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View Full Version : US Aircraft Flight Characteristics and trim



MLudner
09-25-2005, 09:38 PM
I am not certain if it's the game, or me; but I have entered a cycle in my campaign now where I am in US built fighters every weekend.
I have noted that all US built fighters (or, at least, the P-51's, P-40's and F-4F's all roll to the right in flight, forcing me to hold my stick as though I am in a left roll to keep it straight. This has caused me much trouble in combat by causing me to stall more easily than I used to.
Trim? Trim, you say? Thought of that. Aileron trim - for some reason - will not hold. It causes the aircraft to begin to lift the right wing, but the moment I let go of the left arrow (Aileron Trim - Left, in my set-up) the right wing dips and I begin to invert. Rudder trim does little and causes the aircraft to yaw - and thus, drift - to the left ... which means I go off course ... which is bad.
My mighty X-52 is not out of calibration; there is no such problem in Bf-109's or FW-190D9's, or Spits: just US built aircraft.

This problem has caused me to stall during combat maneuvers and I now have refly - next weekend - a very long mission in the PTO because after converting a Ki-43c into a really neat looking shooting star I was attacked by his two little friends. During evasive maneuvers I have practiced innumerable times perfectly safely my F4F-3 stalled and crashed into the Pacific just off the north coast of Rabaul (Okinawa Map and an imagination...). This was caused by an inadvertant over-turn to the right brought about by this 4.01 flight characteristic that I was fighting all the way since taking-off from the Yorktown over an hour earlier.
Is anyone else having this problem?

MLudner
09-25-2005, 09:38 PM
I am not certain if it's the game, or me; but I have entered a cycle in my campaign now where I am in US built fighters every weekend.
I have noted that all US built fighters (or, at least, the P-51's, P-40's and F-4F's all roll to the right in flight, forcing me to hold my stick as though I am in a left roll to keep it straight. This has caused me much trouble in combat by causing me to stall more easily than I used to.
Trim? Trim, you say? Thought of that. Aileron trim - for some reason - will not hold. It causes the aircraft to begin to lift the right wing, but the moment I let go of the left arrow (Aileron Trim - Left, in my set-up) the right wing dips and I begin to invert. Rudder trim does little and causes the aircraft to yaw - and thus, drift - to the left ... which means I go off course ... which is bad.
My mighty X-52 is not out of calibration; there is no such problem in Bf-109's or FW-190D9's, or Spits: just US built aircraft.

This problem has caused me to stall during combat maneuvers and I now have refly - next weekend - a very long mission in the PTO because after converting a Ki-43c into a really neat looking shooting star I was attacked by his two little friends. During evasive maneuvers I have practiced innumerable times perfectly safely my F4F-3 stalled and crashed into the Pacific just off the north coast of Rabaul (Okinawa Map and an imagination...). This was caused by an inadvertant over-turn to the right brought about by this 4.01 flight characteristic that I was fighting all the way since taking-off from the Yorktown over an hour earlier.
Is anyone else having this problem?

Waldo.Pepper
09-25-2005, 10:14 PM
What happen is instead of holding down the key that you have assigned to trim (which may in effect mean that you have only pressed it once) you instead press it a number of times, into the 10 and 20's of times?

F4U_Flyer
09-25-2005, 10:27 PM
also make sure it is set to trim and not just function. check your key bindings and as said above tap it libarally until you over compensate then a couple clicks back will have you flying level and happy , until they shoot you down anyway! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

WOLFMondo
09-26-2005, 01:25 AM
Remember some planes don't have aileron trim like the 190's, 109 and Spitfire, they only level out and fly straight when you hit cruising speed as there trim is pre defined on the ground. Torque affects all aircraft, not just the US ones. Just the US ones usually have aileron trim which makes them easier to fly.

IL2-chuter
09-26-2005, 03:52 AM
I think the trim is goofy. As a RL pilot I can't think of a single airplane that has no trim position indicator. Where the heck is the trim set at? Who the heck knows? Not me, and I'm PIC! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

Sorry . . . http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif . . . a bit of a tangent.

WOLFMondo
09-26-2005, 04:03 AM
Allot of the planes do have trim indicators but some don't, allot of the US planes do, some are set on the ground with trim tabs like on the German aircraft.

IL2-chuter
09-26-2005, 04:43 AM
Ya, forgot about mustang. I remember a couple of others . . . now that I think about it. But there are a lot more with the trim controls in the cockpit playin dead when you're workin the trim . . . http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

And what about the 190 and 152 trim? They had a moving stab, instead the elevator ratchets up and down like all the other planes (probably game engine limits).

Making doo with what I have and enjoying it (dammit). http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

WOLFMondo
09-26-2005, 05:17 AM
I can't say I've looked. I just look at the artificial horizon to work out how much trim I need.

triggerhappyfin
09-26-2005, 06:46 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by IL2-chuter:
I think the trim is goofy. As a RL pilot I can't think of a single airplane that has no trim position indicator. Where the heck is the trim set at? Who the heck knows? Not me, and I'm PIC! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

Sorry . . . http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif . . . a bit of a tangent. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I´ve got a solution on this....make your self a "trimming device". I´ve done one and are happy to have it. It is basicly a box with pots sticking out from three of it´s sides. These act as elevator-, pitch-, and rudder trim. In addition to this I´ve connected my TH Elite pedals to the box. There are also four switches on the top of it. With those switches I´m able to choose engine, toggle start and choose all engine´s http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif. All connected to the gameport.

Windows recoqnizes the gadget as three axis/four swiches stick with rudder enabled. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif
This leaves me to use the rudder rocker on my saitek x-36 as brakes http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif.

It´s nice and easy to manage trimming of the plane and you got a visual on how much you´ve trimmed an axis.

Perhaps something for the manufacturers of sticks to pick up?

Bearcat99
09-26-2005, 07:29 AM
Use the ball.... all of the American planes have a ball in the pit. If the ball is to the right trim to the left and vice versa. I think for the rudder trim on a slider works best. I have my rudder trim on the throttle of my MSFFB2 stick... I can look at the position of the throttle and get a good idea of where my trim is.. or look at the wheel in the pit, or as I said originally use the ball.

triggerhappyfin
09-26-2005, 07:37 AM
In no cockpit setting there´s that hud with the little circle, is it called the "pipper"?

MLudner
09-26-2005, 10:30 AM
I should have mentioned I do tap. When the repeated tapping has no effect I end up just pushing the button. Like I said, it responds but will not stay trimmed.
Vladimir Rasputin was flying his Lend-Lease P-40C on a recon flight. At first the trim worked fine. I got it trimmed so nicely I barely had to touch the stick. Then, without warning the trim failed and I nearly crashed - I was flying at tree-top height - when the right wing precipitately dipped violently. After that I could not get the aileron trim to function at all.
I do keep the ball centered using rudder trim, that seems to work just fine.
I also remember - now - that after I experienced this during a practice flight in a P-51C where I was unable to trim the wings level how I kept thinking, "I know the Mustang has aileron trim, at least I'm almost certain it used to!" So I flew back to the base and landed. Parked on the runway I let go of the stick and looked at the right aileron as I tapped the left arrow. It moved. However, I noted that the right aileron was up, even though the stick was centered. I looked at the left aileron; it was down. I hit aileron trim - neutral (Up arrow in my set up) and the ailerons remained in a right bank posture. "Oh, HE-double-toothpicks!" I thought, "My stick's out of calibration." But before closing the game and going to my settings to calibrate I decided to test the theory by taking a Bf-109G10 for a spin over the Crimea in QMB. The stick was not out of calibration; the 109 flew perfectly normally. Same the FW-190D9 I next flew, then the Spit IXe as well.

F4U_Flyer: What ever do you mean: "set to trim and not just function"? I assigned the keys in the control settings. They do cause a reaction, but it will not stay in trim.

msalama
09-26-2005, 11:32 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Like I said, it responds but will not stay trimmed. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hmmm... just a wild guess, but are you sure you've mapped the keys to _trim_ controls instead of _steering_ surface controls?

MLudner
09-26-2005, 12:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by msalama:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Like I said, it responds but will not stay trimmed. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hmmm... just a wild guess, but are you sure you've mapped the keys to _trim_ controls instead of _steering_ surface controls? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I set the left arrow for Aileron Trim - Left in the control settings menu. Right arrow for Aileron Trim - Right. Up arrow for Aileron Trim - Neutral. Rotary dials on the throttle for my X52 adjust the Rudder and Elevator trim. There is a spare slider there I once had set for Aileron trim, but it was difficult to fine tune and I kept accidentally nudging it with my thumb while adjusting throttle so I switched back to the arrow buttons.
However, I just had a thought: Possibly the slider is still set to aileron trim as well ... I'll check it during my lunch break today.

MLudner
09-26-2005, 12:09 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by triggerhappyfin:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by IL2-chuter:
I think the trim is goofy. As a RL pilot I can't think of a single airplane that has no trim position indicator. Where the heck is the trim set at? Who the heck knows? Not me, and I'm PIC! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

Sorry . . . http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif . . . a bit of a tangent. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I´ve got a solution on this....make your self a "trimming device". I´ve done one and are happy to have it. It is basicly a box with pots sticking out from three of it´s sides. These act as elevator-, pitch-, and rudder trim. In addition to this I´ve connected my TH Elite pedals to the box. There are also four switches on the top of it. With those switches I´m able to choose engine, toggle start and choose all engine´s http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif. All connected to the gameport.

Windows recoqnizes the gadget as three axis/four swiches stick with rudder enabled. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif
This leaves me to use the rudder rocker on my saitek x-36 as brakes http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif.

It´s nice and easy to manage trimming of the plane and you got a visual on how much you´ve trimmed an axis.

Perhaps something for the manufacturers of sticks to pick up? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Cool. But, I'm not that ambitious about the game ... just trying to figure out how to get the planes to fly straight.

effte
09-26-2005, 02:23 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MLudner:
However, I just had a thought: Possibly the slider is still set to aileron trim as well ... I'll check it during my lunch break today. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I entered this thread again to suggest that you may still have a slider mapped to the trim. The behaviour you describe is consistent with this. It'll move the trim to whatever position the slider is in as soon as any change is detected in the axis concerned.

MLudner
09-26-2005, 04:09 PM
Problem solved: it was me. It was the long forgotten slider on the throttle. I also now know why I did not deactivate it when I switched back to the buttons: Evidently one cannot delete the HOTAS setting without returning everything to default, then resetting all of the controls all over again.
Guess I'll have to live with it.

effte, you were spot on. Thanks everyone.

Nimits
09-26-2005, 05:15 PM
To delete an axis: Assign an axis (1) you plan to use to the axis (2) you want deleted. Then reassign the axis (1) back to its original function.

MLudner
09-28-2005, 01:24 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Nimits:
To delete an axis: Assign an axis (1) you plan to use to the axis (2) you want deleted. Then reassign the axis (1) back to its original function. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The old switcheroo. That's what I did that night. Funny, it's the method I've used to switch buttons around for quite some time now.
Thank you.

effte
09-29-2005, 09:02 AM
Control setup interface have to be like that. Limitation of the engine. Be sure. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif