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View Full Version : Proper use of the BF-109, boring but effective. (online track included)



XyZspineZyX
08-22-2003, 06:49 PM
Hello,

Since the patch I must say I'm overall pleased with it. The new sound engine is awesome and all the plane tweaks seems fine (albeit the FW190 roll rate seems very fast! Was it really like this?). Flying the 109 I've mostly noticed how the MG guns are more efficient (but still not really that deadly enough using B&Z so the MK108 is really a must). Another thing I love is how it no longer falls apart just if you look at it in a bad way. It can actually take some machine gun fire now and still fly making it easier for me to stay alive. Not sure if this is historically accurate, I was fine with the fragile 109 pre-patch but this seems right to me. I also like that fact that the MK108 brings down the VVS aircraft without needing 5-8 shells. Every now and then I notice though that a LA/Yak might just fly away without damage even though I hit it with 1-2 shells of the cannon (you can see that in the track at the bottom).

I've noticed now that the 109 are really a complicated fighter compared to the VVS planes, it all comes down to the pilot and the situational variables. You really do have to ENSURE a good altitude advantage over your VVS counterparts if you meet at CO-E. Being caught at CO-E at the same altitude low to the ground already means that you're as good as dead, you'll only have the clouds and a teammate to help you from a certain doom. At that point you cannot try to out-climb the VVS planes, I understand that now, because they will be able to climb with you down low (lower than 3-5000 meters). 1943+ 109 models really have no better climb abilities than the VVS aircraft and people need to realize this. If you don't have an altitude advantage at CO-E up high you have only one choice and that is to dive to try to out-run him and then extend away (shown in track, he goes boom!). Now that the 109-frame can take higher speeds while the LA's and Yak's break up faster this is now a viable tactic.

If used right however the 109 is truly almost unbeatable. If you know how to play the game there's no catching you. Albeit this is a rather dull game, it requires lots of patience and the discipline to abort engagement if you can't win it. Online nobody rarely does this because you'll just re-spawn after you're dead anyway. So therefore it's often way more entertaining to just make that attack even if it seems futile. At least there is a chance you'll get a kill right? I fly using that concept every now and then but I've grown more content flying with the intent of "not dying". Trying to stay alive while also racking up a few kills is a lot of fun. You're kill/time ratio is VERY low however; you're going to end up using 2-4x the time to get the amount of kills you would otherwise. You're death toll though will almost always be close to zero. The kills you get though feels good.

Here's a track of me trying to fly "perfect". It works even though I'm far from a perfect pilot.
http://www.r-syn.com/images/screenshots/il2/tracks/BF109-pp_play.ntrk

I'd love some ONLINE tracks from other 109/LW pilots. PLEASE. Seems like everyone's too afraid of what people, will think of them to upload their tracks. Record tracks always it really does not hurt your FPS.

- dreyer

XyZspineZyX
08-22-2003, 06:49 PM
Hello,

Since the patch I must say I'm overall pleased with it. The new sound engine is awesome and all the plane tweaks seems fine (albeit the FW190 roll rate seems very fast! Was it really like this?). Flying the 109 I've mostly noticed how the MG guns are more efficient (but still not really that deadly enough using B&Z so the MK108 is really a must). Another thing I love is how it no longer falls apart just if you look at it in a bad way. It can actually take some machine gun fire now and still fly making it easier for me to stay alive. Not sure if this is historically accurate, I was fine with the fragile 109 pre-patch but this seems right to me. I also like that fact that the MK108 brings down the VVS aircraft without needing 5-8 shells. Every now and then I notice though that a LA/Yak might just fly away without damage even though I hit it with 1-2 shells of the cannon (you can see that in the track at the bottom).

I've noticed now that the 109 are really a complicated fighter compared to the VVS planes, it all comes down to the pilot and the situational variables. You really do have to ENSURE a good altitude advantage over your VVS counterparts if you meet at CO-E. Being caught at CO-E at the same altitude low to the ground already means that you're as good as dead, you'll only have the clouds and a teammate to help you from a certain doom. At that point you cannot try to out-climb the VVS planes, I understand that now, because they will be able to climb with you down low (lower than 3-5000 meters). 1943+ 109 models really have no better climb abilities than the VVS aircraft and people need to realize this. If you don't have an altitude advantage at CO-E up high you have only one choice and that is to dive to try to out-run him and then extend away (shown in track, he goes boom!). Now that the 109-frame can take higher speeds while the LA's and Yak's break up faster this is now a viable tactic.

If used right however the 109 is truly almost unbeatable. If you know how to play the game there's no catching you. Albeit this is a rather dull game, it requires lots of patience and the discipline to abort engagement if you can't win it. Online nobody rarely does this because you'll just re-spawn after you're dead anyway. So therefore it's often way more entertaining to just make that attack even if it seems futile. At least there is a chance you'll get a kill right? I fly using that concept every now and then but I've grown more content flying with the intent of "not dying". Trying to stay alive while also racking up a few kills is a lot of fun. You're kill/time ratio is VERY low however; you're going to end up using 2-4x the time to get the amount of kills you would otherwise. You're death toll though will almost always be close to zero. The kills you get though feels good.

Here's a track of me trying to fly "perfect". It works even though I'm far from a perfect pilot.
http://www.r-syn.com/images/screenshots/il2/tracks/BF109-pp_play.ntrk

I'd love some ONLINE tracks from other 109/LW pilots. PLEASE. Seems like everyone's too afraid of what people, will think of them to upload their tracks. Record tracks always it really does not hurt your FPS.

- dreyer

XyZspineZyX
08-22-2003, 07:07 PM
This one deserves a bump! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

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2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye
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XyZspineZyX
08-22-2003, 07:47 PM
tracks, tracks and tracks!

If someone need a place to upload them I will provide you with an FTP.

XyZspineZyX
08-22-2003, 10:13 PM
ttrrraacccckkkss

XyZspineZyX
08-22-2003, 10:16 PM
I don`t even need to read this. I`ve been on the receiving end of these tactics many times.



"Tis better to work towards an Impossible Good, rather than a Possible Evil."

SeaFireLIV.

XyZspineZyX
08-22-2003, 10:32 PM
I'd love to contribute although I'm far from being an ace pilot, just for some critique but all my tracks get screwed by the patch's track saving bug.

If I get a chance, I'll try yours out to see if I can pick up any tips and technique. Thanks.



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XyZspineZyX
08-22-2003, 10:35 PM
WOW!!
I'm impressed!!
Bravo!

XyZspineZyX
08-22-2003, 10:39 PM
The 190 does not roll as fast as in the game. What they did was steal some of the rollrate from the 47 and gave it to the 190. Kind of an affirmative action type of thing.

_____________________________________

When does a game end being a game and become a simulator? Interesting questions to ponder while waiting, from Aces-High.

XyZspineZyX
08-23-2003, 12:28 AM
Winning an engagement and not being killed or swarmed yourself is NEVER boring.

XyZspineZyX
08-23-2003, 12:49 AM
Yeah right,show me online track where you blow I16 away while performing strict B&Z in F2.

"degustibus non disputandum"

<center>http://carguy.w.interia.pl/tracki/sig23d.jpg

<center>"Weder Tod noch Teufel!"</font>[/B]</center> (http://www.jzg23.de>[B]<font)

XyZspineZyX
08-23-2003, 02:29 AM
sdreyer,

Thanks for that very informative track. It shows you doing a nice BnZ-ing job, managing to rack up a few kills on mostly unsuspecting enemies. Well done.

The other highly interesting thing I noticed, when following that Yak3 carrying the #4 and another Yak3 with no markings/numbers on it whatsoever, was their very strange flying behaviour. To me it looked like they were doing Apache helicopter-like manouvers at times in which they did a full 360 degrees turnaround within an area probably even less in size than an average tennis court. Amazing! They would go up up and away, turn around 360 degrees, while their noses weren't even pointing in the direction the airplane was going (up, and yet the nose was still pointing down practically).. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

I am very curious if anybody else saw this strange behaviour as well and could give me an explanation for it. Was that really just lag *all* the time? And why where these two Yak3's doing it during their whole flight, while the LW airplanes showed none of this funny behaviour? They also managed to shoot others down nicely *and* evade attacks on themselves. In this particular case that "lag" did seem to come in quite handy, didn't it? Strange.

I'm not saying I suspect foul play already, but I would welcome the opinions of others on this to help end my confusion about what I just saw. And please, before you comment, watch those two planes closely during that track and then tell me what you think. (Oh, and to my surprise this track replayed right every time I ran it, so that wasn't to blame for the Yak3's behaviour either)

Much appreciated.

XyZspineZyX
08-23-2003, 04:25 AM
You've got the patience of Job. Yeah, it _was_ boring. ;-) I've noticed that I find it impossible to spot planes from far away. You started going after planes, and only then was I able to find them. Maybe it's my monitor? Or my eyes?

XyZspineZyX
08-23-2003, 12:47 PM
Yes Airborn, I've seen this happen before on other tracks. I can only assume it is "lag", though as you explained that makes little sense either. Only other possibility I see could be a bug in the track recording code or something like that. Though I think I've even noticed this behavior during live flight. To be honest with you I've always wondered what this is, though I assumed it was lag. Not sure why "lag" would in any way cause such movement. Lag can be defined as three things, if the users connectivity completely cuts out for a small amount of time (packet loss) his aircraft would just go forward like you've probably seen before in online servers until connectivity has been established again. Since there is no client prediction code for this game the server will then just ask the client "where he is" and then place him back there on the server. If the latency is just being increased over a small amount of time you would just have a greater delay, let's say the user's ping is 800ms this means he'll start to make a turn and then 0.8 seconds later (+ server processing time) he will make the turn on the sever for everyone else to see. Neither of these two should cause that behavior. The only thing could be server lag, the CPU on the server or some other system resource is being maxed out thus causing the server to have delays in it's processing. You would assume that this lag would effect ALL aircraft in the server however so that is not a good explanation either.

XyZspineZyX
08-23-2003, 12:49 PM
Hrmm, what resolution do you play in? This could be a factor, spotting that little dot 5-10KM away is not that easy with a low resolution. I also think that having low details set will help you spot aircraft as there is not as much "stuff" for a small dot to blend in with.

jazman777 wrote:
- You've got the patience of Job. Yeah, it _was_
- boring. ;-) I've noticed that I find it impossible
- to spot planes from far away. You started going
- after planes, and only then was I able to find them.
- Maybe it's my monitor? Or my eyes?
-
-
-
-
-

XyZspineZyX
08-23-2003, 03:38 PM
sdreyer,

Thank you for that info. Yes it did seem to me that these planes flew as if they had a slow-motion of some sort switched on. Very strange. The only good thing about it is the fact that there were only a few planes involved I guess and it might well be that the pilots that flew these planes suffered as much as they benefitted from this effect. Although they did seem to be able to make good use of it at times.

And as you say, it didn't look like any lag I have seen before while flying online.



Message Edited on 08/23/0305:21PM by Airborn_

XyZspineZyX
08-23-2003, 06:51 PM
RGR