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View Full Version : Erich Hartmann's first mission ... feel familiar?



Skycat_2
12-25-2005, 11:58 PM
This is from an article on Erich Hartmann, Germany's leading ace at 352 aerial victories, printed in the January 2006 issue of Aviation History magazine:

On October 14 (1942), Hartmann lifted off on his first-ever combat flight. It was almost his last. He was flying as wingman to Sergeant Eduard Rossmann, who had 80 victories. Rossmann was as competent a teacher as he was a fighter, and he had a reputation for always bringing his wingmen home. It would take all his ability to save this one.

Leveling off at 12,000 feet, the pair followed the Terek River until they were passing over Prokhladny. At this point Rossmann spotted a flight of Soviet aircraft strafing German traffic outside the city and radioed Hartmann to follow him as he dived to attack. After a 5,000-foot plunge, the green wingman finally caught sight of the enemy Rossmann had been tracking all along. Seeing the Russians sent Hartmann into a dither of excitement. Slamming his Messerschmitt to full power, he leapt ahead of Rossmann and impatiently lined up on the rearmost Russian, opening fire at 300 yards. He was dismayed to see his tracers whizzing over and to the left of his target. Unable to get the aircraft in his sights, he had to yank his own plane upward at the last moment to avoid a collision. Momentarily leveling off, he later recalled that he found himself "surrounded on all sides by dark green aircraft, all of them turning behind me for the kill ... ME!"

Frantically climbing into a layer of cloud, he lost his pursuers and was unspeakably relieved to hear Rossmann's calm voice over the radio: "Don't sweat it. I watched your tail. I've lost you now that you've climbed into the clouds. Come down through the layer so I can pick you up again."

When Hartmann dropped from the overcast, he saw a plane coming at him from straight ahead. Panicky, he dived to treetop level and hurtled westward, screaming into his microphone that he was being pursued. By then Rossmann's voice from the radio was so garbled that Hartmann could not make out his words, and the youngster countinued full-tilt to the east until he outdistanced his pursuer.

By the time he was free of being chased and had regained his orientation, his red fuel warning light was flashing. Twenty miles short of Soldatskaya his engine sputtered into thirsty silence. After belly-landing in a cloud of dust, he was quickly surrounded by a unit of amused German infantrymen, who gave him an armored car lift back to his base. Von Bonin was waiting.

Hartmann's "enemy" pursuer had actually been Rossmann, and bolting from his element leader was just one of seven serious combat flying infractions he had committed on his maiden flight. He had separated from his leader without orders, he had flown into his leader's line of fire, lost himself in the clouds, failed to obey Rossmann's order to rejoin, gotten lost and wrecked an expensive plane without damaging the enemy. Von Bonin banished the future supreme ace to three days with the ground crews, hoping to give him dirty hands and time to mull over his sins.

alert_1
12-26-2005, 01:58 AM
Yeah, my first mission was exactly like Hartmann's one...unfortunatelly, the others not....

Xiolablu3
12-26-2005, 02:31 AM
Interesting stuff, thanks http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Badsight.
12-26-2005, 03:01 AM
it was over 3 months flying combat sorties before he made his first kill

IIRC he never had a wingman killed while they flew with him - his first sortie made an impression you could assume

Stuka_G10
12-26-2005, 04:49 AM
Originally posted by Skycat_2:
This is from an article on Erich Hartmann, Germany's leading ace at 352 aerial victories, printed in the January 2006 issue of Aviation History magazine:

On October 14 (1942), Hartmann lifted off on his first-ever combat flight. It was almost his last. He was flying as wingman to Sergeant Eduard Rossmann, who had 80 victories. Rossmann was as competent a teacher as he was a fighter, and he had a reputation for always bringing his wingmen home. It would take all his ability to save this one.

Leveling off at 12,000 feet, the pair followed the Terek River until they were passing over Prokhladny. At this point Rossmann spotted a flight of Soviet aircraft strafing German traffic outside the city and radioed Hartmann to follow him as he dived to attack. After a 5,000-foot plunge, the green wingman finally caught sight of the enemy Rossmann had been tracking all along. Seeing the Russians sent Hartmann into a dither of excitement. Slamming his Messerschmitt to full power, he leapt ahead of Rossmann and impatiently lined up on the rearmost Russian, opening fire at 300 yards. He was dismayed to see his tracers whizzing over and to the left of his target. Unable to get the aircraft in his sights, he had to yank his own plane upward at the last moment to avoid a collision. Momentarily leveling off, he later recalled that he found himself "surrounded on all sides by dark green aircraft, all of them turning behind me for the kill ... ME!"

Frantically climbing into a layer of cloud, he lost his pursuers and was unspeakably relieved to hear Rossmann's calm voice over the radio: "Don't sweat it. I watched your tail. I've lost you now that you've climbed into the clouds. Come down through the layer so I can pick you up again."

When Hartmann dropped from the overcast, he saw a plane coming at him from straight ahead. Panicky, he dived to treetop level and hurtled westward, screaming into his microphone that he was being pursued. By then Rossmann's voice from the radio was so garbled that Hartmann could not make out his words, and the youngster countinued full-tilt to the east until he outdistanced his pursuer.

By the time he was free of being chased and had regained his orientation, his red fuel warning light was flashing. Twenty miles short of Soldatskaya his engine sputtered into thirsty silence. After belly-landing in a cloud of dust, he was quickly surrounded by a unit of amused German infantrymen, who gave him an armored car lift back to his base. Von Bonin was waiting.

Hartmann's "enemy" pursuer had actually been Rossmann, and bolting from his element leader was just one of seven serious combat flying infractions he had committed on his maiden flight. He had separated from his leader without orders, he had flown into his leader's line of fire, lost himself in the clouds, failed to obey Rossmann's order to rejoin, gotten lost and wrecked an expensive plane without damaging the enemy. Von Bonin banished the future supreme ace to three days with the ground crews, hoping to give him dirty hands and time to mull over his sins.
Yeah, it does sound familiar, cause i've already read the article. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Invader88
12-26-2005, 05:11 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
No, not really; my first combatflight was with the Bf-109F-2 in Il-2 demo...and first i never found the target. I think we had to escort bombers and I had to fly this mission ten times to stay on the right course and get some hits on one of the two LaGGs

wayno7777
12-26-2005, 10:13 AM
Originally posted by Stuka_G10:

Yeah, it does sound familiar, cause i've already read the article. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Ditto....

Good stories in this issue....

Bearcat99
12-26-2005, 11:40 AM
The interesting thing about that article to me is how it is a classic example of... no matter how "realistic" sims get.... that level of sheer panic will be impossible to duplicate...

neural_dream
12-26-2005, 01:47 PM
Originally posted by Bearcat99:
The interesting thing about that article to me is how it is a classic example of... no matter how "realistic" sims get.... that level of sheer panic will be impossible to duplicate...
Nah, I disagree. You may haven't felt it in this game or in any game, but panic is common, mainly between younger gamers. Doom 3 is a good example, but even in PF one could feel the same under circumstances.

tomtheyak
12-26-2005, 02:09 PM
Lord knows how many times I have come away with sweaty palms and the trembles from a difficult online fight...

Panics a permanent state of mind when I fly!

waffen-79
12-26-2005, 02:47 PM
I've been there, that's the problems one can encounter flying full real...

Being able to "live" those experiences is awesome

THAXS OLEG for this sim

Bearcat99
12-26-2005, 03:11 PM
Oh dont get me wrong.... I have had the sweaty palms,pounding heart thig going on too.... but I always knew in the end that I could turn off my P.C. and go to bed when it was all said and done... catch the next COOP.... That's what I am talking about.

LEBillfish
12-26-2005, 03:28 PM
Good story.........yet no mine was much different......

Joined a coop....
picked the most powerful plane there....
coop started.......
instantly slammed the throttle to 100% taking out roughly 4 of my team......

However though all we're grumbling, they restarted the mission, and as I tried to start engines, chat, and get things ready (this time in a p39 having switched planes my old slot taken and moved to the back)......I sadly fired my guns and cannon at the same time and paniced, freezing with the buttons held down firing......

A few "noob's, wtf's!!, idiot's! and other more colorful adjectives" later....all of about 5 seconds.......I bolted out of the server (ran away)....and closed down HL....Took me a week of practice before I'd come back http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

gbollin
12-26-2005, 03:35 PM
Hartman almost did not even make into combat.
While making his way to his first duty station.
Hartman an two other pilots agreed to take
three Stukas to replace planes at the front.
One had engine trouble and crash landed.
Hartmans brakes failed while Taxiing for take off and crashed into a dispersal hut on the
field destroying the Stuka and the hut. Hartman was not hurt in the crash.

Airmail109
12-26-2005, 04:33 PM
Bearcat I downhill moutainbike which can make you panick LOL, well me an my brother got a game nearest to our sport for our xbox...MTX motorcross, on a 100 inch projector its amazing.....really reminds us of downhilling to the point that when I nose dived a massive doubles at over 70 mph I was actually tense/panicky and my heart rate was going........it reminded me of of some of the nose dives then crashes over the handlebars thats happend to me when downhilling

WOLFMondo
12-26-2005, 05:38 PM
Originally posted by Bearcat99:
The interesting thing about that article to me is how it is a classic example of... no matter how "realistic" sims get.... that level of sheer panic will be impossible to duplicate...

Because your life isn't on the line, the ultimate deciding factor to your actions. But I hate to loose my virtual pilot all the same.

I remember my first co-op though. I did really well. Its all the others I'm embarrised about.

rnzoli
12-27-2005, 01:50 AM
Originally posted by Skycat_2:
Hartmann's "enemy" pursuer had actually been Rossmann
Norbert Hannig writes a similar story, but OMG he even took a shot at his flight leader trying to cover him http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Luckily he wasn't a good shot at the beginning. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Also explains, that he had oil on his windscreen, since a 20mm shell exploded inside his guns during combat with Soviet flighters, damaging the engine, and making him an easy target.

lowfighter
12-27-2005, 03:16 AM
Originally posted by Bearcat99:
Oh dont get me wrong.... I have had the sweaty palms,pounding heart thig going on too.... but I always knew in the end that I could turn off my P.C. and go to bed when it was all said and done... catch the next COOP.... That's what I am talking about.

Bearcat says the truth!

rnzoli
12-27-2005, 04:53 AM
Originally posted by lowfighter:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bearcat99:
Oh dont get me wrong.... I have had the sweaty palms,pounding heart thig going on too.... but I always knew in the end that I could turn off my P.C. and go to bed when it was all said and done... catch the next COOP.... That's what I am talking about.

Bearcat says the truth! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, he doesn't. He is older and wiser, but that's not the truth for everyone. When I am immersed, I always completely forget that I could actually turn off my PC and go to bed http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

So let's agree that we have different versions of truth here for everyones' taste. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

SeaFireLIV
12-27-2005, 05:33 AM
I remember the first time I flew online... after about an hour or so of frenetic desperation I finished the sortie and found my adrenalin pummping and sweating like a pig! I couldn`t believe it!

It`s just a game, I thought, why the heck is this happening? That was on the first few sessions. Never offline.

I think it`s because you know that that 109 behind you is not some soulless computer following pregrammed routines, but a REAL HUMAN BEING chasing for you. That enemy fighter you have your sights on is a REAL person trying to get away from YOU.

It`s that psychological realisation (especially for a new online player) that the kid gloves are off you`re now in the real virtual world. Sure, you can switch the PC off, but would you? Ruin this almost realistic -to-life feeling (as well as insult the other people?)

It`s the psychological Human to Human thing that makes it so close to real-life accounts, which I`m afraid can never be matched by AI, no matter how sentient it becomes.

I even read accounts where real pilots found themselves drenched in sweat by the time they got home!

Strange thing is when I worked in security and had to apprehend shoplifters I never sweated like I did in my first online game... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

lowfighter
12-27-2005, 07:20 AM
Ever been in danger of losing your real life in an instant? If so, compare THAT sensation with the most intense sensation you got playing il2. We all have quite a range of feelings in game, sometimes quite intense, that's why we play il2,but at least with me they are pretty far from the real thing. I encountered the real thing just two times in my life, once in the mountains, once running under gun fire, nothing ever matched those experiences...

rnzoli
12-27-2005, 08:34 AM
Yes, unfortunately I have been through such experience (head-on collision with another car) and I do get scared in the same way in IL2. You can call me a coward if you wish, maybe it has to do with the fact that I play only full difficulty settings, but I think it really has to do with imagination. Perhaps people with more imaginative mind can find all types of simulation more immersive (i.e., scary). Same goes for kids, lots of imagination, therefore running the risk of mixing up game and real life. Overall you said it well: quite a range of feelings in game, some weaker, some stronger.