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View Full Version : Oleg, did the VVS not like the spitfire?



XyZspineZyX
11-06-2003, 07:26 AM
Originally posted on 11/06/03 12:05AM (server time: GMT 0)

just wondering, ive heard that the spitfire wasnt that well received with the VVS, was this because of performance issues? weak armourment? or because of the maintenance? id like to know since we might be gettign 3 spits in the payware add-on.

XyZspineZyX
11-06-2003, 07:26 AM
Originally posted on 11/06/03 12:05AM (server time: GMT 0)

just wondering, ive heard that the spitfire wasnt that well received with the VVS, was this because of performance issues? weak armourment? or because of the maintenance? id like to know since we might be gettign 3 spits in the payware add-on.

XyZspineZyX
11-06-2003, 07:33 AM
I think it was due to maintenance difficulties at forward airbases. The VVS used the Spitfires mostly for defending Moscow, I think.

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XyZspineZyX
11-06-2003, 12:02 PM
Biggs22 wrote:
- just wondering, ive heard that the spitfire
- wasnt that well received with the VVS, was this
- because of performance issues? weak armourment? or
- because of the maintenance? id like to know since we
- might be gettign 3 spits in the payware add-on.
-
-

The first Spitfires to get to the USSR were MK.Vs. However, they were worn out, having already served with the RAF for some time. Someone posted the details here a while ago. Probably because of the experience with the worn out Mk.Vs, the Mk.IXs which the Russians received later were mainly used just for the defence of Moscow. Most of the Spitfires delivered to the USSR were Mk.IXs.

The Russians weren't the only ones to suffer with worn out aircraft which had already served a tour in the UK. Squadrons in the Middle East also had to make do with old equipment, as did some UK based sqns. The best Mosquitos were saved for home defence sqns and when newer ones arrived the old ones went to sqns doing night intruder missions. I read a book by a Mosquito navigator and he said they had a lot of ac come home on one engine after they were equipped with old NF.IIs. He suspected that many who didn't come home had had double engine failures.



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XyZspineZyX
11-06-2003, 03:47 PM
AFAIK, the Baltic fleet, which later flew the captured Doras, flew the Spit LF.Mk. IXe with some success.

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XyZspineZyX
11-06-2003, 06:43 PM
The Spit was a relatively short ranged and fragile aircraft. The USAAF found that it needed way more maintenance than contemporary US types, with limited range, and concluded that it would be impractical to build licensed models of the Spit for American units, particularly when US-built a/c were commonly flown to distant points before shipping overseas.

Like Elizabeth Hurley, it was a gorgeous and hard hitting English beauty, but upkeep could be very expensive.

"Here's your new Mustangs, boys. You can learn to fly'em on the way to the target. Cheers!" - LCOL Don Blakeslee, CO, 4th FG, March, 1944

XyZspineZyX
11-06-2003, 06:55 PM
First Spitfire ever flown by VVS pilot was ironically in Germany. Soviets (they were 'friends' with the Germans by that time http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif tried captured Mk.IA in the spring of 1941. There were even arranged two test fights with Bf-109E (major Suprun vs. Major Siedemann and Flugkapitan F. Wendel).

In august 1941 Soviet delegation visited Great Britain, and they tried Spitfire Mk.VB and few months later requested if they could buy it... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

First Spits in USSR were 3 P.R.Mk.IV in September 1942, that were used in Northern Fleet (118. ORAP).

On January 10th 1943, first 35 ex-RAF Mk.VB arrived into Basra. These first Spits were used by 57. GIAP commanded by podpolkovnik Osipov.

First fight of this unit with Spits took place on 28th April 1943. Two Ju-87 were shot down, then Spitfired were attacked by Bf-109s and fortunately were helped from precarious situation by P-39s led by kapitan Pokryskhin (I'm sure you've heard the name http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

It's probable that Gunther Rall (275 victories) also took part in this fight, later realling that "he couldn't believe his eyes when he saw Spitfires 5000 kilometers from La Manche channel.

Until June 15 1943 fighters of 57. GIAP shot down 57 enemy airplanes to the loss of 11 of their own.

Another regiment armed with Spifires was 821. IAP. This regiment used clipped-wing variant of Spitfires, improving their qualities in lower altitudes (up to 5000 metres).

They destroyed 32 E/A in 93 engagements to the loss of 16 Spitfires during a month and half lasting combat deployment.4 other Spitfires were lost during forced landings.
After that Spitfires were transfered to PVO (airspace defence units) and 821. IAP was armed with LaGG-3s.

Main reasons for that move weren't poor qualities of Spitfire V.B as a front fighter, but rather logistical difficulties - lack of spare parts and british original ammo.

Since February 1944 USSR begun to get Spitfires Mk.IX (1194 fighter of various subvariants in total). These were also transfered to PVO units because there were enough of soviet fighters at the front and Spitfires had much better hight altitude characteristics than soviet fighters. At that time PVO only intercepted occasional reconnaissance flights of Ju-86Rs and Ju-88s.

At the beginning of 1945, Spitfires formed armament of 24 fighter regiments of PVO.

So, Spits were used intensively in USSR, though mostly not in the front.

There is an interesting speculation that Stalin was so concerned about high-altitude performance of B-29 bombers (and lack of Soviet high-altitude interceptors) that he actually intended to use Spitfires against Allied bombers if something turned wrong after defeat of Germany http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

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Buzz_25th
11-06-2003, 06:59 PM
I believe part of the problem was the low octane and poor quality of the Russian fuel. The Merlin liked a better diet.

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XyZspineZyX
11-06-2003, 07:01 PM
horseback wrote:
- Like Elizabeth Hurley, it was a gorgeous and hard
- hitting English beauty, but upkeep could be very
- expensive.

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XyZspineZyX
11-06-2003, 09:55 PM
Well, the VVS liked the spitfires but, they allready had thousands of their own planes and, fitting in the english planes would be quite difficult I think. all diffrent kind of measurments of bolts...

The spit required alot more maintenance then the standard VVS plane so, logistically it would've been very difficult.

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