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AngryIce
08-11-2008, 12:55 PM
Hey guys. Long-time IL2 fan, but I've been out of it so long that most of my second nature skills have left me, not to mention most of the changes since I last played (Pre PF release days.) As such I'm jumping back on publics and, not surprisingly, getting a few skydiving lessons.

I've been flying with a squadron and jumping on their public teamspeak lately, but I'd like to get the dirty from the folks here:

I've gotten better at deflection shooting, at gauging the distances in front of the plane that I should shoot given a general distance and a given speed, at maintaining speed and altitude, etc, but I have problems with the little tricks, like closing down the radiator on the 109 so as to gain more speed, prop management, etc.

Aside from not communicating, slamming E-planes into turns, and generally firing from way too far away (all extreme beginners problems I've gotten far past,) what do you guys think are the biggest problems most people have in coming out on top of a dogfight?

EDIT: I have read the stickied threads and stuff, I'm more going from a "I'm low and engaged, got one diving, I'll do X and get him next"

AngryIce
08-11-2008, 12:55 PM
Hey guys. Long-time IL2 fan, but I've been out of it so long that most of my second nature skills have left me, not to mention most of the changes since I last played (Pre PF release days.) As such I'm jumping back on publics and, not surprisingly, getting a few skydiving lessons.

I've been flying with a squadron and jumping on their public teamspeak lately, but I'd like to get the dirty from the folks here:

I've gotten better at deflection shooting, at gauging the distances in front of the plane that I should shoot given a general distance and a given speed, at maintaining speed and altitude, etc, but I have problems with the little tricks, like closing down the radiator on the 109 so as to gain more speed, prop management, etc.

Aside from not communicating, slamming E-planes into turns, and generally firing from way too far away (all extreme beginners problems I've gotten far past,) what do you guys think are the biggest problems most people have in coming out on top of a dogfight?

EDIT: I have read the stickied threads and stuff, I'm more going from a "I'm low and engaged, got one diving, I'll do X and get him next"

JtD
08-11-2008, 01:30 PM
I think the most frequent mistake inexperienced players make is that they don't watch their surroundings good enough and that even if they do, they draw the wrong conclusions. I'm pretty good at deciding when to fight, when to run. And I know that the guy in front of me might get help any second. But inexperienced players will not only forget to check their six, they'll also try to kill the guy in front even if they know that they have a guy on their six themselves. And in a dogfight, they won't notice when they are past their chance to win, and when they are past their chance to leave.
I know rather inexperienced players that can beat a good one in a 1 vs 1 dogfight, but in a many vs. many situation, they'll lose, getting shot down 10 times for every kill they make.

Stingray333
08-11-2008, 01:39 PM
Yo, I'll take a stab at pointing out a few mistakes I am aware of doing myself. I am definitely not an online "ace", but one of those unlucky folks who help to bolster the scores of the other side.

Target fixation: Its not the target flying in your cross hairs that is the danger, it's the one on your high 6 that you didn't see that will send you for a dirt nap. Whenever you are about to pull the trigger get in the habit of scanning your six. I have only started doing this, but it has saved my bacon many times now.

Using your aircrafts advantage and avoid situations where your machine doesn't have the upper hand: Such as getting sucked into a turning dogfight with your FW-190 down low against a spit? You should have avoided that situation from the start. Spits already low over your airfield? Spawn at a base further away and come in at them with altitude and energy.

Not being afraid to backoff and regroup: So you got a high 6 pounce on a spitfire in your FW-190, but you came down a little fast and couldn't get a shot off. Rather than breaking hard to try to turn your guns on him, do a power climb straight up, maintain your energy and go for another pass rather than getting suckered into fighting his fight by your mistakes.

Tactical retreat: Know when you are at a disadvantage from the start of the fight and do not be afraid to put your nose to the ground and full throttle to get out of there when things aren't going your way rather than getting sucked into a fight you didn't want.

And some misc things:

- remember to take off your combat flaps in a dive! (Uh-oh, flaps jammed again)

- if you can use machine guns to help target by watching the tracers, and save the canons for when your shot is setup well and you are closer

- really pay attention to your gun convergence settings for when you have wing mounted weapons. Sure you read on the forums that using 300m (I am just making up a number here) is the best: Pay attention to your flying style and find out how far away YOU are when you shoot typically, do not base this on someone else. Set your convergence based on what you see yourself doing, don't pick up some number someone else says and use it like the holy grail.

- Make sure you are in the suitable joystick profile mode (mainly for you X-52 pilots like myself, about to pull the trigger but are in your landing profile so you activate your wheel brake instead of getting the kill.. I have done this too many times to count)

Anyhoo, I'll stop there, I think this has the potential to be an informative thread!

Stingray

AngryIce
08-11-2008, 01:56 PM
I have the x45's older brother, and I definitely would like to add my shiny two new cents. I've definitely enjoyed the benefit of screwing with the joystick inputs, something I had never done in the past. I still need to fiddle with the rudder sensitivity, but on the whole, I'd say that that's the first thing anyone should do when the game loads up (aside from turning off that damned music.)

I_KG100_Prien
08-11-2008, 02:04 PM
The largest mistake that I make is being overly aggressive and over committing. Leads to a little shame every now and again when I get a good high speed bounce- Say "Little closer" only to not have time to avoid a collision.

Or, giving my opponent the opportunity to cut throttle and get behind me, after I've allowed them to suck me down into a ground level fight. Really made me feel like boob when a FW-190 that I had shot some holes in pulled it on me.. Had I broken off and re evaluated the situation it wouldn't have ended poorly for me http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_redface.gif .

Moral of my story is, aggressive is good but don't let it over ride good sense and S.A.

crucislancer
08-11-2008, 02:35 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by I_KG100_Prien:
The largest mistake that I make is being overly aggressive and over committing. Leads to a little shame every now and again when I get a good high speed bounce- Say "Little closer" only to not have time to avoid a collision.

Or, giving my opponent the opportunity to cut throttle and get behind me, after I've allowed them to suck me down into a ground level fight. Really made me feel like boob when a FW-190 that I had shot some holes in pulled it on me.. Had I broken off and re evaluated the situation it wouldn't have ended poorly for me http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_redface.gif .

Moral of my story is, aggressive is good but don't let it over ride good sense and S.A. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's what gets me into trouble, too. I get way too agressive, and the next thing I know I have 4 guys on my 6 and no cover. I'm working on it, though.

mortoma
08-11-2008, 04:12 PM
The biggest mistake I have seen online is when you're on someone's six and then they pull up into a nice zoom climb and get slow or almost come to a complete stop before they fall into a stall. They might as well paint "shoot me" all over their plane!! Meat on the table with some nice potatoes and veggies on the side!! Wish they'd throw in a brew with that though. I guess I can furnish that?

Second biggest mistake is when they simply have their head stuck up their A-hole and lose SA. For this reason I find humans online to be overall as easy as AI to pick off. Notice I said "overall", in many cases they are much more challenging if they are not noobs. The AI always know where you are even when they shouldn't. Not people though.

stugumby
08-11-2008, 04:25 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif
1. An "always attack" mentality will get you killed 50% of the time.
2. situational awareness: hard enough to watch your 6 while lining up for the kill just to cut in fromt of their number 3 and give him a deflection shot, in other words dont go after the leader and leave one behind you.
3. tracer hypnosis: leads to tree in teeth while ground strafing, shoot and scoot and never strafe the same target twice from same direction.
4. beware of the need for speed and how much you loose in tight turns trying to outmanuever soemone you should be trying to out run.
5. think your way thru post target effects: what direction to pull off from if you flub the stike, do i zig or climb away, or run for home.


just my thoughts since im one of those who gets whacked 50% and gets lots of hits but the rare kill, thinking back i'm getting most of my kills catching a boom and zoomer in mid zoom, usually at the top of the zoom when they are levelling out. But I do ok intercepting bombers, especially once i learned not to attack from behind but from head on.

Chris0382
08-11-2008, 04:38 PM
Not gathering potential energy and understanding its importance.

VW-IceFire
08-11-2008, 05:29 PM
You have to stay high and keep aware of whats going on. Lots of people go charging in without thinking about what they are opening themselves up to.

Have patience. When it looks like a good time to attack...WAIT. If I'm really flying to stay alive and win then I wait a good long time if I have to so that I can find the best target or the best way to attack the target. With ground attacks its easier but often the direction you come in and the arrangement of the enemy target plus flak defenses means that there is a good angle to attack from and a few bad ones too.

Finally...biggest mistake. Thinking that once you're on the enemies six that you have to stay there until you kill him. You don't. Make a shot and if its not working out ...then get out of there. You don't have to try and be glued back there. Don't be afraid to reposition for the best shot with the most amount of potential energy.

I_KG100_Prien
08-11-2008, 05:49 PM
Sometimes the "desire for action" gets me too, and I sacrifice my advantages to get into the fray. This is usually against better judgment.

Basically, the little "Angel on one shoulder Devil on the other". Listen to the devil and the devil takes his toll.

This usually happens when I'm perched up high buzzing around looking for a bounce, and I've been in the air for 45 minutes watching the battles below.

When in Rome, do as the Romans I say- Then I get stabbed by a little guy wielding a steak knife...

What IceFire describes, in my case is always a result of the over-aggression that I mentioned before.. Tunnel vision for the kill and wanting to get it at all costs.

When it goes south my wife asks me "what was that all about"..

I reply "Me being stoooooopid!".

WTE_Galway
08-11-2008, 05:50 PM
on a full switch server ... never fly straight and level on a constant heading ... ever

Pigeon_
08-12-2008, 04:44 AM
Everything you need to know about Complex Engine Management (CEM):
http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/cemguide/intro.htm (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/%7Echapman/il2guide/cemguide/intro.htm)

Use the menu on the right to navigate through the CEM section. It will answer all your questions about prop pitch, radiator settings and such. Reading this certainly helped me keep my engine cool and get power when I need it most.

noobisoft
08-12-2008, 10:17 AM
Beginner mistake: forgetting that the pine trees modeled in the simulation are nearly invisible when viewed from the side at ground level when trying to pull up from a strafing run!!

AngryIce
08-12-2008, 10:23 AM
Yeah, another thing I notice is that when I'm diving for a ZnB attack I always seem to miss the guy too far behind his tail, even clawing back on my stick. Am I not leading him enough with the nose of my plane, let alone my guns?

TheCrux
08-12-2008, 03:05 PM
- Shooting too early ( air target too far away ) either out ignorance or desperation. Spray and pray. Wasteful.

- Dying by attacking an AA gun by flying at a bee-line toward it.

- Dying by attacking ships from a 45 degree angle from the surface ( perfect AA kill zone )

- Having no pre-planned egress from the attack area ( ground or ships ). Attacks made in a desultory manner.

- They're suckers to try head on attacks: and usually die in head-on collisions.

- Try too much to fly center gunsight pipper on target and following every move as though they were piloting some magic carpet with a million horsepower and the ability to instantly change direction, instead of an airplane with thrust/lift/drag/gravity limits. VERY predictable.

K_Freddie
08-12-2008, 03:55 PM
I do a lot of my shooting, ground or air, by not focusing on the target, but by 'seeing a vague object in my gunsight area' while focusing more on the surroundings.

This sounds a bit funny, but it gives me a more intuative feel of what the target is doing without losing sight of my 'SA'.
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

R_Target
08-12-2008, 06:16 PM
Check six before pulling trigger.