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taz1004
06-25-2007, 11:01 AM
This is more about how to fight them in specific campaign scenarios rather than online. I do fairly well against them in 1 vs 1.

I've started playing RAF campaign in pacific theater... with spitfires. I'm having problem fighting zeros with their exceptional turn rate. Two scenarios.

First is when I have to scramble while they're right on top of the base. I don't have the altitude nor speed so I'm still trying to gain speed and they get right on my tail. And I can't shake them. If I get lucky, some friendlies help me out but in most cases, I'm sitting duck. Is there any tactic to fight in this scenario?

Second is similar but little more to do with formation. First series of missions, I'm flying as wingman rather than leader so I have to fly next to the leader or he doesn't stop yapping on the radio. But in some of these missions, the leader chooses to fly lower than I would like to. So when we engage squadron of zeros there's not enough room below me to start an energy fight.

And even if there's enough room to start boom and zoom, the wing leader starts to nag again that I left his wing. But if I stay with him, zeros get behind me and blast me away. Do I just have to ignore the formation? Or is there way to beat the AI in zeros in turning fight with Spitfires?

Ernst_Rohr
06-25-2007, 12:39 PM
The Spit has a tough time with any of the Japanese birds because they are better than the Spit at its usual game, turning.

The biggest thing is to get an alt advantage over the Zero, thats going to be your strongest advantage, because the Spit is only marginally faster than the Zero until later in the war. Early to mid war, your going to have a tough time of it against the Zero.

Which model Spit are you flying? There are some significant differences between some of the models. The Seafire for example is much faster on the deck, and climbs better than the A6m5, but is poor at altitude and actually slower than the Zero!

The Spits get a big boost against the Zero with the Mk VIII, due to the big jump in speed, which allows the Spit to separate from the Zero.

The big key is NEVER turn fight with a Zero. Period. Early war, stick to hit and run ONLY, if you turn, the Zero is going to get the jump on you quickly. The Zero turns better, and has better accelleration then the Spit, until the Mk VIII shows up, you cant give up any speed to the Zero or your in trouble.

Once the Mk VIII and later show up, you have a major speed advantage over the Zero, but still keep to fast passes and keep your speed up. Shallow turns only, just to get guns on the target, and NEVER let your speed drop.

I have routinely killed Spits in A6M's and Ki-43's because the majority of Spit jocks are used to T&B. Never never never turn with a Japanese fighter, that is THE thing they are built for. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

taz1004
06-25-2007, 12:58 PM
I'm flying MK VIII and I know it has speed advantage and I know how to use it in 1 vs 1. But I need advice on how to fight them in those campaign scenario I described above.

Say the Zero's already on my tail while I'm at around 270km/h trying to gain speed and alt just after scrambling. Is that fight pretty much over? Because if I try any defensive maneuvers that I know, it bleeds off speed and never can run away. Is there any defensive maneuver that doesn't bleed speed?

And second question was... should I ignore formation and fight however I want in campaign?

Saburo_0
06-25-2007, 01:17 PM
You'll probably have to ditch your leader and run away from the Zero's if you want a good chance to survive. Head away, get speed and altitude then keep them. In a pinch rolls will hopld speed pretty well and make you harder to hit, but they will also allow the zero to close the distance. Depends how desperate you are I guess...BTW remember the Zero won't roll too well at high speeds so you can use that to your advantage. Good luck!

Ernst_Rohr
06-25-2007, 01:19 PM
If your fighting in a campaign, your stuck with your AI being stuck on rails unless your the leader.

I would suggest bumping your rank to get the lead of the flight, or breaking away and going at it while above your flight as high escort.

In the case of getting bounced low, your doubly disadvantaged, your lower and slower, and your going to have a hard time getting clear of the Zero's.

If your airfield has AAA, you can try to orbit the field and hope they help ward off some of the Zero's. The other option is to (hopefully) let your flight pull some of the Zero's off, and get enough separation to gain some alt, then come back to the fight. Dont try and climb immediately, get your speed up as quick as you can. Fly away from the fight until you have enough speed, the trade that off for some alt, circle back, and build up speed again.

Low and slow, the Zero is going to totally dominate, if you can get enough separation and speed up, you can start to dictate the engagement. Particularly if they are turning with your AI buddies, they are going to be burning E turning, so coming back in with even a little alt, you can put in a few degrees of dive and really crank up the speed.

If you can get back up to around 350 to 400kph+ in a shallow dive against turning Zeros, you will be able to make slashing attacks and be able to separate easily.

The big thing initially is to get the heck out of there and get your speed up, any way you can.

taz1004
06-25-2007, 01:29 PM
Thanks for the inputs. I did try to circle around the airfield hoping that AAA's get the zero's off my tail but didn't work so well. I practically flew right over friendly AAA towing one zero and they missed... I flew by 3 times the airfield and they missed every time. Actually, 3rd time, they got me instead.

Polyperhon
06-25-2007, 05:54 PM
Against the zero usually goes like this: Climb fast to get over them, dive to get in a shooting position,continue diving if you miss.The scenarios that you describe are the most difficult to escape,because you are forced in a situation that you don't have time to accelerate enough since you are forced to turn to escape from the zeros that are approaching behind your back.Agaist the zero's avoid things like Yoyo's and scissors. Approach them from an angle that you don't have to bleed much energy.I would suggest don't be in panic and fly straight to gain speed as fast as you can.

VW-IceFire
06-25-2007, 07:10 PM
Hrmmm...with a Mark VIII you do have a pretty good chance against the Zeros. On takeoff firewall the throttle to maximum and hit W for WEP (War Emergency Power). Push the engine straight to the top and instead of aiming for altitude get speed (this is in the scramble situation). Your objective is to fly away from the airbase without getting any Zeros on your tail...if you do get them out run them. Then once you have lots of speed out climb them and continue to do so until they fall back. Then switch around and hit them from above.

The Mark VIII has allot more speed and engine power than a Zero...fortunately its not a Mark V because this would be much more challenging.

Superluminal_8
06-26-2007, 02:44 AM
Add one and the zero is gone....

mortoma
06-26-2007, 04:49 AM
I have no trouble against Zeroes that are AI, piloted by humans online is another story. Once I was flying a offline Dgen campaign in the Beaufighter and I somehow got all by myself with no buddies and three Zeroes trying to harm me. It took forever but not only did I manage to get them all to peashooter MG only, but I managed to shoot them all down. In a clumsy Beafighter!!! If I'm in a dedicated fighter of any type I have "zero" trouble with AI Zeros!! And that goes for the weak MK.I Buffalo too.

During the Beafighter incident, I went and looked at the #####.mis file and those Zeros had been two veterans and the leader was so-called 'ace' level. It's not that I'm so good but I just know how to handle AI controlled aircraft in this game. You get to know how they are going to react. After all I have been flying this sim since the demo in 2001 and have been 95% offline. I get on a online kick for a few days every three months or so though.

mortoma
06-26-2007, 05:11 AM
Originally posted by taz1004:
This is more about how to fight them in specific campaign scenarios rather than online. I do fairly well against them in 1 vs 1.

I've started playing RAF campaign in pacific theater... with spitfires. I'm having problem fighting zeros with their exceptional turn rate. Two scenarios.

First is when I have to scramble while they're right on top of the base. I don't have the altitude nor speed so I'm still trying to gain speed and they get right on my tail. And I can't shake them. If I get lucky, some friendlies help me out but in most cases, I'm sitting duck. Is there any tactic to fight in this scenario?

Second is similar but little more to do with formation. First series of missions, I'm flying as wingman rather than leader so I have to fly next to the leader or he doesn't stop yapping on the radio. But in some of these missions, the leader chooses to fly lower than I would like to. So when we engage squadron of zeros there's not enough room below me to start an energy fight.

And even if there's enough room to start boom and zoom, the wing leader starts to nag again that I left his wing. But if I stay with him, zeros get behind me and blast me away. Do I just have to ignore the formation? Or is there way to beat the AI in zeros in turning fight with Spitfires? One thing I have learned is to fight on my own against AI on a campaign mission. I totally ignore the flight leaders whining/scolding. In real life I'd would be court martialed for that but in this sim it's necessary. The best strategy is to look for any situation where the enemy is latched onto the tail of one of your virtual buddies. Then go in behind the ( usually two ) enemy planes and either chase them off or out and out shoot them down. Shooting them down is vastly preferred of course. Fire at the lead plane to scare him but try to acutally shoot down the wingman first. In this way you'll save your buddy and hopefully kill the enemy wingman. But if it takes too long to cripple or kill the wingman, his leader will get behind you in short order. If one or two get on your tail whilst you are doing this, hit TAB, then 7 to call for help and most of the time you get it. But in most cases they can be shaken by hard turning. Only try to outrun them if you're in a much faster plane. Only try to outclimb them if your aircraft has a much better climb. Even then, down low they may have equal climb. Even LA5s and 7s can stay with a 109 at low altitude on climb down low. A spiral climb is good in this case since AI are lousy deflection shooters and will shoot behind you, wasting ammo. If you have had enemy shaken from you by friendlies, take advantage and climb up to get in a good state, no matter what type of plane you're in. Much of this has probably been self-explanatory but take my advice on ignoring the flight leaders, since disobying has no effect in the game, you are not disciplined or lose rank. and it just seems to work out better. Be a lone wolf, it works better in the end. I even play lone wolf at the end of the mission and land when I want, not in squadron order. Call me a rebel!!

mortoma
06-26-2007, 05:26 AM
Oops, forgot something. Another winning strategy is to purposely try and get enemy to shoot at you, especially if you are alone with no help. This helped in the Beafighter situation I described earlier. Enemy AI planes are not very economical with their ammo stores so take advantage of this. You can tell when they run out of ammo since they turn for home. You have them by the nads if that happens. By turning, even in a lousy turner, they will fire behind you since they don't calculate lead very well. When an enemy plane is 'ace' level though, they can hit your wings and such so turn harder if the enemy AI seems to be an ace and just be more careful. Ace level AI will also try to snapshoot you when they fly past, even in a scissors situation so you must anticipate and dodge this. Also ace level will climb up and dive down on you and they are very good at hitting you, so don't play this game with them. Also if they are ace they are nearly perfect at head on pass sharpshooting. You can scarcely win at this since even if you are also a good head on shot and hit them, they will hit you also. In this case you have to hope your plane will be less crippled and this comes out to luck only. If you try to dodge a head on shot many times they will calculate well and hit you after your dodge. So make a dodging manuever that is more evasive and wild than normal and cross your fingers.

corsair0772
06-26-2007, 07:29 AM
When I fight zeros, I usually try to take them head on, they were built for performance, but they lack alot it armor. If you are in a head on slugging match with them, you will usually win. The one thing that you have to be carefull of is if there is more than one, or if they explode you might end up running into them. I will usually dive below them once I take it out, not only do I miss, but now I am picking up speed in order to turn and take on the other ones. If you are behind them the one place that you can take them out is right were the wing meets the body.., this is were the fuel tanks are and even if you spit at them and hit them there they usually burst into flame do to the lack of self sealing fuel tanks. I always do what you said when they are behind me. I will let them fire at me while I am in a hard turn, they run out of ammo real quick. Once they turn for home, I dive a little, gain some speed and persue them. You have to keep your eyes open though, they will usually gang up on you while you are focused on your target. Then you have to either do it all over again and take your chances, or call for help. Have you ever tried this? Any advice to add to what I do?

LStarosta
06-26-2007, 07:37 AM
I just look at them really hard and they disintegrate.

corsair0772
06-26-2007, 09:06 AM
That is one way to do it. If I try that they will probebly get bigger and I end up being shot down. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

taz1004
06-26-2007, 09:16 AM
Thanks for the tips. You guys make it sound so easy. Is there way to adjust AI strength for campaigns? I don't see any option for that in campaign creation.

Also, I've been using unlimited ammo and I'm gonna turn it off from now on but was curious... if I have unlimited ammo, do AI's have unlimited ammo as well?

Ratsack
06-26-2007, 09:22 AM
Cold, 'ard, steel. 'ey don't like it. Get it up 'em!

Ratsack

corsair0772
06-26-2007, 09:30 AM
I am not sure if they are unlimited to. Once you get comfortable doing it, it will become a second nature to you. You cant win them all, and Im sure most of these guys will tell you that. If you turn the unlimited ammo off, you will have between 20-35 seconds of constant firing until you are empty, depending on what you are flying at that time. Be careful with that though, make sure that you are going to hit your target, otherwise you will waste it and then you will be in big trouble.

corsair0772
06-26-2007, 09:36 AM
I forgot to mention that I think there strenth depends on what setting you have the diffuculty on, realistic is all out battle. I sure that you know how to customize it. Doing that might make it a little easier. Hope this helps! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

mortoma
06-26-2007, 10:21 AM
Originally posted by corsair0772:
When I fight zeros, I usually try to take them head on, they were built for performance, but they lack alot it armor. If you are in a head on slugging match with them, you will usually win. The one thing that you have to be carefull of is if there is more than one, or if they explode you might end up running into them. I will usually dive below them once I take it out, not only do I miss, but now I am picking up speed in order to turn and take on the other ones. If you are behind them the one place that you can take them out is right were the wing meets the body.., this is were the fuel tanks are and even if you spit at them and hit them there they usually burst into flame do to the lack of self sealing fuel tanks. I always do what you said when they are behind me. I will let them fire at me while I am in a hard turn, they run out of ammo real quick. Once they turn for home, I dive a little, gain some speed and persue them. You have to keep your eyes open though, they will usually gang up on you while you are focused on your target. Then you have to either do it all over again and take your chances, or call for help. Have you ever tried this? Any advice to add to what I do? If you're a good head on shot then you have a chance but for God's sake don't do this against a Zero while it still has cannon ammo!!! If it's down to MG only, then it might be alright. Their MGs are very light but watch it if you are in an easily damaged type, such as the P-40 or P-39/400!!! Even light MGs will destroy you easily. A Hellcat or Wildcat can withstand Zero MGs. The Spitfire is fair to middling when it comes to taking damage.

corsair0772
06-26-2007, 11:07 AM
It seems to work for me. I am currently running a F4U-1D corsair, its armor can stand up to the zeros MG. Some times they get a good hit on me, but when I do this I am usually weaving back and forth. It really only takes one short burst of the MG while I am at full throttle to break one of them apart. I would never do this in a P-40 or P-39 as it only takes a little bit to bring those down. If I am in a P-40, I will avoid the turning fights do to its lack of power and poor turning capabilaties. You have to find some way to get on there 6 oclock or your done, especially if there are more than one of them. One mission in PF under single missions is Pearl Harbor Defence 2, this mission refers to what taz1004 is talking about. You are already under attact before you even start your plane. I had a real tough time with this one at first. The way that I did it is once I take off, I immediatly raise my gear and set my flaps to combat. I don't go into a steep climb, but I am at full throttle, raise my flaps once I have a some altitude and then start a climbing turn. It usually get me off the ground without being shot down. Then I just get on there 6 and do the best I can to avoid the turn fight. How do you do this mission?