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View Full Version : Just had a 2 kill sortie with the P51D.



ElAurens
07-06-2008, 05:41 PM
Was flying on Zekes, on Okinawa. Most were in Corsairs, so I thought I'd try the 51 and use the tactics I hear so much about here. I climbed out to 20,000ft. and went looking for trouble.

I was using the gyro gunsight.

First I saw an enemy bird shooting at someone near the deck, so I put the nose down, throttled back a bit and went for it. A Ki84 (I think) was after a Corsair. I was indicating just over 500mph, I had the pipper on him and gave a little squirt as I passed. I pulled up gently to recover alt. The Corsair driver said thanks, I never saw the IJA craft again so I figure he just ran away. I zoomed back to about 18.000 and saw another Ki84 out over the water. So I again put the nose down. I made my attack indicating 450mph. Gave the Hayate a short burst as I passed and saw smoke trailing from his engine. He was out of the fight so I disengaged and climbed out, headed for home.

About a minute later I saw in chat that "so and so" (sorry I'm terrible with names) crashed, and I got a kill message! Almost simultaneously another plane "landed" and I got another kill message.

Frankly I'm still kind of shocked. I've gotten kills with the Pony before, but never multiples and never were they so satisfying. I didn't press the attacks any more than necessary to just take them out of the fight.

Me thinks there may be more Mustang flying for EL.

Jaws2002
07-06-2008, 05:44 PM
Good show. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/partyhat.gif

Usually is this way for me too with the fifties.
I hit few planes in high speed pass and few minutes later I get a kill or two.

Every time I go back to finish a plane I end up fish food. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

steiner562
07-06-2008, 05:56 PM
It is a richly satisfying addiction getting kills with the 50s.

ElAurens
07-06-2008, 06:03 PM
I know what you mean Jaws. It was really hard to just fly away and not go for the coup de gras.

I know it would be harder against Luftwaffe aircraft, but still, I can see the allure of the Mustang now.

Took me long enough.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Wildnoob
07-06-2008, 06:06 PM
congratulations ElAurens. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif

the P-51 is a great aircraft, the only problem is that most pilot's don't know how to use it corretly.

you manage to use the gyro gunsigth ?

oh boy, I can't hit anything with it, and it should the opostive.

TgD Thunderbolt56
07-07-2008, 11:10 AM
I do stuff like that frequently. But I usually get them taken away by some bottom-feeding Spit drivers trying to drive their stats. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

JtD
07-07-2008, 11:41 AM
In the PTO, the P-51 is a great ac. I honestly don't understand why people pick the F4-U when the P-51 is available?

Keep it up, when you start feeling sorry for the Ki-84 pilots you are about using the full potential of the P-51. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Treetop64
07-08-2008, 12:46 AM
Originally posted by ElAurens:
I didn't press the attacks any more than necessary to just take them out of the fight.

You hit the nail straight on the head with that, my friend. That is pretty much the point to all the goobley-glop over the years regarding the flying tactics in the P-51 and the .50's hitting power.

Feathered_IV
07-08-2008, 04:59 AM
I love the P-51 online. I've got a great track from one of my early outings on Spits vs 109's somewhere. Climbed hard to 25k and flew lazy figure of eights over the luftie transit area. Every time I spotted some chump climbing towards the front lines I'd zoom down and give him a long squirt from dead six. Then zoom way back up and keep going for more alt while they chased their tails trying to figure out what hit them. There was no need to chase them down into the ground like a common DF clown. Eventually they'd straighten out and either wobble off home or resume course, letting you hit them again. I think I got two or three over a half hour hunt, before a 109 appeared nearby and I dived away and left him eating dust. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

For all it's supposed vices, I count the 51D as one of the most potent aircraft in the sim. It's good fun for 51's and jugs if you get some unwelcome company, to drag them to 30k+ where they are hopelessly outclassed and then turn the tables on them. They hate that. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif

BAG.LordDante
07-08-2008, 04:59 AM
don´t feel too happy !
if the other pilot had seen u on time, u would have had the hell of a hard time shooting him down

those 4 20mm´s are realy bad, its like flying a 190 that can turn on a plate. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/metal.gif

i realy love that bird

ElAurens
07-08-2008, 05:48 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

I probably have more hours in the Ki84 than you do in the game in total.

It's nothing special, and with my speed advantage there is no way any Hayate could have caught me.

Wildnoob
07-08-2008, 08:14 AM
Originally posted by ElAurens:
and with my speed advantage there is no way any Hayate could have caught me.

oh, it depends on my view.

if you dive from a much higher altitude and then run away, it's quiet possible.

but if the Hayate pilot spot you from a lower altitude advantage on low and medium altitude or in the same altitude as you and you, it's very provable that he gonna quickly get you with firing distance. the KI-84 is a very dangeors aircraft for allied pilot's. the best tactical option to figth him is take him on high altitude. on this case, he lack a good supercharger and you should have the edge in speed. but to low to medium altitude, just diving on him from a significant altitude and run away.

BAG.LordDante
07-08-2008, 09:49 AM
Originally posted by ElAurens:
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

I probably have more hours in the Ki84 than you do in the game in total.

It's nothing special, and with my speed advantage there is no way any Hayate could have caught me.

Chill .......
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif
i just wanted to say that shooting down somebody who´s unaware off you sneaking up to his six is nothing fancy.
its effective , but nothing special .
i get shot down like that everyday http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif
AAAAND if u r such a Hayate Ace ( TM )like u say u are, then u should know that. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

By the way: i get shot down since june 2003 so i know what im talking about.

ElAurens
07-08-2008, 10:53 AM
No problem sir.

I would never think of turning with a Ki-84 unless I was in a Spitfire.

The high alt bounce is something I've been trying to learn to do well for some time. It's an interesting way to fight, and more importantly it's a good way to stay alive.

I don't understand why the Corsair jocks don't fly this way. I watched them all down there twisting an turning and working very hard only to prolong the inevitable.

M_Gunz
07-08-2008, 11:12 AM
Would you say that:

* you might be getting realistic/historic results?

* you might be using realistic/historic methods?

LEXX_Luthor
07-08-2008, 01:02 PM
ElAurens::
I don't understand why the Corsair jocks don't fly this way. I watched them all down there twisting an turning and working very hard only to prolong the inevitable.
The one (1) thing the sim models well is historical "instinct" combat flying behavior. Pappy Boyington's first manuever in combat with the Japanese -- Ki-27 I think -- was to turn in violation of Chennault's orders. Boyington's cute neck muscle trick didn't help him here, and he was lucky he was flying a plane that allowed a dive to safety once he figured out that's what he had to do. Most combat pilots would not have Boyington's pure *luck* of having a commander pound into him/her proper tactics. Boyington was told again and again what he had to do, but he still had to see it for himself -- just once. Maybe that's how pilots learned. The ones that survived the learning process are the ones who used proper tactics next time. In online play, a player's life is not at stake, so there won't be alot of learnin' going on.

ElAurens
07-08-2008, 03:30 PM
Originally posted by M_Gunz:
Would you say that:

* you might be getting realistic/historic results?

* you might be using realistic/historic methods?

Not sure about the results, but I know the tactic is historic, at least for later in the war for most USAAC pilots. The AVG was ahead of the curve on this one.

M_Gunz
07-08-2008, 03:33 PM
Just thinking about how many times I've read that IL2 doesn't give historic or real results....

it's nice to see different.

julian265
07-08-2008, 06:51 PM
Despite any failings IL2 has, by flying with a bunch of people on voice comms (453), IL2 has helped me understand a lot of manoeuvres and team tactics which I had previously only read about. There have been a number of times where I've come up with a team tactic whilst online, only to realise later that it already had a name!

triad773
07-08-2008, 09:10 PM
Cool ElAurens- like the AVG developed the technique- dive, fire and fly away. Not try to mix it with the Zero. Chennault had something there.

Love it when this sim echos what I'd read about.

Congrats http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Triad

idonno
07-08-2008, 10:59 PM
Originally posted by JtD:
I honestly don't understand why people pick the F4-U when the P-51 is available?


Cause it's the F4U that's why! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Best Fighter Bomber? (http://home.att.net/%7Ehistoryzone/F4U-4.html) I know, it's talking about the F4U-4, but still...



Originally posted by ElAurens:
I don't understand why the Corsair jocks don't fly this way. I watched them all down there twisting an turning and working very hard only to prolong the inevitable.

I did a little stat survey for the top K/D ratios on Zeke's vs. Wildcats recently. The Zeke drivers had better ratios then the U.S. aircraft guys. I was not surprised. When you fly the U.S. planes the way they were meant to be flown (and I do not mean one shot then completely leave the fight) they rule the sky. Of course with something like the Uber-4, you have to get them to come up high, or beat them with numbers, but that's what RL pilots would have done.

It's a real shame that people misuse the American aircraft the way they do. If RL pilots flew them the way the average person on the DF servers do, we would have lost the war.



Originally posted by ElAurens:
I probably have more hours in the Ki84 than you do in the game in total.


Well that explains why it took you so long to appreciate the 51. You're a Free-Kill-Mobile Uber-4 driver! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

And I say that because I've flown the Uber-4. It was like "here, have a kill"... "and another"... "you want another?"... "O.K. here you go"... "oh look, somebody's try to get a shot at you. isn't that cute" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif There's no challenge there.

I love it when the Uber-4's come up to my altitude. Not so Uber now, are ya?! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

JtD
07-09-2008, 12:40 AM
I prefer the P-47D for fighterbombing. It is faster and has a higher dive limit, which dramatically increases ones chances of survival. Admittedly it carries only half the bombs, but I'd rather stay alive.

My list in late war PTO for air superiority is:

1. P-47D
2. P-51D
(X. J2M5)
3. P-47D27
A. Ki-84
4. P-38Llate
5. F4U-1C
6. P-38J
B. J2M3
7. F4U-1D
8. F6F
C. N1K2
9. FM-2
10. P-38L
D. Ki-100
E. A6M

TobrukRat
07-09-2008, 09:09 AM
Infact WW1 RFC Fighter pilot Oliver Stewart says the objective is "to sneak in unobserved close behind your opponent and then shoot him in the back.One either shot down or was shot down himself".As he remebered it the war in the sky had to be callous and cold blooded.He goes on to say "the open sky became a space as good as a darkened alley off a sleazy street".

Kernow
07-09-2008, 04:08 PM
I like to fly the P-47 the way you describe, El. The extra 2 fifties are nice, as is not having to worry about speed in the dive http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif There is a risk the pond life will take some of your kills, but on the whole I find most 'kills' come along after a minute or 2. And mostly they are kills, ie the enemy either crashes or bails not merely lands. It may not always look like the fifties do damage, but they do. And if one or 2 enemy do sometimes manage to successfully nurse their damaged planes home, well, good luck to them. It really isn't worth blowing all your E chasing them down and ending up on the deck, right next to the enemy base.

PanzerAce
07-09-2008, 04:21 PM
I've actually finally figured out how to fly the P-51. Get really high, zoom, shoot up a guy, climb again, MAYBE go after that guy again, or just rinse and repeat. If you are being followed, just don't turn and keep climbing, eventually the other guy will give up.



I think the real issue with the P-51 in game is that in furball survers, if you DON'T blow a persons wing off or something, someone will steal your kill. However, if nobody steals your kill, basically every plane you shoot will be a kill eventually for you.

thefruitbat
07-09-2008, 04:26 PM
Originally posted by JtD:
I prefer the P-47D for fighterbombing. It is faster and has a higher dive limit, which dramatically increases ones chances of survival. Admittedly it carries only half the bombs, but I'd rather stay alive.

My list in late war PTO for air superiority is:

1. P-47D
2. P-51D
(X. J2M5)
3. P-47D27
A. Ki-84
4. P-38Llate
5. F4U-1C
6. P-38J
B. J2M3
7. F4U-1D
8. F6F
C. N1K2
9. FM-2
10. P-38L
D. Ki-100
E. A6M

This list to me, makes me think of speed, then altitude, and speed again. Best way to contol the sky is top down, being able to disengage a massive bonus. Personaly, if the 51D was at the same boost as our 51CM, i'd go with that over the 47, but thats me.

fruitbat

ElAurens
07-09-2008, 04:30 PM
P51s operating in the Pacific did run some very high manifold pressures.

80+"HG as I recall.

idonno
07-09-2008, 05:18 PM
Originally posted by PanzerAce:
... just don't turn and keep climbing, eventually the other guy will give up.


You don't have to keep going until they give up. You just need to get enough separation to allow you to turn around without losing your speed or having them close on you before you're ready for the merge.