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Assaultmachine1
06-28-2007, 12:32 PM
The new GTA IV trailer is now up, so if you want to see it, go to one of these links:

http://www.gamespot.com/video/0/6173289/videoplayerpop?

http://www.rockstargames.com/IV/trailer_splash.html

Also, feel free to mention what you thought of the trailer itself.

I would like to say that I'm very impressed with the new trailer. It shows us that the helicopters and motorbikes will definitely be in the game. The graphics look so amazing. In addition, the mission with the lady in the trailer looks interesting as well as when the SWAT team is moving in. Niko Bellic, the main character of the game, is seen firing a heavy weapon (I forgot which one it was) and the cops are chasing him through a certain part of the game. An interior of a building is viewed in the trailer and the Broker Bridge, supposedly known as the Brooklyn Bridge in NYC, is seen where Niko is cruising in a Stallion and makes his way to a toll gate. Just about everything in this trailer and the song, which I found at an article, is the Shy Child remix of "Arm in Arm" from NYC-based indie band the The Boggs playing in the background. However, it's too bad for the planes. Although the planes are gone, we can still expect a lot from this game with the new things that it is said to feature. And Dan Houser, the Creative VP at Rockstar Games, says that Rockstar North is trying to make GTA IV have the greatest crime story of the 21st century as well as giving us the high definition experience of how much the game will handle the graphics, gameplay, and every other aspect of the game.

Assaultmachine1
06-28-2007, 12:32 PM
The new GTA IV trailer is now up, so if you want to see it, go to one of these links:

http://www.gamespot.com/video/0/6173289/videoplayerpop?

http://www.rockstargames.com/IV/trailer_splash.html

Also, feel free to mention what you thought of the trailer itself.

I would like to say that I'm very impressed with the new trailer. It shows us that the helicopters and motorbikes will definitely be in the game. The graphics look so amazing. In addition, the mission with the lady in the trailer looks interesting as well as when the SWAT team is moving in. Niko Bellic, the main character of the game, is seen firing a heavy weapon (I forgot which one it was) and the cops are chasing him through a certain part of the game. An interior of a building is viewed in the trailer and the Broker Bridge, supposedly known as the Brooklyn Bridge in NYC, is seen where Niko is cruising in a Stallion and makes his way to a toll gate. Just about everything in this trailer and the song, which I found at an article, is the Shy Child remix of "Arm in Arm" from NYC-based indie band the The Boggs playing in the background. However, it's too bad for the planes. Although the planes are gone, we can still expect a lot from this game with the new things that it is said to feature. And Dan Houser, the Creative VP at Rockstar Games, says that Rockstar North is trying to make GTA IV have the greatest crime story of the 21st century as well as giving us the high definition experience of how much the game will handle the graphics, gameplay, and every other aspect of the game.

Driverman2006
06-28-2007, 02:44 PM
Better than the first I have to say.http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif I sure hope the next trailer reveals more. More things like characters, vehicles, weapons, gameplay, etc.


I don't mean to go off topic, but R* announced that they're coming out with a new Midnight Club game. It'll be called "Midnight Club: Los Angeles" for the PS3 and XBOX 360. I think it'll be awesome!

Symantecus
06-29-2007, 03:46 AM
Get that GTA **** off the Driver forums! Post it in a GTA forums. That's just disrespectful to the developers of DRIVER and an abuse of the Driver forum ---

OFF-TOPIC! CUT THE ****!

Fred_DM
06-29-2007, 06:27 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Symantecus:
Get that GTA **** off the Driver forums! Post it in a GTA forums. That's just disrespectful to the developers of DRIVER and an abuse of the Driver forum ---

OFF-TOPIC! CUT THE ****! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

and your Mafia signature isn't?

Driver and GTA are competitors in the free-roaming action genre. there will always be comparisons between the two titles. and there should be.

Assaultmachine1
06-29-2007, 09:19 AM
Excuse me, Symantecus, but I noticed that when Driver still didn't have its own forum that there were GTA threads for it too and they got accepted in to the Driver forum (after it was made) along with the driver threads, so it means that it would be alright to post another topic of it here.

If you don't like the GTA games, then don't post in this thread because that means you're trolling around, making the discussion worse of a topic.

And yes, both Rockstar North's GTA franchise and Reflections' Driver franchise are the major competitors in the free-roaming genre because they were the ones longest around in this genre. I think that they both have one of the best talents of a game developer, but Reflections needs to change their approach in the Driver franchise to make sure that it gets better because the Driver games are no longer better than the first two and going back to the old times would only limit the gameplay more, so my Multiple Career concept is what needs to make it in to the next game along with a lot of on-foot exploration and interaction, and customization for having your own character. Also, the realism needs to be that much better than most games, especially GTA IV since some of the aspects will not be realistic at all.

Symantecus
06-29-2007, 11:30 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">and your Mafia signature isn't? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That is a banner from my movie, which includes Mafia, X3, The Sims, MS Flight Sim and about a dozen other games...INCLUDING Driver 3.

Symantecus
06-29-2007, 11:33 AM
I like GTA, but one of the problems with GTA is the obsessed fan-base and tilted reviewers.

Drive 3 was downplayed and low-rated while GTA was up-played and high rated, even though Driver 3 had it's own charm and meticulously crafted cities which were totally overlooked by the reviewers as if Reflections had done nothing more than Clone GTA.

That pisses me off, because it's total BS, and Driver 3 failed to get the sales it deserved because of these GTA fanatic-reviewers.

That's why I have a bad taste for GTA related post in the Driver forum.

Assaultmachine1
06-29-2007, 01:42 PM
I understand, but with the next-gen Driver games that will be coming soon, I'm thinking that Reflections will find the right ideas and concept for their games, which will be enough to compete heavily with that of Rockstar North's GTA franchise. After all, Ubisoft didn't buy the franchise for nothing. It was to turn it in to something that possibly even Atari couldn't make use of and considering the fact that the Driver games have sold over 14-15 million units worldwide, it is a very big bargain to make with Reflections to be as a part of it.

I believe the fact that D3 failed was because Reflections couldn't make the best use of their time in development of the game. Instead of doing a Run the Gauntlet and spending money on making the cutscenes look so many more times better (they did the same in DPL), they should have spent all that time on leaving room for improving the game itself. It was a very bad move for Reflections to make and the commercial advertising wasn't very good either, so these are the reasons why D3 didn't stumble upon becoming a great game. It is in no ways a KGC (Killer Game Concept) because it didn't deliver in terms of what a game is able to push limits of the systems' hardware and software and nor did it do that well in sales either.

Symantecus
06-29-2007, 03:58 PM
Don't be foolish. A game's life is only as long as it continues to sell. A game has high sales based on reviews. As long as the reviewers conspire to destroy Driver I want no part of their BS and PAID PROMOTION FOR GTA as they attempt to destroy all competitors.

If they want to do this, fine, but as a consumer...I DON'T PLAY THAT GAME.

Let GTA stuff be posted in a GTA forum. This is not the place.

InsaneDriver06
06-30-2007, 11:02 AM
Thanks for the Gamespot link.

I think it's a step from the more cartoony look of past GTA games; good move.

Now we'll have to wait and see what kind of game Reflections presents for the next Driver. Hopefully, it's open world with on foot at the very least.

Assaultmachine1
06-30-2007, 11:23 AM
Actually, you're wrong, Symantecus. The good games aren't always the ones that sell good. If you don't know about a game called The Chronicles of Riddick: Escape From Butcher Bay, it came out for the Xbox and PC in 2004. It was the most amazing experience for a FPS game according to how well it got the reviews and it was not in any way as bad as the movie. Thank god. I even played it myself. The technology of this game, with its graphics and sound, this game is perhaps the most powerful Xbox game ever created because it basically is the best looking Xbox game and had outrageous shooter, hand-to-hand, and stealth elements as well as a very nice, but short story with great characters that is known to be one of the best by those who've played it. Unfortunately, it had only sold over several hundred thousand units, not being able to reach 1 million.

The same thing happened to games like Project Snowblind, Beyond Good And Evil, Psychonauts, and many others, which were great games, but didn't sell well at all. Therefore, I made my point that it is not always the good games that make the most money. Other times, even the worst games can make more money if a good game doesn't sell well. The reason why these games didn't sell very well is probably because of their date of release and the fact that their commercial advertising wasn't good enough for many to look at. And if you haven't noticed, none of these titles have gotten a sequel because of this, but even without one, these are some really remarkable games to play (I've even played Project Snowblind for the Xbox when I rented it and it was awesome).

Rockstar North is really smart at commercializing their games and Reflections certainly wasn't with the Run The Gauntlet movie for Driv3r because you know want? Despite the fact that Driv3r had been given a short movie, cutscenes that had awesome graphics, and a commercial, it didn't do well and I'd have to say the blame must go for how they went to spend their budget. Do you know about the different processes of approaching to begin development management for a game? There are processes like the Cerny Method, Organic Process, Vertical Slice, and among several others. There are advantages and dissadvantages for each of these methods. The Cerny Method is by Cerny, a person who is still working in the Video Game Industry, starting out on the Atari and is known for making today's games, which are the Ratchet & Clank games (he also helped with Spryo The Dragon series) and he advises to scrap the 80% of your least important stuff of your game and leave the other 20% of the best work for you, so if you had 80 levels, you would need to scrap them all and only leave the best 20. Because the Cerny Method is a boon to some alternative game developers and a headache to others, it is still being debated. The organic process is a way of new ideas and game features being experimented with and implemented in any time during the course of development, and the game design documentation remains fluid. It is sometimes referred to as watershed development. In the organic process, there is no clear demarcation between the proproduction and production stages of the game design life cycle. Another method, called rapid iterative prototyping is when the game development is once again very fluid: any new idea is added as quickly as possible and then polished later. The polishing is based on what works, what does not work, and what is a priority to chang. This process was created by the industry legend Sid Meier, who believes that getting a game concept or kernel up and running as soon as possible (even using stick-figure graphics) is important to show game publishers that your Killer Game Concept can work--and (most importantly) will work! The Vertical Slice process is about having to create a game demo or prototype of the game to see what needs to be worked more upon. New features and ideas come after the demo and the disadvantage of this is that it is been shown to slow down development.

My point to you about these different game development processes is that Reflections didn't use any of these methods the right way for Driv3r. However, they did show off the Vertical Slice method in DPL because they made a demo of it for the fans, which only excited us a bit more. Now I think that what method Rockstar North most likely uses is the Organic Process because they continue to grow with more new ideas for their GTA franchise and this has been a very common process of development management from the early days of the Video Game Industry with games like Super Mario Bros. and Legend of Zelda.

I learned about the different processes and even more that I haven't yet said here from my Offical Guide To 3D Gamestudio book, which teaches you everything you need to know on creating your own game design and concept as well as how to use the 3D Gamestudio for creating your own games for fun or to start off your career in the Video Game Industry.

There is one more thing that I'd like to say about Driv3r and GTA and that's the 4F'sOGGD. The 4F'sOGGD (4 F's of Great Game Design), which is what the author of this book came up with in knowing what a game needs. The 4 F's are Fun, Fairness, Feedback, and Feasibility. I want to make this as short as possible. Fun is to have all the kinds of gameplay that will entertain you for the most part. Fairness is in making sure that the game is not too easy and certainly not too hard, meaning that if you look at an example like Super Mario Kart, its racers slow down when ahead of you, but become faster when behind you. If they were to be super smart and fast throughout the entire race, it would only make it that much harder and that would take a lot out of the player, which would mean that the player wouldn't want to play again. Frustration is what you must avoid in doing for the fairness because while it can give a bigger difficulty for players in challenging them, it can also get people really mad and drop their controllers (like in Stuntman the game), which would then possibly keep them from ever wanting to play again. Therefore, you have to make a game as fair as possible in its gameplay. Feedback is treating the player to something if they are doing what's right and punihsing them for what they did wrong. Lastly, feasibility is to encourage player emersion whenever you can by not adding in features that really add nothing to the game or do not fit with the original game concept. It means that if a sombre horror game about mutants suddenly introduces to the player a switch that, if he pulls it, drops a bunch of brightly colored soda pop machines out of the ceiling to squash all the mutants, the game has choked: this fun little feature has destroyed the original concept and the player's anticipations of the game being a serious horror game.

With these 4F's of great game design, I think that, honestly, Rockstar North has been much more capable of using it for their GTA games than Reflections was able to use it for Driv3r. Driv3r has had some fairness, little fun, good feedback, and some feasibility. Because of not being able to accomplish each of these 4 F's, it hasn't been able to be considered a true original game concept. The GTA games have used all of these 4F's very well and in doing so, have accomplished each of their games very much after GTA III.

Driv3r was a bad move in trying to take GTA VC's gameplay and to only end up turning it upside down. There was just too little for you to do on-foot and when driving that made it a pain in the ***. Even DPL did not accomplish the ways of the GTA games yet, but maybe with the PS3 and other 7th generation consoles, Reflections will find the right concept (the Multiple Career concept), and many good ways to help the on-foot, realism, and replay value of the Driver games.

InsaneDriver06
07-15-2007, 02:17 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
...Driv3r was a bad move in trying to take GTA VC's gameplay and to only end up turning it upside down. There was just too little for you to do on-foot and when driving that made it a pain in the ***. Even DPL did not accomplish the ways of the GTA games yet, but maybe with the PS3 and other 7th generation consoles, Reflections will find the right concept (the Multiple Career concept), and many good ways to help the on-foot, realism, and replay value of the Driver games. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That was an epic length post, you must be a fast typer. I can type about 50 words per second when looking at the monitor. Not looking, it takes longer.

As far as the 4F's, yes, developers should consider many facets that make a game great before shipping it off or even starting it.

Hopefully, the new Driver will allow on foot, but expand the possiblities and vehicle interaction in the game world/city beyond what we've already seen in other games, even GTA.

Assaultmachine1
07-20-2007, 01:40 PM
I am glad that you understand, InsaneDriver06. I hope that Symantecus also understood when he read my post. Driver must do its best to follow the 4F's OGDD, offering the best driving, realism, and on-foot while also making sure to sell well, so if it's a good game, it won't turn out like those good games that didn't sell well at all.

InsaneDriver06
07-20-2007, 07:33 PM
Agreed. The 4F's keep the quality of games in check. Good suggestions.

-----
Relating to the GTA4 game, I just learned from the September 2007 issue of XBOX Official Magazine:

"...If you like, sit back and experience the thrill of a taxi ride in real time, from a first-person view in the back seat." XBOX Page 49. Or you could just warp to any destination with a button press.

That's a feature I've been waiting to see in a game, and GTA4 delivers. Hopefully, the new DRIVER will offer the same kinds of driving related opportunities, but not only let us be a passenger, but many other innovative ideas to bring us into the game world.

Assaultmachine1
07-21-2007, 01:22 PM
It will be extremely dissapointing for Reflections to create another Driver game that focuses too much on the GTA formula. I certainly hope that Reflections will suddenly release a great deal of new and innovative ideas that will really help bring a new level to the driving seen in any kind of games that involves driving. GTA IV is really pushing things forward in realism and freedom that it is really hard to tell how much more work the other free-roaming games can get done in their efforts to innovative and push the formula of free-roaming deeper after each new GTA game that is released, which will not likely be the case for most of the free-roaming games. However, I do think that Reflections looks a better future for its team and that they will be able to get so much more done than they could ever have envisioned along any point of the Driver franchise whether its was in the beginning or even later, in the 6th generation.

InsaneDriver06
07-22-2007, 07:45 AM
I want to see the new Driver take the lead in Driving innovations and new gameplay ideas, much like GTA will improve with its on foot gameplay options. But I do hope Driver doesn't forget the importance of going on foot.

Assaultmachine1
07-23-2007, 10:28 PM
Me too. And the on-foot, for now, should only focus on having many abilities that will be able to have you easily get past enemies as well as get to explore the different parties of the locations in the game in so many different ways. Also, I hope for a greater weapon variety, especially if there will be the careers of a gangster and undercover cop included in the game as only a few of the careers that offer on-foot. If this Driver game pushes the driving and on-foot to new heights with more innovations and realism, I hope that the Driver game after this will offer even way more things for you to do that weren't seen in this upcoming Driver game, especially if it means for more to do on-foot than just kill and explore.

InsaneDriver06
07-24-2007, 06:00 PM
GTA will have in-game access to a computer that can surf a virtual internet in the game itself, talking on a cell phone and more, all in line with the GTA theme of total freedom and on-foot activities.

I hope Driver doesn't go to that extreme however, speaking of "in game internet", which has little or nothing to do with Driving action, which the main character should always be working towards, on foot by collecting parts, exploring for hidden vehicles, etc. Not surfing the net in the game, which might get stale like the weight lifting and eating in GTA tends to be.

Anti_Ship_Fella
08-04-2007, 02:07 PM
heh they moved the GTA 4 release date to 2008 from undisclosed reasons

InsaneDriver06
08-05-2007, 08:11 AM
Gamestop said March 2008 for GTA4, delayed for improving the loading, streaming, graphics for the 360 and PS3 versions, and likely to complete the 50 million dollar 360 side story download on time.

JacksonL2007
08-06-2007, 03:32 PM
I personally think GTA has lead the way for a bit to long. Driver was no competition since GTA releaed GTA3. I think Driver really REAALLY need to push it forward. Everytime the always leave you with an incomplete feeling, even in Driver PL the second half of the storyline was so boaring. I mean kill everyone was not exactly something they spent all night coming up with. GTA are huge now a days. Driver need to make a game that is so close to life that no one can expand on it. As for GTA's in game computer I came up with an idea like that a good 2 years ago. And the same thing with the phone. Theres so much detail they can put into it now. Someone needs to just go for a drive with a note book and note down all the details they can think of. Same should be done for the on foot mode. I beleive in doing that they will lose the incomplete feeling of series