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TinyTim
07-16-2008, 02:15 PM
Ode To The P-38

Oh, Hedy Lamarr is a beautiful gal,
and Madeleine Carroll is too,
But you'll find if you query, a different theory
amongst any bomber crew
For the loveliest thing of which one could sing (this side of the pearly gates)
Is no blonde or brunette of the Hollywood set -
But an escort of P-38s.

Yes, in the days that have passed,
when the tables were massed with glasses of scotch and champagne,
It's quite true that the sight was a thing of delight us,
intent on feeling no pain.
But no longer the same, nowadays is this game
When we head north for Messina Straits
Take the sparkling wine-every time,
just make mine an escort of P-38s.

Byron, Shelley and Keats ran a dozen dead heats
Describing the views from the hills,
of the valleys in May when the winds gently sway
In the air it's a different story;
We sweat out our track through the fighters and flak
We're willing to split up the glory
Well, they wouldn't reject us, so heaven protect us
and, until all this shooting abates,
Give us courage to fight 'em - one other small item -
an escort of P-38s.

~ Frederic Arnold

Urufu_Shinjiro
07-16-2008, 02:52 PM
Absolutely beautiful! Brings a tear to the eye...

Thekid321
07-16-2008, 03:18 PM
the P-38 deserves stuff like that. Ya know?

Mr_Zooly
07-16-2008, 04:02 PM
The P38 was OK in warmer climates but in Europe it kind of sucked, the engines were fine in the Pacific but they didnt seem to like the more temperate climates of northern europe as it seems that engine failure was rife.

Wildnoob
07-16-2008, 05:31 PM
the quality of the british fuel was also not very good for the P-38's engines.

I know the word, but don't know how to wrote it in inglish.

nothing against the Lufwaffe, but the P-38 performed very well against it when it was still a strong force. it fougth against the odds of 10 : 1 and still obtain sucess. I just don't know it's kill ratio at those and later periods of the war.

BSS_CUDA
07-17-2008, 04:44 AM
Originally posted by Mr_Zooly:
The P38 was OK in warmer climates but in Europe it kind of sucked, the engines were fine in the Pacific but they didnt seem to like the more temperate climates of northern europe as it seems that engine failure was rife. its just as cold at 20K ft in Europe as it is at 20K ft in the pacific. the problem was not so much the plane as it was the poor fuel and poorly trained pilots and maintenance crews with the 8th AF

tomtheyak
07-17-2008, 05:42 AM
Originally posted by BSS_CUDA:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mr_Zooly:
The P38 was OK in warmer climates but in Europe it kind of sucked, the engines were fine in the Pacific but they didnt seem to like the more temperate climates of northern europe as it seems that engine failure was rife. its just as cold at 20K ft in Europe as it is at 20K ft in the pacific. the problem was not so much the plane as it was the poor fuel and poorly trained pilots and maintenance crews with the 8th AF </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not gonna jump down your throat on this one Cuda but thats a hell of a judgement; and with all due humility, perhaps a little disrespectful to some of the crews of the 8th. I'm pretty sure they'd argue otherwise! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I thought it was less about maintainence and more to do with inherent design problems (too little oil cooling in the F/G/H, too much in the J)combined with the longer periods spent at extremely high altitude that were a feature of ops in the ETO.

This is the first occasion fuels been brought up as a contributing factor - AFAIK the western allied 100 octanes were some of the best fuels produced by any country at the time?

BSS_CUDA
07-17-2008, 06:25 AM
read Warren Bodie's book on the subject. that should clear up some things for you http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Daiichidoku
07-17-2008, 06:31 AM
bad british fuel, bad USAAF engine operation training/SOP, and lack of sufficient official support/liason between USAAF and Lockheed

Daiichidoku
07-17-2008, 06:35 AM
Originally posted by BSS_CUDA:
its just as cold at 20K ft in Europe as it is at 20K ft in the pacific.

amazing how many buy that cold/hot eto/pto thing eh? just like 38s topped out at 414mph (LMAO!), or the stigma that only the 38 exp compressibility http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

BSS_CUDA
07-17-2008, 07:44 AM
the P-38 was probably the most complex aircraft of its day. it did have some growing pains and was the first in MANY area's of flight. but those that would trash it tend to not know that facts about it and would prefer to listen to many of the "speculators" on the cause

erco415
07-17-2008, 01:08 PM
From Truman Smith's excellant book, "The Wrong Stuff", on a mission in May 1944 (emphasis his):
"Out of the habit I had formed, I looked over my shoulder in the opposite direction of the obvious threat, so as to avoid any surprises- and I was SURPRISED!
There wer two little "dots", way up at 3 o'clock high and they were coming in our direction in a hurry. They were aircraft. I could even make out, as they neared, that they had twin engines and twin-boom tails. That could mean only one thing. They were American P-38 Lightnings - BALANCE ONE!
Before my goose-flesh got too happy, I thought, BALANCE? That was no balance. Two Friendly fighter escorts and FIFTY BANDITS?
Make that FIFTY BANDITS and only one Friendly, because one of the two Friendlies started flying zig-zag over the top of us, like a mother hem protecting her chicks, and the other Friendly kept going until he was above the group of FIFTY BANDITS.
Boy, this was going to be some kind of a performance. One P-38 was going to protect the bomb group all by himself and the other P-38 -by himself- was going to take on FIFTY BANDITS(?).
Now I had seen all kinds of competition, but this was like a single matador jumping into the arena with 50 killer bulls. Somebody was going to get killed for sure. But if victory was going to go to the guy with the biggest "balls," them BALANCE-ONE was, unbelievably, the 50 to 1 favorite.
My God! Balance One flew out over the top of the Bandits, rolled upside down into a "split-S" and dove straight down for the FIFTY BANDITS!. He must've eaten nails for breakfast.
*******ed American fighter pilots: vain, insolent, conceited, arrogant, cocky, and impertinent Fighter Jocks! God bless 'em all. My skin crawled and my eyes got moist- "Greater love hath no man than to lay down his life for another."
There was no doubt, it was a "gutsy" move and I was impressed. Such bravery also impressed the fifty Bandits, because- as if one plane- they all pitched forward into a vertical dive to get away from my hero, the "Forked Tailed Devil," as the Luftwaffe had dubbed the P-38. This was the cool voice on the radio who had been "Just a little busy right now."
Swinging back and forth behind the Bandits, he blew up two ME-109's before they all dove into the cloud deck below us- with Balance One still tailing them.
WOW! What a show! It was well worth the high price of admission. Only the inside of my oxygen mask could have heard my "Thank you Mr. Balance," and -"Where in hell are you going?" as I addressed our Top Cover who also took off for the wild blue yonder at the conclusion of their performance."

Bremspropeller
07-17-2008, 01:29 PM
"Forked Tailed Devil," as the Luftwaffe had dubbed the P-38.

Got any more of those funny tales? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

FoolTrottel
07-17-2008, 02:22 PM
Brems, does "Der Gabelschwanz Teufel" maybe ring a bell?

Bremspropeller
07-17-2008, 02:25 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Yeah, I'm just too plain stupid to translate from English to German, you know.

FoolTrottel
07-17-2008, 02:48 PM
Well, appearantly, there's always a fool who'll do the translation for you... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/halo.gif

Bremspropeller
07-17-2008, 02:58 PM
http://media.ubi.com/us/forum_images/gf-glomp.gif

HayateAce
07-17-2008, 04:34 PM
...the "Forked Tailed Devil," as the Luftwaffe had dubbed the P-38. This was the cool voice on the radio who had been "Just a little busy right now."
Swinging back and forth behind the Bandits, he blew up two ME-109's before they all dove into the cloud deck below us- with Balance One still tailing them.


http://controllercode.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/10/pwned.jpg

Rjel
07-17-2008, 08:10 PM
It's always easy for some people to dismiss stories like this one. Maybe it's true and maybe it isn't, but for God sake, show a little respect. This isn't the first story I've read about escorting U.S.A.A.F. fighter pilots jumping into a gaggle of German fighters with little regard for their own safety. Not every fearless pilot flew for the Luftwaffe.

tomtheyak
07-18-2008, 05:44 AM
Originally posted by BSS_CUDA:
read Warren Bodie's book on the subject. that should clear up some things for you http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

LoL, roger that Cuda, I doff my hat on this occasion!

Thanks for the book recommendation, I'll look it up.

P-38s always held a certain place in my affections - but they gotta be finished in natural ali; OD and grey just spoils the look IMHO.