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XyZspineZyX
08-10-2003, 12:52 PM
None of the information regarding bug fixes in the upcoming patch addresses navigation. It has been previously posted that the ability of each player to select their own waypoint would be of great benefit whether you're an offline or online flier. Janes WWII Fighters allowed the pilot to designate "next" or "previous" waypoints rather than having to over-fly each one. This is particularly useful if you've gotten separated from the rest of the flight. Lately in FB I've noticed in online co-ops that, unless I am the flight leader, even if I do over-fly the waypoint, the mini-map path line will advance to the next waypoint, but then reverts back to the initial waypoint in the course. I haven't seen it happen when play testing a co-op mission offline. Is anyone else experiencing this?

XyZspineZyX
08-10-2003, 12:52 PM
None of the information regarding bug fixes in the upcoming patch addresses navigation. It has been previously posted that the ability of each player to select their own waypoint would be of great benefit whether you're an offline or online flier. Janes WWII Fighters allowed the pilot to designate "next" or "previous" waypoints rather than having to over-fly each one. This is particularly useful if you've gotten separated from the rest of the flight. Lately in FB I've noticed in online co-ops that, unless I am the flight leader, even if I do over-fly the waypoint, the mini-map path line will advance to the next waypoint, but then reverts back to the initial waypoint in the course. I haven't seen it happen when play testing a co-op mission offline. Is anyone else experiencing this?

XyZspineZyX
08-10-2003, 01:18 PM
Same here. If you're flying solo you can't set the next waypoint up (which is useful when flying aircraft with waypoint indicators, like the He111) and you can't if you're not the lead in a multiplane flight, either.


SSgt Tim Schuster
8MXS Inspection Section
Kunsan AB, Korea

-Defend the Forums!
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XyZspineZyX
08-11-2003, 01:56 PM
Or how about even *gasp* giving us the freedom to navigate as we find best, waypoints or no waypoints... and have the rest of the formation stay with their lead!

Quite a novel concept. It has only been done that way in every airforce pretty much since they were first able to get more than one aircraft in the air at one time. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Cheers,
Fred

No sig as of now, as people apparently can't handle reality without creating too much trouble for the poor mods.

XyZspineZyX
08-11-2003, 02:20 PM
effte wrote:
- Or how about even *gasp* giving us the freedom to
- navigate as we find best, waypoints or no
- waypoints... and have the rest of the formation stay
- with their lead!

There is nothing preventing you from doing that already.
-
- Quite a novel concept. It has only been done that
- way in every airforce pretty much since they were
- first able to get more than one aircraft in the air
- at one time.

Teamwork has the demonstrated ability to succeed. Sakai noted that the Americans, even though flying inferior Wildcats against their superior Zekes, were able to overcome by tactical teamwork. Lone wolf flying may succeed on occasion, but it's hard to beat a coordinated effort. Personally, I think every plane in the sim should have a CDI (course direction indicator). I like to turn the mini-map path off and fly by reference to instruments and pilotage. My point was that, if the waypoints do not advance automatically or if you cannot select "next" or "previous", the CDI is pretty much useless. Pilotage is out of the question if you can't see the ground.

XyZspineZyX
08-12-2003, 02:36 PM
ZG77_Spectre wrote:
- effte wrote:
-- Or how about even *gasp* giving us the freedom to
-- navigate as we find best, waypoints or no
-- waypoints... and have the rest of the formation stay
-- with their lead!
-
- There is nothing preventing you from doing that
- already.

I will have to double-check in FB that they in fact do not stray out of formation if you as lead decide on a detour mid-mission. If so, great!

- Personally, I think
- every plane in the sim should have a CDI (course
- direction indicator). I like to turn the mini-map
- path off and fly by reference to instruments and
- pilotage.

Exactly why there should NOT be a direction indicator. There was no such thing which is why you had to fly on pilotage, as you put it. Clock, compass, ASI, altimeter and landmarks!

- My point was that, if the waypoints do
- not advance automatically or if you cannot select
- "next" or "previous", the CDI is pretty much
- useless.

Great.

- Pilotage is out of the question if you
- can't see the ground

Ded (yes, not dead - from 'deductive') reckoning is what you use when flying on top. That's pilotage. Following a course indicator blindly when there shouldn't be one is Afterburner 2.

Cheers,
Fred

No sig as of now, as people apparently can't handle reality without creating too much trouble for the poor mods.

XyZspineZyX
08-12-2003, 04:20 PM
effte wrote:
- I will have to double-check in FB that they in fact
- do not stray out of formation if you as lead decide
- on a detour mid-mission. If so, great!
-
-- Personally, I think
-- every plane in the sim should have a CDI (course
-- direction indicator). I like to turn the mini-map
-- path off and fly by reference to instruments and
-- pilotage.

-- Pilotage is out of the question if you
-- can't see the ground
-
- Ded (yes, not dead - from 'deductive') reckoning is
- what you use when flying on top. That's pilotage.
- Following a course indicator blindly when there
- shouldn't be one is Afterburner 2.
-
- Cheers,
- Fred

Perhaps I misunderstood your original point. It did not seem you were acting as flight leader.

Pilotage, as was taught to me in the U.S., referred to flying with reference to topographical and manmade points. "Dead (deductive) reckoning" was time & speed corrected for crosswind/headwind, magnetic deviation, etc.

Perhaps you are not aware that there was electronic navigation in World War II. Nothing could be further from the truth. In fact, it makes for some rather fascinating reading. The Luftwaffe even used it to mark bomb release points (coincidence of two directional beams).

Cheers back,
Spectre

XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 07:10 AM
ZG77_Spectre wrote:
- Perhaps I misunderstood your original point. It did
- not seem you were acting as flight leader.

Well, I thought it was rather implied. If you're not flight leader you do not and should not have freedom to select where to fly, right? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

- Pilotage, as was taught to me in the U.S., referred
- to flying with reference to topographical and
- manmade points.

CC. To me, pilotage means all the skills which enable you to safely bring an aircraft from point A to B, possibly with a brief detour to point C to photograph the scenic view of a feature at point D. Finding the burger joint at point E after landing is a necessary skill but not included (unless you happen to find the worlds first fly-in fast food place)!

- Perhaps you are not aware that there was electronic
- navigation in World War II.

Couldn't be more aware of the fact. However, there was certainly no such thing as we see in FB. A/N beacons and RDF was state of the art - you did not find an NDB at each and every waypoint!

The German cross-beam system was very elegant (when it wasn't meddled with by the British, making them bomb farmland), but not by far comparable. BTW, at least at times they had three beams. One for course, one to alert of upcoming drop, one for release.

Cheers,
Fred

No sig as of now, as people apparently can't handle reality without creating too much trouble for the poor mods.