can save this program. Other wise we will only have one Simulator representing the Pacific air war.

Your participation needed and accepted!

Thank you

Miamiagle

xanty
03-17-2005, 10:39 AM
DCG is in fact, very easy to get working, as long as you know a thing or two, and only do a campaign at a time.

With the @automode@ function, you don't even need to open the application (DCG) when u start il2PF. For me, the complex thing is setting all the variants (altitude, number of squads, rate of fire, etc) but it pays off.

if u can't get it working, maybe it is good to start over again. took me 2 time to get it right :-P

Scharnhorst1943
03-17-2005, 04:45 PM
Would some of you guys who are a little more knowledgeable be able to tell me how to make already flyable aicraft available in DCG?
Everyone probalby knows where I'm going w/ this, but I'll through it out there anyway because I am totally obsessed now http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

IL2-T for USN. I have searched all menues in the program and cannot find it, even for Russians! Can it be added to available list somewhere? Would make my dream come true http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif

JG53Frankyboy
03-17-2005, 05:15 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Giganoni:
I have always been upset by the PF campaign. I wish they would just fix the plane set and dates to be a little more accurate. To me just fixing that would not seem to take a lot of effort. For instance, the IJA campaign begins in New Guniea months before the IJA ever had fighter planes there! Just move up the date, I can't imagine that being hard. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

well, when came the 11.Sentai with its Oscars to Rabaul? december 42 ............?
the whole NG map in PF was totaly in allied hands from january 43.
so it wouldnt realy help http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
also most airbases on the NG map are 1943 bases http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif realy a bad map - also im doubting that there were concrete airfields in that area at that time http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

actually every IJAAF campaign before 1945 (Okinawa & Kyushu)is nonsense with the given maps http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif
i REALY hope for the Singapoore map with 3.05 !
AND an AI controled army Bomber - i would hate to see G4M escorted by Hayabusas http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Weather_Man
03-17-2005, 06:02 PM
I miss the static campaigns from old Il2. Yes, it was the same thing every time, but the missions seemed so much more, what's the word, relevant?

The Dgen everyone begged for in FB was not a step forward, IMO. It seriously sterilized the campaign mode. The addon Dgens help tremendously, and I hope future games/patches pay more attention to this detail if dynamic campaigns are to be used. It can be done right, as others have demonstrated.

LEXX_Luthor
03-17-2005, 07:45 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Oleg (ORR suhkoi thread):: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Personally i preffer strategic campaigns like in original IL-2. But per users request we did add Dynamic campaign and with that we kept the ability of user in making his own campaigns. So right now in IL-2 we have both systems. <span class="ev_code_yellow">I am not a big fan about dynamic campaigns because i think that they are contradiction of historical facts.</span> But some people like it and that`s why we added this system. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Funny how this works. The military history enthusiast flight simmers who most study WW2 historical facts are the ones *most* interested in Dynamic Campaigns as a way of simulating history, not re~enacting history. Trust us. Be Sure. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Although they are beating me up (http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif) in that thread for playing offline, future online war creation tools may suffer, as online war is a form of Dynamic Campaign or very similar to it....unless Oleg warms up to Dynamic Campaigns. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif

Philipscdrw
03-17-2005, 08:03 PM
Oleg can't win - static or dynamic, people will insist the other is obviously better and why on earth did he choose the one he did.

VW-IceFire
03-17-2005, 09:15 PM
I'm just glad we can make our own campaigns. Someone really needs to sit down and make a proper Midway or Coral Sea campaign but with playability plus history in mind.

My Marianas Turkey Shoot Hellcat campaign, which embelishes on some of the details to make it fun, but is otherwise is accurate in terms of dates and actions. I'm sure someone could make it even more accurate...but maybe a little less fun.

Sharkey888
03-17-2005, 09:21 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TAGERT.
Oleg had better stop putting so much time and moeny into the 3D art for BoB and tweaking the FM and start worring about the AI and campain play.. Because AI and OFFLINE campain play is what will make or break BoB imho.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Could not agree more. Less about the makeup of the mg 151/20 ammo belt and more into the AI and campaigns!

Sharkey888
03-17-2005, 09:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Although they are beating me up (http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif) in that thread for playing offline, future __online war__ creation tools may suffer, as online war is a form of Dynamic Campaign or very similar to it....unless Oleg warms up to Dynamic Campaigns. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

we all know offline is where the money is. if the offliners are not catered to we may not have many more addons to bob