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View Full Version : Can you sink ships in PF?



JimStuart
06-03-2008, 08:43 AM
Hi, newbie here, I just bought the game as I missed playing old flight sims from my early days like Janes WWII Fighters, Hellcats over the Pacific (<----I doubt anyone on here remembers that one)

Ive tried both European warfare and Pacific Warfare and there is something highly rewarding with destroying a boat with an airplane that few other games have to offer. I dont even have a joystick yet so playing the game is all but impossible, but Im getting a cougar HOTAS soon and Thrustmaster rudder pedals.

I put the game on autopilot in the Pearl Harbor mission and watched how the computer played in 8x compression, and I could see boats catching fire and smoking, but not necesarily sinking.

Is it even possible to sink a battleship or aircraft carrier in this game or can you only make it smoke and catch fire?

Also, is it just me or do all the battleships in battleship row looked more like King George V's than the Oklahoma/Arizona/Utah etc etc.

SlickStick
06-03-2008, 08:59 AM
There are many ways to sink ships in PF, including torpedoes, skip-bombing, dive bombing and rockets. The smaller ships will go down with 2 - 250lbs bombs or 1 - 500lbs. bomb, although sometimes, it takes two runs. Larger ships need more hits to sink them, but as you continue to damage them, they will physically show signs of worsening damage, including smoke and holes in the hull.

I've sunk battleships and carriers with one F4U loadout of 1 - 2,000lbs. and 2 - 1,000lbs. bombs being skipped into the side of the hull or dropped directly onto the deck through dive bombing.

Sometimes again, it takes a second run, but I'm not sure why one time, one bomb run of the above loadout sinks an undamaged ship, and the next server it takes two runs, but maybe it's about proximity of explosions to critical areas of the ships.

Some of the smaller gunboats may take 2 - 500lbs. bombs as well.

TinyTim
06-03-2008, 09:04 AM
Originally posted by SlickStick:
There are many ways to sink ships in PF, including torpedoes, skip-bombing, dive bombing and rockets. The smaller ships will go down with 2 - 250lbs bombs or 1 - 500lbs. bomb, although sometimes, it takes two runs. Larger ships need more hits to sink them, but as you continue to damage them, they will physically show signs of worsening damage, including smoke and holes in the hull.

I've sunk battelships and carriers with one F4U loadout of 1 - 2,000lbs. and 2 - 1,000lbs. bombs being skipped into the side of the hull or dropped directly on the deck through dive bombing.

Sometimes again, it takes a second run, but I'm not sure why one time, one bomb run of the above loadout works on an undamaged ship, and the next server it takes two runs, but maybe it's about proximity of explosions to critical areas of the ships.

Some of the smaller gunboats may take 2 - 500lbs. bombs as well.

Larger ships have rather simple damage modelling - they are divided into a few compartments. In order to sink a ship, one of the compartments must achieve critical damage. That's why it's always best to send all the ordnance into approximately same spot on the ship.

I don't know if all the compartments have the same critical damage limit tho.

SlickStick
06-03-2008, 09:09 AM
Originally posted by TinyTim:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SlickStick:
There are many ways to sink ships in PF, including torpedoes, skip-bombing, dive bombing and rockets. The smaller ships will go down with 2 - 250lbs bombs or 1 - 500lbs. bomb, although sometimes, it takes two runs. Larger ships need more hits to sink them, but as you continue to damage them, they will physically show signs of worsening damage, including smoke and holes in the hull.

I've sunk battelships and carriers with one F4U loadout of 1 - 2,000lbs. and 2 - 1,000lbs. bombs being skipped into the side of the hull or dropped directly on the deck through dive bombing.

Sometimes again, it takes a second run, but I'm not sure why one time, one bomb run of the above loadout works on an undamaged ship, and the next server it takes two runs, but maybe it's about proximity of explosions to critical areas of the ships.

Some of the smaller gunboats may take 2 - 500lbs. bombs as well.

Larger ships have rather simple damage modelling - they are divided into a few compartments. In order to sink a ship, one of the compartments must achieve critical damage. That's why it's always best to send all the ordnance into approximately same spot on the ship.

I don't know if all the compartments have the same critical damage limit tho. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree, but even when that is how it is done by skipping 4,000lbs. of ordinance into the exact same spot at one time, that sunk a previous ship, it still may not sink the same ship when repeating the exact same run and hitting the exact same spot again later or on a different server.

This has been my experience, your mileage may vary, but I've sunk many hundreds of ships over the years on many different servers and haven't pin-pointed the real reason why this happens randomly. Sometimes it also has to do with the ships that respawn after being sunk. They seem to get a little tougher.

TinyTim
06-03-2008, 10:43 AM
Interesting. Maybe compartment limit is randomized to some extent... or maybe you just managed to hit with all bombs in the same compartment on first run, but not in second (if you were hitting very close to the invisible border between two compartments, bombs might have ended in two different sections). It would be interesting thing to test. I think JtD already performed some tests about this some time ago, maybe he can help with data.

SlickStick
06-03-2008, 10:53 AM
Sounds reasonable. I've never done any type of structured testing, I was just going by my online experience. Always a good thing to learn more about this game and how it works.

I guess since my experiences are online, it is also possible that lag may affect my results at certain times, too.

Redwulf 32 - Nis
06-03-2008, 12:33 PM
Here we go.....

.50 cals will do the job nicely http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

SlickStick
06-03-2008, 12:48 PM
Originally posted by Redwulf 32 - Nis:
Here we go.....

.50 cals will do the job nicely http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Yes, ships and Tiger tanks are at the mercy of the .50 cals, be sure. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Kernow
06-03-2008, 02:41 PM
Cannon-fire can sink vessels such as MTBs and those MFP barges. Bombs, rockets and torpedoes are needed for anything larger than the M-class minesweeper. I found that there is no randomness in the amount of bang needed to sink ships - to sink any capital ship (CV, BB) you need 6 'Pacific Fighters' torpedoes (carried on A-20, Beaufighter & G4M) or 10 'original IL-2' torps (carried on IL-2T & He-111 - which carries 2). They do need to hit the same comparment, however.

Ships that came with PF can also have some individual mountings (AAA, main guns, lifeboats, TTs, searchlights etc) which can be destroyed independently, unlike the original IL-2 ships which are fully functional until they sink. For example, the smaller AA mounts on the KGV BBs (includes IJN & USN BB) can be strafed by cannon fire, but larger AA guns & the main guns can't be, although the main guns on DDs can also be destroyed by cannon-fire. Some AA positions on DDs can be very hard to kill - harder than the main guns - because the railings around them act as solid objects and stop the incoming rounds.

Ships smoke when a compartment has taken a certain amount of damage (maybe 1/3 max) or when individual bits are taken out, if applicable.

leitmotiv
06-03-2008, 03:23 PM
Yes, you can sink the ships in PF. The catch is that the big ships sink too easily (AKAGI has a weak spot which will sink her with one 1600-lb AP bomb hit). And, yes, only a minute selection of the warships of the Pacific War were provided, thus, you have PRINCE OF WALES standing in for ships built 20-25 years before her. The perfunctory handling of sea-air was a huge disappointment, along with the lack of all carrier torpedo bombers (I mainly bought PF to "fly" B5N2 "Kate" torp missions).

muzzlehead
06-03-2008, 05:00 PM
Originally posted by JimStuart:
Hellcats over the Pacific (<----I doubt anyone on here remembers that one)



YES I remember this ... Get Yatamoto was my favorite scenario

I flew it on my C64

Troll2k
06-03-2008, 06:13 PM
I have sunk aircraft carriers with 4 Tiny Tims or 7 torpedoes.

I have also sunk makeshift runways out on the ocean.

SlickStick
06-03-2008, 07:23 PM
Ah yes, forgot about those Tiny Tims. They'll do nicely as well. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

ElAurens
06-03-2008, 08:11 PM
I find the 800kg. bomb carried by the Betty is far more effective than a torpedo carried by the same aircraft.

Antisub
06-03-2008, 08:29 PM
If you'll check in FMB you'll see that ships have a skill level just like AI pilots in planes. Set it to Rookie, the ship sinks easier. Set it to Ace, the ship takes more damage before sinking. So the guy building the mission has some say in this.

If you want a real-world analogy, the higher the skill level, the better the damage control parties are at controlling flooding.

ffb
06-04-2008, 12:52 AM
Originally posted by Antisub:
If you'll check in FMB you'll see that ships have a skill level just like AI pilots in planes. Set it to Rookie, the ship sinks easier. Set it to Ace, the ship takes more damage before sinking. So the guy building the mission has some say in this.

If you want a real-world analogy, the higher the skill level, the better the damage control parties are at controlling flooding.


I have never heard of that before...I thought it meant the relative accuracy of the guns....has this been tested?

Certainly a static ship and its moving equivalent take different amounts of punishment

and now if you are a mods user you can adjust the relative strength of ships/vehicles/buildings/objects/trees/etc. to make them easier or harder to destroy...and a new increased sink time is available which lengthens the sinking process by a factor of ten or more....

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c188/fabianfred537/0306200816-09-20.jpg

BWaltteri
06-04-2008, 01:36 AM
The only thing I've ever sunk was the AA cruiser Niobe.

I played the Pe-2 campaign and I never hit anything. Then I came and sank the big one.

SlickStick
06-04-2008, 10:44 AM
Originally posted by ffb:
I have never heard of that before...I thought it meant the relative accuracy of the guns....

That was my understanding as well. It is a setting for gunnery skill level for the ship's AAA.

Uncle_Stranger
06-04-2008, 11:52 AM
You can destroy all but Spitfire in this game.
Remember that.

Zeus-cat
06-04-2008, 09:18 PM
A few weeks ago I sank a destroyer with cannon fire in a coop. The ship had been damaged by bombs, but didn't sink. Two of us made repeated passes on the ship firing cannons at it and it finally went down.

ytareh
06-05-2008, 04:39 AM
@ LEITMOTIV "AKAGI has a weak spot which will sink her with one 1600-lb AP bomb hit"

Tell us more please!

leitmotiv
06-05-2008, 05:48 AM
It can be done two ways. Each requires the use of an SBD with the monster USN 1600-lb Armor-Piercing bomb. (1) (preferred) Suicide dive right aft beneath the flight deck overhang to crash into the boat deck. She'll slowly sink by the stern from one hit. (2) Make a conventional dive bombing attack. Aim at the flight deck aft to have the bomb pass through the overhang into the boat deck. If you do it right, one 1600-lb bomb hit should sink her. If you and your squadron mates concentrate on this spot, she ought to be a goner no matter how much she squirms. This will not work with the 1000-lb bomb (which, I believe, represents the High Explosive or Semi-Armor-Piercing bomb). I discovered this by simple calculation---if the sim was realistic at all, AKAGI should be easier to destroy by passing a bomb through the unarmored flight deck and on through the thin armor above the rudder machinery. The AKAGI was very narrow at this point, and an AP bomb ought to blow her stern off starting uncontrolled flooding.

Good luck. One catch, the 1600-lb AP bomb did not enter service until 1943 so you can't use it in 1942 scenarios. It was the lack of this bomb that saved SHOKAKU from destruction twice in 1942. The 1000-lb HE and SAP bombs did not burst in the guts of the Japanese ships. At Midway the USN was lucky and caught the Japanese with hangars full of fueled and armed bombers. The lousy HE and SAP bombs burst right beneath the flight decks and set these airplanes on fire. If their hangars had been clear, they would have survived.

SeaFireLIV
06-05-2008, 07:04 AM
Originally posted by leitmotiv:
It can be done two ways. Each requires the use of an SBD with the monster USN 1600-lb Armor-Piercing bomb. (1) (preferred) Suicide dive right aft beneath the flight deck overhang to crash into the boat deck. She'll slowly sink by the stern from one hit. .

Ah yes. I remember this one. Our squad were flying an online campaign (SE) and during our preparations, one of us discovered this. We were very excited cos it meant we could beat the Japanese side (with human players) in a miraculously easy way.

But after some thought we abandoned it. We felt it was unhistorical (Allied pilots didn`t commit intentional suicide to sink Japanese ships) and `gaming` the game, as our squad leader mentioned, truthfully.

The enemy never realised how lucky they were...

leitmotiv
06-05-2008, 02:29 PM
You can achieve the same effect by having the squadron concentrate on AKAGI's flight deck aft with the 1600-lb AP bomb. As for the better armored SHOKAKU class, I don't know if this will work---I've never done systematic "weapons tests" on this class.

mortoma
06-05-2008, 08:19 PM
A German Mistel will sink the largest carrier in the game with one hit, guaranteed. I did it once. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

leitmotiv
06-05-2008, 08:54 PM
That's what they were originally designed to do---destroy battleships and aircraft carriers! The world's biggest hollow charge projectile. They were supposed to be used in a big raid on Scapa Flow, but, after TIRPITZ was sunk in late '44, all the first-line capital ships were sent to the Pacific.

ytareh
06-11-2008, 08:46 AM
LEITMOTIV can you clarify about that Akagi Achilles heel please.Ive tried the 1600LBer sending it every imaginable way into the Akagis boat deck below the flight deck at the ships rear(aft).When you said 'right aft' did you mean right hand side?Any more advice re delay speed etc ?

tragentsmith
06-11-2008, 08:58 AM
weeks ago I sank a destroyer with cannon fire in a coop. The ship had been damaged by bombs, but didn't sink. Two of us made repeated passes on the ship firing cannons

True, we have a map called sea fury on Warclouds, and most of the tieme a few ships get sunk by AAA firing at each other.