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FatBoyHK
03-19-2005, 10:13 AM
....then do the same for the other first, instead of thinking about your stats only...

It happened to me two times today. I risked myself to save a friendly in trouble. Crippled the bad guy at his six, trailing black smoke, should be dead in any monment. At this time another bad guy came in, and it was me who is in trouble now....

The guy whom I saved, clearly see what was happening. But instead of trying to save me, he went for the crippled plane.... When I die, I heard he reported his kill on TS happily... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif

I know I should never expect tight teamwork on a DF server.... But at least, I expect people with some basic sense of honor. Moreover, it is much more fun to fly together, saving each others, and achieving mission objectives, than merely blasting all over the place for points.

Tvrdi
03-19-2005, 10:20 AM
IL2/FB/PF community is bigger with every day....around 6-7 times bigger than it was back in 2001. when we (il2 vets) started...so its simple - more ppl more *******s proportionaly http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

VW-IceFire
03-19-2005, 10:45 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FatBoyHK:
....then do the same for the other first, instead of thinking about your stats only...

It happened to me two times today. I risked myself to save a friendly in trouble. Crippled the bad guy at his six, trailing black smoke, should be dead in any monment. At this time another bad guy came in, and it was me who is in trouble now....

The guy whom I saved, clearly see what was happening. But instead of trying to save me, he went for the crippled plane.... When I die, I heard he reported his kill on TS happily... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif

I know I should never expect tight teamwork on a DF server.... But at least, I expect people with some basic sense of honor. Moreover, it is much more fun to fly together, saving each others, and achieving mission objectives, than merely blasting all over the place for points. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Happens to me all the time...I help people as much as I can. I get little or no help in return.

Unless I fly with people I really know. People ling Pingu, Defbond, Biggs22, and others are all excellent team players that I've flown with. These people know how to watch out for the other.

LeadSpitter_
03-19-2005, 11:11 AM
lots of them around, my favorite ones are when you clear their tail of one enemy and they are in trouble for a second time and bnz them in a low alt turn fight the friendly tries shooting at you saying you stole his kill even tho both had no hits on eachother.

p1ngu666
03-19-2005, 11:24 AM
theres also the classic, u zooming down, all ALL hes gotta do is some gentle turns, and ull blast enemy
him
ill break turn my (pick heavy plane) against the guys better turning plane, while pingu, in his p38, cant help me anymore, cos he can hardly move http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

best one ive come across, as a example to others, was 361st (now 318th) kasaynda bnzin a ai that was chaising me, we both had no ammo, but he was still trying to shake him off me http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

think ice, and others have done similer, and i have too, but that one just sticks in my mind http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

Stiglr
03-19-2005, 11:35 AM
I think we've ALL seen this on online dogfights.

Sometimes, I get the feeling that the guy I'm trying to help is so clueless, he doesn't even know I'm there. Instead of setting up a good shot for me, he flies directly back towards me, making it as hard for me to get a shot on his bogie as the bogie that's chasing him. Or he keeps making the tightest possible turn.

I've learned that, some people can't be helped. I certainly won't dive into a situation where one idiot on the deck has "surrounded himself" with 3 or 4 enemy. All I'm going to do is add to their kill bag if I intervene. (And, in many dogfight server situations, people chasing kills don't care about their own safety, and even if you make a quick spraying pass to try and scare them off, they'll stay on their "kill" until the very end, even if it means they die 5 seconds later). And, if the situation above materializes, where the guy I'm trying to save is making it harder for me to help him, and the risk to my own plane becomes too great (because I'm burning energy and spending too much time down low trying to clear someone who's thwarting my efforts), I'll wave "good luck" to him and climb out.

But, if you care about such things have a look at these Secrets of the Drag & Bag (http://www.naysayers.com/9jg52/dragandbag.htm). You'll learn how NOT to drag, and how to actually help somebody save your own @ss.

Manos1
03-19-2005, 12:22 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FatBoyHK:
....then do the same for the other first, instead of thinking about your stats only...

It happened to me two times today. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually I am happy to see you posting this because this proves that THERE IS PEOPLE who care to save the other guy's skin in online servers !

Nice to know your name Fatboy, I will be very happy flying online with you on my six.
(I only hope you fly OKL planes... do you?????) http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/1072.gif

335th_GRAthos

Avid_
03-19-2005, 01:23 PM
This is exactly why I rarely fly DF servers and prefer to fly coops with folks I know. DF servers remind me to much of games like Aces High. You fly around until you find an enemy, engage the enemy, shoot him down and then get gang banged by 6 enemy while you are in a bad E state. At this point you grab another plane and repeat the same thing over and over again. It's like one big hamster wheel of gang rapist. Oh and let's not forget the vultures that get thrown in to the mix to add to the "FUN?"

Avid

Kasdeya
03-19-2005, 02:09 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by p1ngu666:

best one ive come across, as a example to others, was 361st (now 318th) kasaynda bnzin a ai that was chaising me, we both had no ammo, but he was still trying to shake him off me http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

think ice, and others have done similer, and i have too, but that one just sticks in my mind http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

SHH, Pingu, dont tell my ploys, http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif lol.

I try no matter if i get help in return or not. And Ice, you and Pingu always have my help. Just yell at me. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

PS. You misspelled my name. Fnebbery! haha
____________________________________________

I know what you mean FBHK, and TBH I dont blame you for being fustrated. I get that way too. But dont give up helping because then you might help someone who will repay you the favor, and perhaps more than once.

Nice post Stigler.

Cheers Fellas.

CyC_AnD
03-19-2005, 02:58 PM
From my experience most of guys who play this sim from old il2 are much more honorable, teamworking, thinking during flying and friendly. I'm not saying that new simmers are worser but always when Ill joing server where are playing D13, Vipez, and many many more i knew from few years now, i feel more immerse during playing. But then was different times, different game, different people.

When i was hosting in past, i had always put a message into brief: teamwork is very welcome! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Hope to see more people flying planes, not just flying around for a kill http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

S! to all teamworkers, honourable and kind pilotS!

Stiglr
03-19-2005, 03:48 PM
Well, Avid, I'd have to say that, even in the kind of environment you describe, it can still be fun and challenging. There, you simply have to make sure that when you dive in on an enemy you have energy to spare, and that you keep watching for others to enter, leaving the fray if another plane becomes the chief threat.

Many people get fixated on a target (actually, everybody does it from time to time!) and soon find enemy on their own six while finishing off their "victim". In a DF server, the key is to be able to get your kills without compromising your own situation. You have to pick your battles more carefully, and fly flight profiles more ingenious than "fly a beeline to the nearest enemy base at 100 meters altitude".

GUARD4000
03-19-2005, 04:40 PM
FatboyHK,u expect too much.There are many guys on DF servers with no basic sense of honor that u expect.We all have seen many killstealers,disconnectors,faul language users and so on.U know what I saw today?I saw two guys shooting friendly.And I've seen that many times.Right now I dont trust those guys that i dont know well,because usually friendly ACs are much more dangerous than the enemy.We get traffic accidents because some friendly ACs are not careful when taxing.We get killed when trying to help some foolish friendly ACs on the deck.We get shot down or rammed by friendly ACs when we are shooting the enemy just because they think they get the "position".

FatBoyHK
03-20-2005, 12:55 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Stiglr:
But, if you care about such things have a look at these http://www.naysayers.com/9jg52/dragandbag.htm. You'll learn how NOT to drag, and how to actually help somebody save your own @ss. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

nice read, 3 thumbs up!!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

FatBoyHK
03-20-2005, 01:02 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GUARD4000:
FatboyHK,u expect too much.There are many guys on DF servers with no basic sense of honor that u expect.We all have seen many killstealers,disconnectors,faul language users and so on.U know what I saw today?I saw two guys shooting friendly.And I've seen that many times.Right now I dont trust those guys that i dont know well,because usually friendly ACs are much more dangerous than the enemy.We get traffic accidents because some friendly ACs are not careful when taxing.We get killed when trying to help some foolish friendly ACs on the deck.We get shot down or rammed by friendly ACs when we are shooting the enemy just because they think they get the "position". <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You are quite right Guard... 2/3 of my death are from friendly fire, geez... from this I can really conclude that Friendly are more dangerous than bogies...

But any least, there are some guys like you on WC http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

FatBoyHK
03-20-2005, 01:15 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Avid_:
This is exactly why I rarely fly DF servers and prefer to fly coops with folks I know. DF servers remind me to much of games like Aces High. You fly around until you find an enemy, engage the enemy, shoot him down and then get gang banged by 6 enemy while you are in a bad E state. At this point you grab another plane and repeat the same thing over and over again. It's like one big hamster wheel of gang rapist. Oh and let's not forget the vultures that get thrown in to the mix to add to the "FUN?"

Avid <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

yes, as Stiglr said, it is fun (extreme fun for me http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif) to try to get a kill or 2 in an open dogfight, and then RTB to tell the story http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

LLv34_Stafroty
03-20-2005, 01:16 AM
i like it also, when friendly is in trouble, i shoot the bogie in heavy smoke, and thereāĀ“s still few other bogies around. the smoking enemy breaks and heads home, like is wise to do, and i leave him cos theresāĀ“s greater threats to shoot, well, what does the friedly, goes after the smoky guy http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
its so simply stupid thing that wow. it doesnt even make me smile, just shakin my head in frustration. Many times i hope that ppl uses their brains when up there, to think which is more dangerous foe and which to engage. but, its only dream like for many others in here.
like Stigrl said that when going to help someone, he just turns towards and so on makin helpin almost impossible, in those cases its best to start takin alt and stay over the fight till enemy is in good pos to attack, like after he finished the one.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif it would be nice to tell those "noobs" how to maneuver and where, but, its also frustratin thing to do..

FatBoyHK
03-20-2005, 01:18 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 335th_GRAthos:


Nice to know your name Fatboy, I will be very happy flying online with you on my six.
(I only hope you fly OKL planes... do you?????) http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/1072.gif

335th_GRAthos <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

lol, I am a out-and-out Mustang jock http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

GUARD4000
03-20-2005, 04:49 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FatBoyHK:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 335th_GRAthos:


Nice to know your name Fatboy, I will be very happy flying online with you on my six.
(I only hope you fly OKL planes... do you?????) http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/1072.gif

335th_GRAthos <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

lol, I am a out-and-out Mustang jock http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

lol,it seems that u 335th guys only use LW planes and FatboyHK only uses mustang.So I really doubt u will be happy when flying online with FatboyHK on your six,GRAthos.

tjaika1910
03-20-2005, 04:59 AM
I had one of my first rides in a P63 the other day. Seemed like a good ac as long as you kept the speed. A friendly had trouble down low and I decided to help. The friendly had two 109s on his six and did no manouver that could help me helping. The cannon on the P63 was really powerful and shaked the ac intensily. Somehow I managed to down both on his tail but the last cannonshot hit my friendly... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/1072.gif

All three went down and the friendly probably had no idea what had really happend.

The morale is: sometimes the good intension is present but not the skill http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif

1.JaVA_Razer
03-20-2005, 05:54 AM
Sory my frend but the Quote from ExtremeOne in my sig say's it all http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

pacettid
03-20-2005, 05:58 AM
"Team work on your typical DF Server" is an oxymoron...if you want teamwork join a squadron....that is why I don't fight on any DF servers but my squads.

F19_Ob
03-20-2005, 06:32 AM
Sometimes people act funny.
It can be hard to understand situations online so I always suggest my mates to record tracks so they can watch an unclear event later and in detail.

I often help friendlies and put myself at great risks. I never count on getting the same help from unknown though since I never know the skill-level of the one I helped and I dont know how damaged he might be.

----------------

A tip for helpers could be

If u are going to help, do it fast. Dont save ammo or try to achieve the perfect position to shoot, or it will be too late.
Sometimes an inaccurate spray can make the enemy to disengage and U have won.

Never get angry if someone fails in helping u.
Normally people do the best the situation permits ans sometimes the best one can do just isn't enough.
It's even good to say; thank you for trying to help, and thus creating a good atmosphere and ground for following teamefforts.

a few thoughts.

FatBoyHK
03-20-2005, 07:47 AM
Someone give away his advantage to help you, and you should in turn help him back... It is not teamwork, teamwork is more than that. It is just a simple sense of honor and respect, and a basic understanding of what is right and what is wrong to do.

FatBoyHK
03-20-2005, 08:00 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tjaika1910:
The morale is: sometimes the good intension is present but not the skill http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

My boss always tell me, altitute is more important then skill. If you really try hard to help, but failed, everyone will give you a big S!.

If you are not sure about what to do, hook on the comms. People are more than happy to give you instruction. By instruction, I mean not the general way to fly, but call for action such as "break left, now!!" and "you are clear, turn back to engage!!". Very soon, you will have a general idea of what to do in what situation.

RAF74_Poker
03-21-2005, 09:40 AM
Fatboy ... (and any others).
Since my Squad doesn't seem to fly much except training nights, I've taken to flying Zeke's & Wildcats ... BUT... I'd be happy to team up on TS w/ anyone and fly wingie.

I'm kinda new, and certainly not an ace, but starting to become less of a target drone. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

If you see me online and want to team work .... let me know a TS ip.

~S!~
Poker

gates123
03-21-2005, 10:04 AM
I find no greater satisfaction in this sim then to save someone flying in the weeds on the brink of death. Then to hear a simple THX! when its all over. I can now be sure they'll at least give an effort to help if things were reversed.

TgD Thunderbolt56
03-21-2005, 10:13 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by F19_Ob:
Sometimes people act funny.
It can be hard to understand situations online so I always suggest my mates to record tracks so they can watch an unclear event later and in detail. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good idea. It really does work http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>A tip for helpers could be

If u are going to help, do it fast. Dont save ammo or try to achieve the perfect position to shoot, or it will be too late.
Sometimes an inaccurate spray can make the enemy to disengage and U have won.

Never get angry if someone fails in helping u.
Normally people do the best the situation permits ans sometimes the best one can do just isn't enough.
It's even good to say; thank you for trying to help, and thus creating a good atmosphere and ground for following teamefforts.

a few thoughts. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Well-said ob. There are many times when I bleed all advantage to help someone in dire straights that only seems to want to corkscrew around. I realize they're desperately trying to stay alive, but the roundy-round is NOT the answer most times.

I think most people don't drag properly because they lack the trust in the friendly trying to clear them. As ob stated, oftentimes a small squirt of mg is enough to let the bad guy know you're back there and he'll break off. There are times when the baddy might even have an advantage and the tracer grazing his pit is enough to make him sacrifice his advantage.

I've seen exceptional teamwork from my squad as well as others in coops and DF rooms. It mostly depends on communication. If I have a bandit "in-the-bag" and a friendly shoots over my shoulder when the bad guys' controls are out and he's smoking, I'll get aggravated. I hate having to waste ammo to get that last strike in for the positive confirmation on the kill. In fact, I rarely do it. People need to realize that an occassional indiscretion can be forgiven, but we usually have 4-6 people on coms on our channel and if someone is practicing questionable behavior (though it doesn't warrant getting kicked) everyone on coms will know who that person is and just may not get that little bit of help when they need it.

On the other hand, if there are three of us tagteaming a pair and we all get strikes...well, that's just good teamwork. I know the difference.


TB

WOLFMondo
03-21-2005, 10:19 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by pacettid:
"Team work on your typical DF Server" is an oxymoron...if you want teamwork join a squadron....that is why I don't fight on any DF servers but my squads. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If the DF server has a TS server then you can get teamwork going. Just takes some peope to start talking, passing over useful information, working together.

Diablo310th
03-21-2005, 11:33 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by p1ngu666:
theres also the classic, u zooming down, all ALL hes gotta do is some gentle turns, and ull blast enemy
him
ill break turn my (pick heavy plane) against the guys better turning plane, while pingu, in his p38, cant help me anymore, cos he can hardly move http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

best one ive come across, as a example to others, was 361st (now 318th) kasaynda bnzin a ai that was chaising me, we both had no ammo, but he was still trying to shake him off me http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

think ice, and others have done similer, and i have too, but that one just sticks in my mind http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That reminds me of a time a TA 152 jumped a buddy on WC and I was out of ammo. The only thing I could do help was fly on his tail and make him think. I ended up flying so close (since we were on theh deck) that he flew straight into the water. That was the old submerine map. Now that was fun. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

FatBoyHK
03-22-2005, 07:10 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Diablo310th:
That reminds me of a time a TA 152 jumped a buddy on WC and I was out of ammo. The only thing I could do help was fly on his tail and make him think. I ended up flying so close (since we were on theh deck) that he flew straight into the water. That was the old submerine map. Now that was fun. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You may try to cut his wing by your vertical stablizer, I tried that several time, works greeeat http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

iroseland
03-22-2005, 11:13 AM
I just started playing on Hyperlobby. So I am still pretty new. I only started after doing alot of reading on the forms. As I figured that I could see what was acceptable behavior and avoid making an fool of myself. So, I have managed to go on and crash a number of times.. Finally I get into the air and get to the fight, take out an enemy only to get shot down by one of my own, who was chasing the same guy from behind me. Then, last night I shoot up a 109 and see the flames, that plane is going only one place so I figure no problem, I will move on to t a fresher target.. My guns run out and now I am in trouble, the only one around who could help is busy chasing my previous 109 to the ground.. I might still only be really good at getting myself shot down, but I will no be making up for my lack of skill by shooting up freindlys, or by being a vulture, and I will always do what my ammo, speed and turning will allow me to clear someone elses 6.

FatBoyHK
03-22-2005, 11:35 AM
God speed you, iroseland, with your altitude you will be a great pilot soon. Hope you will always fly for the Allied http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

reverendkrv1972
03-22-2005, 12:09 PM
I've encountered quite a bit of teamplay on DF servers,though I've only been back into the virtual skies a short while(after a 4 year-ish break,since cfs2).
I have no qualms about abandoning a target to save a team-mate,and have done many a time,for it to be aknowledged is good,but having said guy return the favour is better.

then there are the times like this example..

I'm in a P-40,got into a scrap with a spit...make a bodge of it,he ends up chasing me,so I head for a group of 4-5 of my team-mates who are chasing one smoker...typing HELP! in chat as I approach them...not one of them noticed the easy kill on my 6,after 2 attempts to give one of them the spit on a plate,I pointed the nose up to let the spit finish me...*sigh*

I tend to go find another furball,in another server when the bullies in their ki-84c's start jumping my kills after I've spent time & ammo beating them up,I try not to let it get to me http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Regards,

Rev

sambar
03-22-2005, 01:13 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FatBoyHK:

2/3 of my death are from friendly fire, geez... from this I can really conclude that Friendly are more dangerous than bogies...

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The answer is simple, FBHK: change sides, then you will be shot down only 1/3 of the times by friendlies, not 2/3 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I always found it more easy to shoot someone down who is on my teammate's 6, than someone who is trying to get on mine. Less work and you kill two rabbits with one shot. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

sambar

FatBoyHK
03-22-2005, 09:43 PM
sambar, lol, you mean I go to fly blue but still treat myself as a red? Then I will be kicked really soon due to teamkilling :P

LBR_W.Zellot
03-22-2005, 10:16 PM
I always try to save friendlies, but sometimes they just won't get that you are trying to save them and will still turn with the Yaks...

Fw190 is great for friend-saving.. fast, good controls and lots of guns http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Not to mention that it is very easy to down an enemy that is chasing a friendly... with good positioning he will never know what hit him.

Few days ago I was in GG @ the stalingrad map, and a fellow Fw190 was being chased by a La-5. I chased the La-5 with all the mightiness of my BMW 801 hoping to get close enough on time (if the bogey ain't firing, I tend not to fire until I get REAL close... If the enemy fires, I fire too to shake him off)
Then another La-5 forms up with me, and chase the Fw190 side by side with me. Eventyallu the La-5 was with more E and gets to the Fw190, adn starts firing. I open fire in response, buts the wing of one of then, the other makes a split S, i follow, he blacks out and I bust him too.

That is a great example of something I would NEVER be able to do alone, but the consciousness of the Fw190 flyer and mine willingness to help him granted him his live, granted me 2 kills and knocked 2 greedy russians off the sky... everyone wins.

Every LW pilot that is http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

ImpStarDuece
03-22-2005, 10:37 PM
At the moment helping friendlies in trouble it situation dependent for me. Which is sad, because it actually used to be that I would compulsively attempt to help people out who were in trouble.

When I started online flying (not that long ago) I would attempt to set up easy kills by 'riding' a bandit. Going for passes that had minimal chance of scoring hits but made the other guy notice me and not whoever else was around. It was dangerous, fun and risky and I got shot down more than a few times before I learnt how to do it correctly.

Pretty soon however I met people who would literally type 'MINE!' into the chat box, trying to claim a kill even before a shot had been fired. Even guys who were in trouble. I rembember scraping a lightly smoking 190 off a Mustang and having the pony driver call me a kill stealer. The less competitive (read less realistic) servers are better but still there are guys out there that believe they have the right to any and all kills in their visual range.

So my current Modus Operandi is twofold. First, if I see a team mate engaging a target and there are no obvious threats to me or him I will gain alt and orbit the fight, interdicting interlopers ot helping him out if he gets in trouble. otherwise I will simply go for other threats.

Secondly, I am prodominantly a B'n'Z pilot. Half of the time (or 90% of the time on a 'airquake' server) I find myself 1500m above the action and usually able to pick and choose my engagements at will. So, if I am unoccupied and I then see someone in trouble I will zoom down on the guy on his six and give him quick squirt. If it goes well I will either scare him off, provoke a silly move or damage/destroy his plane. I will not stick around though. My responsibility is to get back up to altitude and be ready to defend myself against other threats that are around. Having two pilots low and slow is just an excuse for a pilot of a turner to collect us both.

VFA-195 Snacky
03-23-2005, 01:29 AM
SA- Situational Awareness

Some have it and some don't. My decision to help someone depends on certain factors.

80% of the folks who play this sim are complete morons. I try to stick with the other 20%.

If I am cruising along at 20,000ft and you dive your plane into a swarm of anti-gravity spits at 50ft over thier base, good luck with that and catch on the refly buddy. Seriously don't ask others who are trying to use solid tactics to save your butt and lose thier own plane because you were an idiot with blinders on.

AFJ_Skyghost
03-23-2005, 02:24 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FatBoyHK:
You may try to cut his wing by your vertical stablizer, I tried that several time, works greeeat http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is the kind of spirit we like in AFJ http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

FatBoyHK
03-23-2005, 03:11 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by AFJ_Skyghost:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FatBoyHK:
You may try to cut his wing by your vertical stablizer, I tried that several time, works greeeat http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is the kind of spirit we like in AFJ http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

lol, even I pull it off successfully, 4 out of 5 time I would crash when trying to land http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif

RAF74_Poker
03-23-2005, 09:15 AM
Question, from a noob, so y'all may well be slamming me and I don't know it !

Exactly what are you referring to when you say "disconnect" ??

DO you mean, actually leave the server ? or do you mean they hit escape and then refly ?

If it's is the former ... not guilty
If the latter ... then I'm probably guilty.
Once my plane is dead, and I have bailed out or are dead ... I hit escape to refly.
Should I wait until the plane has hit the ground before reflying ?

I was unaware this made a difference ... and I in no way intended to cheat if this is the case.
Same w/ parachutes - I do not shoot parachutes, will not shoot parachutes, and expect not to be shot in my chute! I usually hit refly when I do bail out - am I taking away from your scores ?

If so I will wait until I hit the ground before respawning.

IF this is the problem, I will make sure I don't refly until the carcasses have hit the deck. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I guess the question is ... once dead or bailed out .. when can I hit escape and respawn ?

Again .. if what I've been doing until now is considered cheating .. I apologize ... just let me know the correct thing to do. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

FatBoyHK
03-23-2005, 09:42 AM
Poker, "Disconnect" is to leave the game intentionally to deny your opponent a certain / potential kill.

If someone disconnect
1. when he is under attack,
2. after he is being shot up badly
3. when he lose control of his plane
4. just before he crash
he can be considered as a disconnector

The correct thing to do is 1) to bail out and hit "refly". If you like, it is even better 2)to do it after you plane hit the ground. The best way to do is 3) to wait until your virtual pilot reach the ground

All three ways will give your opponent a "correct" kill credit. 1) is considered cheating by some player, because you can bail out at 50ft, and hit refly immediately, your pilot will not be killed. But I think it is ok, I think the well-being of your pilot is none of my business, I have got my fun (by shooting your plane down) already. On the other hand, 3) may take so long, may be more than 5 minutes, therefore it is really optional.

RAF74_Poker
03-23-2005, 09:52 AM
OK, I only "disconnect" when I'm dead (black screen of death !), bailed out, or crashed into the ground. In all 3 cases .. the pilot who shot me down should get the kill correct ?

The last 2 are pretty easy .. bailed out and crashed into the round are pretty definitive in that you are shot down.
I guess if I die in plane, then I will wait to see if the plane finally crashes .. although it does seem to just freeze at the black screen when you get killed.

And, for the record, I agree with you ..... once the plane is flaming or crashing ... the others can have the final shot to get the points.
I'll shoot in tandem w/ someone else to bring the enemy down ... that's what it's about to me.
I'm sure the point hawks might think I'm trying to take their kill, but really it's about knocking the enemy down and moving on to the next one. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

GUARD4000
03-23-2005, 10:04 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FatBoyHK:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by AFJ_Skyghost:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FatBoyHK:
You may try to cut his wing by your vertical stablizer, I tried that several time, works greeeat http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is the kind of spirit we like in AFJ http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

lol, even I pull it off successfully, 4 out of 5 time I would crash when trying to land http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
FatboyHK,u need some practise.I can land successfully as long as I still have my elevators.In fact I can still fight if I only lose rudder or ailerons.If both of them or elevators are gone,things are much more difficult.I usually bail out to avoid a death,because I often crash when trying to land.

FatBoyHK
03-23-2005, 10:09 AM
never disconnect before your plane hit the ground, otherwise the game will not count it as a kill for your opponent. Even you got a PKed, or have already bailed out, you should click refly....... or if you really need to leave the game, you need to do it after your plane hit the ground.

and you should not go after a wounded enemy if there is a friendly on his six already. It is danngerous because you two may end up collide with each other. You may also "steal" his kill, and it is not a good thing to do. Don't go to "help" unless it is really needed. You can be much more helpful if you stay above them and provide top cover. In that way, if the enmey turned the table, or another bandits come in, you can offer help immediately.

FatBoyHK
03-23-2005, 10:21 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GUARD4000:
FatboyHK,u need some practise.I can land successfully as long as I still have my elevators.In fact I can still fight if I only lose rudder or ailerons.If both of them or elevators are gone,things are much more difficult.I usually bail out to avoid a death,because I often crash when trying to land. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Haha, Guard, "missing a control" and "missing a wing" is two different things http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Usually I can land without aileron control, but if you lose one of the three stablizer wings at your tail, it is way more difficult http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif Even I can make a perfect touch down, the plane will roll to one side, and there is nothing I can do to stop that.

It is quite strange... I don't think the damage my plane suffered would have such a heavy effect on the plane's overall aerodynamics..... especially when I am I am already below 100 MPH.... you know, drag is proportional to speed.... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

RAF74_Poker
03-23-2005, 10:24 AM
Ah, the "disconnect" word again ... I meant ESC/Refly, not actually disconnecting. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

JG27_Aristo
03-23-2005, 10:29 AM
in reading pokers post by disconnect he is referring to hitting refly in his case which is ok.poker by disconnect fatboy meant actually quitting the game itself ie..back to desktop.
hitting refly after you are shot up does not rob a pilot of his kill.

karost
03-26-2005, 04:01 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CyC_AnD:
From my experience most of guys who play this sim from old il2 are much more honorable, teamworking, thinking during flying and friendly.
....

When i was hosting in past, i had always put a message into brief: teamwork is very welcome! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Hope to see more people flying planes, not just flying around for a kill http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

S! to all teamworkers, honourable and kind pilotS! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I agree that http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Three years for online play with old hands friends ... every decision that we made are made by automatic ( experience ) very hard to telling in details what to do or when to do or How to do... on dynamic situation.

When we saw a (light of) gun fire, then we read and scan a situation, plot a strategy from the position that we stay and have made more fast action.


After playing more and more time you will see the way to improve your decision to help or not to help (your guys)

when you fly with your friends ( same experience but did not know each other close ) and you decide to make "help" and your bad experience from today will tell you what to do or what not to do. And your friends who stay on troubles also know that what he has to do to make nice drag-bag for you... ( if you choose a right guys to help and he know how to play with you. ) http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif


As CyC_AnD said "flying around for a kill..." is a bad objective for team player now.... new friends forget to respect to each other ( including opponent side ) and looking only one thing .... That is a "kill score"

This objective will make a learning curve so low... and avoid to improve a good decision framework.

JG27_Dacripler
03-26-2005, 01:43 PM
When you have Aristo on your 6, you might as well push refly because you are not going anywhere from him..

Von_Rat
03-26-2005, 03:06 PM
ive shot up many a plane whose pilot bailed and hit refly immediatly, i still got kill.

NorrisMcWhirter
03-27-2005, 08:42 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FatBoyHK:
....then do the same for the other first, instead of thinking about your stats only...

It happened to me two times today. I risked myself to save a friendly in trouble. Crippled the bad guy at his six, trailing black smoke, should be dead in any monment. At this time another bad guy came in, and it was me who is in trouble now....

The guy whom I saved, clearly see what was happening. But instead of trying to save me, he went for the crippled plane.... When I die, I heard he reported his kill on TS happily... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif

I know I should never expect tight teamwork on a DF server.... But at least, I expect people with some basic sense of honor. Moreover, it is much more fun to fly together, saving each others, and achieving mission objectives, than merely blasting all over the place for points. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Easy solution. Fly co-ops.

I'm always surprised that people are surprised that they get little or no teamwork in DF servers.

As it happens, I was in UK-Dedicated this morning and the level of teamwork was fantastic but that's all too rare.

Cheers,
Norris

widgeon
03-27-2005, 09:13 AM
After bailing, I will hit refly ASAP.

Ive been shot in my chute way too many times to hang around and watch my plane hit the ground.

As Von Rat says, the kill will still be awarded properly.

Widgeon

SeaNorris
03-27-2005, 09:20 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by widgeon:
After bailing, I will hit refly ASAP.

Ive been shot in my chute way too many times to hang around and watch my plane hit the ground.

As Von Rat says, the kill will still be awarded properly.

Widgeon <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

People think they get points for shooting your pilot lol.

widgeon
03-27-2005, 09:25 AM
Is that what it is?

I thought they were just waankers. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Widgeon

LStarosta
03-27-2005, 09:25 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Stiglr:
I think we've ALL seen this on online dogfights.

Sometimes, I get the feeling that the guy I'm trying to help is so clueless, he doesn't even know I'm there. Instead of setting up a good shot for me, he flies directly back towards me, making it as hard for me to get a shot on his bogie as the bogie that's chasing him. Or he keeps making the tightest possible turn.

I've learned that, some people can't be helped. I certainly won't dive into a situation where one idiot on the deck has "surrounded himself" with 3 or 4 enemy. All I'm going to do is add to their kill bag if I intervene. (And, in many dogfight server situations, people chasing kills don't care about their own safety, and even if you make a quick spraying pass to try and scare them off, they'll stay on their "kill" until the very end, even if it means they die 5 seconds later). And, if the situation above materializes, where the guy I'm trying to save is making it harder for me to help him, and the risk to my own plane becomes too great (because I'm burning energy and spending too much time down low trying to clear someone who's thwarting my efforts), I'll wave "good luck" to him and climb out.

But, if you care about such things have a look at these http://www.naysayers.com/9jg52/dragandbag.htm. You'll learn how NOT to drag, and how to actually help somebody save your own @ss. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Stiglr... It's not a bogie anymore when he's firing on a friendly...

We aces like to call those guys bandits......

SeaNorris
03-27-2005, 09:27 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by widgeon:
Is that what it is?

I thought they were just waankers. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Widgeon <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

holy **** how could i forget. you are right there lol

JerryFodder
03-27-2005, 10:32 AM
Call me old fashioned but first thing i'll do when this happens to me is type a 'friendly' message to the tosspot that left me in deep doodoo. If I die I simply take off, find him and get in real close for some blue on blue lol That gets them well pished off!

I don't care a jot for points anyway.

BigKahuna_GS
03-27-2005, 12:56 PM
S!


Zeke vs Wildcat is a good server were generally your wingmate will look out for you. At least on the Allied side of things. I always try to help the guy in trouble.



____