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Bearcat99
11-01-2010, 07:33 PM
P-51 - 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKNl7OJsLMc&feature=player_embedded)
P-51 - 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVtVi6bHPss&feature=related)
P-51 - 3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5B_vBzrLrw&feature=player_embedded)

Romanator21
11-01-2010, 08:47 PM
"Best fighter of WWII...period"

That would be the top comment on youtube. *sigh*

WTE_Ibis
11-01-2010, 10:24 PM
At 8.13 in the first clip the aircraft appears to clip the top of trees after diving on its target.
Hairy.


.

Swivet
11-02-2010, 11:25 AM
Great stuff BC!

Swivet
11-02-2010, 11:27 AM
Originally posted by WTE_Ibis:
At 8.13 in the first clip the aircraft appears to clip the top of trees after diving on its target.
Hairy.


.



Wow, i just watched that too..That pilot had to of died in that, unless the image was magnified, but still. Unless he did one of these "X-wing Manuevers" and went wings vertical at the last minute, how could anyone not miss that.

Bearcat99
11-02-2010, 03:48 PM
Originally posted by Romanator21:
"Best fighter of WWII...period"

That would be the top comment on youtube. *sigh*

Take the meat and leave the bone ........

berg417448
11-02-2010, 04:49 PM
Originally posted by Swivet:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WTE_Ibis:
At 8.13 in the first clip the aircraft appears to clip the top of trees after diving on its target.
Hairy.


.



Wow, i just watched that too..That pilot had to of died in that, unless the image was magnified, but still. Unless he did one of these "X-wing Manuevers" and went wings vertical at the last minute, how could anyone not miss that. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>



I doubt they would have the video if the plane had crashed. I've read numerous accounts of WWII aircraft striking trees and still making it back to base (sometimes with bits of tree embedded).

PhantomKira
11-02-2010, 05:46 PM
Originally posted by Romanator21:
"Best fighter of WWII...period"

That would be the top comment on youtube. *sigh*


But, but, but... the P-51 was a wonderplane! It won the war all by itself! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

(Sir, if you MUST have a liquid cooled engine, be sensible about it and get two.) http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/halo.gif

BillSwagger
11-02-2010, 06:36 PM
Although most documentaries glorify the bird they are showcasing, it isn't a bird that deserves to be down-played.


http://www.spitfireperformance...-bishop-11sept44.jpg (http://www.spitfireperformance.com/mustang/combat-reports/55-bishop-11sept44.jpg)

2 190s destroyed
1 190 damaged
4 locomotives destroyed

1 sortie



Bill

Rjel
11-02-2010, 07:20 PM
Originally posted by PhantomKira:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Romanator21:
"Best fighter of WWII...period"

That would be the top comment on youtube. *sigh*


But, but, but... the P-51 was a wonderplane! It won the war all by itself! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

(Sir, if you MUST have a liquid cooled engine, be sensible about it and get two.) http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/halo.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It is rather humorous how that has become the battle cry of revisionists here. It didn't win the war alone, none of it's pilots or commanders ever claimed so. But it sure did help drive the last nail into the Luftwaffe's coffin. Laugh at it if you want to, but I'd lay odds that few if any German fighter pilots doubted it's abilities.

Xiolablu3
11-03-2010, 03:28 PM
Anyone who reads this forum knows that I am not very knowledgable when it comes to technical stuff, I usually ask questions about aircraft rathet than answer them.

But I just wanted to say that I cant help but htink that the IL2 P51 is SLIGHTLY underdone in some way. Even if its just the 'wobblyness.'

Not saying its porked at all, but I think its been a little hard done by. Probably unintentionally, and just a result of many tiny game deficiencies..

I prefer the P47 in the sim compared to the P51, and this just doesnt tally with history, at least as far as flight qualities are concerned.

The RAF for example hated the P47, but loved the P51B-D. I cant see much difference in IL2 1946. In fact I think the P47 holds more cards.

Only ONE US squadron wanted to keep its P47's over the P51 IIRC?

RegRag1977
11-05-2010, 06:46 AM
I cant see much difference in IL2 1946. In fact I think the P47 holds more cards.

To me these two aircraft are really different in game ( even though i'm a P47 beginner). I'm starting to like the P47, but it just can't come close to the Stang when it comes to high speed turns, dive acceleration and energy retention. Damn, there the P51 is the best ac in the game http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif , not to talk about top speed, range and high altitude performance.

The P47 is smoother, and is as comfortable as a liner to fly http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif (comfortable! just try a 2 hours or more mission, flying in formation over a large map, and you'll see what i mean http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif in a 109 ,with no trim, for example it would be a true nightmare) and seems to fly and fight at slower speeds. Of course, it is also tougher and has a lot of punch, but in the end, (call me stupid), 4X50 cal is all i need (and all i love http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif ) against fighters.

Well i find that the P51 is really different from the other fighters in game and my issue with it is only related with the B/C models: the gunsight is positioned far too low compared to the D ones, and this make boom and zoom a little more complicated, it's not a big issue, but sometimes i just have to complain about things like this...Too much whine in my veins i guess http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif ....Other than that i regret the lack of mirror for the B model.

@Bearcat: thanks for the videos, much appreciated http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Enjoy http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...5Jb8&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0p3dwTo5Jb8&feature=related)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...31PM&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWMxsCC31PM&feature=related)

Xiolablu3
11-05-2010, 12:55 PM
Sorry, I wrote that very poorly.

What I mean by 'I cant see much difference' is that I think the planes are evenly matched as far as qualities go.

Not that they are similar in characteristics.

BillSwagger
11-05-2010, 01:23 PM
Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
Sorry, I wrote that very poorly.

What I mean by 'I cant see much difference' is that I think the planes are evenly matched as far as qualities go.

Not that they are similar in characteristics.

I enjoy flying both planes. I think i could do more with the P-51 in a dogfight than i could a P-47.
The P-47 depends a lot on energy advantage and altitude. Its not a worthy fighter at lower altitudes where with a P-51 i think you could still do more with. I'd only use the P-47_late down lower where at least it has more pep to get it back up to height, but you still have to fight from a height advantage.

Now you could argue which was better in the war, but i still contend the P-47 was the better fighter up high, it just didn't have the range to do what needed to be done over Germany.
What you get out of either plane in the game depends on your skills as a pilot.

Xiolablu3
11-05-2010, 04:35 PM
Originally posted by BillSwagger:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
Sorry, I wrote that very poorly.

What I mean by 'I cant see much difference' is that I think the planes are evenly matched as far as qualities go.

Not that they are similar in characteristics.

I enjoy flying both planes. I think i could do more with the P-51 in a dogfight than i could a P-47.
The P-47 depends a lot on energy advantage and altitude. Its not a worthy fighter at lower altitudes where with a P-51 i think you could still do more with. I'd only use the P-47_late down lower where at least it has more pep to get it back up to height, but you still have to fight from a height advantage.

Now you could argue which was better in the war, but i still contend the P-47 was the better fighter up high, it just didn't have the range to do what needed to be done over Germany.
What you get out of either plane in the game depends on your skills as a pilot. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I absolutely agree, the P51 IS the better dogfighter of the two. However I find that useless, personally, because I find the lack of stall warning on the P51 so much of a hindrance that I am always snap-rolling it when i try and dogfight. (I realise that lack of stall warning was a problem for many laminar flow winged aircraft, its even mentioned by the P51/Spitfire pilot in Bearcats vids above. (The Spiteful (A Spitfire with laminar flow wing) report also mentions this problem.

Seasoned P51 drivers probably dont have this problem. However its such a problem for me, that I would rather take the P47 and strictly energy fight.

The wobbly gunsight on the P51 also puts me off. The P47 is such a astable gun platform.

BillSwagger
11-05-2010, 04:50 PM
because I find the lack of stall warning on the P51 so much of a hindrance that I am always snap-rolling it when i try and dogfight

Thats just a matter of technique and airspeed.
I usually stay in the energy fight regardless of either plane but i just notice the P-51 has more speed in situations where the P-47 is too slow, particularly down lower or at medium heights.

Xiolablu3
11-06-2010, 07:13 AM
Originally posted by BillSwagger:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">because I find the lack of stall warning on the P51 so much of a hindrance that I am always snap-rolling it when i try and dogfight

Thats just a matter of technique and airspeed.
I usually stay in the energy fight regardless . </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Me too, Bill. But there are always times when you have just maybe attacked a ground target and a plane attacks with more energy and speed than you. Or you get attacked from above by a Bf109 or Ki84 while low. Leaving you with nothing else to do but dogfight your way out.

RegRag1977
11-07-2010, 03:46 AM
Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BillSwagger:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">because I find the lack of stall warning on the P51 so much of a hindrance that I am always snap-rolling it when i try and dogfight

Thats just a matter of technique and airspeed.
I usually stay in the energy fight regardless . </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Me too, Bill. But there are always times when you have just maybe attacked a ground target and a plane attacks with more energy and speed than you. Or you get attacked from above by a Bf109 or Ki84 while low. Leaving you with nothing else to do but dogfight your way out. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I hear you, this is a really bad situation to be in. The problem is that you cannot easily avoid this to happen in an online (and offline too) environment if you want to complete a ground pounding mission and win the map, which is often the forgotten objective http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif .

I tend to avoid strafing and prefer dive bombing and then try to exit with the speed gained in the dive, of course this does not always work.

The important thing in any combat is the tactic employed, and the one used in simulators are quite different from what was in reality. For instance, in a real and well trained squadron you would have a good top cover which would allow you to spend critical time in gaining position and energy to defend yourself or to run away (not only talking about a wingman help, talking about the whole squadron tactics).

The energy aircraft capabilities are often/always magnified when used with the adequate tactics (which is not always possible online, this generally due to poor virtual pilots sense of altruism, discipline and training, their lack of will when it comes to work together: sometimes it's just because they cannot even follow (keep visual contact) not to talk about covering their team mates in a peaceful environment, few even know how to fly in formation http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif.

This is why most people consider that the best AC in the game are those with which one can "achieve" lol something alone ie rack up loads of kills (109, Spit, Las, Kis, etc) It is true that online these are less frequently victims of coordinated attacks: even with my moderate online experience, what i've seen when performing these attacks with team mates is seing even "good stats players" doing every possible mistake in the book when attacked, completely surprised and shocked, always ending with a crippled aircraft burning (and turning) down low, and this is what happened to many real World War 2 aces.

If speed is life, team tactics are the life insurance.

Bankoletti
11-08-2010, 09:25 AM
Well, I consider the P-51 to be the best allied fighter in the sim (save exotics).

Even 1v1 it's better than anything German up until Dora. With fuel down to 25% it even can out-dogfight late 109s, let alone Antons. It dives so good, retains energy so well, climbs reasonably good... a dream machine, really. On dogfight servers I regularly manage to fly entire map (2 hours) without refueling, racking up multiple kills. In 1943 early mustangs simply have no competition at all, non alcoholic 109s, Antons, Macchis are all markedly inferior, not to mention anything that the empire of rising sun can field at that time... And that's all true already for a loner, now imagine what a pair of them (possibly on comms) can do! One thing that's imperatiove though is the room for diving. You can't fly the P-51 to its full potential on the deck. Dive and zoom - that's where the plane shines and where it has absolutely no contender. Yes, the 190 has greater break up speed, but in a shallow dive you'll get away from him and if he is silly enough to follow, you'll then outzoom and outclimb him easily.

The only plane that can give you a good run for your money in a P-51 is a D-9 in ETO and Jack and maybe Frank in PTO.

But of course you can't take 100% fuel and expect to be blasting 109s and N1Ks away with turning with them on the deck.

Besides,


Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
But there are always times when you have just maybe attacked a ground target and a plane attacks with more energy and speed than you. Or you get attacked from above by a Bf109 or Ki84 while low. Leaving you with nothing else to do but dogfight your way out.

In such a situation you are in an inferior position in any plane. P-51 is no wonderplane immune to being jumped by someone with higher E-state.

Xiolablu3
11-09-2010, 07:30 AM
Of course, thats obvious, but its far easier for ME to dogfight my way out in a Spitfire, Bf109 or even a P47 than a P51.

Its all personal, and I am talking about ME, noone else's experience.