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View Full Version : OT well relates to games but not to this game



Acunnon
10-14-2005, 04:27 PM
I was wondering around the net as i often do when I came across this. http://gc.advancedmn.com/article.php?artid=5883

I though a few people here might get a laugh out of it, that guy has gone so far off the deep end he is not even in the pool any more.

W.Irving
10-14-2005, 04:41 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif

1. Would love to see the game.
2. I think the bloke's got a point.

ILikePortillos
10-14-2005, 05:22 PM
Just my 2 cents here. . .violent video games don't make violent people. I've been playing violent video games (and other games of course) for over a decade, and I've never even been in a fight.

These people aren't working with a full deck. I think if you did some research, you'd find other indicaters that they'd eventually become violent offenders. Violence at home, neglect, even chemical imbalance. DON'T ask their family members. They never have a clue.

Maj_Solo
10-14-2005, 05:56 PM
Violent viedo games does not make you violent period. But, if you have problems in your life and something really really pisses you off, you see no hope of anything geting better or anyone understanding you, and you are turned into a psychopat by the rest of society and you feel like "expressing you anger", in that case, you've been trained and you know what to do. And you might not stop until you run out of supplies. Then they might describe it as they realised what they done and then killed themselves. I say no, it was a suicide mission from the start, only they belong to people who will not just sit down and die, before they do they want payback. Video games can help in this. But so will Hollywood movies too. Media in general. News programs too reporting other murders. The games don't make people killes but they make it worse and perhaps take away some inhibitors. It might get worse in the future cause now we really have kid that have grown up with games all life. So we see what their next extreme move will be.

Ahopelto
10-14-2005, 07:44 PM
Violence is exciting and interesting. Without it, media would be boring, and almost everyone agrees, except weird people. How many normal people can you name that don't enjoy a story with violence?

Media will never get rid of it, and shouldn't, and people's violent actions shouldn't be blamed on media either. If someone commits a violent act its nobody's fault but their own.

Gunnersman
10-14-2005, 10:37 PM
You know the saying "You are what you eat"?

I dont think video games make people violent either. I dont think you can pin violence on any one thing. I think there is a change in our culture (at least in the US) with an increase in negativity. What you take in, in any form, be it music, tv, food, the people you hang out with, slowly grows on you. And if you do not make any changes to what you take in it will become you. And if those who already are in a bad way continue to take in negativity....well, bad things can happen.

IMHO

Acunnon
10-14-2005, 10:43 PM
I guess to compress it down people who play violent games then commit violent acts using the game as a reason are ****ed up to begin with. Now then if it was not for the fact that it would prove that moron jack thompson right someone should bind & gag the guy and throw him out of a plain at 35 thousand feet with out a parachute. found this crack pots website (http://www.stopkill.com/)

Maj_Solo
10-15-2005, 07:44 AM
I think everything is a long sequence from when you are born. One can get pushed by other people.

My own definition of a psychopat is a person who has been given so much **** or been let down or betrayed or not seen so many many times through the entire life that eventually a switch is flipped in their brain.
After this switch has been flipped they never again believe in other people or that they can give them anything relationship wise or emotionally.
No, the quetion is what the person infront of me can do for me. If they have a relationship they are exploiting the other and then just dump them. Psychopats are weak and hurt and on the run the whole time.
I think being a psychopat not necessarily mean you kill people. I think there are "nice" psychopats.

But if you cross psychopaty with aggressivity then you get a person who wants to hurt and don't care how much. Like stepping on ants on an ant hill.

Take the above + videogame training. The brain is like a muscle, it is trained over time.

Dominicrigg
10-15-2005, 08:13 AM
I would disagree guys.

I mean we can say from our own experience violent video games dont make us violent but you cant speak for everyone.

One way i look at it is when i was a child i used to watch kung fu movies with my friends, then afterwards we would go out and play fight kung fu. We would see movies of explosions and go get tins and throw them on our camp fires and run (beans are funny as! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif) Even now watching football makes me want to go play football more, and watching medieval films makes me want to go get my bow out and mess around and watching Keira Knightly makes me want to... oh wait getting off track.

Who is to say that some people dont see GTA and think, lets go steal a car, lets go beat someone up. Watch MTV ******* and me and you find it amusing if stupid, what about people who want to emulate it as i did with kung fu and film themselves smacking a stranger. I think its highly plausible. But dont think programs/games should be banned because of these people.

People use the argument "people have been doing crazy things before these programs!" but there is no denying seeing murder and rape desensitises you, even in a computer game. Especially in children who are being molded by the activities and experiences they have. Who knows what it can trigger in some individuals?

Yes I know children shouldnt be watching/playing these things, which again is where i put the blame solely at the feet of the parents. In the end parenting is a massive part of the problem. Just a few months ago they were complaining on TV about prostitutes and murder in games, and children being able to see this (GTA Was the game) They never once mentioned the game was an 18 and the parents should maybe have not let their kids play a game like San Andreas with such mad language and themes...

ILikePortillos
10-15-2005, 08:46 AM
Oh, I hear ya. I understand completely. I watch hockey, and then get out with my buddies and play. And we played war as kids too. It was exhilarating. But the main difference was, we weren't trying to hurt each other. We knew the difference between fact and fiction. We never once thought for a moment that we would ever really shoot anyone. We KNEW we were PLAYING. I don't think games have anything to do with murder. These people don't think in terms of other people. They think solely in terms of self. Anything that holds them down is an obstacle to be removed. It's like compassion and understanding never enter the picture.

Now I will say, violent games can probably throw fuel on a fire of a violent person. . .but they didn't MAKE them violent.

Good debate though. This one never gets old.

Acunnon
10-15-2005, 10:54 AM
I think it has something to do with whether or not a person is capable of differentiating between what is real and what is not real. When a kid can not tell the difference, me I place the blame for that on the kids parents family and teachers.

Gunnersman
10-15-2005, 02:16 PM
Good point Dominicrigg. Good points all around.
There is a difference between thinking about doing something and actually doing it. Thats where morays and ethics come in. They create a line. That is why it is important to have common beliefs.
But yes, a persons mental stability is important too. If a person is not "right in the head" everything else goes out the window.

Chrystine
10-15-2005, 05:28 PM
*

All interesting thoughts & views.

Pathology, any pathology is a pretty complicated thing.
What makes a psychopath or sociopath? (Both are obviously mental diseases).
What triggers in an otherwise €˜normal€ psyche some homicidal impulse which is acted upon in a homicidal act?

There simply is no check-list of preconditions and requisite factors for these things. There is at most, a compendium of observed phenomena within which we can observe some similarities and dissimilarities.

At bottom, no one thing will ever produce the sort of pathologies or other mental deviations which lead to violent behaviors, but the latter emerge as effects from a €˜lengthy€ personal history of contributing factors.
The Only way one could honestly and legitimately claim that violent media (any medium) is a €˜contributing factor,€ would be to demonstrate it in a case in which there was a constancy of deprivation of €˜normal experience€ within an individual, owed to extensive focused experience of violent media (virtual or surrogate experience).

Isolate a young boy at age three or so €" lock him in a cellar with nothing but violent TV programming, DVD€s and PC Games until he€s about 16 or 18 €" then let him up and push him out the door and watch what happens.

The problem even here is that this cannot be done (morally, of course, nor) even physically in reality, because even this modality of €˜isolation€ is false.
Along with the conditions which would create such an example, are the realities of deprivations forced into the process of affecting it to begin with.

Nothing is ever as €˜simple€ and straightforward as €œyes, they do contribute€ €" €œno, they don€t contribute.€
Violent Media can be a contributing factor to violent behavior, only when the psyche is already pre-disposed to violence owing to a history of personal-thwarting or cerebral dysfunction & abnormality(ies) independent of violent media.
The manner in which they may contribute is not one of €˜causation€ but of method.
Not whether I should kill and steal, but how best to kill and steal €¦

To that end, the question of the ways in which violent media may be instructional is an altogether separate issue.

Best.
~ C.

*

Acunnon
10-16-2005, 04:31 PM
I wondered how long it would take befire you showed up Chrystine http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

I was hoped at least a couple anti violent game persons would show up but I guess that is unlikly here.


putting it in again
http://gc.advancedmn.com/article.php?artid=5883

Maj_Solo
10-17-2005, 05:18 PM
Teacher teacher !!! (sucking up), do I get an A+ !?!?!!! please please pleasse http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif OK then atleast a B+ ??

Gunnersman
10-17-2005, 09:47 PM
Originally posted by Maj_Solo:
Teacher teacher !!! (sucking up), do I get an A+ !?!?!!! please please pleasse http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif OK then atleast a B+ ??

No, no, no. Thats not sucking up.
Now pay attention...

*Ahem*

Chrystine, you need to write a book. About what? I dont think that matters. Im sure that whatever you put in it will do well.
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Now THAT is sucking up!
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

As you were. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Chrystine
10-17-2005, 10:42 PM
*

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Well, if it€s worth anything to know€¦

In my view & opinion, your reply here was pretty dead-on accurate Solo.
In particular, that you underscored the truth that (particularly in the case of violent) psychopaths / sociopaths are €œ..weak and hurt and on the run€¦€ (very true figuratively even before it may ultimately become a physical condition).
It is a major cue upon which all meaningful theoretical work dealing with such is predicated. Not something that €˜can' be forgotten and overlooked.
You pointed it out so directly and concisely, I saw no need to reiterate the point.

My reply no less than any other also understates the real complexity of the question and issue, by oversimplifying.

There are of course also ways conceivable in which violent media could serve as a causative contributing factor in a more immediate sense.
For instance, one who is €˜teetering€ near the brink of that abyss but who has hitherto been able to hold himself/herself in check and not cross the fateful line (e.g. acting out some violent fantasy, etc). It is certainly conceivable that such a one could watch some violent media of this or that variety and through an €˜enlightenment€ of methodology in which the €˜doing€ is made to appear much easier, more-simple, more-plausible, etc than previously imagined or understood, could be led by that experience to cross that line and enter the abyss.
Then the question is €" as usual for such €" one of a matter of degrees more than anything. To what degree was the individual already predisposed to that eventuality?
Whatever the answer may be in reality still wouldn€t obviate that there could be direct linkage to causation. Not €˜causing the personality€ €" but €˜causing€ that personality to finally commit €˜X.€ (€˜Causing€ here used in precisely what I think is meant by Thompson€s term €˜incite€).

Owing to the enormous complexity of these sort of €˜issues€ (and conditions, etc), the probative questions seeking answer are themselves in constant need of refinements.

Jack Thompson, in the subject article of this Thread, has himself put it in rather generic (but for that, also honest) terms, saying €" €œ..that incite as well as train some obsessive teen players to be violent.€
It may be a little careless or €˜lay€ in the phrasing, but his intent is clear & unmistakable and the truth is, it is more €˜instructional€ than €˜causative.€
His use of the word €˜incite€ I think is misleading (not inaccurate as used, just misleading).


Thanks Gunnersman€¦ I think€¦ http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Write yet another book? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
I hope someday to be old enough, and bright enough to complete my magnum opus €" which has been in manuscript for the past 14 years€¦

It€s a very strange thing to conceive a great work one is not yet old enough (or, perhaps bright or experienced enough) to properly articulate.

If I live long enough, maybe€¦

Best,
~ C.

*

DV-8
10-18-2005, 03:28 AM
I read a great article with in PC Gamer that tracked Violent Crimes commimitted by americans under the age of 25 going back to the 1980's. Ironically, the rate drops off by greater than 30% at the exact point of the release of Play Station I in 95. The graph continues to drop coinciding with the release of Grand Theft Auto. (see PC Gamer, Nov 2005)

-Heh


Whats more, the article used data provided by the federal government.

(PC GAMER NOVEMBER 2005)

Acunnon
10-18-2005, 11:36 AM
Well of course we all stoped commiting crimes because we all sat down infront of our tv/pc and the that was that http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif hmm is that not roughly the same time the courtries kids started getting fatter? Better not lot the feds/libs find out that connections then they will say we are all viloent and fat because of games.