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general_kalle
10-26-2008, 07:05 AM
what plane is best against killing zero's?

and i dont mean Earliest zero against some jet.

contemporary planes.
They're really giving me a hard time and the only plane that i might have some succes against the zero's in is, oddly enough, the F4F Wildcat.

VW-IceFire
10-26-2008, 07:25 AM
Depends on the year....the Wildcat and P-40 are the competitors against the Zero in the early years and the Hellcat, Corsair, Lightning, and Mustang are all competitors later on. That was the thing with the Zero as it received modest upgrades while the Americans brought out entirely new designs that were far superior.

The Hellcat I find is an excellent and near even match against the A6M5...except that its better in every attribute except low speed turning.

The Corsair, Lightning, and Mustang are all substantially better except in turn rate.

TinyTim
10-26-2008, 07:33 AM
For me, versus zeros P-38 works best, expecially due to its climbrate - which generally US fighters don't excel in. Zeros should relly be an easy prey for any mid-late war US fighters.

JtD
10-26-2008, 09:04 AM
I can't think of any plane which is not a good Zero killer...but the best

A6M2: I'd go for F4F-3. It's better than the contemporary alternatives because it is more rugged, fastest in a dive and carries a load of ammo.
A6M3: P-40E, as it can actually outfight the A6M at around 3-4kmn altitude. The P-39 is also a very good option, it is faster than the P-40. But I just can't warm up to it. The F4F is too slow to fight the A6M3.
A6M5: For me it is a draw between the F6F and the early P-47; while I like the P-47 for the extra speed the F6F is a better dogfighter and still fast enough. The P-38 is also good, but against Japanese planes the high speed maneuverability is too poor for my taste.
A6M5late, A6M7: When the later P-47 appears (D-27, D-27late), I'd go with the Jug. It can actually outclimb the A6M, outrun and outdive it. I usually feel bad shooting down A6Ms with the P-47D, because it is too easy.

LEBillfish
10-26-2008, 09:42 AM
As a virtual "Zero Pilot" often I can tell you flat out that "NONE" of the aircraft are good zero killers. Not one, I've taken many, many, many of each down and quite a few that won't be listed.

No aircraft here flown poorly will kill a Zero.........Yet virtually all if flown conservatively, pure zoom & boom, and most of all in teams will take out Zero's easily.

In the case of the Zero, it's not the aircraft.....It's the tactic.

K2

KaleunFreddie
10-26-2008, 11:02 AM
Another Zero, of course. This was a trick question.

If both Zero pilot, and that other 'piece of metal' pilot were good, neither would be able to shoot each other down = draw
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Edt: Now who's gone and changed my profile.. my piccy's not displaying.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

LovroSL
10-26-2008, 11:06 AM
Anything stable with 650kph+ breakup speed flown strictly BnZ can bust a zeke. But you have to be patient and accurate.
But if you lack the discipline zeke is a dangerous little bugger to mess with, and couple that with its good acceleration it means that if you loose speed you cant outrun him (because you are most likely in a BnZ bird) or out-turn him and if you dont have at least 2000m of altitude you are screwed.
With zekes I love crusing at 2000m and catching slow US birds on top of their turn curve going for another pass and BnZ my fellows at the deck.

Bearcat99
10-26-2008, 11:55 AM
I find that La 5s are decent against the Zero.. in fact the matchup is a lot of fun.

No41Sqn_Banks
10-26-2008, 12:27 PM
Originally posted by LEBillfish:
In the case of the Zero, it's not the aircraft.....It's the tactic.


+1

A good pilot is the best Zero killer.

Jaws2002
10-26-2008, 12:31 PM
In a historical server there's nothing more dangerous for the Zero then a bunch of fast, fire breathing P-38's. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif

Badsight-
10-26-2008, 04:05 PM
Originally posted by LEBillfish:
In the case of the Zero, it's not the aircraft.....It's the tactic. without an initial advantage

or . . . . without running for long periods of time away from the bandit to gain an advantage . . . . . none of the contemporary AC can be used to shoot down Zeros "easily"

the only thing against the Zero is how fragile it is

its easier to fly & more dominant in a DF than any of its PTO rivals in IL2

to kill Zeros you have to rely on dive & running & BnZ

VW-IceFire
10-26-2008, 04:15 PM
MMmm interesting perspective. The Zero is quite the effective fighter and in the hands of both a newbie and an experienced pilot its very effective and forgiving. Most online scenarios I always include the Zero because not everyone is going to be good with the Ki-61, J2M, or Ki-84. The Zero does definitely force the opponent to fly in a particular manner.

Stafroty
10-26-2008, 04:27 PM
something fast with good roll rate and ability to turn in high speed.

VMF-214_HaVoK
10-26-2008, 05:11 PM
Hellcat!

Freiwillige
10-27-2008, 05:05 AM
Anybody ever see that 80's movie the final countdown? F-14 Tomcat's splashing zero's left and right....too bad no F-14's in the sim.

Spitfires and seafires do well and are a historical matchup

FunGus1968
11-12-2008, 12:13 PM
Go to the Warbirds Of Prey website. They keep stats on all matchups between planes. That will give you some idea.

I agree with the earlier post... it's all about the tactics.

TinyTim
11-12-2008, 12:35 PM
Originally posted by LEBillfish:
In the case of the Zero, it's not the aircraft.....It's the tactic.


I'll remind you about that next time we meet online, me in an A6M2 and you in a Hurricane! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

DuxCorvan
11-12-2008, 12:50 PM
Originally posted by Freiwillige:
Anybody ever see that 80's movie the final countdown? F-14 Tomcat's splashing zero's left and right....too bad no F-14's in the sim.


I always thought that scene was quite silly... F-14s dogfighting with Zeros... that close, it would have been so hard for the Tomcats as it was for the Zeros to shoot down anything. The Zeros are too slow and nimble to shoot them down with cannon easily in a close dogfight, and 1980s missiles really would have had issues trying to lock a nearby target so small and relatively cold.

But I guess a realistic long distance tracking and shooting was not exciting for Hollywood. In Top Gun I was always thinking "what are the long range six-target tracking radar and Phoenix missiles for? Why gamble the whole thing in an unnecessary close dogfight where the nimble fighters have all the advantages and the Tomcat superior features are nullified?"

mortoma
11-12-2008, 01:43 PM
The Corsair and Hellcat are too wobbly IMO. The P-38, once you learn it well is really bad news for the Zekes. And in a pinch you can run away since it's way, way faster top speed wise. You can maximize it's acceleration by reducing prop pitch momentarily. You can get up to 500Kph much faster this way than you can if you just stay at 100% PP. But once you do get up to speed, go back to 100% PP, even at high altitude.

And that 20mm cannon will hurt a Zeke a lot faster than .50s alone will so use both at once. I can shoot down Zekes much easier in a P-38 than I can in Corsair of Hellcat. And for some reason, I can score easier in a Wildcat than I can in a Hellcat. Maybe because it's not as wobbly?

mortoma
11-12-2008, 01:52 PM
In Top Gun I was always thinking "what are the long range six-target tracking radar and Phoenix missiles for? Why gamble the whole thing in an unnecessary close dogfight where the nimble fighters have all the advantages and the Tomcat superior features are nullified? The purpose for Top Gun school is to teach close in tactics, in case close in tactics are needed. If there are 20 bandits closing in on a flight of four Tomcats, there's a good chance they would not be able to get them all at long distance. So then a close dogfight would likely ensue in most cases. Hence the need for learning close in dogfighting. US pilots are taught both long range and close in fighting for a good reason.

Xiolablu3
11-12-2008, 02:52 PM
SPiti V is pretty much on a par and its a great fight. The 1942/43 AM63 Zero is a little better in manouvre and top speed than the MkVc but it falls apart very quickly when hit by the SPits firepower. The Spit can handle more hits thanks to its armour plate and sealed fuel tanks.

Its a very even battle in 1942 bewtween the mkV and the Am62 or AM63 . Possibly edge to the Zero in the AM63, but its such a close battle for the pilot to make all the difference.

SPitfire VIII or IX in 1943/44 regains the advantage over the Zero in everything but turning, I think. If you are flying in 1943/44 then the Spitfire VIII or IX is a good choice for Zero killer, but dont do too much sustained turning, use high speed manouvres and rolling, as the SPit is far better at high speed manouvres than the Zero.

The Hellcat is a great Zero killer, and you can afford to turn a bit as long as you are at high speeds. Agisn dont do sustained turning and let your speed drop otherwise he will quickly be around on your tail. Always keep your 'insurance policy', by staying above 2000m and if he is getting the advnatage then dive away towards your own lines. Hellcat dives better and has enough speed to get at least to incoming freidnly forces if he is daft enough to try and chase you down low and away from his lines.

FIghting Zeros is a little like playing Chess rather than instinctive,'seat of your pants' dogfighting.

He will obviously try and draw you into a close-in dogfight where his plane is superior.

Bremspropeller
11-12-2008, 03:33 PM
P-38 (we %/$&žž%& need an early one http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif DO WANT ) and F4U, hands down. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/metal.gif

DuxCorvan
11-12-2008, 04:10 PM
Originally posted by mortoma:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">In Top Gun I was always thinking "what are the long range six-target tracking radar and Phoenix missiles for? Why gamble the whole thing in an unnecessary close dogfight where the nimble fighters have all the advantages and the Tomcat superior features are nullified? The purpose for Top Gun school is to teach close in tactics, in case close in tactics are needed. If there are 20 bandits closing in on a flight of four Tomcats, there's a good chance they would not be able to get them all at long distance. So then a close dogfight would likely ensue in most cases. Hence the need for learning close in dogfighting. US pilots are taught both long range and close in fighting for a good reason. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I know. I was referring to the last scenes where the action is supposed to be real combat against commie "MiG-32"(!)- you know, those 'agressor' F-5Es. They are out of the Top Gun school, they're fighting the real baddies, and nobody alerts them before the foes are on (┬┐What are the Hawkeyes for?), and then dogfight them...

Divine-Wind
11-12-2008, 04:54 PM
Apparently watching Tom Cruise push the red button several times wouldn't have been exciting enough.

lezbianseagull
11-12-2008, 06:23 PM
I fly a zero a ton, because it's a fun plane to fly....

Unfortunatley it has probably the worst kill to death ratio in the game. With a .65 kill ratio
according to the server that I play on. With the Spit and Fw190 both having over twice the success rate

The Spitfire 25 lb is a Zero killer extrodinare.

Skoshi Tiger
11-12-2008, 07:39 PM
Originally posted by DuxCorvan:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mortoma:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">In Top Gun I was always thinking "what are the long range six-target tracking radar and Phoenix missiles for? Why gamble the whole thing in an unnecessary close dogfight where the nimble fighters have all the advantages and the Tomcat superior features are nullified? The purpose for Top Gun school is to teach close in tactics, in case close in tactics are needed. If there are 20 bandits closing in on a flight of four Tomcats, there's a good chance they would not be able to get them all at long distance. So then a close dogfight would likely ensue in most cases. Hence the need for learning close in dogfighting. US pilots are taught both long range and close in fighting for a good reason. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I know. I was referring to the last scenes where the action is supposed to be real combat against commie "MiG-32"(!)- you know, those 'agressor' F-5Es. They are out of the Top Gun school, they're fighting the real baddies, and nobody alerts them before the foes are on (┬┐What are the Hawkeyes for?), and then dogfight them... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Doesn't it also come down to rules of enguagement?

There's not much use having a missile that can get a target at 70 odd miles when you need to visually identify the target?

DuxCorvan
11-13-2008, 02:40 AM
Originally posted by Skoshi Tiger:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DuxCorvan:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mortoma:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">In Top Gun I was always thinking "what are the long range six-target tracking radar and Phoenix missiles for? Why gamble the whole thing in an unnecessary close dogfight where the nimble fighters have all the advantages and the Tomcat superior features are nullified? The purpose for Top Gun school is to teach close in tactics, in case close in tactics are needed. If there are 20 bandits closing in on a flight of four Tomcats, there's a good chance they would not be able to get them all at long distance. So then a close dogfight would likely ensue in most cases. Hence the need for learning close in dogfighting. US pilots are taught both long range and close in fighting for a good reason. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I know. I was referring to the last scenes where the action is supposed to be real combat against commie "MiG-32"(!)- you know, those 'agressor' F-5Es. They are out of the Top Gun school, they're fighting the real baddies, and nobody alerts them before the foes are on (┬┐What are the Hawkeyes for?), and then dogfight them... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Doesn't it also come down to rules of enguagement?

There's not much use having a missile that can get a target at 70 odd miles when you need to visually identify the target? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You don't wait that much when you're in hostile area, several bogeys have broken your safety airspace and your entire fleet is in jeopardy.

"Fleet defender" means to take down the threat before they can launch their ordnance.

We need Huggy here.

gamer025
11-15-2008, 02:08 AM
Experience.

gamer025
11-15-2008, 02:12 AM
Originally posted by Skoshi Tiger:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DuxCorvan:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mortoma:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">In Top Gun I was always thinking "what are the long range six-target tracking radar and Phoenix missiles for? Why gamble the whole thing in an unnecessary close dogfight where the nimble fighters have all the advantages and the Tomcat superior features are nullified? The purpose for Top Gun school is to teach close in tactics, in case close in tactics are needed. If there are 20 bandits closing in on a flight of four Tomcats, there's a good chance they would not be able to get them all at long distance. So then a close dogfight would likely ensue in most cases. Hence the need for learning close in dogfighting. US pilots are taught both long range and close in fighting for a good reason. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I know. I was referring to the last scenes where the action is supposed to be real combat against commie "MiG-32"(!)- you know, those 'agressor' F-5Es. They are out of the Top Gun school, they're fighting the real baddies, and nobody alerts them before the foes are on (┬┐What are the Hawkeyes for?), and then dogfight them... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Doesn't it also come down to rules of enguagement?

There's not much use having a missile that can get a target at 70 odd miles when you need to visually identify the target? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

They were "MiG-28s" http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

JtD
11-15-2008, 02:31 AM
Originally posted by mortoma:
The purpose for Top Gun school is to teach close in tactics, in case close in tactics are needed. If there are 20 bandits closing in on a flight of four Tomcats, there's a good chance they would not be able to get them all at long distance...

But there is a good chance that 20 bandits get the four Tomcats at long distance, so no point for close in dogfights. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Sillius_Sodus
11-15-2008, 03:03 PM
Originally posted by JtD:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mortoma:
The purpose for Top Gun school is to teach close in tactics, in case close in tactics are needed. If there are 20 bandits closing in on a flight of four Tomcats, there's a good chance they would not be able to get them all at long distance...

But there is a good chance that 20 bandits get the four Tomcats at long distance, so no point for close in dogfights. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes but the skipper said that if we screw up one more time we'll be flying a cargo plane full of rubber doggie doodoo out of Hong Kong! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif