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Von_Rat
03-26-2005, 02:46 PM
yes another 50 cal thread,,,groan,,,lol.

seriously, ive been flying the p51 alot lately and have come to a conclusion on the 50 cal.

50 cal works just fine in taking lw planes out of the fight. a little sqiurt and they're usually crippled, limping off, looking for somwhere to curl up and die.

edited because people cant read,,,THIS ISNT A KILL STEALING RANT, its about perceived 50 cal effectivness.

now here is where the problem starts, as aforementioned lw plane limps off to die, guess what, a spit comes in and blows him apart, thus getting the kill, even though lw plane was a goner anyway.

now this isn't a kill stealing rant. what im trying to point out is, if im fighting a lw plane by myself with nobody around, 50 cals work great. its only when i have to worry about kill stealing does the 50 cal seem under powered.

im willing to bet that if the scoring system was changed, so that the 1st person to do crippling damage to a plane , got the credit. no matter who shoots him last. then 90% of whines about 50 cal would disapper.

sorry if this has been stated before, search broke.

3.JG51_BigBear
03-26-2005, 03:02 PM
Its a pretty good theory. In real life the main goal of the escort pilots was to scatter German fighter opposition. As a short term strategic objective scattering fighters was just as good as shooting them down to allow for unopposed bombing. When the average German pilot heard rounds hitting his plane he was on his way home becuase it was almost impossible to know exactly what damage the plane had suffered. Having a weapon that was easy to score hits with and would allow for a lot of ammo to be carried would be perfect in a situation like that. In the pacific throwing rolled up balls of toilet paper would have knocked down Japanese AC so heavy cannons weren't called for.

Still, when you get into 100-150M and get about ten degrees of deflection you have a solid kill. I think the .50s are very effective.

JG27_Dacripler
03-26-2005, 03:03 PM
100% of the whining is happening right above me !


Frustrating, but it happends and deal with the cards drawn and pardon the lame pun; deal with it. How many times does this go both ways with a FW diving down on a Spit, get him smoking then to extend for the final blow only to see a newly-found wingmate in a 109 dump him with a MK108?

It happends to me because my aim is off and I should have took the wing off the first pass instead of having to do the work twice.

I am at fault- not the other guy. Unless that other guy flys only to leach off of your misfortune(s)..

But in honesty, I have played all three: target, shot misser and leecher. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Von_Rat
03-26-2005, 03:11 PM
i guess you missed the part about this not being a kill stealing rant.

its about the perceived effectivness of 50 cal.

next sombodys gonna come in here with that stupid build a bridge sig, or the crimea river gag. lol.

i guess ill edited my post for the reading impaired.

pourshot
03-26-2005, 03:32 PM
I understand what your saying Von rat, the .50 cal is a strange weapon it can do massive damage at convergence with a little bit of deflection but other times it €œFeels€ like all your doing is chipping paint even though I am sure the other guy is taking damage sometimes it takes to long do finish him off.

This is why it makes a poor B&Z gun compared to a large cannon you are forced to open fire sooner with the .50 and you quickly pass your convergence range but that is a problem with all wing mounted guns I suppose.

To €œcompletely€ destroy your enemy I think you need a solid 1-1 1/2 second burst, you cant just fire in front and let him fly into your shots like a cannon if you need him down fast.

Think of the .50 as death by a thousand cuts and a cannon as an executioners axe.

p1ngu666
03-26-2005, 03:56 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by pourshot:
I understand what your saying Von rat, the .50 cal is a strange weapon it can do massive damage at convergence with a little bit of deflection but other times it €œFeels€ like all your doing is chipping paint even though I am sure the other guy is taking damage sometimes it takes to long do finish him off.

This is why it makes a poor B&Z gun compared to a large cannon you are forced to open fire sooner with the .50 and you quickly pass your convergence range but that is a problem with all wing mounted guns I suppose.

To €œcompletely€ destroy your enemy I think you need a solid 1-1 1/2 second burst, you cant just fire in front and let him fly into your shots like a cannon if you need him down fast.

Think of the .50 as death by a thousand cuts and a cannon as an executioners axe. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

pretty much spot on there, main good point of 50cal is its ballistics curve, pretty much point and shoot. decent ROF and power back that up.
i want them to ripple fire like they did irl, so u dont fire all at the same time, so u get holes in your fire, and more recoil in PF http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

good defensive guns too http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

VW-IceFire
03-26-2005, 04:03 PM
I think the .50cal has some great advantages over the 20mm cannons...and I'm talking from in-game experience and not the history books (although I know they say similar).

I've been making some good deflection shots, particularly in P-51s, where the target aircraft was cut in half by a .50cal blast...I would never have been able to do it in a Spitfire.

But the original poster is correct. The .50cal can do all the serious damage and cripple the target. But its not physically destroyed which means that the 1001 kill hungry pilots will now decend onto the target without regard for their own safety or lives and both manage to steal the kill as well as ram themselves into the ground (last night I saw 6 guys vie for an already dead kill of which all but one managed to pull out of a impossible to recover from dive).

GUARD4000
03-26-2005, 04:05 PM
Von-Rat,I understand what u mean.It is not hard to put some hits on the bandits when in Mustang because u get 6 MGs.And if nobody else hit that bandit after u put some hits on him,u will get a messege "enemy aircraft destroyed" and 100 points after that bandit crash,ditch or rtb if u are still alive.

But u know the fights online are not that simple,sometimes it is real hard to tell whether the enemy is out of fight or not(people can still shoot after badly damaged,for example once I shot a 109 down without ailerons).I really hate to see friendly ACs got shot down by a bandit that I thought was out of fight.And we both know how much damage a mk108 shell can do(it should be able to do that as that shell is big),so I have to make sure all those guys with mk108s are dead,or sometimes a few mk108 shells will me regret.And on WC there are only 3 LW fighters that cant take mk108---109g2,Fw190a6 and dora.Bf109g2 cant run away so he will stay and fight so u have to help him end the pain.And 190s can sometimes still fight even they are on fire(often they dont explode that fast like 109s or P51s).

So u should KILL those bandits(I mean empty my guns if nessecery) when using .50s or sometimes u will regret even though there are no kill steallers around

PBNA-Boosher
03-26-2005, 04:19 PM
It was stated above perfectly. The point of the .50 cal is to cripple an enemy plane, to scatter. In the Pacific it worked out conveniently that it could shred Japanese planes to bits with incredibly small bursts, but in Europe you have to put more lead on the target. You also need to be very patient. in a plane like the P-38 or P-39, I use the .50's to track and the 20mm or 37mm to finish the kill.

GUARD4000
03-26-2005, 04:25 PM
Von-Rat,m8,I really dont know why u start this thread,there are no thread about .50 in the last couple of weeks.How many .50 whiners u've seen recently?Most .50 users are silent now.

U may want to help and I think your idea about the scoring system is quite good,but your thread may start a new fight and might go on for pages.

JG27_Dacripler
03-26-2005, 04:27 PM
So what I understand you are stating but seriously, it is either peck him to death if you have the opportunity, otherwise get out of there.. I don't think Olig will change the game to show assists now or anytime soon..

This is something we have to deal with and it will not be changed. Your personal satisfaction should be focused with your team having one less aircraft on the other teams inventory - you did your job..


Look at the bright side and check your gun stats for your own gratification..It's all good.

p1ngu666
03-26-2005, 04:35 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
But its not physically destroyed which means that the 1001 kill hungry pilots will now decend onto the target without regard for their own safety or lives and both manage to steal the kill as well as ram themselves into the ground (last night I saw 6 guys vie for an already dead kill of which all but one managed to pull out of a impossible to recover from dive). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
think i know what server u mean, ill haveto fly a b25 on there and see how much trade i get http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

MEGILE
03-26-2005, 05:10 PM
Aye.

Von_Rat
03-26-2005, 05:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GUARD4000:
Von-Rat,I understand what u mean.It is not hard to put some hits on the bandits when in Mustang because u get 6 MGs.And if nobody else hit that bandit after u put some hits on him,u will get a messege "enemy aircraft destroyed" and 100 points after that bandit crash,ditch or rtb if u are still alive.

But u know the fights online are not that simple,sometimes it is real hard to tell whether the enemy is out of fight or not(people can still shoot after badly damaged,for example once I shot a 109 down without ailerons).I really hate to see friendly ACs got shot down by a bandit that I thought was out of fight.And we both know how much damage a mk108 shell can do(it should be able to do that as that shell is big),so I have to make sure all those guys with mk108s are dead,or sometimes a few mk108 shells will me regret.And on WC there are only 3 LW fighters that cant take mk108---109g2,Fw190a6 and dora.Bf109g2 cant run away so he will stay and fight so u have to help him end the pain.And 190s can sometimes still fight even they are on fire(often they dont explode that fast like 109s or P51s).

So u should KILL those bandits(I mean empty my guns if nessecery) when using .50s or sometimes u will regret even though there are no kill steallers around <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

i understand you guard and agree about its safer to totally demolish a enemy if theres any doubt. but if the guy with the fiftys crippled a plane, he should get credit. if somone else still feels the need to make sure its dead, fine, then everyones happy. but the real point is 50s really do work, it just somtimes hard to demolish plane instantly, to prevent kill stealing.

actually even if you demolish a plane somone will still shoot at it,,lol. but that's somthing that needs a honest to god, kill stealing rant, thread of its own. hopfully BOB will change this.

as for no 50 cal threads, true there havent been any lately, but ive seen quite a few negitive 50cal posts in other threads, not to mention teamspeak.