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View Full Version : Bad News for ATI ... ATI fans, you might not want to read this.



XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 05:52 PM
Half-Life, the game ATI paid off 6 million to has been delayed until April 2004. Their code was stolen and since the game didn't work well with Nvidia cards, Valve has decided to just rewrite it all.

In other news, the FX5700 (NV36) is expected to debut from Nvidia soon. With a $199 price tag and performance that is expected to totally blow away any GF4 card (and any comparable offering from ATI), it appears there will be a new mainstream video card king.

"The Force is strong with this one." -What an ace said of RayBanJockey during a fight when he was still a newbie.
<a href=http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612109283>news update</a>

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 05:52 PM
Half-Life, the game ATI paid off 6 million to has been delayed until April 2004. Their code was stolen and since the game didn't work well with Nvidia cards, Valve has decided to just rewrite it all.

In other news, the FX5700 (NV36) is expected to debut from Nvidia soon. With a $199 price tag and performance that is expected to totally blow away any GF4 card (and any comparable offering from ATI), it appears there will be a new mainstream video card king.

"The Force is strong with this one." -What an ace said of RayBanJockey during a fight when he was still a newbie.
<a href=http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612109283>news update</a>

Buzz_25th
10-07-2003, 05:55 PM
Is every other DX9 game going to rewrite for nvidia too?

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XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 06:01 PM
Buzz_25th wrote:
- Is every other DX9 game going to rewrite for nvidia
- too?


I think its the least the devs could do... I mean, if I buy a video card, I expect it to work properly every time new drivers are released. I'm just so used to my nvidia card ALWAYS working that i'd never even consider ATI... besides, 3 more FPS might make you a forum-hero, but not if it locks your machine up every 8 minutes.

Poke prod poke prod poke prod.

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XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 06:01 PM
Appearing and actually being are two differnt things......as you said half life was APPEARing to be released soon....reality..hmm

Bandwagons come and go atleast have the foresight to bring a change of clothes incase you need to jump off /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif .

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 06:01 PM
Buzz_25th wrote:
- Is every other DX9 game going to rewrite for nvidia
- too?

The current (and few) DX9 games are just in a transitional phase that ATI is taking advantage of (because of it's 24 bit code instead of 32 bit code)

DX9 games of the future will use 32 bit code (the one Nvidia has been using for DX9 games all along)

So no the early pre-historic DX9 games won't have to rewrite for Nvidia, they will just have to settle for lower sales and less performance on the majority of gamer's computers. Hopefully their next versions will have 32 bit instead of 24 bit code, though.

"The Force is strong with this one." -What an ace said of RayBanJockey during a fight when he was still a newbie.
<a href=http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612109283>news update</a>

Buzz_25th
10-07-2003, 06:05 PM
I like my 5900, so lets see how this plays out. I'll hold off changing for awhile.

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XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 06:08 PM
The delay of Half-Life 2 is unconfirmed by valve. So it's not set in stone yet.

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 06:09 PM
Well,NO WAY that they are wre writing the code.I haven't looked into this but re-writing code for such a big game/engine would take a lot of time.
And I do mean a LOT
so I think sicne the code got stolen they'll just add some MAYOR security to the game


<img src="http://www.planeshift.it/download/ps_banner1s.gif"<

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 06:15 PM
Sry..its last time I did it, dont tell my mom /i/smilies/16x16_robot-sad.gif LOL

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XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 06:34 PM
Nvidia's NV38 (along with the rest of the FX series) has been dubbed as a substandard card by Team Dx. This means that DX will not include NV in it's developement range for Directx10. Team DX made the decision "as a favor to the graphics industry". Team DX claims that NV violated their partnership agreement by changing the DX9 code with their latest set of drivers as caught by Xbit labs recently. This violates the licensing agreement and conpromises DX's quality in order to make it seem as if ATi and NV cards alike display the same image quality (which would be really bad in this case).


============================
The important thing in [tactics] is to suppress the enemys useful actions but allow his useless actions. However, doing this alone is defensive.

Miyamoto Musashi (1584-1645)
Japanese Samurai and Philosopher
(More than 60 Victories in Hand-to-Hand combat.)

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 06:47 PM
Thanks Oak Grove - I was just about to paste the same thing...

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.

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 06:50 PM
Jeez RJB at least get your info straight:

""A third of the source code was stolen," VU Games president of international operations Christophe Ramboz told daily Les Echos in its Tuesday edition. "It's serious because it forces us to delay the launch of the game by at least four months, that is to April 2004. Just the time to rewrite parts of the game."


They aren't rewriting the whole game and it's not written for nvidia-it's for security reasons UNLESS you think nvidia stole to code to give their driver team more time to rewrite NVIDIA driver code /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


I actually hope nvidia gets their act together and makes NV40 a real screamer-this situation will only make both companies work harder for our dollar/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.uploadit.org/files/051003-Screen1.1a.jpg>



"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

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XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 06:50 PM
I must say that I agree with RBJ on this because of the reading that I have found. I think people need to stop flaming each other on my video card is better than your video card and start looking at why it is the way it is at this point. What really needs to happen is that people need to start pointing their fingers at the major issue in the computer industry which is doesn't care about performance and stability but rather how much can I profit right now on doing something a certain instead of the right way....

....Micro$oft....

http://firingsquad.gamers.com/hardware/kirk_interview/page3.asp

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 06:51 PM
RJB is notorious for flaming people that own ati and saying that ati is shat-he is in no way shape or form what you make him out to be in your post liverwurst

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.uploadit.org/files/051003-Screen1.1a.jpg>



"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 06:56 PM
If you like higher fps at 1600xresolutions and like to play with aa and af on full, the atis are the best card of choice

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Good dogfighters bring ammo home, Great ones don't. (c) Leadspitter

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 06:58 PM
couldn't have said it better myself lead /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.uploadit.org/files/051003-Screen1.1a.jpg>



"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 06:58 PM
I don't mind ATI (keeps Nvidia on their toes) but I would never buy one. Too many bugs in the games I play. If they get their act together and clean up the cataylst drivers to work good in current DX8.1 games, I might consider them in my next upgrade (but I doubt it).

"The Force is strong with this one." -What an ace said of RayBanJockey during a fight when he was still a newbie.
<a href=http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612109283>news update</a>

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 06:58 PM
agree with you leadspitter..
if you have 19 inches or above monitor,it is a must to have ATI card /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

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XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 06:59 PM
Rogodin and Lead are right, ATI's are the dogs bollocks. I was a staunch Nvidia fan until I bought a real graphics card - don't listen to RBJ's propaganda! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

/m



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Buzz_25th
10-07-2003, 07:04 PM
Hogwash! Come to my house and watch FB on my 21" monitor. If you say your ATI looks better, i'll give you my system.

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XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 07:09 PM
Pah, Buzz! My grandfathers 1992 VGA card is faster and produces better looking images than your souped up microwave oven control unit! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif


You don't frighten us, Nvidia pig-dogs! Go and boil your bottom, sons of a silly person. I blow my nose at you, so-called Nvidia King, you and all your silly Nvidia ccccccaaarrds. Thpppppt! Thppt! Thppt!

Now, go away, or I shall taunt you a second time-a!




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XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 07:12 PM
IT looked better on my crumbier 19" than my brother's viewsonic with a 5900nonU (oc'd).

With full AA and AF on quality my 9800 looked better in FB on my generic monitor than my brother's 19" viewsonic and 5900nonU-this was at 1280x960@32 and "perfect".

He thought the same.

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.uploadit.org/files/051003-Screen1.1a.jpg>



"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 07:12 PM
Its a shame that the code was stolen, must have been quite a good hack involving keystroke logging from what I have heard.

The code will be rewritten to change the security and anti piracy side of things.

On the video card side, I just hope both Nvidia and ATI can produce storming cards as competition is what drives this industry and allows me to buy the cards second hand when the prices have dropped.





Cpt-Madcowz
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XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 07:14 PM
take screenshots with fps's on buzz http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

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XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 07:15 PM
how about you come over to my house in San diego and see it for yourself with ATI card running with 22" digital flat screen monitor, just dont drool over my keyboard otherwise you have to replace it.

ps: you pay your own ticket.

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XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 07:23 PM
Oak_Groove wrote:
- Nvidia's NV38 (along with the rest of the FX
- series) has been dubbed as a substandard card by
- Team Dx. This means that DX will not include NV in
- it's developement range for Directx10. Team DX made
- the decision "as a favor to the graphics industry".
- Team DX claims that NV violated their partnership
- agreement by changing the DX9 code with their latest
- set of drivers as caught by Xbit labs recently. This
- violates the licensing agreement and conpromises
- DX's quality in order to make it seem as if ATi and
- NV cards alike display the same image quality (which
- would be really bad in this case).
-


If you believe this load of crap, I've got a bridge to sell you.

I should write a book about the history of the computer industry so you schmucks would have a clue.

DirectX is crap people. 'Team Dx' is a catchy name for MICROSOFT PROGRAMERS.

Talk about underhanded moves... this one is the ultimate.

Microsoft creates a new graphics 'standard' that directly competes with OpenGL (even though OpenGL suits all games perfectly, MS doesn't want it around because it allows for porting of games to non-windows OS).

Why create a "standard" if you aren't going to allow ALL card manufaturers the same level of access to the underlying technology? Because MS wants to controll everything.

And you morons keep right on buying it.

Listen asshats... HARDWARE leads SOFTWARE. Not the other around. Natural progression of technology happens when the HARDWARE manufacturers are allowed to create first, while the software guys catch up.

Keep supporting ATI and you support technology stagnation just so you can flash your phalic signatures.



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XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 07:24 PM
I don't understand why you guys are so brand loyal!?

I got my ti4600 because it was the best thing going at the time. when I upgrade (I figure I've still got at least another year before that becomes necessary) I'll get the best thing going then, be it ATI, or Nvidia.

If you like the card you have, then you got a good card. Screw hardware guides, screw benchmark scores, screw FPS (especially on games that aren't even out yet). If you are happy w/ the graphics, what else matters?

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XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 07:25 PM
RayBanJockey wrote:
- Half-Life, the game ATI paid off 6 million to has
- been delayed until April 2004. Their code was
- stolen and since the game didn't work well with
- Nvidia cards, Valve has decided to just rewrite it
- all.
-
- In other news, the FX5700 (NV36) is expected to
- debut from Nvidia soon. With a $199 price tag and
- performance that is expected to totally blow away
- any GF4 card (and any comparable offering from ATI),
- it appears there will be a new mainstream video card
- king.


RBJ RBJ you didn´t get a single thing right!

HL 2 being delayed is bad news for everyone. And the 6 million was what ATI payed Microsoft to develope the XBOX 2!!!

And I won´t even mentioned your post about the NV36... But for sure maybe the NV40 will be able to run HL 2 well, that is very likely.

Here is a real quote:

"Summary:

The theft of part of its source code has delayed until April 2004 the launch of Half Life II, the hotly anticipated alien-hunting game of Vivendi Universal Games. "A third of the source code was stolen. It's serious because it forces us to delay the launch of the game by at least four months, that is to April 2004. Just the time to rewrite parts of the game." Read the full article for more details."

But then there are quotes like this from www.halflifesource.com: (http://www.halflifesource.com:)

According to a news article posted today on a UK press release, there is a Half-Life 2 delay. We already know that Valve does is not mentioning a delay.

We received an email from Mike Thompson who says he works for Vivendi Universal and writes:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
delay is not confirmed...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here we go around and around... again...

A Small Portion of Source
Tuesday, October 7, 2003 | Posted by: Andy Hodges 19 comments


Our exclusive visit with Gabe Newell and Valve Software did confirm that only a SMALL PORTION of the source code was taken. This is different than most of the reports. The entire source was not taken. Straight from Gabe Newell.

No Mention Of Half-Life 2 Delay. So far Half-Life 2 is shipping for the HOLIDAYS.

It appears that Valve Software is really close to getting the hackers. They seem to have their names written on a whiteboard. It's no wonder that it's business as usual at Valve!

They have names on the whiteboard -- the history, date, times -- and other things that looked like file names. That was pretty much a quick issue. You know, it's done! They're on it! They look like they know who did it.

Business seems to be as usual at Valve, and it appears they are working hard on rolling out Half-Life 2.

By the way, just because a little bit of code compiles doesn't mean that a person has Half-Life 2. It means they have a small portion of it and that's all.

We have a slide-show presentation tomorrow on Half-Life Radio.

As usual, keep it here for the latest Half-Life news.

It sure doesn´t look good but it´s not an affirmative yet. Anyone heard anything from Valve?

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 07:30 PM
BaldieJr, Toms Hardware, independant and well respected, slated the latest Nvidia stuff too, and they removed it from their buyers guide - smoke and a pancake?

/m



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XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 07:30 PM
And why is it people still listen to RBJ? Valve isn´t rewriting the HL 2 code for better performance with nvidia video cards. It´s because they got a code leak and has to modify it so people can´t cheat when playing on-line. That´s why it´s so easy to cheat in Counterstrike. Please read the comment and not the distorted RBJ version...

The code isn´t rewritten for enhancing performance in any way, it´s because of security reasons...

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 07:31 PM
BaldieJr,
try to edit your writing of unnecessary insults before attempting to impress us with your insight, it just makes you look like a 5th grader.


============================
The important thing in [tactics] is to suppress the enemys useful actions but allow his useless actions. However, doing this alone is defensive.

Miyamoto Musashi (1584-1645)
Japanese Samurai and Philosopher
(More than 60 Victories in Hand-to-Hand combat.)

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 07:33 PM
Well I wasn't pleased with the performance of my two geforce 4s (about 1.5 years ago) and that is why I bought a 9700-haven't looked back since.

BaldieJR

That's the biggest load of FUD I've ever heard-and you called us names on top of it-not a nice boy you are.

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.uploadit.org/files/051003-Screen1.1a.jpg>



"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 07:33 PM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

That is really bad news about Halflife. Major disapointment.

Sad,really sad - I hope they catch the culprit(s)

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Buzz_25th
10-07-2003, 07:34 PM
ICAG_Bader

OK, that was funny. You know how to play the game I see../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif The rest of these serious types, don't have a clue.



Dayak,

I don't need a ticket. I can drive there in two hours.

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25th_Buzz
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XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 07:39 PM
God damn bees around here are piissing me off /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.uploadit.org/files/051003-Screen1.1a.jpg>



"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif



Message Edited on 10/07/0311:39AM by Rogodin

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 07:39 PM
9700pro is the first ATI card I've purchased (6 months now since purchase). Best $250 i've spent in awhile. I guess I bought it when ATI started getting there drivers right because I have not had one problem with the catalysts. Picture quality is superb, performance excellent. Any thing I've thrown at it has worked great.

Ways back when I replaced my Stealth S540 32mb card with a GF2 mx400 that was the best $100 I spent at the time. Installation and drivers were flawless and my games became very playable.

2 years ago when I replaced the GF2 with a TI-200, that was one of the best $200 I'd spent and made playing games like IL-2 possible. Installation and drivers went in flawlessly.

However the 85 ford tempo I bought back in 93 was the WORST $800 Ive ever spent. Spit out axles like crazy, electrical problems. Performance sucked. Constantly needed reinstallation of something.Lasted 1 year before I got rid of it.

When a game I really want to play comes out and the 9700pro cant handle it, I'm going to look for the best possible card for the budget I set. If all the benchmarks say ATI, then I'll get ATI. If it say Nvidia, then I'll get Nvidia. If it says Trident, then I'll get Trident.

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 07:41 PM
Buzz_25th wrote:
-
- OK, that was funny. You know how to play the game
- I see../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif The rest of these
- serious types, don't have a clue.
-
-
Why thankyou sir /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

/m



<font face="verdana, arial, helvetica" size="2" >__________________

It's enough to make you want to hide in the wardrobe of darkness.
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<font size="1">Pentium 4 3Ghz 800Mhz FSB Hyperthreading | Abit IC7 Max 3 | 256Mb Radeon 9800 Pro |
2 x WD Raptor 10,000rpm S-ATA's (RAID 0) | 1Gb OCZ PC4000 Dual Channel Gold Series DDR |
Coolermaster 'Black Widow' | Zalman 7000-CPU Cooler | Track-IR | 3.5Ghz overclock | 940Mhz FSB |
Sound Blaster Audigy Platinum EX | Microsoft FF2 Joystick | 3DMark2003:6234 | 3DMark2001SE:19568</font></font></p></p>


</p>

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 07:43 PM
Buzz_25th wrote:
- Dayak,
-
- I don't need a ticket. I can drive there in two
- hours.


that is cool, just tell me when you can come over and i'll give you my address /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

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XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 07:44 PM
ICAG_Bader wrote:
- BaldieJr, Toms Hardware, independant and well
- respected, slated the latest Nvidia stuff too, and
- they removed it from their buyers guide - smoke and
- a pancake?
-

Do you mean this (http://www.tomshardware.com/graphic/20030714/index.html) buyers guide on tomshardware.com that included the FX series?

I'll smoke yours, thanks.

<font face="Courier New">

_____ | _____
_\__(o)__/_
./ \.

</font>

Buzz_25th
10-07-2003, 07:45 PM
Dayak,

I'm at your back door now../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

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25th_Buzz
<center>
http://www.vfa25.com/sigs/buzz.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 07:46 PM
Sorry for me mixing up Oak_Grooves quote and Baldie Jr.


Oak_Groove wrote:
-- [i]Nvidia's NV38 (along with the rest of the FX
-- series) has been dubbed as a substandard card by
-- Team Dx. This means that DX will not include NV in
-- it's developement range for Directx10. Team DX made
-- the decision "as a favor to the graphics industry".
-- Team DX claims that NV violated their partnership
-- agreement by changing the DX9 code with their latest
-- set of drivers as caught by Xbit labs recently. This
-- violates the licensing agreement and conpromises
-- DX's quality in order to make it seem as if ATi and
-- NV cards alike display the same image quality (which
-- would be really bad in this case).</



Well this topic is created by a single person who doesn´t seem to have any relationship with Microsoft or anything. It seems to be a great made up thread. Won´t take any account to it until I see it displayed on respected hardware sites really...

Seems very weird since nVidia just recently stated that they will drop their CG and develop their videocards specifically for Microsofts shader language incorporated in dx 9 as ATI does nowadays...


Baldie Jr quotes downwards:

Keep supporting ATI and you support technology
- stagnation just so you can flash your phalic
- signatures

Well this I don´t really understand? Why do I support technology stagnation by supporting ATI? ATI was the first dx 8.1 card and dx 9 card and was the first 8 pipeline card produced, first video card with the 256-bit bus. The list of technology break throughs just gets longer with every ATI release.


Listen asshats... HARDWARE leads SOFTWARE. Not the
- other around. Natural progression of technology
- happens when the HARDWARE manufacturers are allowed
- to create first, while the software guys catch up.

Nicely put. But totally wrong. Software leads hardware. How can you develop games with awesome new technology if you haven´t software being able to programme to? If you got the new hardware first you still can´t fully use it until you get the software for it. Anyone wonder why dx 9 games aren´t appearing until now even if the 9700 PRO has been out for quite long? Because dx 9 was released 6 months after the 9700 PRO...


Why create a "standard" if you aren't going to allow
- ALL card manufaturers the same level of access to
- the underlying technology? Because MS wants to
- controll everything

Well nVidia themself decided to drop out from the dx 9 standards. There was noone forcing them to do that. They hoped the CG would score big.

ATI, Nvidia and others are all part of the OPEN GL group and nVidia will probably join the dx program from here on. 2 standards ARE better than one. As it is now dx 9 and Open GL do have pretty much the same ability to make use of the newest video card technology available.

Standards is a great thing. How many wants every video card to have their own glide? It´s a nightmare for game developers and gamers.





Message Edited on 10/07/03 06:50PM by oeqvist

Message Edited on 10/07/0307:19PM by oeqvist

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 08:01 PM
BaldieJr wrote:
-
- ICAG_Bader wrote:
-- BaldieJr, Toms Hardware, independant and well
-- respected, slated the latest Nvidia stuff too, and
-- they removed it from their buyers guide - smoke and
-- a pancake?
--
-
- Do you mean <a
- href="http://www.tomshardware.com/graphic/20030714
- /index.html">this</a> buyers guide on
- tomshardware.com that included the FX series?
-
- I'll smoke yours, thanks.
-

LOL - Baldie, you said the magaic word - it _INCLUDED_ the FX Series, i.e. it don't anymore ! hahaha

NOW would you like a pancake? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif



<font face="verdana, arial, helvetica" size="2" >__________________

It's enough to make you want to hide in the wardrobe of darkness.
http://www.raf-cott.demon.co.uk/images/GR7%20top%20Dinas%20Mawddwy.jpg


<font size="1">Pentium 4 3Ghz 800Mhz FSB Hyperthreading | Abit IC7 Max 3 | 256Mb Radeon 9800 Pro |
2 x WD Raptor 10,000rpm S-ATA's (RAID 0) | 1Gb OCZ PC4000 Dual Channel Gold Series DDR |
Coolermaster 'Black Widow' | Zalman 7000-CPU Cooler | Track-IR | 3.5Ghz overclock | 940Mhz FSB |
Sound Blaster Audigy Platinum EX | Microsoft FF2 Joystick | 3DMark2003:6234 | 3DMark2001SE:19568</font></font></p></p>


</p>

Buzz_25th
10-07-2003, 08:03 PM
Why do they put canned peaches in pear juice?

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25th_Buzz
<center>
http://www.vfa25.com/sigs/buzz.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 08:07 PM
oeqvist,

If you think software comes before hardware, you're nuts. Thats what M$ wants the world to believe, but its just not so. I can't imagine a bunch of nerds in the 50's writing an OS for a machine that did not yet exist. hahaha.

As for the other folks: neener neener neener. You can accuse me of whatever, it wont change the fact that ATI is one of the dirtiest companies ever to produce a video card. It also doesn't change the fact that you are all relative newcomers to technology so you don't even remember when ATI was caught changing binaries on end-users' machines in order to produce better framerates. Nor do you remember ATI saying that "3d gaming was just a fad".

You buy from the video-editing guys, I'll keep buying from the company thats been about gaming from day one.

PS- I live for these threads!

<font face="Courier New">

_____ | _____
_\__(o)__/_
./ \.

</font>

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 08:14 PM
I remember playing doom on my old 486 buddy-don't pull your pudding before the fat lady sings.


I remember ATI and I remember Nvidia in the old days-and ATI's hardware has always been superior-it was their software and lack of customer support that always made me keep clear of them-well the tides have changes and now Nvidia is the most spurious of the two (this is basically an Axiom by now)-producing hardware that NEEDS software work arounds just to function at the same or lower level than their competitor ATI.

In conclusion-your points are inane because you can't prove them with valid premises-just your opinion-and that means absolutely nothing.

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.uploadit.org/files/051003-Screen1.1a.jpg>



"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 08:15 PM
ICAG_Bader wrote:
- BaldieJr wrote:
--
-- ICAG_Bader wrote:
--- BaldieJr, Toms Hardware, independant and well
--- respected, slated the latest Nvidia stuff too, and
--- they removed it from their buyers guide - smoke and
--- a pancake?
---
--
-- Do you mean <a
-- href="http://www.tomshardware.com/graphic/20030714
-- /index.html">this</a> buyers guide on
-- tomshardware.com that included the FX series?
--
-- I'll smoke yours, thanks.
--
-
- LOL - Baldie, you said the magaic word - it
- _INCLUDED_ the FX Series, i.e. it don't anymore !
- hahaha
-
- NOW would you like a pancake?

If you read the guide, you'll see that this (http://www.tomshardware.com/graphic/20030714/vga_card_guide-06.html) is a write-up of the FX-series cards.

Just ket me know when breakfast is ready.

<font face="Courier New">

_____ | _____
_\__(o)__/_
./ \.

</font>

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 08:16 PM
I'll take that pancake-and maybe a bunny with a pancake on it's head. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.uploadit.org/files/051003-Screen1.1a.jpg>



"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Buzz_25th
10-07-2003, 08:17 PM
Why not peach juice?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
25th_Buzz
<center>
http://www.vfa25.com/sigs/buzz.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 08:18 PM
If you think software comes before hardware, you're
- nuts. Thats what M$ wants the world to believe, but
- its just not so. I can't imagine a bunch of nerds in
- the 50's writing an OS for a machine that did not
- yet exist. hahaha.


Well can you explain how games could utilize the newest video cards functions if there are no way of taking advantage of them? Do you honestly think that dx 8 games look as good as dx 9 games on the newest video cards?

It saves a lot of time releasing software first. Since ATI and nVidia is all part of the OPEN GL group as well as dx 9 group they can upgrade their software for utilizing the latest functions on the video cards while the video cards are still on the drawing board.

Instead of saying Microsoft would be alone for DX and a third party developer would be alone for Open GL and that they then would get the specs when the video cards are for sale??

It just doesn´t make sense does it? It´s as much ATI and nVidia who develop DX 9 as it´s Microsoft. In fact it´s primarily ATI and nVidia and other video card developers even if they got less to say about it because they are smaller.

Believe me if there wheren´t any dx 9 or Open GL 1.5 available today why would video card makers develop video cards for it? For sure they would of course then feel forced to develop their own standards which doesn´t gain anyone or else all they would do would be to bump the GPU and memory as much as they could more or less.


I really don´t get your point here?

Buzz_25th
10-07-2003, 08:21 PM
These guys are typing so fast their keyboards are smoking. It's so cute../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

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25th_Buzz
<center>
http://www.vfa25.com/sigs/buzz.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 08:22 PM
RayBanJockey wrote:
- I don't mind ATI (keeps Nvidia on their toes) but I
- would never buy one. Too many bugs in the games I
- play. If they get their act together and clean up
- the cataylst drivers to work good in current DX8.1
- games, I might consider them in my next upgrade (but
- I doubt it).


Give me at least one bug you experienced with ATI. I'm usint second ATI card. First one was 9000 Pro wich replaced my MX 400. With this card I got used playing with resolution 1600x1200 and at least 2x AA. Now I'm using Soft9700. I got it the same time my brother got FX5600. He has more powerfull computer and FB with the same satting i used was a slide show, so he sold. He wanted to replace it with the same card I had but couldn't find it. They all were sold already. So he got 9800 and very happy now. Not me, not him never had a problems with ATI cards and drivers.

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 08:23 PM
I like pear juice better buzz-I thought the popcorn was buring /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


RJB DOESN'T OWN AND NEVER HAS AN ATI CARD.
rogo

<center><img src =http://www.uploadit.org/files/051003-Screen1.1a.jpg>



"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif



Message Edited on 10/07/0312:24PM by Rogodin

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 08:27 PM
- RayBanJockey wrote:
-- I don't mind ATI (keeps Nvidia on their toes) but I
-- would never buy one. Too many bugs in the games I
-- play. If they get their act together and clean up
-- the cataylst drivers to work good in current DX8.1
-- games, I might consider them in my next upgrade (but
-- I doubt it).
-
-
- Give me at least one bug you experienced with ATI.
- I'm usint second ATI card. First one was 9000 Pro
- wich replaced my MX 400. With this card I got used
- playing with resolution 1600x1200 and at least 2x
- AA. Now I'm using Soft9700. I got it the same time
- my brother got FX5600. He has more powerfull
- computer and FB with the same satting i used was a
- slide show, so he sold. He wanted to replace it with
- the same card I had but couldn't find it. They all
- were sold already. So he got 9800 and very happy
- now. Not me, not him never had a problems with ATI
- cards and drivers.
-
-
Don´t mind RBJ. He has never owned an ATI card and doesn´t know anything about video cards except some of his beloved Geforce 4.

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 08:30 PM
IS my sig PHALIC?

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.uploadit.org/files/051003-Screen1.1a.jpg>



"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Buzz_25th
10-07-2003, 08:32 PM
It's fine if you like Russian jets../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
25th_Buzz
<center>
http://www.vfa25.com/sigs/buzz.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 09:09 PM
I like smoking and holding a stack of pancakes covered in pear juice while knocking on Dayak's back door. But thats just me. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

<center>
http://www.brooksart.com/Icewarriors.jpg

"Ice Warriors", by Nicolas Trudgian.

Message Edited on 10/07/0308:10PM by kyrule2

Buzz_25th
10-07-2003, 09:12 PM
kyrule,

You've been sucking on too many 190 fumes../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
25th_Buzz
<center>
http://www.vfa25.com/sigs/buzz.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 09:18 PM
Buzz, it sure beats sucking on Rogo's "Phallic sig."

<center>
http://www.brooksart.com/Icewarriors.jpg

"Ice Warriors", by Nicolas Trudgian.

Message Edited on 10/07/0308:21PM by kyrule2

Buzz_25th
10-07-2003, 09:20 PM
Could be, but who did that? (My comment was sarcasm. I hate Russian jets..)../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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25th_Buzz
<center>
http://www.vfa25.com/sigs/buzz.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 09:22 PM
My comment was not directed at you, it was put out there for the whole world to ponder.

<center>
http://www.brooksart.com/Icewarriors.jpg

"Ice Warriors", by Nicolas Trudgian.

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 09:24 PM
What gets me about all this is what, Valve (Half Life) didn't know enough to burn their code onto a CD-RW?

They only had one copy of critical programming?

Anyone who has used a computer more than a month knows better than that.



Zip

<center>BlitzPig_Zip

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/gingernuts/blitz_anim.gif </center>

Zayets
10-07-2003, 09:26 PM
Rogodin wrote:
- RJB is notorious for flaming people that own ati and
- saying that ati is shat-he is in no way shape or
- form what you make him out to be in your post
- liverwurst
-


Hey! How about me? I am the one who said you're an ATI fanboy! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Zayets out

http://www.arr.go.ro/iar81c.JPG

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 09:27 PM
Is my sig Phallic?

http://www.costumes.org/tara/portfolio/costcrafts/92871_05.jpg




Message Edited on 10/07/0308:27PM by kyrule2

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 09:29 PM
I like pancakes./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif


<img src=http://www.geocities.com/g8tr45/bunny.txt>

Buzz_25th
10-07-2003, 09:30 PM
Harry,

Being a pig. I don't know if your serious.

It's not that Valve lost the code (they didn't). It's that someone else has it now.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
25th_Buzz
<center>
http://www.vfa25.com/sigs/buzz.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 09:31 PM
and to sum it all up, we will all have to see what happens when the nv40 gets here. Until then an ati card will be thing I will be using.

oh but wait, what about the r-400 I keep hearing about?

I'm a crappy pilot, but one hell of a shot.

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 09:33 PM
Well there is even rumours there is a beta version of Half Life 2 out to be played... They said they got a third of their code leaked...

And Baldie JR skip your Linux, windows XP work much better /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 09:37 PM
GREAT NEWS its all bull (I hope :anxious)

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=11984

Not the most reliable source but I put all my thumbs and hopes on it being the truth...

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 09:54 PM
I got MSI FX 5600 for $180 and at the same time my brother got ATI 9500 for $130. I used my Nvidia for a while and was happy. Then my bro came over and played FB on my system. He said that he can't play because picture quality is really bad. Then i got a chance to play FB on his system. After a couple of quick missions i said : "That's it!!!
Im changing to ATI!" I sold my FX 5600 for $130 (took $50 loss) and wanted to get the same Radeon 9500. But they where all sold out at my favorite store "newegg.com" I had some extra mone and i got Radeon 9800 nonpro for $250 (only some 60 bucks over FX 5600).
I'll never go Nvidia again.

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 09:55 PM
All this talk about pancakes, pear juice, and peaches is making me hungry. Hey pass me the mashed Potatoes.






"Of all my accomplishments I may have achieved during the war, I am proudest of the fact that I never lost a wingman. It was my view that no kill was worth the life of a wingman. . . . Pilots in my unit who lost wingmen on this basis were prohibited from leading a [section]. They were made to fly as wingman, instead."
Erich 'Bubi' Hartmann "Karaya One"

Buzz_25th
10-07-2003, 09:59 PM
Desant,

Don't judge nvidia by the 5600. It seems you need the top card if you want to compare to ATI. Nvidia put all their eggs in one basket. The 5900 Ultra.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
25th_Buzz
<center>
http://www.vfa25.com/sigs/buzz.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 10:22 PM
Buzz_25th wrote:
- Desant,
-
- Don't judge nvidia by the 5600. It seems you need
- the top card if you want to compare to ATI. Nvidia
- put all their eggs in one basket. The 5900 Ultra.
-
-

Why souldn't i judge Nvidia by their middle class product! That's where Nvidia always has been on the top. It is common knowledge that Radeon 9800 series is better than 5900 in high-end.

From my personal experience I got tha ATI provides better quality for less. That's exactly what i need.

And the fact that ASUS is going ATI proves that Nvidia has serious problem.

Buzz_25th
10-07-2003, 10:33 PM
Common knowledge? I've had both cards, and you can't prove it by me. It depends on what game your talking about. Some games the 5900 is a clear winner. Some games the ATI is better. FB is a draw.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
25th_Buzz
<center>
http://www.vfa25.com/sigs/buzz.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 10:35 PM
I get the same impression from reading the Tom's hardware article on the 5900, Buzz.

I'm a crappy pilot, but one hell of a shot.

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 10:50 PM
Man, that "bunny with the pancake on it's head" really ticks me of.

It is clearly overmodeled! Can anyone else see it? Clearly the bunny has two pancakes on it's head.

So sad it tries to pass itself as a bunny with only one pancake on it's head....pffffft!

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 10:52 PM
I wonder when this dead horse is gonna be totally dead... should we cremate it? Will that help? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Regards,
VFC*Crazyivan
http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/ivan-reaper.gif

"No matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down." Ivan Kozhedub

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 11:11 PM
Desant_CCCP wrote:
-
- Buzz_25th wrote:
-- Desant,
--
-- Don't judge nvidia by the 5600. It seems you need
-- the top card if you want to compare to ATI. Nvidia
-- put all their eggs in one basket. The 5900 Ultra.
--
--
-
- Why souldn't i judge Nvidia by their middle class
- product! That's where Nvidia always has been on the
- top. It is common knowledge that Radeon 9800 series
- is better than 5900 in high-end.
-
- From my personal experience I got tha ATI provides
- better quality for less. That's exactly what i need.
-
- And the fact that ASUS is going ATI proves that
- Nvidia has serious problem.


Your recognitions are absolutely correct... Buzz will probably agree with you when he gets his 9800XT...

So Buzz wether HL 2 will be delayed or not make sure you get it before they get second thoughts...

Buzz_25th
10-07-2003, 11:15 PM
If I get it. I'm not ready to give up the performance i'm getting in the games that I play now.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
25th_Buzz
<center>
http://www.vfa25.com/sigs/buzz.jpg

ZG77_Nagual
10-07-2003, 11:37 PM
If you look at our esteemed comrade RBJ's initial post, you may notice that it makes absolutely no sense whatever with regard to his assertion, dogmatic and ill-informed to the point of , dare I say: Self-Parody - that ati graphic cards - the uncontested dominant manufacturor in bang-for-the-buck - the 5900ultra being the only nv card that even arguably matches or exceeds even midrange ati cards.

The fact is nvidia is now owned by Sun Yung Moon - founder of the nefarious 'Moonies'. Like all his assets (The building the FBI rents for it's washington headquarters - for example) He is using this business to further his ultra-conservative political ambitions and to undermine the separation of Church and State - and other founding principals of our democracy. Support Nvidia and you support the erosion of the American Way of Life, loss of american jobs to South Korean sweatshops, Brainwashed children, mandatory sterilization, Sex with small animals and household appliances, group thing, Enforced quotas on Bowel movements, Polyester clothing, Processed Cheese food and ritual human sacrifice.

With the money Nvidia makes off gullible fools like you the Moonies next intend a hostile takeover of Harley-Davidson.

Think twice, my friend, before singing the praises of this technlogical tribute to the creaseless brains of dull-eyed human sheep - think twice - for it may be the last free thought you have.

As for me - you can have my Radeon 9800 pro when you pry it from my cold, dead agp slot.

E Plurbis Videom



http://pws.chartermi.net/~cmorey/pics/whiner.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 11:42 PM
Nagual,

A warning man. A simple warning is all that would have been needed...but nooooo, you had to go and post this. Not only does my nose burn but now I got coke all over the monitor and keyboard...

;-)

Hunter82
10-07-2003, 11:50 PM
Hi just popping in to see the lunacy...carry on

=======================================
Ubisoft IL2/Lock On Moderator
ATI Catalyst Driver Beta Tester
Hunter82 wrote:"I did not have technical relations with that question"
Mudmovers (http://www.mudmovers.com/) </center>
=======================================
http://www.brunching.com/images/hellweather.gif (http://www.brunching.com/toys/hellweather.html)

Buzz_25th
10-07-2003, 11:53 PM
Hunter,

Stick to your plan of not posting anymore../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
25th_Buzz
<center>
http://www.vfa25.com/sigs/buzz.jpg

Hunter82
10-08-2003, 12:25 AM
Not as often Buzz.... I delete more posts than I respond to /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

=======================================
Ubisoft IL2/Lock On Moderator
ATI Catalyst Driver Beta Tester
Hunter82 wrote:"I did not have technical relations with that question"
Mudmovers (http://www.mudmovers.com/) </center>
=======================================
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XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 12:33 AM
Jezzuzz my phalus is all out of whack now /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.uploadit.org/files/051003-Screen1.1a.jpg>



"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 12:37 AM
RayBanJockey wrote:
- In other news, the FX5700 (NV36) is expected to
- debut from Nvidia soon. With a $199 price tag and
- performance that is expected to totally blow away
- any GF4 card (and any comparable offering from ATI),
- it appears there will be a new mainstream video card
- king.


Ya then 6 months after that ATi will be back ontop /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


Great to here this......

Im Glad these two companys are pushing each other so hard & keeping the prices low this can only be good for us in the longrun Compitition keeps the cards up to snuff and beyond


Rock on Nvidia Rock On ATi !!!

Push the limits

<CENTER> http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_109_1065290873.jpg </center>

Buzz_25th
10-08-2003, 12:43 AM
I wish they'd cut it out, and stop right now. If they would stop making better systems. The game makers would have to leave the games at this level, and we would all be richer.

Imagine building a system that lasted 2-3 years? It's a big scam right now, and pi$$es me off.

I can't think of anything else you buy that is out of date so fast. I wish i'd never seen a video game.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
25th_Buzz
<center>
http://www.vfa25.com/sigs/buzz.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 12:52 AM
Milk? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 12:55 AM
my 9600 is still proudly erect.

http://www.endlager.net/fis/pix/banners/fis_banner_07.gif


She turned me into a newt, but I got better.

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 01:15 AM
Yet another fanboy fight? Sigh, yawn, burp, fart... /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif



Message Edited on 10/07/0305:16PM by BlackPhenix

Buzz_25th
10-08-2003, 01:19 AM
Yet another hot air post from BlackPhenix.

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25th_Buzz
<center>
http://www.vfa25.com/sigs/buzz.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 01:21 AM
Hey Buzz, Nice to see you again! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 01:43 AM
Maybe that announcement by the direct x team about DX10 has something to do with the fact that Microsoft has a multi-million dollar deal to develop graphics for the XBOX2. Two years ago Microsoft was all over Nvidia because of the original XBOX.

I own a Geforce 4 and its been great but i have to say that RIGHT NOW, ati has the advantage.

CHEERS

Buzz_25th
10-08-2003, 01:48 AM
BlackPhenix

Anytime...burp..fart.......sorry.........excuse me../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

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25th_Buzz
<center>
http://www.vfa25.com/sigs/buzz.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 02:00 AM
Microsoft should keep out of the debate and pi$$ off. I will always run OpenGL over DirectX cause in my eyes OpenGL looks a hell of a lot better. Also I like that OpenGL is cross platform and developed via consortium not by a monopoly.

Yes I use Windows and will not use Linux but it doesn't mean I have to be happy about it. Only cause my two fave apps run only on Windows FB and Cubase SX )-:

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 02:56 AM
I use OPEN GL for games that run better with it but there are games that run mucho better (plus look like andromeda) with DX.

there is no way I'm going to not run DX when it looks and runs better than opengl.

I think it's great to have a api standard supported by a billion dollar company.

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.uploadit.org/files/051003-Screen1.1a.jpg>



"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 03:15 AM
Buzz_25th wrote:
- Dayak,
-
- I'm at your back door now../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif which is happened to be in my backyard.
do you have her bonsai buzz??? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif


The Sun is Gone
But I Have a Light
<CENTER>http://images.flagspot.net/i/id%5eaforo.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 03:19 AM
kyrule2 wrote:
- I like smoking and holding a stack of pancakes
- covered in pear juice while knocking on Dayak's back
- door. But thats just me. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif


you crack me up dude /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

The Sun is Gone
But I Have a Light
<CENTER>http://images.flagspot.net/i/id%5eaforo.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 03:55 AM
Hey Buzz, i want to get an upgrade on my FX 5200 but i only have 250$ to spent what should i get? this thread is giving me a headache, NV,ATI,NV,ATI,NV,ATI.NV,ATI.../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif
And what the hell is with the pancakes and smoke and bunny talk about i dont F-ing get it... i am stupid, clearly./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 04:06 AM
I just waded throught the whole Anandtech part 2 article.

YOu're beloved F1 game runs faster on a 9800xt than it does on a nv38 buzz-you better go read it.

ANd here are a few blurbs.

F1

"The first thing that needs to be mentioned about this game is that NVIDIA has some known issues that we saw pop up. When driving the car and driver will kind of shimmy back and forth. It's slightly irking, but very playable. Of course, in the replay feature, this problem is amplified any is almost more anoying than sitting through the 10 minute X2 demo 16 times."

"Right now NVIDIA is at a disadvantage; ATI's hardware is much easier to code for and the performance on Microsoft's HLSL compiler clearly favors the R3x0 over the NV3x. NVIDIA has a long road ahead of them in order to improve their compilers to the point where game developers won't have to hand-code special NV3x codepaths, but for now ATI seems to have won the battle. "


"ATI is still the recommendation."

ATI wins %75 of these tests and in most cases their % gap is over %12 and sometimes over %40.

good luck defending them now nvidiots.

rogo



<center><img src =http://www.uploadit.org/files/051003-Screen1.1a.jpg>



"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 04:08 AM
They say opengl runs better on nvidia cards but they only tested one game so I'd like to see you guys advise them to test IL-2 FB as their flight sim (their asking and my intention isn't to show up any vga maker, just to get IL-2 FB with "perfect" on their list).

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.uploadit.org/files/051003-Screen1.1a.jpg>



"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 04:14 AM
I like this place.
And willingly could waste my time in it.

As You Like It - Act2, Scene4

<center>
http://home.comcast.net/~argylestransom/Pics/A10Bun.jpg

</center>

Buzz_25th
10-08-2003, 04:15 AM
Which F1 game were they talking about? I know it wasn't GPL. Probably F1 99-03. I don't really fool with that game much. GPL is my sweetheart. That game has to run in OGL, and ATI cards won't do it.

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25th_Buzz
<center>
http://www.vfa25.com/sigs/buzz.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 04:25 AM
It's 99-02 and not grad prix legends-I guess you're off the hook.

But my brother can't play thief 1 on his 5900non U worth a crap and all of my radeons run it like butter-so it's a tossup

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.uploadit.org/files/051003-Screen1.1a.jpg>



"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 04:25 AM
ATI SUCKS!

uH! no!

Nveedia Sucks/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Uh nO!

MG sucks Yea Thats it!!

Oh wait! mg is a car/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Well they all suck/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif



-------------
DaBaTT
===============================
Ever dance with the devil by the pale moonlite/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 04:25 AM
Good news for Intel users I read today... Nvidia, the industry leader in gaming hardware, is probably going to incorporate its Soundstorm to add in cards. This means no more having to buy buggy Creative Labs cards. Creative Labs is kind of like ATI. Both focus on multimedia instead of pure gameing, and both have bugs in games. Long live Nvidia, the king of gaming hardware.

"The Force is strong with this one." -What an ace said of RayBanJockey during a fight when he was still a newbie.
<a href=http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612109283>news update</a>

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 04:28 AM
one is better than the other-that is macro econ and right now ATI is better-it's fact based on public review sites and user reviews, it will change just as it should-but to not realise that ATI is on top of the super VGA game is ludicrious, let alone myopic.

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.uploadit.org/files/051003-Screen1.1a.jpg>



"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Buzz_25th
10-08-2003, 04:28 AM
Rogo,

I was having trouble with some of the newer games. Then I went to DX 9.0b, and the 45.23 drivers. They all run smooth now.

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25th_Buzz
<center>
http://www.vfa25.com/sigs/buzz.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 04:33 AM
Right on buzz-good thing they release a crap load of non-whql drivers for you to pick from /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

You're like mephistopholes RJB, you just won't stop bugging Faust about how LOW the rivers of hell run.

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.uploadit.org/files/051003-Screen1.1a.jpg>



"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Buzz_25th
10-08-2003, 04:35 AM
Just giving you a suggestion for your brother.

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25th_Buzz
<center>
http://www.vfa25.com/sigs/buzz.jpg


Message Edited on 10/07/0308:51PM by Buzz_25th

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 04:37 AM
The only reason Intel is a leader in desktops is because they build their computers with super cheap crappy geforce 4 mx and geforce fx 5200 cards for their budget series (just what your joesixpack buys because he knows no better), but I'm operating a custom PC building buisness that builds OVER spec systems with ATI cards FOR LESS than any dell xts system you'll ever buy /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I've sold quite a few already, and people are now asking me "why is nvidia in buisness?"

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.uploadit.org/files/051003-Screen1.1a.jpg>



"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif



Message Edited on 10/07/0308:38PM by Rogodin

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 04:37 AM
Thanks for the suggestion buzz.

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.uploadit.org/files/051003-Screen1.1a.jpg>



"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 06:18 AM
i see Nvidiots /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

The Sun is Gone
But I Have a Light
<CENTER>http://images.flagspot.net/i/id%5eaforo.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 06:50 AM
This is better than many of today's sitcoms. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif Keep the one liners coming /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 07:07 AM
Big Brother has nipples.



<center><img src =http://www.uploadit.org/files/051003-Screen1.1a.jpg>



"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 07:14 AM
Buzz_25th wrote:
- Hogwash! Come to my house and watch FB on my 21"
- monitor. If you say your ATI looks better, i'll give
- you my system.
-
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'd probably love your system.

And your address is....?




<center>Beebop-ProudBirds-VFW<center>http://www.uploadit.org/files/230903-Beebop%20Sig.jpg

Buzz_25th
10-08-2003, 07:25 AM
Big Bear. Turn left at the tall pine tree, past the family of grizzly bears, over the brook, and i'm the cabin on the left. You'll see my Jeep parked out front. Don't worry about the rather large pit bull. He's friendly. (he tells me to say that to all strangers).

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25th_Buzz
<center>
http://www.vfa25.com/sigs/buzz.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 07:38 AM
Rogodin wrote:
- I use OPEN GL for games that run better with it but
- there are games that run mucho better (plus look
- like andromeda) with DX.
-
- there is no way I'm going to not run DX when it
- looks and runs better than opengl.
-
- I think it's great to have a api standard supported
- by a billion dollar company.
-
- rogo
-

u joking right?

Great having a standard backed by an international company? reason y they have it is to try and kill open gl y because if everything uses direct x no other operating systems have a chance.

Open gl is an open standard been around a very long time, it is multiplatform and not under the control of a single monopolyistic company that dose not have your interests in mine, currently they are trying to exend windows to the bios with a deal with phoenix and to encorprate DRM that is not what ild call desirable.

Theres probly a reason why many of the best games use open gl, il2 sturmovik, quake3 and all games built on its engine, homeworld uses dx only for multiplayer and i think sound. Me also being a linux user would quite happly aplaud the end of direct x.



http://lamppost.mine.nu/ahclan/files/sigs/spitwhiners1.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 07:47 AM
Buzz, you listen to your Dog??
i wonder which one is the owner /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

The Sun is Gone
But I Have a Light
<CENTER>http://images.flagspot.net/i/id%5eaforo.gif

Zayets
10-08-2003, 08:03 AM
Rogodin wrote:
- They say opengl runs better on nvidia cards but they
- only tested one game so I'd like to see you guys
- advise them to test IL-2 FB as their flight sim
- (their asking and my intention isn't to show up any
- vga maker, just to get IL-2 FB with "perfect" on
- their list).
-
- rogo


Rogodin! That will be enough for the moment!
I try not to step into these ATI vs nVidia debates , but this time I'll jump in. Not for nVidia,not for ATI. Happens for me to own now a Ti4600, for the simple fact that 1 year ago plus/minus few months was the best card on the market.Or it was Parhelia? Don't remember , but the last one was quite expensive.now ,for opengl test. Happens to you to run Linux , time to time? No mtter which distro? Well , one thing I can tell you for sure , opengl runs BETTER on my poor Ti4600 than on ATI 9700 (dunno if pro or not pro). And I did played few games in pure OpenGL. But you can test it quite simple.There's a progrm glxgears , basically on any Linux distro. You will see aany difference. That's my benchmark. And my Ti , yep , beats the crap over a newer ATI. You can blame the drivers,dunno but is a fact! Indeed ATI seems to be close to microsoft and nVidia to others. Fact is if you like something , whatever! don't try to convince somebody else unless you're asked.ATI is good , fine , happy for you. nVidia is good? The same. micro$hit is pretty scared if the games will be developed for OpenGL , that means platform independece , the nightmare of Bill and Steve.No wonder they invest so much in ... ATI lately.For me is quite simple , I want a card which is good in both OS's Linux / Windoze because of my work(hobby) / game and so far nVidia is better for BOTH. The moment I will have two computers then one will be efor Linux ONLY with nVidia on and the other one Windows (maybe Linux dual boot /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif ) with ATI.
Stop arguing , both are good brands but when two fight each other usually the winner is ... a third one.

and oeqvist , are you a m$ employee? If you think software should lead hardware then you should play that strip tetris on a P4 and let's see if you can finish level.

Zayets out

http://www.arr.go.ro/iar81c.JPG

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 09:37 AM
Notice how much unpleasentness RBJ brings with him to any thread. He must be great at parties.

Hawgdog
10-08-2003, 01:39 PM
EagleDeer wrote:
- Notice how much unpleasentness RBJ brings with him
- to any thread. He must be great at parties.


Like having a one night stand tell you "oh, its not contagious"

by the way I was Nvidia all the way, till I got an ATI high end card- I was at a cross roads and had intended to stay with the Nvidia cards, much research and went ATI
I'll try another Nv card someday, who knows. They both have excellent points going for them.
pfffft on flaming threads

<center></script>The Original HawgDog
Join the club! Enlist today!
Names similar still available- HogDawg (no hyphen) Hawg-Dog, HugDawg, HowgDog,Hawg-Dog (use hyphen), And I believe Hawg-Doggie(pending)
http://users.zoominternet.net/~cgatewood/assets/images/sharkdog.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 01:52 PM
Buzz_25th wrote:
- If I get it. I'm not ready to give up the
- performance i'm getting in the games that I play
- now.
-

You can´t loose any performance going from a 5900 ULTRA to a 9800 PRO... /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif It´s a free gain.

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 01:53 PM
the bigger the monitor the bigger the dots, the bigger the dots the crappier the graphics. sad but true


carry on

http://www.endlager.net/fis/pix/banners/fis_banner_01.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 01:53 PM
And it´s confirmed that the nVidia being kicked out of Dx 10 is bull$hit. It´s a made up thread. There was just a press release that nVidia will being a full fledged member of the ARB programme...

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 03:27 PM
Who needs half life 2 anyway? Stalker is going to come out too and it'll make HL2 look ridiculous.

Nic

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 03:48 PM
RayBanJockey wrote:

- The current (and few) DX9 games are just in a
- transitional phase that ATI is taking advantage of
- (because of it's 24 bit code instead of 32 bit code)
-
- DX9 games of the future will use 32 bit code (the
- one Nvidia has been using for DX9 games all along)
-
- So no the early pre-historic DX9 games won't have to
- rewrite for Nvidia, they will just have to settle
- for lower sales and less performance on the majority
- of gamer's computers. Hopefully their next versions
- will have 32 bit instead of 24 bit code, though.
-

///////////////////////////////////////////////////



Just to explain you a few industry facts , ...the entire graphic DX9 code is build 24 bit , no patch or mod can fix this , there is no such thing like old or new specs but only DX9 specs.
The only thing that can change this is Microsoft making a whole new DX9 code from scratch and not a patch but they will never do this since ATI signed with Microsoft for XBOX 2 wich was made specificaly to handle DX9 24 bit.
Software Dx9 developers must make all the new games under M$oft specs .
The NV30 FX5800 design was finished and paper launched in december 2001 within Dx8 specs the and the internal GPu was designed at that time especialy to handle DX8 with 4x2 pipes , Dx8 shaders and 16/32 precision code .
The only thing what they add to this design for the new 5900/U was a 256 bit interface but the internal hardware remain the same , for this the FX series perform good in DX8 and bad in Dx9 , because the hardware is in fact a Dx8 design.
Longhorn will be build in DX10 and will hawe 32 and 64 bit code precision .
Microsoft announced that they will not release a new version of DirectX for windows XP , the new DX10 version will be out only with the Longhorn release .

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 05:50 PM
nicolas10 wrote:
- Who needs half life 2 anyway? Stalker is going to
- come out too and it'll make HL2 look ridiculous.
-
- Nic

I wouldn´t bet on it if I where you. Sure I am looking forward to both Stalker and Half Life 2. Am quite sure Stalker can´t beat Half Life 2 in term of physics, gameplay and characters.

Stalker competes more against HALO and Far cry to me...

It would be a shame missing out on any of this. Stalker is a bit more of a gamble than Half Life 2. Half Life is the most successive game in PC history after all...

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 06:36 PM
I never liked Half Life 1 AT ALL. I don't even consider playing the two. Maybe the demo to see the oooh and aaah, but that'll be it.

Nic

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 06:45 PM
Actually with anand's latest part 2 review of unreleased drivers and NV38 against a card that will be on the market soon (with overdrive features in the driver which will push all xt's over stock performance by a max of %20) 9800XT USING cat 3.7s (the 3.8s come out today)

For a IQ review I thought it sucked badly, shots too small and in strange places (we're supposed to take anand's word/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif yeeaaaa right, guru3d has a review up with a conclusion that IQ IS sacrificed with the 52s

Here are the numbers-not looking too hot for the 5950-with the new 3.8s out today I expect to see the radeon take %80 of all benchmarks not just %60 or 70%.

all 4xAA 8xAF results:

C&C Generals: Zero Hour
1280x1024 9800XT leads 8.6%
1600x1200 9800XT leads 1.8%
EVE: The Second Genesis
1600x1200 9800XT leads 46.4%
F1 Challenge '99-'02
1280x1024 9800XT leads 13.5%
1600x1200 9800XT leads 16.1%
Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy
1280x1024 5950U leads 26.2%
1600x1200 5950U leads 16.8%
Neverwinter Nights: Shadow of Undrendtide
1280x960 5950U leads 18.4%
1600x1200 5950U leads 20.4%
SimCity 4
1280x1024 9800XT leads 73.5%
1600x1200 9800XT leads 83.2%
Tron 2.0
1280x1024 9800XT leads 68.2%
1600x1200 9800XT leads 69.5%
Unreal Tournament 2003
1280x960 9800XT leads 6.7%
1600x1200 9800XT leads 6.0%
Warcraft III: Frozen Throne
1280x1024 9800XT leads 44.0%
1600x1200 9800XT leads 54.1%
Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory
1280x1024 5950U leads 2.3%
1600x1200 5950U leads 15.2%
X2: The Threat
1280x1024 5950U leads 10.9%
1600x1200 5950U leads 7.7%

all results from games that dont have 4xaa/8xaf results:

Aquamark3
1024x768 - no AA/4xAF(App) 9800XT leads 4.0%
Final Fantasy XI
1024x768 - no AA/AF 9800XT leads 14.2%
GunMetal
Benchmark1 1280x1024 - 2xAA/No AF 5950U leads 6.0%
Benchmark1 1600x1200 - 2xAA/No AF 5950U leads 8.6%
Benchmark2 1280x1024 - 2xAA/No AF 5950U leads 7.8%
Benchmark2 1600x1200 - 2xAA/No AF 5950U leads 10.7%
Halo
1280x1024 - No AA/AF 9800XT leads 0.3%
1600x1200 - No AA/AF 5950U leads 3.3%
Homeworld 2
Benchmark1 1280x960 - No AA/AF 9800XT leads 1.3%
Benchmark1 1600x1200 - No AA/AF 9800XT leads 21.1%
Benchmark2 1280x960 - No AA/AF 9800XT leads 3.4%
Benchmark2 1600x1200 - No AA/AF 9800XT leads 25.6%
Splinter Cell
1280x1024 - No AA/AF - 5950U leads 3.6%
1600x1200 - No AA/AF - 9800XT leads 1.5%
Tomb Raider
1024x768 - No AA/AF 9800XT loses 18.6% LESS PERFORMANCE HIT
1280x960 - No AA/AF 9800XT loses 11.2% LESS PERFORMANCE HIT
1600x1200 - No AA/AF 9800XT loses 13.1% LESS PERFORMANCE HIT
1024x768 - 4xAA 9800XT loses 10.3% LESS PERFORMANCE HIT
1280x960 - 4xAA 9800XT loses 10.3% LESS PERFORMANCE HIT
1600x1200 - 2xAA(what da hell?) 9800XT loses 11.4% LESS PERFORMANCE HIT

i am sure 5950U should have looked even worse if the review didnt do 4xAA8xAF benchmarks selectively

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.uploadit.org/files/051003-Screen1.1a.jpg>



"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 06:53 PM
Bad news for nvidia-glad I have some ati stock /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

selling it soon


ATI's reports for the fourth quarter of its 2003 fiscal year.

REvenues for the fourth quarter were $380.7 million compared to $355.7 million in the thrid quarter of fiscal 2003 and 70.8% higher than the same quarter a year ago. Gross margin was 35.6% rising 3.0 percentage points from 32.6% in the thrid quarter. Operating expenses, excluding amortization of intangible assets and other charges, increased $9.7 million to $99.5 million compared to the third quarter.

Net income for the fourth quarter was $22.3 million or $0.09 per share compared to net income of $15.0 million or $0.06 per share for the third quarter of 2033 and a net loss of $34.6 million or $0.15 per share for the same period a year ago.

Adjusted new income for the fourth quarter was $29.0 million or $0.12 per share compared to $20.1 million or $0.08 per share for the previous quarter, and an adjusted net loss of $0.1 million or $0.00 per share for the same period a year ago.

Must be the fact that the R3xx was and is the best selling DX9 card on the market /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.uploadit.org/files/051003-Screen1.1a.jpg>



"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Buzz_25th
10-08-2003, 07:09 PM
How do you explain such wide spread results from the different games. If the 9800 is clearly a better card. Why doesn't it win everything?

Just asking.

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25th_Buzz
<center>
http://www.vfa25.com/sigs/buzz.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 07:17 PM
Because the 9800xt should have been tested with the cat 3.8s just like the 5950 was tested with the unreleased 52s.

In that case it will win all the benchmarks or come to withing %95.

Other review sites are posting that THERE IS IQ degredation with the 52s-so it's likely that the massive performance gains with the unreleased 52s is not based on true optimizations but IQ degredation (which anand did a crappy job of looking into IMO).

Evan Lieb is posting his thoughts over at nvnews.net and is getting raked over the coals by the knowledgeable old time nvidiots for Anand's shoddy review.

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.uploadit.org/files/051003-Screen1.1a.jpg>



"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Hawgdog
10-08-2003, 07:18 PM
oh who gives a rats arse?

pffffffft

<center></script>The Original HawgDog
Join the club! Enlist today!
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XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 07:20 PM
I would if I was contemplating dropping $450 for a fx 5900U or the yet to be released $500+ fx 5950ultra.

I build systems as a side job and this is just the stuff I need to know when I talk to gamers on the phone about upgrading or building them new systems.

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.uploadit.org/files/051003-Screen1.1a.jpg>



"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Buzz_25th
10-08-2003, 07:20 PM
Arn't these results simular to the 9800 Pro against the 5900 Ultra with old drivers?

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25th_Buzz
<center>
http://www.vfa25.com/sigs/buzz.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 07:25 PM
Hm I coun't ATI taking 8 of the benchmarks while nivia grabs 4.

My memory is a bit hazy but weren't the 43s the ones the 5900u was benched with (and was fairly close to the radeon back then maybe loosing 2 benchmarks to the radeon?) Then the 45s came out and the big mess with degraded IQ but higher fps was found out-it's been a little too long for me to remember.

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.uploadit.org/files/051003-Screen1.1a.jpg>



"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Zayets
10-08-2003, 07:28 PM
And I suppose they are all DirectX games , hehehe.

Zayets out

http://www.arr.go.ro/iar81c.JPG

Buzz_25th
10-08-2003, 07:33 PM
I kind of forgot too. I think the 44.03 drivers were pretty normal. It's those tests I was thinking of.

I just don't understand if a card is better. Really better. Why it doesn't win every test. It makes me question the tests that it does win. See what i'm getting at. If there is something funny going on. Why isn't it consistant.

I'm not switching my card again until i'm positive about all this.

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25th_Buzz
<center>
http://www.vfa25.com/sigs/buzz.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 07:33 PM
I know that they ran UT2003 in opengl but I'm not sure about the others, there is a discrepence with the maps they chose to run and the whole nvidia NOT doing trilinear AF when enabled in the control pannel (giving spurious benchmark results in UT2003)

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.uploadit.org/files/051003-Screen1.1a.jpg>



"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 07:41 PM
Zayets

A little something for you ;O

"ATI talks Linux! - 7:14 pm EST - kombatant
Since the Catalyst suite became a reality for Windows users, Linux users were left wondering whether these exciting features would also make it to everyone's favourite Open Source operating system. In the past few months there have been rumors that ATI will go ahead and revamp its Linux suite, some even said that a Linux Catalyst release was in the pipeline. To attempt to set the record straight and to find out the truth, me and Alpha prepared some questions for ATI concerning its Linux drivers, and today, one day before the Catalyst 3.8 release, we are happy to exclusively present some new information concerning ATI's intentions coming from no other than Terry Makedon himself. Here's one of the questions to get you started:

You announced recently in the Rage3D forums that you would start picking beta testers for Linux drivers. How is the process going?
We have selected some beta testers, and they received the drivers prior to our release of the 3.2.5 drivers. These beta testers were invaluable in highlighting some rough edges for later releases. Similar to the Windows CATALYST drivers, we intend to have an active Beta program prior to each release.

A big "Thank you" to ATI and Terry Makedon for answering those questions for us! You can read the rest of this mini-interview here and of course leave your comments."


rogo

<center><img src =http://www.uploadit.org/files/051003-Screen1.1a.jpg>



"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 07:49 PM
RayBanJockey wrote:
- Good news for Intel users I read today... Nvidia,
- the industry leader in gaming hardware, is probably
- going to incorporate its Soundstorm to add in cards.
- This means no more having to buy buggy Creative
- Labs cards. Creative Labs is kind of like ATI.
- Both focus on multimedia instead of pure gameing,
- and both have bugs in games. Long live Nvidia, the
- king of gaming hardware.
-
-


Sound integrated into video?!!! What a nonsense ! BTW nothing up to date compares to Audigy 2 in gaming. The only card on the market capable of utilizing EAX 4.0. All Sensura based card can't come even close. I've used Turtle Beach SC, M-Audio Revolution and Audigy 2. Had to RMA the first 2 because they didn't come close to Audigy 2 performance in gaming.

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 08:03 PM
anyone wants a free Leadtek G4 Ti 4600???
it is fully working card, it was installed in my girlfriend PC, but i replace it with "better" card.
nothing wrong with the card (hardware).
her eyes can't accept the graphic no more after browsing and playing games in my PC for some hours.
all you got to pay is S/H, I will ship to anywhere you are.


The Sun is Gone
But I Have a Light
<CENTER>http://images.flagspot.net/i/id%5eaforo.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 08:04 PM
shut up RBJ

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 08:09 PM
I'll take it Dayak

do you have a paypal account?

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.uploadit.org/files/051003-Screen1.1a.jpg>



"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif



Message Edited on 10/08/0312:09PM by Rogodin

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 08:10 PM
Where are you at Dayak?

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.uploadit.org/files/051003-Screen1.1a.jpg>



"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 08:11 PM
Wow 5 pages. I saw someone posted that some of you fanboys need to be hired by ATI and Nvidia as marketing reps. Not a good idea to pay for something you are already getting for free. LOL! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Buzz_25th
10-08-2003, 08:12 PM
It's either this, or talk about BOB. Not a great choice.

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25th_Buzz
<center>
http://www.vfa25.com/sigs/buzz.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 08:12 PM
no i dont have PAYPAL rogo, and Iam in San Diego

The Sun is Gone
But I Have a Light
<CENTER>http://images.flagspot.net/i/id%5eaforo.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 08:14 PM
How bout I send you 10$ for shipping to Eugene Oregon by mail?

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.uploadit.org/files/051003-Screen1.1a.jpg>



"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 09:28 PM
Desant_CCCP wrote:
-
- RayBanJockey wrote:
-- Good news for Intel users I read today... Nvidia,
-- the industry leader in gaming hardware, is probably
-- going to incorporate its Soundstorm to add in cards.
-- This means no more having to buy buggy Creative
-- Labs cards. Creative Labs is kind of like ATI.
-- Both focus on multimedia instead of pure gameing,
-- and both have bugs in games. Long live Nvidia, the
-- king of gaming hardware.
--
--
-
-
- Sound integrated into video?!!! What a nonsense !
- BTW nothing up to date compares to Audigy 2 in
- gaming. The only card on the market capable of
- utilizing EAX 4.0. All Sensura based card can't come
- even close. I've used Turtle Beach SC, M-Audio
- Revolution and Audigy 2. Had to RMA the first 2
- because they didn't come close to Audigy 2
- performance in gaming.

RBJ have a real problem reading press releases correctly. Or distinguise pure rumours with no back up with nvidia press releases...

Of course nVidia won´t release the "soundstorm" soundcard as a PCI-card since that would take away much of the reasons to buy a nvidia mainboard. There aren´t any statements like that. Also the Audigy 2 advanced HD equals to EAX 3. EAX 4 isn´t out yet.

You are right about sensaura being crappy for gaming since they use quite a lot of software acceleration and thus are more cpu dependant and are more geared towards music/dvd:s than gaming. However the nforce 2 soundstorm do sniff the Audigy 2 necks really. And it sure has better drivers than Creatives system hogs.

Audigy 2 is great for gaming, probably the best when it works...

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 09:40 PM
Dayak, all I have is a crappy Radeon 8500 64MB card. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

You said that I crack you up, my sense of humor should award me the card. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif I need it bad.

BTW how much of an upgrade is the 4600 from the 8500?

If you are serious I could really use a new card.

<center>
http://www.brooksart.com/Icewarriors.jpg

"Ice Warriors", by Nicolas Trudgian.

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 09:54 PM
Well Kyrule

I tested my 8500LE 300/300 against a oc'd msi g4 ti4400 (this was way back with the cat 2 series) and there WAS NO DIFFERENCE between them-in fact-with 2xaa and 8x af the 8500 was not just a little faster /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I don't think you'd see much if any performance improvement.

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.uploadit.org/files/051003-Screen1.1a.jpg>



"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 10:53 PM
/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

I just can't figure out what card to get. I have been looking the last couple of days. I may go with the powercolor 9700-pro for $275, 9700-pros are hard to find anymore. I should have bought the sapphire 9800 non-pro but newegg is out and it doesn't look like they are coming back. 9800 non-pros are hard to find at a good price as well. I still may go with the powercolor 9800-pro for $325 but that is alot to spend for a card. I'm lost at this point, I want a big jump from my 8500 but I don't want to spen too much. Right now I am debating whether or not to go with the 9700-pro from powercolor or hold off on upgrading. But then again I don't see a likely price drop coming any time soon with the 9800XT's just arriving and will likely stay out of reach for some time. I looked at the 9800SE but I have read too many conflicting opinions to buy it. BTW, I won't shop for computer stuff on ebay, just too risky for me. I will be upgrading my system to a 2800XP shortly. Any advice?

<center>
http://www.brooksart.com/Icewarriors.jpg

"Ice Warriors", by Nicolas Trudgian.

Buzz_25th
10-09-2003, 12:15 AM
Keep it cool.

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25th_Buzz
<center>
http://www.vfa25.com/sigs/buzz.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-09-2003, 12:21 AM
Maybe just hold on for another 2 months-see what happens.

I jumped from a 8500 to a 9700pro and it was a hell of an upgrade /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.uploadit.org/files/051003-Screen1.1a.jpg>



"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-09-2003, 12:26 AM
I love my 9700 Pro, especially now that most of the problems I was having have been fixed as new drivers have rolled out.

A great card, but I read somewhere that ATi is releasing a 9600XT that will be faster and cost less.

However, I know that Powercolor had some problems with the 9700Pros, at least with the earliest revisions of the board. I would look into this if you plan on getting a Powercolor gpu.

Your Post Could Not Be Completed Because:

Board is busy currently unable to post.

Please make any needed corrections and try again.

Fish itchy

ZG77_Nagual
10-09-2003, 12:47 AM
9700s are good cards - I have a 9700 non pro that, overclocked, matches my 9800 pro in 3dmark - but that depends on the card. When the xt or tx or whatever comes out it'll notch all the prices down a tad. 8500 is a good card - I wouldn't hurry. Wait till you can get what you want. Saphire makes boards for ati - so I favor them or ati - but others may have experience with other brands. I know powercolor had some issues in the first round of 9700s.

http://pws.chartermi.net/~cmorey/pics/whiner.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-09-2003, 01:01 AM
I am selling my GF4ti4400 and getting an FX5700

"The Force is strong with this one." -What an ace said of RayBanJockey during a fight when he was still a newbie.
<a href=http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612109283>news update</a>

XyZspineZyX
10-09-2003, 02:04 AM
How much is a 5700 gonna run you RJB?

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.uploadit.org/files/051003-Screen1.1a.jpg>



"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-09-2003, 02:45 AM
BuzzU, your presence is requested in the "Everyone: LOMAC Standard FPS Testing" thread on the LO:MAC forums.

Let's see how well your rig actually performs in a newer flight sim.

The general results seem to be that the 9x00 cards do quite well, the Geforece 4 cards do reasonably well, but the Geforce FX cards do exceptionally poorly, especially compaired to the GF4 and 9x00 cards.

Harry Voyager

http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0YQDLAswcqmIpvWP9dLzZVayPXOmo6IJ16aURujNfs4dDETH84 Q6eIkCbWQemjqF6O8ZfvzlsvUUauJyy9GYnKM6!o3fu!kBnWVh BgMt3q2T3BUQ8yjBBqECLxFaqXVV5U2kWiSIlq1s6VoaVvRqBy Q/Avatar%202%20500x500%20[final).jpg?dc=4675409848259594077

Message Edited on 10/08/0308:47PM by HarryVoyager

XyZspineZyX
10-09-2003, 02:50 AM
The FX5700 should be about $200

But it isn't going to be released mid-October like the FX5950.

Thats too bad. Hopefully it will be in November.

"The Force is strong with this one." -What an ace said of RayBanJockey during a fight when he was still a newbie.
<a href=http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612109283>news update</a>

XyZspineZyX
10-09-2003, 03:33 AM
kyrule2 wrote:
- Dayak, all I have is a crappy Radeon 8500 64MB card.
- /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif
-
- You said that I crack you up, my sense of humor
- should award me the card. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif I need it bad.
-
- BTW how much of an upgrade is the 4600 from the
- 8500?
-
- If you are serious I could really use a new card.

me my self serious about that, but i have to confrom it with my gilfriend 1st, yes the card was mine before r9700pro out, but now it hers, and she bought the G4 Ti4600 replacement with her own money.

The Sun is Gone
But I Have a Light
<CENTER>http://images.flagspot.net/i/id%5eaforo.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-09-2003, 03:37 AM
I am still interested too Dayak /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I could fire off a Hercules fortissimo 2 as a trade /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.uploadit.org/files/051003-Screen1.1a.jpg>



"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-09-2003, 03:50 AM
Thanks for the replies guys. But my girlfriend and I just talked to the mortgage guy today and he recommended establishing more credit (my credit is good but there is not enough, don't you love how you are penalized for not needing to borrow money all the time?).

Anyway, my girlfriend says:

"why not take your credit card and upgrade your computer, I know you wanted to do that?"

I say: ya know, thats not a bad idea.

She says: just try to keep it under $600 to $700.

I say: will do. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Looks like maybe I'll wait until the 9800XT is readily available or go with 9800pro, although I will have to check out the 9600XT since that has me intrigued. Oh well, off to look around at some specs. Btw, thanks for the heads up about the powercolor problems.

<center>
http://www.brooksart.com/Icewarriors.jpg

"Ice Warriors", by Nicolas Trudgian.

XyZspineZyX
10-09-2003, 03:53 AM
right on Kyrule2!

WIsh I was in the same boat /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

still renting and it's sucking badly-hopefully My brother and I will purchase 40 acres of land in the middle washington and we can build some post and beam straw bale homes /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.uploadit.org/files/051003-Screen1.1a.jpg>



"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-09-2003, 02:16 PM
Couple of suggestions:

Looking for a new pc or upgrade check out pricewatch if you live in the states:

http://www.pricewatch.com/

Second. The interest rate on credit cards is ridiculous see if you can get an unsecured line of credit at a bank then do your upgrade using the L.O.C the interest rate is usually less than half of the credit card rate. This will also help build up your credit just a much as a credit card by making monthly payments against the outstanding amount. If you can't establish the line of credit on your own ask the Bank if the will allow a co-signer and then ask your parents if they will co-sign. Try and not put it on your credit card it will be very difficult to pay off if you can't pay like 4X the mimimum monthly payment.

Cheers!



kyrule2 wrote:
- Thanks for the replies guys. But my girlfriend and I
- just talked to the mortgage guy today and he
- recommended establishing more credit (my credit is
- good but there is not enough, don't you love how you
- are penalized for not needing to borrow money all
- the time?).
-
- Anyway, my girlfriend says:
-
- "why not take your credit card and upgrade your
- computer, I know you wanted to do that?"
-
- I say: ya know, thats not a bad idea.
-
- She says: just try to keep it under $600 to $700.
-
- I say: will do. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif -
- Looks like maybe I'll wait until the 9800XT is
- readily available or go with 9800pro, although I
- will have to check out the 9600XT since that has me
- intrigued. Oh well, off to look around at some
- specs. Btw, thanks for the heads up about the
- powercolor problems.
-
- <center>
http://www.brooksart.com/Icewarriors.jpg -
- "Ice Warriors", by Nicolas Trudgian.





Message Edited on 10/09/03 09:19AM by dragonhart38

Message Edited on 10/09/03 09:20AM by dragonhart38

Message Edited on 10/09/0309:20AM by dragonhart38

XyZspineZyX
10-09-2003, 02:27 PM
I keep my 9700 Pro a little longer, haven't given me any problems yet/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
Heard HALO will beat it up though/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

rgds

XyZspineZyX
10-09-2003, 05:11 PM
HALO will beat up any system... Believe me there is a zillion threads of getting really poor performance in HALO with both the latest radeons and nVidia video cards.

I think they went crazy with the special effects. Have heard people that can run it at 60 fps but when real fighting begins it occasionally drops down to 20 fps...

XyZspineZyX
10-09-2003, 06:29 PM
RayBanJockey wrote:
- Half-Life, the game ATI paid off 6 million to has
- been delayed until April 2004. Their code was
- stolen and since the game didn't work well with
- Nvidia cards, Valve has decided to just rewrite it
- all.
-
- In other news, the FX5700 (NV36) is expected to
- debut from Nvidia soon. With a $199 price tag and
- performance that is expected to totally blow away
- any GF4 card (and any comparable offering from ATI),
- it appears there will be a new mainstream video card
- king.
-
- "The Force is strong with this one." -What an ace
- said of RayBanJockey during a fight when he was
- still a newbie.
- news update (http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.p
-)

ur on crack. The NV 37 won't destroy any comparable product put out by ATI... I mean really... Have you heard of the 9600 XT?

And i didn't read the rest of the posts, so I odn't know if this has been mentioned, and there has been a press release, the game will most likely still be out holiday season. I think...

XyZspineZyX
10-09-2003, 07:27 PM
The 6 million on ATI's book was paid to MICROSOFT for the xbox2 deal NOT VALVE.

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.uploadit.org/files/051003-Screen1.1a.jpg>



"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-09-2003, 07:57 PM
ATI paid valve to bundle Half Life 2 with their new cards. Yes, ATI did pay....

XyZspineZyX
10-09-2003, 07:59 PM
They didn't pay 6 million-what people thought was that the 6million missing from the books was paid to valve-which it wasn't-they paid them a little but it's in their books as a certain amount.

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.uploadit.org/files/051003-Screen1.1a.jpg>



"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Buzz_25th
10-09-2003, 08:22 PM
What would really be funny is if Ray ended up buying an ATI card../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I'm sure he's too stubbern though.

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25th_Buzz
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