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View Full Version : Differential Braking adversly effected



BSS_Vidar
06-26-2005, 10:52 AM
Hey all, just wanted to report a little finding. The new FM's torque has significantly hindered differential braking during taxi operations. Particulary in the confined space of a flight deck. At times in a PF DF server, a weapons load-out is needed to fly the senerio's objectives (from a carrier deck). With no wind, a re-spot is needed all the way aft to get enough deck-run to get airborn with certain load-outs.

I've notice a big difference in the ability to lock up one wheele and being able to pivot on it. This results in taxing off the deck while using the whole width of the flight deck at slow careful turn executions. This is especialy bad while trying to turn to the right against the torque and P-factor.

I think -for the sake of dedicated carrier flyers- that they need to just give in and assign three keyboard commands, one for each wheel for differential braking, and another that lets you apply brakes to both sides equaly. Plus, give us two axis which will allow one for each wheel for those of us with pedals with toe braking ability.

This has been an issue in the past that was workable, but know it has become more of a problem.

NonWonderDog
06-26-2005, 11:15 AM
That would be nice, but in the meantime make sure that your tailwheel isn't locked if you want to taxi. They finally fixed it so that locking the tailwheel keeps the tailwheel from turning. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

An unlocked tailwheel is free to castor. Use that to taxi. Only lock it for takeoff and landing. You ARE supposed to lock it for takeoff AND landing, and it is NOT an unrealistic feature. It doesn't make you more of a man if you don't use it.

Just FYI; there's been a lot of confusion about this recently. This probably isn't your problem, though, and I agree with you about differential brakes.

AviationArtist
06-26-2005, 12:58 PM
~S~

I mentioned this (ground braking) in the bug report thread earlier for aircraft in general. I added it as more if an open question, as I wasn't sure if the new performance was a tweak to more realistic performance as no notice of any alterations to the wheel brakes has been made (at least none I could find).

Aside from carrier ops, the ground handling of the Fiat CR.42 is now just awful. If you haven't tried it yet, give it a go http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif
I made a track and set it off in an email to 1C.
If you try to turn left, it's a real effort. You need full power + boost to get it to move at all, and just as it starts to move, the engine power overpowers the brakes and you go hurtling off!! As for trying to turn right, well it just won't happen http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

Also, when you manage to stop, the aircraft does a little hop or jump, and this is no matter if you were braking from 50km/h or less than 10km/h.

BSS_Vidar
06-26-2005, 02:28 PM
I never use tail wheele lock. Mine always casters. I just throttle up slowly now till enough speed builds up to give rudder the authority needed to counter the torque effect.

For flight deck taxiing, you must have the ability to lock and pivot on either main-mount. As of now, it takes the entire width of the flight deck to do a simple 180.Gets kind of hairy when you have a deck full of team mates. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

AerialTarget
06-26-2005, 11:34 PM
It's definitely a step down, one of the only steps downward in the patch.

NonWonderDog
06-26-2005, 11:50 PM
The current system is actually correct for Russian and British planes, though. In general, it's just the German and American planes that had toe brakes. I don't know about the others.

It would be nice to have separate differential brake controls for those planes that used them, but it would be painfully confusing to have two completely different systems. This is most likely something that won't be changed.

That said, a lot of planes are a lot harder to turn in place in 4.01. I don't know how accurate this is, but it's really something we need to be able to do if we don't have any ground crews.

zaelu
06-27-2005, 07:22 AM
I've noticed too a change in braking behaivor of aircrafts...
It seems that if you throtle back, center rudder and release brakes then, quickly brake hard again with rudder and little throtle the plane is somehow returning to the old way of brake-turning.

VT-51_Razor
06-27-2005, 07:58 AM
Here here Vidar! The ground handling really suffered in this patch. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

Bearcat99
06-28-2005, 05:49 AM
Are you sure? I can do doughnuts on the flight deck. If you hold down your brake and give it max rudder in the direction you want to turn it will roll on the wheel... simukated differential braking... and it is even better now that the tailwheel actually works.

FritzGryphon
06-28-2005, 06:08 AM
I agree, it's just as easy, if not easier to make tight turns.

Of course, it doesn't change the handling of planes on moving carriers. Also, the plane has a new weird tendancy to slide sideways if you have any amount of speed.

As well, a lot of planes are nearly untaxiable, like the CR42, for some strange reason.

BSS_Vidar
06-28-2005, 08:33 AM
I've been fiddlin' with deck taxiing and you're right. You can loop it on deck. You can't have any forward momentum to do it though. You have to come to a "complete" stop then execute the turn kicking in full rudder with brake. Any forward motion, the plane almost takes up the entire width of the flight deck to do a 180. The desired main-mount should be able to lock up tight no matter if you're sitting still, or have a little forward movement.

Can you imagine Russian planes trying to move about on deck with that arcaic braking system they used? Gives me the shivers just thinkin' about it. lol

I've asked Oleg via email about this. His responce was- "They had a "vote" and decided this braking technique was good enough for the game." Well, I didn't get to vote.

If you're primarilly a carrier pilot like myself. You watch with distain as Luft boys, Ponny drivers, and Yak jockys don't have to worry about breaking. They've got all kinds of room and don't have to worry about somthing as mundane as differential breaking. So there we sit, and will probably remain sitting.

Maybe if PF hadn't been made an add-on, we would have gotten it, but now we'll never know. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

VT-51_Razor
06-28-2005, 02:07 PM
Bearcat and Vidar, take a carrier plane and put it on a grass field and see the difference in "differential" braking ability! The difference between the two is amazing.

Blackjack174
06-28-2005, 04:26 PM
Originally posted by FritzGryphon:
I agree, it's just as easy, if not easier to make tight turns.

Of course, it doesn't change the handling of planes on moving carriers. Also, the plane has a new weird tendancy to slide sideways if you have any amount of speed.

As well, a lot of planes are nearly untaxiable, like the CR42, for some strange reason.
Yes , agree about the cr42 , it looks like it has been modelled with a fixed tailwheel, as now the tailwheels authority seems boosted in the "fixed" position this plane is increadibnly hard to taxi , just go faster than 30kmh and push the stick forward to see what I mean (u take weight of the tailwheel and wizz around if braking+full rudder)

PapaG39
06-29-2005, 10:55 PM
I have the CH Pro Pedals & I use to (pre 4.01) be able to turn a 180 degree turn very well.
NOW, It will sometimes turn a 180 & other times it stops half way thru the turn & just goes straight or it will just stay stopped or starts to turn & then goes straight...
It is definately not as good as it use to be.
I know that some older (WWll) aircraft could not do differrential breaking & others could...I have no idea which did or didn't. however, in this ***GAME*** we need to be able to turn a 180 from time to time for various reasons, & we definately can't call the ground crew to turn the aircraft...soooo..

The braking is definately worse with the 401 patch...

DDastardlySID
06-30-2005, 09:29 PM
I noticed some buggy behaviour today when taxiing in an HE-111. As I turned to get off the main runway after landing, the plane turned too far and got stuck going in circles. Both engines were undamaged yet no combination of power, rudder, braking or even rudder trim allowed me to get out of the loop I was stuck in. An external view showed that the rudder was responding fine to my control inputs, but despite this I couldn't stop circling even with full opposite rudder.

Also on the subject of dodgy ground handling, since 4.01 there have been a few occasions where I've seen a stationary plane get stuck in a permanent state of bouncing just after coming to a halt, so it definitely looks like a few tweaks are needed to the new physics wrt taxiing aircraft.

Cheers,
DD