View Full Version : What is up with the flight model?

11-22-2004, 11:23 PM
Using AEP, I learned to be a beast with the
Chaika. PAC FIGHTERS put an end to my success.
Now the Chaika has lost its smoothness, it doesn't want to roll, and I'm getting slaughtered by the B-239's which I used to devour. I have a brand new Predator game computer with all the bells and whistles---
seriously doubt if the 'puter is the problem.
I don't have a clue about physics---was the AEP Chaika too maneuverable and you fixed it?
I have noticed it is less rigid when I disable Complex Engine Management. The 3.01m patch
didn't help. I miss my "pocket rocket."

11-23-2004, 06:59 AM
I always thought it was too manueverable. It used to pull insane turns and keep up with a Buffalo in a dive. I'm going to try the plane tonight but if it got toned down a bit that probably isn't a bad thing.

11-23-2004, 07:29 AM
The new PC may have something to do with it, yes, especially if you were doing the
slaughter offline. Now your AI pilots may have more cycles for think time! I had
seen that back in my Red Baron days, 1998, when I and some others upgraded.

There is also that turning in PF has been easier, the Buffaloes may just have gotten
inside an edge.

Or it might be that the I-16 has been looked over, but I doubt so much or badly. That
plane had three nicknames in Russian. One was Hawk (Yastrebok), the name given at the
start but the other was Mule (Ishak) given early by the pilots as it was awkward but
fulfilled all its obligations faithfully. In the Spanish Civil War it was also named
Fly (Mosca). But three famous Russian pilots, Shkalov, Suprun and Stefanovski went
on a tour to all the training centers that had I-16's and worked even one on one with
pilots until it was again known as Yastrebok (Hawk). The last step was an airshow,
Moscow, Sept 1935. Those 3 flew in formation from takeoff to landing with their
wingtips linked by colored bands including a series of aerobatics. The bands did
not break, there was no denying the plane capable of precision maneuver flown correctly.

But the I-16 was on the way out in 1941. Look at it simply, the series ended. If it
had been useful and could do more there would have been further development. The IL2
single seat took up where the I-16 left off.

11-23-2004, 01:36 PM
I started a Fw190A4 Stalingrad Dgen campaign recently and noticed the changes in the early Soviet types. The I-16s and I-153s no longer seem to have the climb capability that they did in some FB patches. It is very easy to B&Z them now especially with the improved "dots". Damage models for these planes must have been adjusted too, as they go down more easily than before.

The current FMs create a picture that matches historical accounts very well. The 109s and 190s just have too much speed and climb for the older Soviet aircraft. It must be difficult for people who have flown the older FB versions of these planes to adjust though.

11-23-2004, 02:10 PM
I think its just that the new DOT size has allowed the modelling of Photon Drag. Therfore the larger the Dot the greater the Photon drag. This of course will be aircraft non specfic. Given that Photon Drag is directly proportional to DOT size and varies directly with time of Day.So in fact most FM's will be affected


11-23-2004, 04:51 PM
Here is what concerns me: the I-153 was a hot,
little biplane which ought to be able to eat
alive any hot monoplane of the WWII era which
unwisely wishes to dance to its tune, i.e., get down on the deck and play DAWN PATROL with
a maneuver king. I am finding that my beloved
hot rod is getting whipped at its own game by
various flavors of monoplanes---it simply is no longer able to turn or make quick altitude
changes of a hundred feet or so to frustrate
the muscle machines. I am finding this inelasticity endemic of the changes wrought by PAC FIGHTERS (unhelped by 3.01m patch). I tried your new roll, pitch, and yaw settings for my Logitech force feedback---they helped a bit. Alas, I am at sea with the physics of flight but I am rock solid on the history---
even a German ace in 109 lost his life when he tried to play Fokker Dr I in a 109 versus a
Chaika. The more I experiment, the more I am
convinced something is amiss. Blast it, a Ki-43I seems to maneuver better than an I-153---
this isn't right.

11-23-2004, 07:09 PM
I don't know what your beef is here. I just flew the thing and its unreal. Any pilot who pulled the maneuvers I was pulling would have been picking chunks of spew out of his instrument panel for the next three weeks. I know I'm biased and am not used to planes like this but I was easily out maneuvering 109s and I'd say the Ki-43 was a dead heat (just sort of made me whoosy spinning around like that). I'm also not so sure the Ki-43 shouldn't be able to keep up with the Chaika. Just because its a monoplane doesn't mean it didn't have skills and the thing is made out of toilet paper and duct tape from christ's sake, its super light. It also had these cool butterfly flaps which gave it a very impressive turning ability.

11-23-2004, 07:14 PM
A big mea culpa: played the Chaika against a single B-239 a bunch of times, and, as I started to adjust to the subtle changes in your flight model, the B-239's started to go down in droves. Congratulations on the vicious AI. Now Average B-239's are nearly as ingenious and murderous as AEP's Aces. This caught me by surprise (I had been playing four
groups of three Chaikas versus four groups of four Brewsters---in the melee I was not noticing the cannier Brewster hogs and I was using the joystick as if I was still playing AEP). Very interesting---now more than ever you have to handle the Polikarpovs with kid gloves, but the finger tip control pays off
once you get the hang of it. I just love luring faster, more powerful aircraft down to the deck, and giving them the Polikarpov "treatment"! Other than the touchier control, I noticed that the Chaika jerked a bit as I made fine rudder adjustments for head-on shots (made my force-feedback stick feel double-jointed, jerky). I am not able to fluidly deliver a devastating stream of m.g. fire as in the days of AEP. C'est la vie---I assume you have good reasons for your changes. I still can have a roaring good time with the Polis. Keep up the great work, Oleg.

11-29-2004, 07:06 AM
After adjusting to the flight model in its current state, I still found I could not get the I-153 to roll. The poor thing would just teeter to port or starboard. After a great deal of experimentation, I discovered the bogey: I had to toggle Enable Centering Spring in Force Feedback Games (Game Controllers>Properties>Settings>Force Feedback>Centering Spring). Last summer I experimentally toggled this for AEP, and the entire system went berserk. I disabled it and forgot about it. This time it completely solved the maneuverability problems. The I-153 can roll like a demon again. I can precisely direct machine gun fire. All is well.